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Zone Read to Help the Run Game?

tmanic21 : 11/6/2018 9:13 am
Excerpt below from my piece on how the Zone Read can help alleviate SOME of the Giants running issues. For this thread, just pointing out the below statistics, and wondering if there are other solutions or if people see things differently. I think if they continue without a major schematic change and do not improve, it means that Hal Hunter is out at the end of this year (and maybe more change besides that). Cheers

" There are many questions swirling around the New York Giants. Chief among them are the issues surrounding the run game. The Giants are averaging only 77.9 rushing yards per game and running the ball only 30.04% of the time, which is dead last in the league (teamrankings.com). Adding to the aggregate statistics, the Giants have a DVOA of only -13.1% when running the ball (ranks 21st, Football Outsiders). Suffice it to say the rush attack is not where it needs to be and not being utilized to its full potential, especially with Saquon Barkley in the backfield. An under the radar solution may help alleviate some of the issues, but first, let’s get into the data.
Some Numbers

Many fans simply wish for more attempts, under the old school football maxim that a team must “commit to establishing the run.” For those who may still like this narrative, Football Outsiders published a very good study many years ago, details here (https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2003/establishment-clause), with the punchline being no direct relationship in the data between attempts and a running play’s success. Leaving the optimal run/pass ratio debate to the side of this piece, the common ground is that when the Giants do run the ball they need to be way more effective and efficient.

The first “blame” goes immediately to the offensive line. Of the five starters, only two (Nate Solder, and Will Hernandez) remain from preseason camp. Over at Football Outsiders, the Giants’ line ranks dead last in Adjusted Line Yards, while they are first in Open Field Rankings. What this means is Big Blue’s line does the least for Saquon Barkley in the run game, yet he makes the most of it of any back in the league. This is apparent to anyone who has watched the games this year; when Barkley makes enough people miss he can chunk off big pieces of yardage. The Giants need to find ways schematically to make up for this weakness, now or next season. This line, like any other in the league, will never be perfect..."
Full Piece - ( New Window )
"This line, like any other in the league, will never be perfect..."  
BillT : 11/6/2018 9:26 am : link
No. This line, like no other in the league, will never be anything but the worst line in the league..."
I’d like them to run more  
eli4life : 11/6/2018 9:34 am : link
Not that I’d expect any more success with this line but for every play they run the ball it’s one less time Eli get clobbered. At this point I’d just like to see him be able to play with his grandkids
Running Game  
AndyB : 11/6/2018 9:56 am : link
Of course the Giants have run the ball only 30% of the time. They're constantly playing from behind. I believe they've spent more time trailing than any other team this season.

Run better. Block better. Communicate better. Practice better. Work harder. That applies not only to the offensive line, but to the tight ends, the fullback, and the wide receivers stalk blocking downfield.

That's how you improve your running game.

Schemes have nothing to do with it.

All of these teams are running the same plays, over and over. There's no magic to this stuff.
How about some "wildcat"  
gmenatlarge : 11/6/2018 10:42 am : link
using our best players Beckham or Barkley. Really at this point anything should be on the table especially in the red zone. Let's face it, it couldn't hurt...
45% of Giants runs this year  
PaulBlakeTSU : 11/6/2018 10:57 am : link
go for 1 yard or less. Over 28% go for no gain or negative yards, and over 14% go for negative yards.

And Barkley doesn't face a high percentage of 8 men in the box. It's against teams sitting guys back in coverage mostly.

And it says nothing of the abysmal pass protection. Hal Hunter is doing as bad a job (or is getting as bad results from his group) than perhaps I have ever seen from a Giants coach.
I think you answered your own question, Nick.  
Section331 : 11/6/2018 11:04 am : link
The zone read is tough to execute when you don't have a QB that defenses need to shadow. Shurmer ran a fair amount of zone read in Minny with Keenum. I'm more interested in your thoughts on adding more zone blocking schemes?
I'm really shocked  
JFIB : 11/6/2018 12:18 pm : link
That Shurmer has done nothing at all creative to try to open up this offense some.
Do Less...don't add More  
Rafflee : 11/6/2018 12:38 pm : link
This team needs to find a few things they can do...and it needs to execute based on that. The biggest concern is the simple execution of Assignments within the present game plan.

The Turnstiles and Blow Byes won't go away with additions to the scheme---and I would not criticize the base package before I see them execute assignments on a consistent basis.

Before I change or Add, I want to see guys Winning OR Losing their actual assignments
Wait. You're proposing that Eli  
B in ALB : 11/6/2018 12:44 pm : link
runs a zone read package? Am I understanding that correctly?
Primarily it's lack  
Doomster : 11/6/2018 1:15 pm : link
of talent, and then questionable coaching, and lack of playing time together....

Doesn't make any difference what the scheme is if you don't have all three...
RE: Wait. You're proposing that Eli  
tmanic21 : 11/6/2018 2:49 pm : link
In comment 14166973 B in ALB said:
Quote:
runs a zone read package? Am I understanding that correctly?


No, meaning Tanney, Lauletta or Free Agent A. Maybe I should have been more clear, but I didnt want to present a "dump Manning to improve the run game" SEO-click bait article. This is more to show what few options they have to alleviate the pressure to IZ, and if they want to continue they need to insert a mobile QB.
RE: I think you answered your own question, Nick.  
tmanic21 : 11/6/2018 2:57 pm : link
In comment 14166824 Section331 said:
Quote:
The zone read is tough to execute when you don't have a QB that defenses need to shadow. Shurmer ran a fair amount of zone read in Minny with Keenum. I'm more interested in your thoughts on adding more zone blocking schemes?


I would say Im surprised at the level of zone blocking schemes that they do run, based on their commentary towards being more of a gap scheme team from the preseason. So for example last game Barkley ran it 13x, of which 10 where Zone Blocking (mostly IZ weak/open, but a lot of Midzone).

This is not that far off the seasonal numbers although I dont have that right of me. This is partially why I think the versatility of RG Brown is so important (comes from a much heavier zone team in the Rams) vs. guys like Omameh whos balance issues/taking tough angles when climbing get exploited by defenders attacking zone blocking. Right now Inside Zone is a foundational part of their rush attack, with power as a really 3rd or 4th consideration.
Lauletta would probably do very well ...  
Manny in CA : 11/6/2018 9:28 pm : link

In a Zone Read, because he can run (unlike Eli). This scheme puts a lot of pressure on the defense in the Red Zone.

Beyond the 20, Eli is still better.

What I'm saying - platoon QBs according to field position.
What if  
Doomster : 11/7/2018 8:08 am : link
we don't get to the 20 with KL?
That was excellent, thanks  
Eli Wilson : 11/7/2018 9:10 am : link
If the Saints can sub in a QB to run these types of plays, there is no reason the Giants can't do the same.
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