if this was discussed and I missed it, apologies...
but I was struck watching SNF last night as they were making a big deal about the match-up of 2 elite QB's like Brady & Rodgers... they discussed and showed graphics about great/potential HOF QB match-ups.
they obviously showed Brady & Rodgers, and extended it to Peyton and Brees... and then extended to Big Ben... but no Eli.
I am on record that I think Eli is worthy of the HOF and likely to make it, but it reminded me that the outside world really thinks much less of our QB than we do. and that these past few years are really hurting his legacy.
He also has limited playoff appearances, and outside of the 2 super bowl runs, has not won a single other playoff game.
Eli will be in the HOF, probably not first ballot, but he deserves it with everything he's accomplished, and the way he carries himself.
Phil Simms is not in the Hall, Eli is far from a lock
On a note -the last playoff game Eli played - he played well - too bad his WR's couldn't catch a cold that game.
....No brainer, 1st Ballot HOFer
Eli has the trophies AND the stats to back him up
Phil Simms is not in the Hall, Eli is far from a lock
In your opinion, not mine. Eli is a true professional. Never criticizes the press, nor his teammates......guaranteed some writers will look at that, especially playing in NY which is super tough.
Phil Simms? HOF? Simms was my fav Giant before Eli. Simms was hurt A TON, didn't QB that second SB team to victory in Tampa, and consequently his stats suffered from all the injuries.
How exactly is he a HOF'er? LOL
....No brainer, 1st Ballot HOFer
Eli has the trophies AND the stats to back him up
Yeah, hes a lock as I see it. The only question I have is WHEN.
Ben and Eli are in the same class. For features like that you have to consider the current/recent state of affairs. The Steelers are still good and have a good offense. They're a draw. Nobody is excited about watching the giants, not even most giants fans.
These past six years have done enormous damage to Eli's legacy.
IDK, '14 and '15 he put up very good stats, and in '16 made the playoffs.
The last two years have been real tough......but a ton of great players have horrid endings........that's usually forgotten.
For the record I think he should be in.
You think Ben makes it? LOL.....he's certainly a HOFer, and more certain than Eli (although both make it).
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but ELI is on his last legs unless he puts together another big season before retirement. Thats not looking very good now. But you never know, will be rooting for him.
You think Ben makes it? LOL.....he's certainly a HOFer, and more certain than Eli (although both make it).
Right. It's preposterous to suggest Roeth is on the same borderline as Eli. Ben has had a more prolific career. He's a great QB.
The two Super Bowls just means he's closer to Jim Plunkett than he does, say, a Roger Staubach.
One is in the HOF and deservedly so, and one is not.
I think it's fair to say that most non-Giants fans view Eli as a middle of the pack QB who had two great SB runs in him.
I have to agree with this. Especially since he'll probably finish below .500 for his career. The saver may be all his other accomplishments in yards and TD's etc etc along with the 2 Super Bowl wins but I wouldn't bet on it.
The two Super Bowls just means he's closer to Jim Plunkett than he does, say, a Roger Staubach.
One is in the HOF and deservedly so, and one is not.
Not sure how you can compare him to Jim Plunkett.
Here's where clarity matters - beyond saying "oh, he has two Super Bowls."
Plunkett was a #1 pick who failed miserably in New England. Then he went to the Raiders as a backup.
By circumstance, he got to start and yes did QB the Raiders to two SBs which was a great accomplishment. But then he hardly played after that.
But his career, as far as longevity, doesn't measure up.
Eli has doubled him in nearly every critical stat. And yes, that's because he's played longer. And longevity, especially at the QB position, is something that needs to be considered.
So I don't know how you can compare Plunkett to EManning, other than the two trophies............
I think it's fair to say that most non-Giants fans view Eli as a middle of the pack QB who had two great SB runs in him.
I certainly get it. And Eli definitely gets some raw treatment because he's Peyton's little brother. He's a very easy target.
He's played 15 years, won two SB MVPs, and is among the top 10 when he retires in TDs and passing yards.
I mean, he's not the best of all time LOL, but I'd say that deserves to be in the HOF - at least the way it's defined today and guys who get in.
He'll eclipse Manning in passing yards this year but the big difference is he's 140-65-1 as a starter while Eli is 112-110.
He has nearly the same career passing numbers and TDs (Big Ben 345, Eli 347) as Eli despite playing an entire season's worth fewer games than Eli (16).
And oh yeah, Eli has thrown FIFTY-THREE more interceptions than Roethlisberger and 23 more fumbles. Even giving Roethlisberger another 16 INTs, Eli would still have thrown 37 more INTs than Big Ben.
When looking at their careers, they both have won two Super Bowls and that's where the similarities end. Eli has been more durable and I'd never take away or diminish his amazing iron man streak, but Big Ben has been by far the superior player throughout his career and will be in the Hall of Fame while Eli's chances are somewhat suspect.
He'll eclipse Manning in passing yards this year but the big difference is he's 140-65-1 as a starter while Eli is 112-110.
He has nearly the same career passing numbers and TDs (Big Ben 345, Eli 347) as Eli despite playing an entire season's worth fewer games than Eli (16).
And oh yeah, Eli has thrown FIFTY-THREE more interceptions than Roethlisberger and 23 more fumbles. Even giving Roethlisberger another 16 INTs, Eli would still have thrown 37 more INTs than Big Ben.
When looking at their careers, they both have won two Super Bowls and that's where the similarities end. Eli has been more durable and I'd never take away or diminish his amazing iron man streak, but Big Ben has been by far the superior player throughout his career and will be in the Hall of Fame while Eli's chances are somewhat suspect.
Not that this really matters, but the first SB that Ben won, I could have played QB and won the game. He was a ZERO factor (although played brilliantly in the playoffs up to that if I remember correctly).
In fact, many will tell you Seattle was cheated out of that win.
He played great in the second SB, esp on the final drive.
Lost his third.
Ben is the better QB....I don't think that's even debatable. But that doesn't exclude Eli from the conversation...............
I think it's fair to say that most non-Giants fans view Eli as a middle of the pack QB who had two great SB runs in him.
the other thing is it just feels like when we have a nationally televised game, it is a bad one. Not only for the team but also for Eli.
The true numbers may say otherwise and I was not talking about playoffs. It just feels like when the entire country gets to watch a Giants game, they see a shit show too often. A reflection on Eli unfortunately.
I've been saying that for years on these Eli HOF threads - the people that were certain he would make it easily were fooling themselves. They refused to accept how most of the league has always viewed the guy.
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I don't think he's getting in, and I think a strong case can be made that he isn't deserving. He needs another ring while playing good football and it's unlikely he'll get one.
The two Super Bowls just means he's closer to Jim Plunkett than he does, say, a Roger Staubach.
One is in the HOF and deservedly so, and one is not.
Not sure how you can compare him to Jim Plunkett.
Here's where clarity matters - beyond saying "oh, he has two Super Bowls."
Plunkett was a #1 pick who failed miserably in New England. Then he went to the Raiders as a backup.
By circumstance, he got to start and yes did QB the Raiders to two SBs which was a great accomplishment. But then he hardly played after that.
But his career, as far as longevity, doesn't measure up.
Eli has doubled him in nearly every critical stat. And yes, that's because he's played longer. And longevity, especially at the QB position, is something that needs to be considered.
So I don't know how you can compare Plunkett to EManning, other than the two trophies............
You can't just disregard the respective era that these players are playing in. This is the friendliest era in football history for passing stats.
Plunkett was around a .500 QB in a career where he won two Super Bowls. Eli is around a .500 QB in a career where he won two Super Bowls. I'm not saying they are the same QB, I'm saying Eli's HOF worthiness is closer to Plunkett's who is not in the Hall than it is to someone like Staubach who is in the Hall (in reference to multiple Super Bowl winners).
I'm a Giants fan, I'm not a deluded homer into thinking Eli has been one of the game's greatest players. I honestly think Eli's best case for the Hall is defeating the undefeated Patriots in XLII. That game is so historic and iconic that it remains, in my opinion, the greatest Super Bowl of all time and the greatest upset of all time, with apologies to Namath and the Jets.
However, that win was a team win, and even though Eli deserves credit, come on...the defense was what really gave the Giants a chance to win that game. On the balance, I think Eli is just outside the HOF. He has a chance, but at no point in his career did I think, "this guy is one of the best two or three quarterbacks playing in the NFL." And I think for HOF entry you should be one of the best at your position at some point in your career.
I think it's fair to say that most non-Giants fans view Eli as a middle of the pack QB who had two great SB runs in him.
This. The rest of the league sees Eli as somewhere between Jim Plunkett, Trent Dilfer, and Rex Grossman.
His having a losing record when he retires will be a huge blow too.
He's not sniffing the Hall of Fame sadly.
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In comment 14165948 allstarjim said:
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I don't think he's getting in, and I think a strong case can be made that he isn't deserving. He needs another ring while playing good football and it's unlikely he'll get one.
The two Super Bowls just means he's closer to Jim Plunkett than he does, say, a Roger Staubach.
One is in the HOF and deservedly so, and one is not.
Not sure how you can compare him to Jim Plunkett.
Here's where clarity matters - beyond saying "oh, he has two Super Bowls."
Plunkett was a #1 pick who failed miserably in New England. Then he went to the Raiders as a backup.
By circumstance, he got to start and yes did QB the Raiders to two SBs which was a great accomplishment. But then he hardly played after that.
But his career, as far as longevity, doesn't measure up.
Eli has doubled him in nearly every critical stat. And yes, that's because he's played longer. And longevity, especially at the QB position, is something that needs to be considered.
So I don't know how you can compare Plunkett to EManning, other than the two trophies............
You can't just disregard the respective era that these players are playing in. This is the friendliest era in football history for passing stats.
Plunkett was around a .500 QB in a career where he won two Super Bowls. Eli is around a .500 QB in a career where he won two Super Bowls. I'm not saying they are the same QB, I'm saying Eli's HOF worthiness is closer to Plunkett's who is not in the Hall than it is to someone like Staubach who is in the Hall (in reference to multiple Super Bowl winners).
I'm a Giants fan, I'm not a deluded homer into thinking Eli has been one of the game's greatest players. I honestly think Eli's best case for the Hall is defeating the undefeated Patriots in XLII. That game is so historic and iconic that it remains, in my opinion, the greatest Super Bowl of all time and the greatest upset of all time, with apologies to Namath and the Jets.
However, that win was a team win, and even though Eli deserves credit, come on...the defense was what really gave the Giants a chance to win that game. On the balance, I think Eli is just outside the HOF. He has a chance, but at no point in his career did I think, "this guy is one of the best two or three quarterbacks playing in the NFL." And I think for HOF entry you should be one of the best at your position at some point in your career.
Roethlisberger was never one of the best 2-3 QBs playing but he'll end up in the Hall of Fame.
We all watch him more than others so there is some basis to the line that the stats don't tell the whole story. But do many people believe that Giants fans can view Eli more objectively than everyone else?
I love Eli, but I don't think he is going into the Hall of Fame. I'd love to see it and hope he does, but the last few years he's played still count in the body of work.
After the 2011 season, you would think he would be a lock......
But these last 7 years have tarnished what he accomplished in '07 and '11....
He is top 10 of a lot of categories by virtue of the many games he has played......
2011 was his best year: 29 tds, 16 int, 4933 yards, 61%.....not the greatest of numbers, but clutch in the 4th quarter....He never had that one stat year, where he stood out....While 2015 was his best stat year, it pales in comparison to other QB's of his era....
Just 2 seasons out of 15 where his team won a playoff game?
He still might get in, but he is nowhere close to a first ballot lock...
Not that this really matters, but the first SB that Ben won, I could have played QB and won the game. He was a ZERO factor (although played brilliantly in the playoffs up to that if I remember correctly).
In fact, many will tell you Seattle was cheated out of that win.
He played great in the second SB, esp on the final drive.
Lost his third.
Ben is the better QB....I don't think that's even debatable. But that doesn't exclude Eli from the conversation...............
Go look at that first SB run by Pittsburgh and BR. BR was terrific in the wins over Cincinnati and at Denver.
True - he was listless in the SB.
And he was magnificent when the Steelers beat Cardinals in 2009 on the last second throw to Holmes.
So, it will depend on those voters who have an axe to grind with that POS.
Just sayin
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