This is not to say I dont recognize it as a major need. But after seeing what last year's class looks like SO FAR and seeing what has happened to teams that chased the dream of a "franchise QB" and watched that player fail setting them back another half decade, we have a chance to side step that mistake. We have a lot of talent in important positions and I think we did the right thing by selling (even if we sold low) on important players like Snacks and Apple. It would be foolish to force-pick a QB who middles or worst case straight busts and we are selling again in 4 or 5 years.
Herbert has all the talent in the world, but he is quite raw. Daniel Jones is quite polished and makes good decisions, but he hasn't produced because he has NOBODY to throw to and his line has looked awful. Will Grier throws the ball deep beautifully and can move, but he doesnt seem to make NFL decisions. None of those guys are guys you should 100% spend a top ten pick on when you have the other needs that we do. You can make a case for Herbert being the exception because of his arm talent and mobility plus the Shurmur QB whisperer angle. But if he doesnt have the head, you lose out on drafting a guy like Ed Oliver or Nick Bosa....or the Tackle from Bama...or, best case, the chance to trade down with someone like Denver or Miami for their first next year plus and draft a much better QB in Tua.
I dont want to hear about wasting another year of Beckham's or Barkley's prime either. Whats worse? Burning one more year or 5 years of their primes? I just think that bypassing all of the talented defenders in this draft to draft a project is silly and will haunt us for years.
Guys like Nick Bosa, Quinnen Williams, Devin White...all look like potential superstars. I'd be happy with trading down to a team that wants a game-changer on their D-Line and either picking Herbert further down (if he's available) or just going with the BPA.
I don't think there will be a blue chip OL. Jonah Williams is extremely polished and very technically sound, but he has sub-optimal arm length and is a bit undersized.
Greg Little has that requisite size, but his technique is terrible and he's extremely inconsistent.
David Edwards is another solid prospect, but his foot speed is a major question mark and feet to an OT is everything.
Oak really scares me. They are a bad football team and tanking on purpose. They are stock piling high picks (3 1's this year, 2 1's next year. They know Carr is not the answer and Gruden wants his own qb. That is Tua. Even if they are not #1 overall next year they will have the fire power to move up. They will prob finish with the worst pick this year and get Bosa and start to build around and take Tua next year.
I am not sold on Fromm. I would love to see more of him and read Sy's eval of him.
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there are any), I’d prefer that unless of course Shurmur deems the available QB as franchise-worthy
I don't think there will be a blue chip OL. Jonah Williams is extremely polished and very technically sound, but he has sub-optimal arm length and is a bit undersized.
Greg Little has that requisite size, but his technique is terrible and he's extremely inconsistent.
David Edwards is another solid prospect, but his foot speed is a major question mark and feet to an OT is everything.
Thanks for the info
Oak really scares me. They are a bad football team and tanking on purpose. They are stock piling high picks (3 1's this year, 2 1's next year. They know Carr is not the answer and Gruden wants his own qb. That is Tua. Even if they are not #1 overall next year they will have the fire power to move up. They will prob finish with the worst pick this year and get Bosa and start to build around and take Tua next year.
I am not sold on Fromm. I would love to see more of him and read Sy's eval of him.
Trevor Lawrence and eventually Justin Fields will put all of them to shame. Those two will be the next big things at QB.
chop there are few guarantees. I think Darnold will be fine and Rosen looks like he will be ok, too. Mayfield is on a team with a shit staff. How about we give these guys more than 8 weeks to develop. Wentz and Goff are doing pretty well.
I'm not even sure that a primo QB is necessary to win the Super Bowl. Makes it easier, yes. The team is more important. The oline, the quality of the WR and the running game. Brady can do more than most, but even Aaron Rodgers needs better players as does Brees. Mahommes has Reid who can make any QB look very good, but has Kelce, Hunt etc...
I have stated on other threads this fall that if we are in the Top 3, then I would think Bosa will be a target. If we are in 6-10, then I would think Jonah is the target (Greedy will also be in consideration). If we are sitting at 1 and don't want Bosa or a QB, then a trade down will garner a blue chip player and a #1 next year.
it will all work out. What is meant to be is meant to be.
I have stated on other threads this fall that if we are in the Top 3, then I would think Bosa will be a target. If we are in 6-10, then I would think Jonah is the target (Greedy will also be in consideration). If we are sitting at 1 and don't want Bosa or a QB, then a trade down will garner a blue chip player and a #1 next year.
I don't pay attention to INTERIOR Linemen
I have stated on other threads this fall that if we are in the Top 3, then I would think Bosa will be a target. If we are in 6-10, then I would think Jonah is the target (Greedy will also be in consideration). If we are sitting at 1 and don't want Bosa or a QB, then a trade down will garner a blue chip player and a #1 next year.
I think you're being too optimistic on Jonah. Arm length may not matter as much to you, but Jonah is undersized for his position and he can easily be taken advantaged of by bigger guys like Myles Garrett and Joey Bosa. We kind of saw this with Pugh. Size and strength aren't everything, but they do matter.
I've seen him listed from a first rounder down to a third rounder. If he were available in the second or third round it would be a great fortune...
In the meantime, we really need to get Lauletta into live action to see if he's got anything worth keeping and molding.
KC- Mahomes
LAR- Goff
PHI- Wentz
DAL- Prescott (maybe)
WSH/MIN- Cousins
BUF- Allen
ARI- Rosen
SF- Garappolo
This is just off the top of my head. The idea that the Giants & fans need to suffer through another 3 win season for Tua or anyone similar is not the approach. Losing breeds losing. We’ve lost enough.
If the Giants don’t like any of the 2019 QB’s, DG should be manipulating the draft & building draft capital. Acquiring as many draft capital as possible so we can strike in 2020 if need be. Unfortunately for us, I’m not sure DG picks up the phone when we are on the clock.
I've seen him listed from a first rounder down to a third rounder. If he were available in the second or third round it would be a great fortune...
In the meantime, we really need to get Lauletta into live action to see if he's got anything worth keeping and molding.
Too bad the Giants don't have a 3rd rounder.
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so I'd love to see him in wear a Giants helmet.
I've seen him listed from a first rounder down to a third rounder. If he were available in the second or third round it would be a great fortune...
In the meantime, we really need to get Lauletta into live action to see if he's got anything worth keeping and molding.
Too bad the Giants don't have a 3rd rounder.
There is absolutely no reason DG should not be able to acquire a 3rd rounder between now & April 2019.
Scary days.
I'll be happy either way we go.
2020 is going to have some good ones, and I would love to see a trade back to acquire some picks in 2020, so we could move up to get our guy.
It would just mean we would suck for another 2 seasons though, and we would be approaching a decade of sucking if that's the case.
I will say though that Grier definitely impressed me on Sat.
Scary days.
It’s scary if we give someone like Sam Bradford $20M plus out of desperation.
Imo, it is not scary if we move on from Eli & start Lauletta making next to nothing. Desperation is when things get scary.
and Lauletta will get hurt.
I will say though that Grier definitely impressed me on Sat.
That throw Grier made on that final TD - before his two point conversion run - was one of the great throws of the year.
Very few rookie QBs come in and play better than some of the journeymen who will be available.
If there is no QB worth taking, don't take one. That's the worst thing you can do as a franchise. There are other ways to address the position.
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As we watch this upcoming quarterback class we'll only see more warts. The question is whether the echo chamber gets loud enough to the point where we force a premium pick on a guy that doesn't merit it. If we do we risk taking the next Gabbert, if we don't we're entering 2019 with...?
Scary days.
It’s scary if we give someone like Sam Bradford $20M plus out of desperation.
Imo, it is not scary if we move on from Eli & start Lauletta making next to nothing. Desperation is when things get scary.
That's the right move, but I don't trust this front office to be that smart.
Maybe they like but don't love one of these middling QBs (Finley, Grier, Fromm, Lock, etc.) they can likely get most of them when picking in rd 2...
If there is a QB in 2019 that has the upside to be a star that is there for you, you take him. Don't fuck around. If the prospects aren't good enough then yeah you do something else. But don't plan your strategy around getting Tua in 2020 because it is us against the field and those are poor odds and you could wind up waiting another 2 years before finding a QB and we will have lost half a decade.
Just for the record I think the Giants made an epic mistake in 2018. I would have taken Rosen or Darnold.
-You can’t force a pick
-The player needs to be able to wear a gold jacket
-If you need to talk yourself into the player, don’t draft him
-You can’t force a pick
-The player needs to be able to wear a gold jacket
-If you need to talk yourself into the player, don’t draft him
DG was always full of shit. A hall of fame RB is worth less than a solid star 15 year pro QB. He refused to consider that notion. In this league if you don't haev a QB you have nothing.
Nope, that's not using the draft optimally. I'd have no issue going edge rusher or left tackle if he's the better player than the QB.
Yes, I heard there was a sale at Caldor's on QBs this week and next..
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Take the best QB in the draft and do not look back.
Nope, that's not using the draft optimally. I'd have no issue going edge rusher or left tackle if he's the better player than the QB.
Wrong. The value of a good QB dwarves the value of an elite player at another position. If you take an edge rusher over a QB he doesn't need to be a better player than the QB, rather his value needs to be greater than the QBs value. Because if there is a Matt Ryan there (a very good but not all-time great QB) he has more value than the best edge rusher you are going to find.
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In comment 14165833 Thegratefulhead said:
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Take the best QB in the draft and do not look back.
Nope, that's not using the draft optimally. I'd have no issue going edge rusher or left tackle if he's the better player than the QB.
Wrong. The value of a good QB dwarves the value of an elite player at another position. If you take an edge rusher over a QB he doesn't need to be a better player than the QB, rather his value needs to be greater than the QBs value. Because if there is a Matt Ryan there (a very good but not all-time great QB) he has more value than the best edge rusher you are going to find.
Greater value is how I would gauge better player, the draft is about value, potential, the long play.
Ummmm, no? Try again?
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In comment 14165858 JonC said:
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In comment 14165833 Thegratefulhead said:
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Take the best QB in the draft and do not look back.
Nope, that's not using the draft optimally. I'd have no issue going edge rusher or left tackle if he's the better player than the QB.
Wrong. The value of a good QB dwarves the value of an elite player at another position. If you take an edge rusher over a QB he doesn't need to be a better player than the QB, rather his value needs to be greater than the QBs value. Because if there is a Matt Ryan there (a very good but not all-time great QB) he has more value than the best edge rusher you are going to find.
Greater value is how I would gauge better player, the draft is about value, potential, the long play.
Well that seems not to be how DG sees it. He thinks he needs to get a Hall of Famer touched by God player value be damned. I always go back to the Ryan/CJ draft. In the first few years after that draft CJ was the obvious better player. Now CJ is out of the league and Ryan is the clear winner between the two. I think there is a strong chance 2018 will shake out the same way. Darnold and Rosen may be hitting their prime when SB starts to decline. I am very worried about this. Hopefully the Giants find a QB soon because we all know that it can take years.
Me, I would be willing to wait a game or two more
I feel like some of you have been watching the sport long enough to know that rookie QBs can and do play like rookies.
Me, I would be willing to wait a game or two more
No I didnt say that either. I am saying that I dont think that any of the QBs this year were better picks than Barkley FOR THE GIANTS, and that its not loking like any of the top QB prospects THIS year stand out from the truly great prospects that will be in the top 3-5 of this year's draft.
Your reading comprehension sucks. Ive noticed it in some of your other posts.
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In comment 14165862 FranchiseQB said:
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In comment 14165858 JonC said:
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In comment 14165833 Thegratefulhead said:
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Take the best QB in the draft and do not look back.
Nope, that's not using the draft optimally. I'd have no issue going edge rusher or left tackle if he's the better player than the QB.
Wrong. The value of a good QB dwarves the value of an elite player at another position. If you take an edge rusher over a QB he doesn't need to be a better player than the QB, rather his value needs to be greater than the QBs value. Because if there is a Matt Ryan there (a very good but not all-time great QB) he has more value than the best edge rusher you are going to find.
Greater value is how I would gauge better player, the draft is about value, potential, the long play.
Well that seems not to be how DG sees it. He thinks he needs to get a Hall of Famer touched by God player value be damned. I always go back to the Ryan/CJ draft. In the first few years after that draft CJ was the obvious better player. Now CJ is out of the league and Ryan is the clear winner between the two. I think there is a strong chance 2018 will shake out the same way. Darnold and Rosen may be hitting their prime when SB starts to decline. I am very worried about this. Hopefully the Giants find a QB soon because we all know that it can take years.
Actually, it seems DG does see it that way because he picked the #1 prospect on his board, position be damned.
I get the unrest and the worry, and even really liked Darnold for NYG to takeover for Eli. But, we're going to have to wait it out ... if DG picked believing Eli had a few years left in the tank, I agree we've got a big problem. But, I do think they'll find a way to fix it.
He's growing on me, too.
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He's growing on me, too.
Bit of odd timing considering he hasn't played that well the last few weeks, but yeah, talent has never been the issue.