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Would Mara/Gettleman consider Josh McDaniels?

ryanmkeane : 11/6/2018 11:31 am
Let's just say for this argument that Gettleman isn't going anywhere. Regardless of what you think on that topic, I think it's clear that Gettleman will at the very least, get another draft and free agency period to rebuild/retool the roster he was handed.

Outside of the QB situation, which really won't get settled until after this year, my main concern with the team right now is Shurmur. The guy has shown nothing so far. I'm not saying it's all on him, but there just seems to be no creativity, not a ton of energy, and an overall lack of clock and game management in key moments that really just should not happen. The team sucks, I get it. But nothing about him seems great HC to me. Nothing.

Which brings me to the main question...if McDaniels makes himself available again, with Eli being perhaps gone and the ability to draft a new QB from the get go, I think the NYG job would be very attractive to McDaniels, and I think Mara should maybe think about making the move. What are everyone's feelings about that?
Ideally Gettleman should not consider Mara in his  
NYRiese : 11/6/2018 11:35 am : link
evaluations.
I don't know - the stunt he pulled with the Colts gives pause  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 11:36 am : link
On the flip side, Belichick was happy to take him back and he is once again doing an incredible job as their OC.

One other thing - I don't think the Giants' job is especially attractive. From the outside this is a team that doesn't look like it knows which way is up.

If the Jets fire Bowles, that's the better job. At least you have the QB to work with.
I can't see them firing Shurmur after one season, though  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/6/2018 11:39 am : link
he's been a complete letdown IMO.
Do I already want the QB to work with?  
Chris684 : 11/6/2018 11:39 am : link
or do I want to pick my own QB?

I think it's a reasonable question to ask. That's where Gruden is right now and indications are he's opting for the latter.
I don't think so...  
Dan in the Springs : 11/6/2018 11:40 am : link
One of the things that Mara seems to have commented on repeatedly is how Shurmur is the "adult in the room". He doesn't like losing, but he wants some professional behaviors at the very least.

Josh doesn't inspire professional behavior. In fact, his behavior is exactly the kind of risk that I don't see Mara taking.

RE: I can't see them firing Shurmur after one season, though  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 11:41 am : link
In comment 14166867 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
he's been a complete letdown IMO.


They should fire Shurmur today, let alone after the full season.
Shurmer  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/6/2018 11:46 am : link
I thought it was a good hire at the time with his background working with Andy Reid and even Chip Kelly and Norv Turner. He also was on the staff with Nick Saban at Michigan State. Where is this system adaptability?

As the season has gone along I get the impression he is a little too soft and I have not seen many new wrinkles to create more positive outcomes with the talent he has even if deficient. You wonder with his first stint in Cleveland and with how the season has transpired if he is losing a little credibility with the players. The press has not really gone after him too hard yet. Heck, the reporters were starting on TC with "sources of discord" in his first year. NY is a brutal place to coach and not for everyone.

I am less concerned with him being an adult and am more interested in a coach who is showing a team improving, lighting someone up on the sideline and establishing a standard. A good coach has to be able to stop a losing streak imo.
Didn't McDaniels pull that whole stunt in Indy because he was  
jcn56 : 11/6/2018 11:49 am : link
basically promised the Pats job when BB hangs them up?

Why would he give up on seemingly guaranteed success there and an eventual job? To join this shitshow?

I'm starting to wonder if maybe Gettleman and Shurmur were just the best we could do.
RE: Didn't McDaniels pull that whole stunt in Indy because he was  
TyreeHelmet : 11/6/2018 11:51 am : link
In comment 14166890 jcn56 said:
Quote:
basically promised the Pats job when BB hangs them up?

Why would he give up on seemingly guaranteed success there and an eventual job? To join this shitshow?

I'm starting to wonder if maybe Gettleman and Shurmur were just the best we could do.


I think theirs a lot of truth to this. I don't think coaches were lining up for this job. There are a lot of issues with this team that won't be solved quickly.
Try and remember or look up what a job parcels did in his first season  
plato : 11/6/2018 11:58 am : link
As Giants head coach. He was terrible from not starting Simms to play calling etc. his head was almost on the block. But Young gave him more time, although he was unsure and checked elsewhere which infuriated Parcells laying the foundation for the breakdown that was to come after Super Bowl #2.

Shurmur deserves a second year, needs to straighten out qb, and improve athleticism of team
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/6/2018 11:59 am : link
I don't know if the Pats are 'guaranteed success' after BB retires. TB is 41. Sooner or later, they'll come back to earth.
RE: ...  
jcn56 : 11/6/2018 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14166902 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I don't know if the Pats are 'guaranteed success' after BB retires. TB is 41. Sooner or later, they'll come back to earth.


Not after, before he retires. McDaniels can basically sit there until either BB or TB retire and he's got as good a chance at success as anyone in the NFL. There's really no impetus for him to leave, unless something extremely appealing were to come up.
If we're picking a new QB  
widmerseyebrow : 11/6/2018 12:04 pm : link
I would really hope we change head coaches as well. IMO Shurmur's offense, like all west coast offenses not lead by Aaron Rodgers, is not particularly hard to stop when squared off against deep playoff defenses. They put up pretty stats in the regular season and make QBs seem better than they are, but the smoke and mirrors only gets you so far.
Some people just don't learn  
ZogZerg : 11/6/2018 12:06 pm : link
oh well.
There is slightly more to the story  
pjcas18 : 11/6/2018 12:07 pm : link
than that wrt McDaniels and Indy from what I've been told (from believable but no clue how credible sources) and it involves Malcolm Butler, but jcn is pretty much right.
RE: RE: ...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/6/2018 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14166907 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14166902 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


I don't know if the Pats are 'guaranteed success' after BB retires. TB is 41. Sooner or later, they'll come back to earth.



Not after, before he retires. McDaniels can basically sit there until either BB or TB retire and he's got as good a chance at success as anyone in the NFL. There's really no impetus for him to leave, unless something extremely appealing were to come up.


Agreed.
How about  
SHO'NUFF : 11/6/2018 12:30 pm : link
Eric Mangini?
Keep Shurmur  
Chip : 11/6/2018 12:38 pm : link
What is holding this team back is the OL and if you keep firing Head Coaches every year and forcing the players to learn a new system every year we will turn into the Cleveland Browns. This team is still playing hard and that is a testament to the coach.
RE: Keep Shurmur  
Sean : 11/6/2018 12:39 pm : link
In comment 14166960 Chip said:
Quote:
What is holding this team back is the OL and if you keep firing Head Coaches every year and forcing the players to learn a new system every year we will turn into the Cleveland Browns. This team is still playing hard and that is a testament to the coach.


If this team doesn’t exceed 3 wins, I think he’s out.
I don't understand this thinking:  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 12:50 pm : link
In comment 14166900 plato said:
Quote:
Shurmur deserves a second year, needs to straighten out qb, and improve athleticism of team


Why? What has he done to show he deserves the benefit of the doubt?

The team is 1-7, and his career record as a head coach is 11-30. What are we expecting will happen differently? Why are we expecting it?

I'd love to know why he deserves a second year. Actually I'd love to know why he deserves to coach them this week.
Yes!  
allstarjim : 11/6/2018 12:51 pm : link
Let's become the Browns!
Unless There is a Slam Dunk HC Candidate Available...  
Jim in Tampa : 11/6/2018 12:51 pm : link
Like Belichick or Saban, then the Giants should keep Shurmur for at least another year.

If you're a current assistant coach looking for an NFL HC opportunity... Why would you go to a team like the Giants if they just fired their head coaches in back-to-back years?
RE: Yes!  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 12:55 pm : link
In comment 14166996 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Let's become the Browns!


Isn't that what we've already become? We've sucked for years and as a solution to that we hired one of their ex-coaches, despite the fact he had a 10-23 record as a head coach (and one of those wins came as an interim guy in Philly).

It was an awful, mystifying hire.
RE: I don't understand this thinking:  
allstarjim : 11/6/2018 12:55 pm : link
In comment 14166990 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14166900 plato said:


Quote:


Shurmur deserves a second year, needs to straighten out qb, and improve athleticism of team



Why? What has he done to show he deserves the benefit of the doubt?

The team is 1-7, and his career record as a head coach is 11-30. What are we expecting will happen differently? Why are we expecting it?

I'd love to know why he deserves a second year. Actually I'd love to know why he deserves to coach them this week.


He was hired to a 3-13 team, a team that is in transition, in which the GM is in a rebuild project. You give him 3 years.

This team wasn't going to win this year. Never. I don't even think Gettleman believed that they would win, but what are they going to say? Oh yeah, Eli sucks now but we can't get rid of him this year so we are going to suffer with another year of losing? No. They are going to say, "he's our guy and we believe we can win with him."

BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE! He got hired, you don't fire a guy after 1 season unless you really want to mismanage your team. Shurmur has a good offense, an offense that made Keenum a top 10 passer. You want him to work with your next QB, and this requires patience. You haven't seen anything from him yet. So freaking what? Who tf are you, anyway? It's a marathon not a sprint and some people who think overnight results were going to happen are not anyone who should be in charge of a football team.
Why would  
MookGiants : 11/6/2018 12:58 pm : link
McDaniels want to work with a clown like DG?
We all know it's a marathon  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 12:58 pm : link
We're about to conclude year 6 of this shitty, awful marathon.

And if you think the Giants are losing this year simply because of a lack of talent, you're wrong. This team has been coached ineptly in these first 8 games. Absolutely ineptly.
McDaniels? Mangini??  
Greg from LI : 11/6/2018 1:00 pm : link
Some of you never learn.
Barring an uprising similar to last  
joeinpa : 11/6/2018 1:02 pm : link
Season, I see no scenerio where Shurmur is released as the 1 season, nor should he be.

He inherited a 3-13 team, it a possible the process of rebuilding begins with a big step backwards.

Unless you blame him for an offensive line that gets beat at the point of attack, how is this on him. Play calling is always a fans go to move when a team falters.

It s about execution and good players. How creative were Lombardi s Packers or Parcells ' Giants.
I am not sold on McDaniels....  
Doomster : 11/6/2018 1:05 pm : link
He is just part of BB's system....
GT is right in that the coaching has been inept.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/6/2018 1:07 pm : link
I didn't think he'd could be worse than Slick, but he hasn't been much of an improvement.
McAdoo was significantly better than Shurmur  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 1:19 pm : link
.
I know that contrary opinions vehemently stated is your shtick  
Greg from LI : 11/6/2018 1:26 pm : link
But I'd be curious to know in what ways McAdoo was "significantly better".
The way the league is  
ryanmkeane : 11/6/2018 1:31 pm : link
going it seems like Shurmur and Bowles types are just not adapting well. Meanwhile, you've got young offensive coaches who are putting up 30+ points a game using all types of creative ways to do it.

Shurmur punted on 4th and inches from an opponents 40 yard line.
RE: I know that contrary opinions vehemently stated is your shtick  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 1:35 pm : link
In comment 14167069 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But I'd be curious to know in what ways McAdoo was "significantly better".


Go back and look at the game log for 2016. The difference between 11-5 and 6-10 that year was razor thin, and that razor was McAdoo's game management. Everything he decided: when to kick FGs, when to punt, when to go for it on 4th down, how to manage the clock at the end of halves - all of it went in the Giants' favor. 8 of the 11 wins that year were won in the final possession, several times with the other team's offense on the field and running out of time or downs. That was a mediocre team guided by a very steady hand to a good record.

That's a lot more than Shurmur's ever done. In this half season Shurmur has already had 3 or 4 terrible game management errors that led to negative point differentials.
These threads crack me up  
TrueBlue56 : 11/6/2018 1:42 pm : link
First of all, shurmur has coached a whole 8 games as a giants head coach so far and you already know what he is or isn't.

Not only that but then you mention McDaniels?!?! Are you kidding me? I have already seen threads about solder being a product of the patriot system, but McDaniels isnt?

Let's play your little scenario. Shurmur gets fired and McDaniels comes in next year. We start all over again? Another new coaching staff? And what if we struggle yet again because of another change? Are we having another conversation to replace McDaniels?

We swept the front office and coaching staff and we turned over 2/3 of the roster with more changes to come. Let gettleman and shurmur do their job and evaluate their results when they have had more than 8 games to fix a disaster that was 6 years in the making!!

Posts like this really gives me an appreciation that fans don't have control in decisions.
TrueBlue  
ryanmkeane : 11/6/2018 2:06 pm : link
I didn't say I knew what Shurmur was. I said he has shown absolutely nothing yet that tells me he's going to be a good head coach. There's zero energy. There's zero creativity. We are behind in every game. He has deferred on the kickoff in every game. He can't manage the clock. The gameplans are bad. He looks lifeless on the sideline throughout the majority of the game. The only time we ever seem to have ANY urgency whatsoever is if we get down by 3 scores with 10 minutes left to go in the game. The players haven't responded, in fact I'd say there has been multiple games where we looked lifeless from the start and just didn't show up for games. How's that for coaching so far?
One of the main issues  
ryanmkeane : 11/6/2018 2:09 pm : link
I had with Shurmur is when a reporter asked him about game management, scoring too quickly, and his response was something like "that's bullshit, I'm not entertaining that question" or something to that effect...I think it was the Carolina game. Every single good head coach in the NFL would have done this differently. Every single one.
Also for those  
ryanmkeane : 11/6/2018 2:09 pm : link
hating on McDaniels...we are 1-7. Do you think hiring a new HC would actually make use worse than we already are?
RE: Also for those  
Greg from LI : 11/6/2018 2:14 pm : link
In comment 14167118 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
hating on McDaniels...we are 1-7. Do you think hiring a new HC would actually make use worse than we already are?


No, if we get a new coach I'd rather get one that might be an improvement. How's Matt Patricia doing? Ohhhhh, right.

Never hire a Belichick assistant from New England.
RE: One of the main issues  
TrueBlue56 : 11/6/2018 2:16 pm : link
In comment 14167117 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
I had with Shurmur is when a reporter asked him about game management, scoring too quickly, and his response was something like "that's bullshit, I'm not entertaining that question" or something to that effect...I think it was the Carolina game. Every single good head coach in the NFL would have done this differently. Every single one.


We were down 7 points. You score when you can score and it took a 63 yard field goal to beat us. My gosh you picked the wrong game and comment to gripe about.

Every NFL head coach will tell you that scoring a touchdown when down by 7 late in the game is the most important thing and the clock is secondary. Every NFL coach!!
I woudlnt hire McDaniels  
jonnyess : 11/6/2018 2:31 pm : link
..based merely on his lifelong membership in the total douchebag club if nothing else....
RE: RE: Yes!  
section125 : 11/6/2018 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14167000 Go Terps said:
Quote:


It was an awful, mystifying hire.


Alright Mr Selfimportance, who did you want for HC?

And when did you steal Doomsters persona? Is he still alive or what did you do with the body?
There's  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/6/2018 3:27 pm : link
very little if any evidence to back this up:

Quote:
McAdoo was significantly better than Shurmur
Go Terps : 1:19 pm : link : reply


Especially the "significantly" part
RE: There's  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 3:36 pm : link
In comment 14167212 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
very little if any evidence to back this up:



Quote:


McAdoo was significantly better than Shurmur
Go Terps : 1:19 pm : link : reply



Especially the "significantly" part


Sure there is: McAdoo was excellent in 2016.

Shurmur's been excellent...never. And he certainly hasn't been excellent this season.
Shurmur may be bad. He may be good  
Greg from LI : 11/6/2018 3:44 pm : link
I'm not sure how anyone can say so based off eight games with a corpse at QB and an OL that's about as effective as a blocking sled.
McAdoo..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/6/2018 3:57 pm : link
wasn't excellent in 2016. He managed the end of game situations better than TC.

Or better stated - the games we lost the year before because our D couldn't hold teams, we won in 2016.

It is hard to point that to coaching, especially given the shitshow that was 2017
can we think of some differences between 2016 and now?  
Greg from LI : 11/6/2018 4:00 pm : link
Some which may explain the differences in records?

-Olivier Vernon healthy and playing at a high level
-JPP playing at a high level
-Landon Collins having an All-Pro season
-Cornerback depth - Jenkins playing at a high level and DRC on the team and playing well.
RE: I don't know - the stunt he pulled with the Colts gives pause  
Deejboy : 11/6/2018 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14166863 Go Terps said:
Quote:
On the flip side, Belichick was happy to take him back and he is once again doing an incredible job as their OC.

One other thing - I don't think the Giants' job is especially attractive. From the outside this is a team that doesn't look like it knows which way is up.

If the Jets fire Bowles, that's the better job. At least you have the QB to work with.

Unfortunately the QB you get to work with isn't very good. I'd rather pick my own QB.
RE: These threads crack me up  
Deejboy : 11/6/2018 4:39 pm : link
In comment 14167093 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
First of all, shurmur has coached a whole 8 games as a giants head coach so far and you already know what he is or isn't.

Not only that but then you mention McDaniels?!?! Are you kidding me? I have already seen threads about solder being a product of the patriot system, but McDaniels isnt?

Let's play your little scenario. Shurmur gets fired and McDaniels comes in next year. We start all over again? Another new coaching staff? And what if we struggle yet again because of another change? Are we having another conversation to replace McDaniels?

We swept the front office and coaching staff and we turned over 2/3 of the roster with more changes to come. Let gettleman and shurmur do their job and evaluate their results when they have had more than 8 games to fix a disaster that was 6 years in the making!!

Posts like this really gives me an appreciation that fans don't have control in decisions.

Most Giants fans have left their brains at the door. It's best to ignore them.
RE: Try and remember or look up what a job parcels did in his first season  
compton : 11/6/2018 5:33 pm : link
In comment 14166900 plato said:
Quote:
As Giants head coach. He was terrible from not starting Simms to play calling etc. his head was almost on the block. But Young gave him more time, although he was unsure and checked elsewhere which infuriated Parcells laying the foundation for the breakdown that was to come after Super Bowl #2.

Shurmur deserves a second year, needs to straighten out qb, and improve athleticism of team


I'm making no judgement on Shurmur. But Parcels was a first time head coach in 1983. This is not Shurmur first rodeo and he was horrible in his previous head coaching stint. Bill Belicick is the one you probably want to use as your example. However,
Funny you should mention Belichick  
Greg from LI : 11/6/2018 5:39 pm : link
In the first season of his second head coaching job, the 2000 Patriots were 5-11, though they sort of bounced back to finish 5-11 after starting 2-8.
RE: I can't see them firing Shurmur after one season, though  
CGiants07 : 11/6/2018 6:41 pm : link
In comment 14166867 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
he's been a complete letdown IMO.


its a talent issue
Amazing  
Doomster : 11/7/2018 8:06 am : link
how Schurm is suddenly going to become Parcells/BB.....
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