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Shurmur: Eli starting vs SF

lawguy9801 : 11/6/2018 12:46 pm
Didn't see a thread on this. Doesn't sound like Lauletta is ready.

Quote:
Eli Manning will continue to serve as the starting quarterback of the New York Giants at least through their Week 10 game against the San Francisco 49ers on Monday Night Football.

Coming out of the bye week, some fans wondered if head coach Pat Shurmur would make the decision to bench Manning for rookie quarterback Kyle Lauletta. Those expectations died down a bit after Lauletta was arrested on a traffic violation. Lauletta will not start in Week 10 against the 49ers.

On Tuesday, Shurmur told Giants reporters Manning would remain his starter in Week 10. Shurmur also added that he specifically spoke with Manning and the entire team about needing to play better and why it isn't good enough for the Giants to be "almost" in these games, as Manning has described at times in radio spots when assessing the team's offense after losses.

Link - ( New Window )
Lauletta will still be #3  
lawguy9801 : 11/6/2018 12:47 pm : link
Quote:
According to Paul Dottino, Shurmur also added that he is not afraid to turn to No. 2 quarterback Alex Tanney in a game if need be. When asked about Lauletta, Shurmur simply reiterated that he was from a small school (Richmond, Division 1AA) and he still had much to learn.
Will Lauletta be active for the game?  
RobCarpenter : 11/6/2018 12:48 pm : link
I think it was always a fantasy that he'd come out of the bye as the starter. But he at least should be active. If he isn't, ugh.
Some Fans?  
Diver_Down : 11/6/2018 12:49 pm : link
more like Dumb Fans. The kid hasn't even earned a jersey and people want him to start. There is a process that will occur, and that process isn't elevating the #3 to starter in 1 week.
You want to activate 3 QBs  
antdog24 : 11/6/2018 12:49 pm : link
on gameday? Who do you sit?
Hollah!  
rocco8112 : 11/6/2018 12:50 pm : link
The run starts now baby. Eli will be airing it out 60 times playing Shurmur ball on Monday as this win starts the streak that allows the Giants to run the table and claim the East.

You gotta believe, I know Shurmur found the answers during the bye week.
Lauletta's little  
Matt in SGS : 11/6/2018 12:50 pm : link
version of the Cannonball Run in Weehawken made it impossible to start him right now. And we know how Mara thinks. The Giants are 1-7 but the NFC East stinks. Dallas lost, Washington is all banged up and the Eagles are inconsistent. The Texans went from 0-3 to leading their division. Eli will continue to be out there until the Giants lose their 9th or 10th game, and then Lauletta will play.
If Lauletta being from a small school was a problem, why draft him?  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 12:56 pm : link
Christ this team fucking sucks.
RE: You want to activate 3 QBs  
ZogZerg : 11/6/2018 12:57 pm : link
In comment 14166988 antdog24 said:
Quote:
on gameday? Who do you sit?


FYI - other teams (i.e., Saints) activate 3 QBs.
Not saying we should, just that it's not unheard of.
Matt, yup  
JonC : 11/6/2018 12:58 pm : link
I don't expect to see Lauletta until the math says they're out, or real close to it.
RE: If Lauletta being from a small school was a problem, why draft him?  
UConn4523 : 11/6/2018 1:00 pm : link
In comment 14167003 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Christ this team fucking sucks.


Canít answer the question on why he was drafted definitively but Iím guessing the plan was to have Eli and the OLine not suck and allow Lauletta to redshirt.
Iím getting more and more convinced...  
bw in dc : 11/6/2018 1:03 pm : link
that Shurmur is absolutely the wrong person for this job.

Citing Lauletta coming from a 1-AA school as reason not to use him is idiotic. Then why even invest a 4th round pick?

I agree.....  
Doomster : 11/6/2018 1:03 pm : link
We drafted him when that pick could have been used elsewhere....

It's Webb/Nassib all over again.....

As for not being "ready"? Either he is not talented enough, or he is not ready? 5 other rookie qb's were "ready", but outs is not?
GM makes the picks  
JonC : 11/6/2018 1:05 pm : link
coach coaches the team, it's not unusual (tho it sucks to hear it) they might not speak on a player from the same point of view.
RE: If Lauletta being from a small school was a problem, why draft him?  
jtfuoco : 11/6/2018 1:05 pm : link
In comment 14167003 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Christ this team fucking sucks.


Exactly, It sure was not a problem for Wentz but these are the types of mistakes the Giants make all the time during their drafts that just get overlooked for some reason.
I dont think the car stuff is the reason Lauletta isnt starting  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/6/2018 1:05 pm : link
Shurmur just thinks Eli is the best chance to win, its that simple. He is feeling a ton of heat and knows that ANY win will alleviate that pressure.
If Tanney sees the field...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/6/2018 1:05 pm : link
I got nothing.

As for this 'Lauletta went to a small school'...WTF?

Shurmur has been a real disappointment thus far.
I thought the attraction to Lauletta  
bceagle05 : 11/6/2018 1:06 pm : link
is that he played in a pro-style system in college? Shurmur's just making it up as he goes along.
RE: GM makes the picks  
Sean : 11/6/2018 1:07 pm : link
In comment 14167022 JonC said:
Quote:
coach coaches the team, it's not unusual (tho it sucks to hear it) they might not speak on a player from the same point of view.


This is such an outdated model.
As long as Eli is on the team  
UConn4523 : 11/6/2018 1:07 pm : link
and healthy and we arenít eliminated, heís going to play. The HC will say a lot of things to deflect, doesnít mean much to me.
Then why  
Joey in VA : 11/6/2018 1:08 pm : link
Waste a 4th round pick on a small school kid you have no intention of playing when you could have picked up another OL and kept Webb? Fuck Shurmur is really starting to annoy me.
RE: RE: If Lauletta being from a small school was a problem, why draft him?  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 1:09 pm : link
In comment 14167009 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14167003 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Christ this team fucking sucks.



Canít answer the question on why he was drafted definitively but Iím guessing the plan was to have Eli and the OLine not suck and allow Lauletta to redshirt.


Plans can change if competent people are implementing them. The 49ers just won a game on a short week with a guy from the practice squad that was undrafted out of Southern Miss.

We used a 4th round pick on Lauletta. That's not a premium pick, but it's not a throw away either. I'm not expecting him to come out and have a Drew Brees-level mastery of the offense, but I do expect that he could play right now if called upon. Otherwise, what's the point?
RE: Lauletta's little  
Rjanyg : 11/6/2018 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14166992 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
version of the Cannonball Run in Weehawken made it impossible to start him right now. And we know how Mara thinks. The Giants are 1-7 but the NFC East stinks. Dallas lost, Washington is all banged up and the Eagles are inconsistent. The Texans went from 0-3 to leading their division. Eli will continue to be out there until the Giants lose their 9th or 10th game, and then Lauletta will play.


You are probably right Matt. And watch this team win the next 2 games and BBI will be all fired up.
Let's get this to 1-9  
K-Gun? Pop-Gun : 11/6/2018 1:10 pm : link
Then things had better happen in a hurry.
Hopefully we are not going to send any scouts  
Jimmy Googs : 11/6/2018 1:10 pm : link
to small schools going forward...
The other potentially more logical conclusion  
Now Mike in MD : 11/6/2018 1:11 pm : link
is that maybe he's just not ready, so why kill a young player's confidence by putting him in a situation where he is doomed to fail, especially behind an OL that would make it difficult for even a veteran QB to succeed behind?
Eli btw doesnít give us the best chance...  
bw in dc : 11/6/2018 1:12 pm : link
to win. The evidence is overwhelming.

I think weíd do considerably better having Barkley run the wildcat.

Best chance to win...LOFL.
RE: If Lauletta being from a small school was a problem, why draft him?  
Giantophile : 11/6/2018 1:12 pm : link
In comment 14167003 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Christ this team fucking sucks.


I'm frustrated too, but I don't agree with this logic. You can draft a QB to develop in the 4th round. Not being ready halfway through his rookie season is an indictment of the pick, it's just a consequence of "plan A" going to shit.
isn't*  
Giantophile : 11/6/2018 1:13 pm : link
.
RE: Then why  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 11/6/2018 1:16 pm : link
In comment 14167033 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Waste a 4th round pick on a small school kid you have no intention of playing when you could have picked up another OL and kept Webb? Fuck Shurmur is really starting to annoy me.


Yeah, it makes no sense to me. There were a couple of guards that I would have preferred to a third string QB who apparently will never see the field.
RE: The other potentially more logical conclusion  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 1:17 pm : link
In comment 14167045 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:
is that maybe he's just not ready, so why kill a young player's confidence by putting him in a situation where he is doomed to fail, especially behind an OL that would make it difficult for even a veteran QB to succeed behind?


The advantage we have in this situation is that we don't have an enormous investment in Lauletta. If we play him, he fails, and it destroys him, then it only costs us the 4th rounder we spent on him. But if we play him and he's competent, it could completely change how we approach this offseason - including a premium draft pick.

Here's the other issue: as the losses continue to add up so will our population on the IR. If we wait until weeks 15 or 16 to play Lauletta there's a good chance he's going to be surrounded by a skeleton crew. Now is the time to play him with our first string to try to pull something meaningful out of this season.

This guy is a potential lottery ticket, and we won't drive to the fucking 7-11 to even see if we won. The people running this team don't know what they are doing.

RE: If Lauletta being from a small school was a problem, why draft him?  
jcn56 : 11/6/2018 1:18 pm : link
In comment 14167003 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Christ this team fucking sucks.


+1 - the poor decision making continues. There's absolutely no reason for him to be #3 at this point, stupid traffic infraction or small school notwithstanding.
Believing anything...  
Chris in Philly : 11/6/2018 1:20 pm : link
sports figures say to members of the media seems like a bad strategy...
What's wrong with having Lauletta learn on the job?  
RobCarpenter : 11/6/2018 1:21 pm : link
It's not as if this team has any chance of winning with Eli. The NFC East may suck but those other teams at least have competent OL play. Even Washington with its backups will have better OL play.

And I'd dress Lauletta as the #2, if not this week then next. Going into the offseason without any clue on what you have in Lauletta is idiotic.

Alex Tanney...  
Capt. Don : 11/6/2018 1:21 pm : link
On this roster made little sense to start the year. It makes sense now.
Shurmur is trying to win games  
JonC : 11/6/2018 1:22 pm : link
He's going to prepare and play the QB he feels is the best chance to win. I'm as frustrated with Eli as the rest here, but also realize PS/coaches/players are working to try and keep their jobs too.
RE: RE: The other potentially more logical conclusion  
Now Mike in MD : 11/6/2018 1:23 pm : link
In comment 14167053 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14167045 Now Mike in MD said:


Quote:


is that maybe he's just not ready, so why kill a young player's confidence by putting him in a situation where he is doomed to fail, especially behind an OL that would make it difficult for even a veteran QB to succeed behind?



The advantage we have in this situation is that we don't have an enormous investment in Lauletta. If we play him, he fails, and it destroys him, then it only costs us the 4th rounder we spent on him. But if we play him and he's competent, it could completely change how we approach this offseason - including a premium draft pick.

Here's the other issue: as the losses continue to add up so will our population on the IR. If we wait until weeks 15 or 16 to play Lauletta there's a good chance he's going to be surrounded by a skeleton crew. Now is the time to play him with our first string to try to pull something meaningful out of this season.

This guy is a potential lottery ticket, and we won't drive to the fucking 7-11 to even see if we won. The people running this team don't know what they are doing.


Just because he's a fourth rounder doesn't mean you throw him to the dogs and treat him like a disposable item whose confidence is irrelevant. And with the OL being what it is, there is a good chance that you will have no idea what KL is. Finally, I highly doubt that anything KL does would change the team's opinion if a blue chip QB was available to them in the 2019 draft.
Why canít a coach save his job...  
bw in dc : 11/6/2018 1:27 pm : link
by demonstrating he can coach up a rookie and develop a game plan that matches the playerís specific skill sets?

Isnít Shurmur supposed to be a QB guru? Well, letís put that to the test...

Playing Eli is simply this - THE EASY WAY OUT.
RE: Shurmur is trying to win games  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 1:28 pm : link
In comment 14167062 JonC said:
Quote:
He's going to prepare and play the QB he feels is the best chance to win. I'm as frustrated with Eli as the rest here, but also realize PS/coaches/players are working to try and keep their jobs too.


I would play Eli too if I were Shurmur. And that's a huge part of the problem with the organization of this team: Shurmur isn't tasked with taking the global view. He's trying to turn a 2-14 season into a 5-11 season, and that isn't as important as considering the general direction of the organization.
I suppose there's not enough time in a week  
JonC : 11/6/2018 1:29 pm : link
to get KL all the reps he might need to demonstrate mental and physical grasp of all the assignments, nuances, etc.

Not unusual, it took Eli a few months to get on the field, and he stunk it up for awhile.
RE: RE: Shurmur is trying to win games  
JonC : 11/6/2018 1:30 pm : link
In comment 14167073 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14167062 JonC said:


Quote:


He's going to prepare and play the QB he feels is the best chance to win. I'm as frustrated with Eli as the rest here, but also realize PS/coaches/players are working to try and keep their jobs too.



I would play Eli too if I were Shurmur. And that's a huge part of the problem with the organization of this team: Shurmur isn't tasked with taking the global view. He's trying to turn a 2-14 season into a 5-11 season, and that isn't as important as considering the general direction of the organization.


I get it, but I can't think of another football team that's done it much differently in recent history. They default to the ideology of people being given the chance to keep their jobs, at all levels.
RE: RE: Shurmur is trying to win games  
Sean : 11/6/2018 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14167073 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14167062 JonC said:


Quote:


He's going to prepare and play the QB he feels is the best chance to win. I'm as frustrated with Eli as the rest here, but also realize PS/coaches/players are working to try and keep their jobs too.



I would play Eli too if I were Shurmur. And that's a huge part of the problem with the organization of this team: Shurmur isn't tasked with taking the global view. He's trying to turn a 2-14 season into a 5-11 season, and that isn't as important as considering the general direction of the organization.


Yup, more of the same. Year to year mentality. The narrative at the end of the season will be, letís give Shurmur another year. Then weíll go 7-9 & Shurmur will be presented with a win or else mandate in 2020.

So predictable.
RE: Iím getting more and more convinced...  
Big Blue '56 : 11/6/2018 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14167019 bw in dc said:
Quote:
that Shurmur is absolutely the wrong person for this job.

Citing Lauletta coming from a 1-AA school as reason not to use him is idiotic. Then why even invest a 4th round pick?


Sounds familiar. You said the same thing about TC even after he won the SBs..:)
RE: RE: Shurmur is trying to win games  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 11/6/2018 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14167073 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14167062 JonC said:


Quote:


He's going to prepare and play the QB he feels is the best chance to win. I'm as frustrated with Eli as the rest here, but also realize PS/coaches/players are working to try and keep their jobs too.



I would play Eli too if I were Shurmur. And that's a huge part of the problem with the organization of this team: Shurmur isn't tasked with taking the global view. He's trying to turn a 2-14 season into a 5-11 season, and that isn't as important as considering the general direction of the organization.


Where is this second win coming from? I still don't see one on the schedule.
League should return to the rule allowing the third QB to play late  
Ivan15 : 11/6/2018 1:32 pm : link
in games.
RE: RE: You want to activate 3 QBs  
Section331 : 11/6/2018 1:35 pm : link
In comment 14167004 ZogZerg said:
Quote:

FYI - other teams (i.e., Saints) activate 3 QBs.
Not saying we should, just that it's not unheard of.


OK, but Hill plays many roles for the team - KR, WC QB, slot back, so he's hardly a waste of a roster spot.
We can discuss this until we die  
bluesince56 : 11/6/2018 1:35 pm : link
Management doesnít care what we say or how we feel. Stay home on game day or come to the park and burn your tickets. Thatís what we did in the 70s.
Sounds like you wont see Lauletta hit the field  
micky : 11/6/2018 1:36 pm : link
Anytime this year (ala Webb and Nassib) based on not at pro level readiness.

Good luck Eli 😊
Maybe there's more value to grooming him properly and training him  
Bill L : 11/6/2018 1:36 pm : link
to be ready as opposed to rushing him to the bigs and killing his career? There's ample precedent for that.

Also, everyone is different, so it's not surprising that one person's path may not be the correct one for another. I don't think anecdotes about "so and so did this" or "it worked for so and so" are either helpful or terribly insightful.
the last coach  
UESBLUE : 11/6/2018 1:37 pm : link
got fired for benching Eli What do you expect?
RE: RE: RE: Shurmur is trying to win games  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14167077 Sean said:
Quote:
The narrative at the end of the season will be, letís give Shurmur another year. Then weíll go 7-9 & Shurmur will be presented with a win or else mandate in 2020.

So predictable.


This is exactly how I see it playing out.
RE: RE: RE: You want to activate 3 QBs  
chopperhatch : 11/6/2018 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14167084 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 14167004 ZogZerg said:


Quote:



FYI - other teams (i.e., Saints) activate 3 QBs.
Not saying we should, just that it's not unheard of.



OK, but Hill plays many roles for the team - KR, WC QB, slot back, so he's hardly a waste of a roster spot.


Please....those are just details.
The fan in me says, let Lauletta play, NOW.  
Big Blue '56 : 11/6/2018 1:49 pm : link
The realist in me says, I donít know squat about readiness, etc..Shit on the Giants coaches all you want, but they KNOW. We donít
Lauletta  
family progtitioner : 11/6/2018 1:51 pm : link
is not going to even sniff playing time this year, IMO. Playing Eli the full season and going 2-14, 3-13 will give the owners and management the ammo to say the Manning era is over and they can move on without fan backlash.

Or, this was just another in a long line of wasted 4th rd picks and he'll never be ready, a la Webb.
It's the same shit as last year  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 11/6/2018 1:56 pm : link
Lauletta, could have been put into the backup role now to start getting those reps, and eventually be ready to play when we are eliminated from any hope of winning the division.

Then we can at least see what he has and make a good decision.

We are likely to go from Eli to Talley first.

It's like they didn't learn a god damn thing from last season.
This is BS....  
Chris684 : 11/6/2018 1:56 pm : link
This season was officially over the minute the Falcons game ended, and you know they knew it too by the couple of trades they did make.

You mean to tell me, a 4th round pick who got a significant amount of reps and playing time in the preseason, can't get ready to start an NFL game with 3 weeks to prepare?

You want him to get meaningful snaps so you have a realistic evaluation. Not playing in week 16 or 17 when half the roster is already on vacation. There is very little to lose and only a potential jackpot (even if a long shot) to win.

Also, whether you love Eli or hate him, I think we're all in agreement that we don't want to see him in this mess any longer. There is no longer any benefit to him or anyone else.

I never wanted Shurmur here to begin with, but I think I'm now in the camp of blowing this all up again.
If Eli finally reaches a career .500 record...  
Drewcon40 : 11/6/2018 1:58 pm : link
...I wonder if that is when they make the switch? The organization seems to be ultra sensitive when it comes to Eli.

RE: RE: GM makes the picks  
Les in TO : 11/6/2018 1:59 pm : link
In comment 14167030 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 14167022 JonC said:


Quote:


coach coaches the team, it's not unusual (tho it sucks to hear it) they might not speak on a player from the same point of view.



This is such an outdated model.
they hired a crusty old GM who insists on being referred to as Mr Gettleman, who relies on religious inspiration over data analytics
Huh?  
Mr. Bungle : 11/6/2018 1:59 pm : link
"Shurmur also added that he specifically spoke with Manning and the entire team about needing to play better and why it isn't good enough for the Giants to be "almost" in these games, as Manning has described at times in radio spots when assessing the team's offense after losses."

When did Eli ever say or imply that it was good enough to be "almost" in games? Doesn't Eli ALWAYS say that he (and the team) needs to play better?

Shurmur has "dull, mediocre, uninspiring coach" written all over him. I can't wait until the Giants are looking for another head coach in 2021 after Shurmur's brilliant 15-33 tenure ends...
RE: Huh?  
chopperhatch : 11/6/2018 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14167110 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
"Shurmur also added that he specifically spoke with Manning and the entire team about needing to play better and why it isn't good enough for the Giants to be "almost" in these games, as Manning has described at times in radio spots when assessing the team's offense after losses."

When did Eli ever say or imply that it was good enough to be "almost" in games? Doesn't Eli ALWAYS say that he (and the team) needs to play better?

Shurmur has "dull, mediocre, uninspiring coach" written all over him. I can't wait until the Giants are looking for another head coach in 2021 after Shurmur's brilliant 15-33 tenure ends...


Dude, when is he amassing 17 more wins in the next 2 years? Lol going with the way this season looks, I see us MAYBE grabbing 2 more. So 12 more in the next 2 years is.....a stretch.

Might be on the hot seat after THIS year.
RE: RE: Huh?  
chopperhatch : 11/6/2018 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14167112 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 14167110 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


"Shurmur also added that he specifically spoke with Manning and the entire team about needing to play better and why it isn't good enough for the Giants to be "almost" in these games, as Manning has described at times in radio spots when assessing the team's offense after losses."

When did Eli ever say or imply that it was good enough to be "almost" in games? Doesn't Eli ALWAYS say that he (and the team) needs to play better?

Shurmur has "dull, mediocre, uninspiring coach" written all over him. I can't wait until the Giants are looking for another head coach in 2021 after Shurmur's brilliant 15-33 tenure ends...



Dude, when is he amassing 17 more wins in the next 2 years? Lol going with the way this season looks, I see us MAYBE grabbing 2 more. So 12 more in the next 2 years is.....a stretch.

Might be on the hot seat after THIS year.


Should read "14 more wins."
JFC its like losing makes people lose their common sense  
Mighty : 11/6/2018 2:06 pm : link
So a 4th round project pick not being ready to start midway through their first year is a wasted pick and a sign of incompetence now? He was always going to be a project and the plan was to bring him along slowly which is why he was the 3rd stringer. Webb as the 3rd round pick last year was the same thing and why he was the 3rd stringer.

The 3rd string QB is more of a project that is brought along slowly. Typically its a QB that excels at some part of the position but needs a lot of work on another part. Thats why they went and got Tanney to be the vet backup and then Webb and Lauletta fought it out for the project QB role. Its really not that difficult to understand for people who can look at it objectively and not with some agenda based on not drafting a QB at #2.

The draft is not for filling a need just for the coming year its to also fill positions long term and down the road. Why bring in a guy before he is ready to go behind this OL in an all but lost season? just to appease some fans? there will be plenty of games left where he can come in as he gets his feet under him.

I just dont understand this place sometimes and from some otherwise very knowledgeable fans.
This notion that  
ryanmkeane : 11/6/2018 2:10 pm : link
Shurmur is trying to "keep his job" by starting Eli is hilarious. WE ARE 1 AND 7...HOW IS STARTING ANOTHER GUY GOING TO MAKE IT ANY WORSE????
RE: JFC its like losing makes people lose their common sense  
Mad Mike : 11/6/2018 2:11 pm : link
In comment 14167114 Mighty said:
Quote:
So a 4th round project pick not being ready to start midway through their first year is a wasted pick and a sign of incompetence now?

For some, signs of incompetence are all they even want to see from the organization, so they're happy to jump on anything.
i will say though  
Mighty : 11/6/2018 2:11 pm : link
that Lauletta should be moved up to #2 to accelerate his learning curve so that somewhere within the next 3-4 games he can come in and we can see what we have.
Good post, Mighty  
JonC : 11/6/2018 2:11 pm : link
ryanmkeane, if you asked PS the question, that would be his response, like it or not.
This  
Jerry in DC : 11/6/2018 2:12 pm : link
is more of an organizational issue than a shurmur issue. The default mentality of a coach is to do everything possible to win immediately. That's just what a coach does.

Changes to that mentality come from ownership and management. For example in the nba a team might put minutes limits on young or injury prone players. That directive comes from management. The coach, left to his own devices, would set his rotations to get wins in the near term, or at a max, plan for the playoffs this year. Hes not thinking multiple years out.

I would like to see lauletta out there. I think its certainly the right move for the giants. But I think it's more of a mara decision than a shurmur decision.
A good HC  
Dan in the Springs : 11/6/2018 2:14 pm : link
doesn't start guys in the middle of the season during a very winnable game if they aren't yet ready just to see what they can do, or just to help them learn.

You play the games to win while you're still in it mathematically.
Imagine being a 1-7 giants fan  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/6/2018 2:18 pm : link
And thinking a game against a team that just embarrassed the equally shitty Raiders is a "very winnable game".
A couple of weeks ago  
mitch300 : 11/6/2018 2:28 pm : link
on his weekly appearance on ther MKS steve Young was asked why Lauletta was not moved up to #2. Young said because the coaching staff didn't think he was ready.Young was just saying in general not that he had any inside info.
RE: I thought the attraction to Lauletta  
Blue21 : 11/6/2018 2:31 pm : link
In comment 14167029 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
is that he played in a pro-style system in college? Shurmur's just making it up as he goes along.


I could have sworn at the beginning of the year Shurmur said he's confident in all his QB's. This double talk is starting to be aggravating. Now it's he's not ready? So which is it. I've been supportive of DG and Shurmur but this is starting to wear thin.
RE: A couple of weeks ago  
JonC : 11/6/2018 2:32 pm : link
In comment 14167136 mitch300 said:
Quote:
on his weekly appearance on ther MKS steve Young was asked why Lauletta was not moved up to #2. Young said because the coaching staff didn't think he was ready.Young was just saying in general not that he had any inside info.


It's a common strategy, and a move to #2 would signal they feel he's ready to give it a shot.
Here's an example of a change being made  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 2:33 pm : link
2004 - we benched Kurt Warner for Eli Manning despite being 5-4 at the time. We were far from out of it: the two wildcard teams in the NFC had 8-8 records. Incidentally, each of those wildcard teams (St. Louis and Minnesota) won their first playoff game. The point being, we still very much had a season on the line when we opted to pull the veteran for the rookie.

Well here we are at 1-7 with zero prospects for the playoffs. This situation screams QB change even more than that one did.
RE: RE: I thought the attraction to Lauletta  
YAJ2112 : 11/6/2018 2:34 pm : link
In comment 14167139 Blue21 said:
Quote:
In comment 14167029 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


is that he played in a pro-style system in college? Shurmur's just making it up as he goes along.



I could have sworn at the beginning of the year Shurmur said he's confident in all his QB's. This double talk is starting to be aggravating. Now it's he's not ready? So which is it. I've been supportive of DG and Shurmur but this is starting to wear thin.


OMG, a coach wasn't 100% forthcoming to the media/fans. Fire him immediately.
Warner was concussed  
JonC : 11/6/2018 2:34 pm : link
they had to make the move.
Much like Webb  
dep026 : 11/6/2018 2:35 pm : link
You arenít putting a young QB behind this OL who isnít ready.

For as bad as Eli has been, it could be much much much worse.
This strikes me as one of those things  
blueblood : 11/6/2018 2:39 pm : link
until the Giants are " mathematically " eliminated they will not make a move at QB.
Can someone name  
rocco8112 : 11/6/2018 2:43 pm : link
two things about Shurmur that give you faith for the future? I know the whole thing is a mess, but what is there to like about this guy as a coach so far.
RE: Warner was concussed  
Big Blue '56 : 11/6/2018 2:44 pm : link
In comment 14167145 JonC said:
Quote:
they had to make the move.


Yup, had to be. At 5-4 we were still very much in the thick of the playoff race
RE: Matt, yup  
AcidTest : 11/6/2018 2:45 pm : link
In comment 14167007 JonC said:
Quote:
I don't expect to see Lauletta until the math says they're out, or real close to it.


I don't expect to see him even then.
Took me awhile to find the quote...  
NYG07 : 11/6/2018 2:45 pm : link
Here is a Shurmur commenting on playing Lauletta this season:

If push came to shove, Shurmur would feel very confident turning the offensive reigns over to the rookie in a regular season game.

"Very comfortable," Shurmur said definitively when asked how comfortable he is about playing Lauletta in a regular season game.


Shurmur comment from September - ( New Window )
RE: Warner was concussed  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 2:46 pm : link
In comment 14167145 JonC said:
Quote:
they had to make the move.


True, but the move was made nonetheless. Like Jerry said above, I wouldn't expect Shurmur to make the move - it should be mandated from above. Or it could have been forced had the front office worked to trade Eli before the deadline, which we admittedly don't know.

The point is that it's possible. From the global perspective there is no point in playing Eli anymore.
Terps  
JonC : 11/6/2018 2:49 pm : link
I do get it ... I'd rather absolutely suck this season, let them reach the conclusion it's time for change, and go after a blue chipper. Even if no blue chipper, at least a friggin' THIRST to go after a new vision, players, etc.
RE: Terps  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 2:52 pm : link
In comment 14167163 JonC said:
Quote:
I do get it ... I'd rather absolutely suck this season, let them reach the conclusion it's time for change, and go after a blue chipper. Even if no blue chipper, at least a friggin' THIRST to go after a new vision, players, etc.


Completely. I have never been more disgusted with this team. It's never been this bad in my lifetime.
RE: It's the same shit as last year  
micky : 11/6/2018 2:53 pm : link
In comment 14167104 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
Lauletta, could have been put into the backup role now to start getting those reps, and eventually be ready to play when we are eliminated from any hope of winning the division.

Then we can at least see what he has and make a good decision.

We are likely to go from Eli to Talley first.

It's like they didn't learn a god damn thing from last season.


Lol. True
RE: RE: Warner was concussed  
chopperhatch : 11/6/2018 2:53 pm : link
In comment 14167160 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14167145 JonC said:


Quote:


they had to make the move.



True, but the move was made nonetheless. Like Jerry said above, I wouldn't expect Shurmur to make the move - it should be mandated from above. Or it could have been forced had the front office worked to trade Eli before the deadline, which we admittedly don't know.

The point is that it's possible. From the global perspective there is no point in playing Eli anymore.


I tend to agree, unless Lauletta is legitimately that far down the road. Then you really can't just sit Eli. You still have to pay him this year, he will probably be gone at the end of the season, and how do you justify playing Tanney?
I smell 8 - 8 and Shurmur does too  
rocco8112 : 11/6/2018 2:59 pm : link
HC has had two weeks to concoct a game plan. Frisco. Is starting a scrub the G men are starting a two time Super Bowl MVP ready and willing to pass fifty times on Monday night.

I think we see a different team out of the bye. Have some faith.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/6/2018 3:00 pm : link
Sounds like we're going to be comfortable to repeat the same mistake we made last year. Wouldn't expect anything less from the Giants right now. Wrong decision after wrong decision.
I don't get it at all...  
NYG07 : 11/6/2018 3:00 pm : link
I just posted a direct quote from Shurmur right before the season started that he would be very comfortable playing Lauletta in the regular season as a rookie. Now he is from a small school and has a lot to learn?

I have no idea what is going on. While I get the notion that Shurmur is trying to save his job, Eli is 4-19 since the start of last year, and they have zero shot at the playoffs. This team is borderline unwatchable as is. I don't see why waiting until they are mathematically eliminated should matter. Just get him ready to play ASAP.
RE: I smell 8 - 8 and Shurmur does too  
arcarsenal : 11/6/2018 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14167176 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
HC has had two weeks to concoct a game plan. Frisco. Is starting a scrub the G men are starting a two time Super Bowl MVP ready and willing to pass fifty times on Monday night.

I think we see a different team out of the bye. Have some faith.


Holy moly. You think this team is going 7-1 the rest of the way?

I just cannot even begin to understand what some of you guys are seeing on Sundays but whatever it is - it's a heck of a lot different than what I am.
RE: If Lauletta being from a small school was a problem, why draft him?  
section125 : 11/6/2018 3:02 pm : link
In comment 14167003 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Christ this team fucking sucks.


You are getting tedious. Relax. They suck. No amount of hand wringing or complaining about every least little thing is going to matter one iota this year.

QB is not RB or WR. Goff was from Cal, he sucked last year. Wentz was surrounded by a Super Bowl team, it as easier.
I'm getting tedious?  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 3:07 pm : link
How much more are we supposed to take before we get pissed off? Do you realize that for the good teams the real season hasn't even started yet? For the contenders the season doesn't really start until Thanksgiving. There are still pumpkins on doorsteps and our season has been over for a couple weeks.

I don't understand the fans that preach patience when the people running the show are incompetent. How much more evidence do you need?
RE: RE: The other potentially more logical conclusion  
Thegratefulhead : 11/6/2018 3:11 pm : link
In comment 14167053 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14167045 Now Mike in MD said:


Quote:


is that maybe he's just not ready, so why kill a young player's confidence by putting him in a situation where he is doomed to fail, especially behind an OL that would make it difficult for even a veteran QB to succeed behind?



The advantage we have in this situation is that we don't have an enormous investment in Lauletta. If we play him, he fails, and it destroys him, then it only costs us the 4th rounder we spent on him. But if we play him and he's competent, it could completely change how we approach this offseason - including a premium draft pick.

Here's the other issue: as the losses continue to add up so will our population on the IR. If we wait until weeks 15 or 16 to play Lauletta there's a good chance he's going to be surrounded by a skeleton crew. Now is the time to play him with our first string to try to pull something meaningful out of this season.

This guy is a potential lottery ticket, and we won't drive to the fucking 7-11 to even see if we won. The people running this team don't know what they are doing.
Solid post Terps
RE: I don't get it at all...  
shyster : 11/6/2018 3:11 pm : link
In comment 14167179 NYG07 said:
Quote:
I just posted a direct quote from Shurmur right before the season started that he would be very comfortable playing Lauletta in the regular season as a rookie. Now he is from a small school and has a lot to learn?

I have no idea what is going on. While I get the notion that Shurmur is trying to save his job, Eli is 4-19 since the start of last year, and they have zero shot at the playoffs. This team is borderline unwatchable as is. I don't see why waiting until they are mathematically eliminated should matter. Just get him ready to play ASAP.


Shurmur was being the good soldier supporting the decision his boss had made to cut Webb.

Now we have the reality.
RE: RE: The other potentially more logical conclusion  
JOrthman : 11/6/2018 3:12 pm : link
In comment 14167053 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14167045 Now Mike in MD said:


Quote:


is that maybe he's just not ready, so why kill a young player's confidence by putting him in a situation where he is doomed to fail, especially behind an OL that would make it difficult for even a veteran QB to succeed behind?



The advantage we have in this situation is that we don't have an enormous investment in Lauletta. If we play him, he fails, and it destroys him, then it only costs us the 4th rounder we spent on him. But if we play him and he's competent, it could completely change how we approach this offseason - including a premium draft pick.

Here's the other issue: as the losses continue to add up so will our population on the IR. If we wait until weeks 15 or 16 to play Lauletta there's a good chance he's going to be surrounded by a skeleton crew. Now is the time to play him with our first string to try to pull something meaningful out of this season.

This guy is a potential lottery ticket, and we won't drive to the fucking 7-11 to even see if we won. The people running this team don't know what they are doing.


My thoughts exactly, which is what drove my post a few weeks ago.
RE: RE: Shurmur is trying to win games  
JOrthman : 11/6/2018 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14167073 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14167062 JonC said:


Quote:


He's going to prepare and play the QB he feels is the best chance to win. I'm as frustrated with Eli as the rest here, but also realize PS/coaches/players are working to try and keep their jobs too.



I would play Eli too if I were Shurmur. And that's a huge part of the problem with the organization of this team: Shurmur isn't tasked with taking the global view. He's trying to turn a 2-14 season into a 5-11 season, and that isn't as important as considering the general direction of the organization.


True, but that is really the word today and specifically the NFL. No one has patience to see how it will work, least of all fans and franchises.
RE: I'm getting tedious?  
Sean : 11/6/2018 3:17 pm : link
In comment 14167185 Go Terps said:
Quote:
How much more are we supposed to take before we get pissed off? Do you realize that for the good teams the real season hasn't even started yet? For the contenders the season doesn't really start until Thanksgiving. There are still pumpkins on doorsteps and our season has been over for a couple weeks.

I don't understand the fans that preach patience when the people running the show are incompetent. How much more evidence do you need?


The expectations have gotten so damn low around here.
RE: RE: I smell 8 - 8 and Shurmur does too  
rocco8112 : 11/6/2018 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14167180 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14167176 rocco8112 said:


Quote:


HC has had two weeks to concoct a game plan. Frisco. Is starting a scrub the G men are starting a two time Super Bowl MVP ready and willing to pass fifty times on Monday night.

I think we see a different team out of the bye. Have some faith.



Holy moly. You think this team is going 7-1 the rest of the way?

I just cannot even begin to understand what some of you guys are seeing on Sundays but whatever it is - it's a heck of a lot different than what I am.


Strap in, it is going to be a wild ride. They may run the table.
RE: I'm getting tedious?  
rocco8112 : 11/6/2018 3:21 pm : link
In comment 14167185 Go Terps said:
Quote:
How much more are we supposed to take before we get pissed off? Do you realize that for the good teams the real season hasn't even started yet? For the contenders the season doesn't really start until Thanksgiving. There are still pumpkins on doorsteps and our season has been over for a couple weeks.

I don't understand the fans that preach patience when the people running the show are incompetent. How much more evidence do you need?


Yeah, I am just kidding with the winning stuff this team is hot garbage and it is clear as day that the franchise is rudderless and a joke.

It really is an accomplishment in this NFL to be this bad. Also agree it is pathetic to have so many seasons over so early. There is no enjoyment. This is the lowest I personally have ever seen this team. Fans should be bitching and moaning twenty four seven.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/6/2018 3:22 pm : link
I was going to say... I must be getting arc'd.
If they go the whole string with Eli  
K-Gun? Pop-Gun : 11/6/2018 3:27 pm : link
DG AND PS deserve to be fired.
What else is new?  
HomerJones45 : 11/6/2018 3:29 pm : link
The third stringer is the most popular guy on the team.

The same crew that was sure Davis Webb was the heir to Manning are now pimping for a 4th round pick to start.

There is no purpose to starting Lauletta. In no unoverse does he possess fellow small school qb Wentz's athletism, he is not going to stop us from shopping for a #1 pick or free agent vet, and the vast probabilites are that we will hang around for a year or two before his inevitable release and appearance on someone's practice squad.
RE: What else is new?  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 3:35 pm : link
In comment 14167213 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
The third stringer is the most popular guy on the team.

The same crew that was sure Davis Webb was the heir to Manning are now pimping for a 4th round pick to start.

There is no purpose to starting Lauletta. In no unoverse does he possess fellow small school qb Wentz's athletism, he is not going to stop us from shopping for a #1 pick or free agent vet, and the vast probabilites are that we will hang around for a year or two before his inevitable release and appearance on someone's practice squad.


I was the first guy on this board saying Webb couldn't play. That was obvious after watching him throw the ball a couple times.

That's not the case with Lauletta. He knows how to throw a football, and there's more point to play him than there is Eli, whose career with the Giants is over in all but name.
RE: What else is new?  
arcarsenal : 11/6/2018 3:37 pm : link
In comment 14167213 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
The third stringer is the most popular guy on the team.

The same crew that was sure Davis Webb was the heir to Manning are now pimping for a 4th round pick to start.

There is no purpose to starting Lauletta. In no unoverse does he possess fellow small school qb Wentz's athletism, he is not going to stop us from shopping for a #1 pick or free agent vet, and the vast probabilites are that we will hang around for a year or two before his inevitable release and appearance on someone's practice squad.


Can you make any case for starting Eli?

It had nothing to do with being "sure Webb was the heir" - we were trying to figure out if there was any reason to keep him or have him in our plans going into this season.

If he had played in games last season, they may have cut bait before the draft and approached the QB position differently in the Spring.

They were the ones who used Webb being on the roster as a rationalization for continuing to go with Eli. That should never have happened because they should already have known that Davis Webb wasn't worth carrying.

Now we're going to double down on that dumb mistake with Lauletta?

It's not about thinking he's so much better - it's about finding out if he's worth a shit at all so that we can have an actual plan going into next season and have better color on what the QB situation here really is.

It makes ZERO sense to continue playing Eli. There is nothing to gain .He has no future here. We need to plan for the next QB and the first way to do that is to evaluate what is on the roster now while we have the opportunity to do so in live games.
RE: What else is new?  
Drewcon40 : 11/6/2018 3:41 pm : link
In comment 14167213 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
The third stringer is the most popular guy on the team.

The same crew that was sure Davis Webb was the heir to Manning are now pimping for a 4th round pick to start.

There is no purpose to starting Lauletta. In no unoverse does he possess fellow small school qb Wentz's athletism, he is not going to stop us from shopping for a #1 pick or free agent vet, and the vast probabilites are that we will hang around for a year or two before his inevitable release and appearance on someone's practice squad.


Homer - you never know when you need those 3rd string quarterbacks. The 1990 NFC Championship game produced this moment:

RE: RE: What else is new?  
Thegratefulhead : 11/6/2018 3:42 pm : link
In comment 14167217 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14167213 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


The third stringer is the most popular guy on the team.

The same crew that was sure Davis Webb was the heir to Manning are now pimping for a 4th round pick to start.

There is no purpose to starting Lauletta. In no unoverse does he possess fellow small school qb Wentz's athletism, he is not going to stop us from shopping for a #1 pick or free agent vet, and the vast probabilites are that we will hang around for a year or two before his inevitable release and appearance on someone's practice squad.



I was the first guy on this board saying Webb couldn't play. That was obvious after watching him throw the ball a couple times.

That's not the case with Lauletta. He knows how to throw a football, and there's more point to play him than there is Eli, whose career with the Giants is over in all but name.
There is no purpose to starting Eli...NONE. 4-20 over the last 24 games. I have seen all I need to see. I will not watch the Giants again until they commit to the future. It is a waste of time. I want to see the energy of this team with someone else under center. This is extremely important to me. I want to hear what the players say after, win or lose. It matters. I want to see how Lauletta handles adversity. How he commands the huddles AFTER a number of games. There is important information to be gained with Lauletta at the helm. How will it affect play calling if the QB can avoid a hit ect. Eli starting another game tells us absolutely NOTHING. Move forward, make change, assess results and make more changes. Doing the same thing over and over is gross negligence by the franchise.
Drewcon  
Go Terps : 11/6/2018 3:43 pm : link
That's a great point, and a great picture.

"Why isn't Lauletta ready?" is a fair question to ask. The guy is on the damn roster.
RE: I thought the attraction to Lauletta  
81_Great_Dane : 11/6/2018 3:45 pm : link
In comment 14167029 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
is that he played in a pro-style system in college? Shurmur's just making it up as he goes along.
I don't think "he's from a small school" contradicts anything about him being from a pro-style offense. It's a huge leap in level of competition and speed of the game.

However, it's not like they're prepped him to start in any event. He's been #3...
RE: I don't get it at all...  
JonC : 11/6/2018 3:47 pm : link
In comment 14167179 NYG07 said:
Quote:
I just posted a direct quote from Shurmur right before the season started that he would be very comfortable playing Lauletta in the regular season as a rookie. Now he is from a small school and has a lot to learn?

I have no idea what is going on. While I get the notion that Shurmur is trying to save his job, Eli is 4-19 since the start of last year, and they have zero shot at the playoffs. This team is borderline unwatchable as is. I don't see why waiting until they are mathematically eliminated should matter. Just get him ready to play ASAP.


Follow actions, words mean significantly less.
I think  
rocco8112 : 11/6/2018 3:50 pm : link
they think he has a legitimate chance to get hurt. Especially since the Giants love to pass pass pass.

Eli is expendable now and apparently can not be hurt despite taking hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit.

I also do not think they will learn anything. Lauletta will scramble from pressure? We will see, more likely he goes into the concussion protocol or pops a knee. Then guess who comes off bench, punching bag Eli.

I want to see a new QB just to shut everyone up. Although, if they start Kyle and go to power sets and try to run everything through Barkley the team may improve. I just wonder why we have not tried that already with Eli.

RE: RE: What else is new?  
Greg from LI : 11/6/2018 3:50 pm : link
In comment 14167222 Drewcon40 said:
Quote:
Homer - you never know when you need those 3rd string quarterbacks. The 1990 NFC Championship game produced this moment:


Heh....I remember Summerall's reaction to Cavanaugh's one pass attempt: "Whoa...that was a rusty hinge"
I think there is an alarming issue here with developing QBís  
Sean : 11/6/2018 3:51 pm : link
This has been an issue for years now. Lauletta canít crack the active roster but our opponent next year is playing their 3rd string QB off a win when he played a near perfect game?

Itís now been a half season which includes a bye week & Lauletta from a ďpro styleĒ offense is still not close to ready?

Draft players. Develop players. Play them. This is lacking.
In all seriousness,  
Drewcon40 : 11/6/2018 3:52 pm : link
when Lauletta was drafted I must have had NFL network on in the background because the experts lauded the pick. I certainly understand the overreaction and there needs to be some drama but Lauletta being the MVP of the senior bowl and possibly being the steal of the draft at the QB position.
Link - ( New Window )
next week*  
Sean : 11/6/2018 3:52 pm : link
.
RE: RE: I don't get it at all...  
Thegratefulhead : 11/6/2018 4:02 pm : link
In comment 14167227 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 14167179 NYG07 said:


Quote:


I just posted a direct quote from Shurmur right before the season started that he would be very comfortable playing Lauletta in the regular season as a rookie. Now he is from a small school and has a lot to learn?

I have no idea what is going on. While I get the notion that Shurmur is trying to save his job, Eli is 4-19 since the start of last year, and they have zero shot at the playoffs. This team is borderline unwatchable as is. I don't see why waiting until they are mathematically eliminated should matter. Just get him ready to play ASAP.



Follow actions, words mean significantly less.
That is one my mantras JonC. It goes along with follow the money.
Anyone listen to the press conference?  
Eli Wilson : 11/6/2018 4:11 pm : link
The question about Lauletta was a general question and I think that Dottino combined it with the Tanney comment to make it seem like they went together. He was just saying that coming from a small school that he had a lot of work to put in to get ready, which he is doing.

Listening, I sort of got the impression that Lauletta would be playing this year, just not as early as other rookie QBs may be able to play.

On another note, it looks like Brown may start this week on the OL.

Remind Shurmur...  
bw in dc : 11/6/2018 4:20 pm : link
that Carson Wentz also went to a 1-AA school - ND State.

Not suggesting Lauletta has Wentz's skills, but the Bison and the Spiders essentially played the same competition.
I just dont understand the need  
gmen9892 : 11/6/2018 5:30 pm : link
To rush a 4th Round QB into a bad situation just because us as fans need to get a look at him. Will we know any less if he plays the last 3-4 games this season? The kid isn't ready yet clearly, and that doesn't make him a "wasted pick" or a "bust". Coming from Richmond on a team that never played in any big time games to the NFL is a big jump.

Some of you really need to relax. This team isn't going anywhere this year and at no point did Shurmur say Lauletta was never going to get into a game the rest of the season. Shurmur intimated that he talked to Eli, and who knows, maybe they have a plan that all of us don't know about. Shurmur is not obligated to tell any of us what was discussed, so instead, let's all freak out about rushing our 4th round rookie into a bad situation that is more than likely set up for him to fail.

Also, comparing Lauletta to the likes of Wentz is also absurd. There is a reason one of those guys was a Top 3 pick and the other was drafted in the 4th round. Developmental QBs get drafted later, not in the Top 3. There is clearly a difference in talent level.
Also comparing ND State to Richmond  
gmen9892 : 11/6/2018 5:51 pm : link
Is like comparing Ohio State to Rutgers. Yes, these teams played the same competition, but ND State is a perennial powerhouse in the FCS and is constantly playing (and beating) the best of the best. Richmond has gone through 3 coaches since Lauletta was there and wasn't near the level of stability or success as the ND State program.

Again, there is a reason why Wentz was the #2 pick and Lauletta wasn't drafted until Round 4. Shurmur saw something in Lauletta that could be coached up, so let him coach him up. Don't jump to conclusions 8 games into a guys career because of last year and because Eli/Offensive Line didn't work out.
You start Manning because he gives you the best chance to win  
HomerJones45 : 11/6/2018 6:03 pm : link
that's why you play the game. It is one thing to ask the other players to sacrifice their bodies for something and an entirely different matter to ask them to sacrifice for nothing.

Lauletta isn't the future, he's just as likely to go out there and be our version of Peterman, and everyone on the team knows it. So you go out there and try and win, which is something anyway except to that wretched group of individuals who advocate "tanking".
RE: Also comparing ND State to Richmond  
bw in dc : 11/6/2018 6:18 pm : link
In comment 14167383 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
Is like comparing Ohio State to Rutgers. Yes, these teams played the same competition, but ND State is a perennial powerhouse in the FCS and is constantly playing (and beating) the best of the best. Richmond has gone through 3 coaches since Lauletta was there and wasn't near the level of stability or success as the ND State program.

Again, there is a reason why Wentz was the #2 pick and Lauletta wasn't drafted until Round 4. Shurmur saw something in Lauletta that could be coached up, so let him coach him up. Don't jump to conclusions 8 games into a guys career because of last year and because Eli/Offensive Line didn't work out.


Uh, Richmond plays in the CAA. Are you going to suggest the CAA is inferior to the MVFC? The CAA has at time sent 5 teams to the FCS playoffs. The currently have 5 teams in the top 25. Richmond went back in 2015. Madison has been in the title for two straight years. It's a kick ass conference.

And I'm not comparing Lauletta to Wentz. I'm comparing their situations. 1-AA is excellent football and really shouldn't be this negative factor Shurmur is making it out to be...
RE: You start Manning because he gives you the best chance to win  
arcarsenal : 11/6/2018 6:28 pm : link
In comment 14167395 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
that's why you play the game. It is one thing to ask the other players to sacrifice their bodies for something and an entirely different matter to ask them to sacrifice for nothing.

Lauletta isn't the future, he's just as likely to go out there and be our version of Peterman, and everyone on the team knows it. So you go out there and try and win, which is something anyway except to that wretched group of individuals who advocate "tanking".


He gives us such a "good chance to win" that we've won just 4 times in his last 20+ starts.

The winning% almost can't possibly be any worse with Lauletta.

Winning 1 or 2 of the last 8 games with Eli does absolutely nothing for the Giants now or in the future. And it also ensures that we still haven't a damn clue about whether or not Lauletta is worth considering as a starter next year.

Putting a Herm Edwards face on right now and playing to win the game is an exercise in futility. We aren't winning games because we suck. That's not going to change. Not this year.
RE: RE: You want to activate 3 QBs  
xtian : 11/6/2018 6:42 pm : link
In comment 14167004 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In comment 14166988 antdog24 said:


Quote:


on gameday? Who do you sit?



FYI - other teams (i.e., Saints) activate 3 QBs.
Not saying we should, just that it's not unheard of.


yeah, because one of their QBs is mr. gadget!
RE: RE: If Lauletta being from a small school was a problem, why draft him?  
NYG07 : 11/6/2018 7:20 pm : link
In comment 14167183 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14167003 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Christ this team fucking sucks.



QB is not RB or WR. Goff was from Cal, he sucked last year. Wentz was surrounded by a Super Bowl team, it as easier.


I know you meant Goff sucked as a rookie, not last year. Yet look at the jump he made in year 2 last year. I am in no way comparing the two, but the point is, you get better by playing. Yes the O-line is bad, but lets not discount the fact that Lauletta would have Odell Beckham to throw to, and Saquon Barkley to hand off to.

We know he will struggle. Throwing him out there for the last game or two will prove nothing. We need to see a larger sample size to see how he improves and if he has a future. What is wrong with that? Continuing to trot Eli out there is just wasting more time.
RE: RE: If Lauletta being from a small school was a problem, why draft him?  
MookGiants : 11/6/2018 7:25 pm : link
In comment 14167183 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14167003 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Christ this team fucking sucks.



You are getting tedious. Relax. They suck. No amount of hand wringing or complaining about every least little thing is going to matter one iota this year.

QB is not RB or WR. Goff was from Cal, he sucked last year. Wentz was surrounded by a Super Bowl team, it as easier.


On what planet did Goff suck last year?
The only thing worse than the QB strategies being implemented  
Jimmy Googs : 11/6/2018 8:06 pm : link
by the Giants over the last few years are the ones I read on this thread.

We are a ridiculous losing team. We are wading around the pool of bottom feeding teams of the NFL for most of this past decade. We continue to make decisions based upon whether we are mathematically eliminated versus what is good or even practical for the future of the franchise. We draft players in the middle to late rounds that have been absolute garbage or like other teams come with a high chance of failure.

Yet we want to hide behind some risk that our 4th round QB will be damaged if we put him when not fully ready??

How about we call a spade a spade. We suck at drafting players and most likely suck at developing and coaching players to be ready for game time readiness.

We are the opposite of ďnext man upĒ. Moreso...who is up?

Generally speaking...we suck at this and everything these players, coaches and front office execute on should be questioned.

In my opinion...
So Jimmy,  
Doomster : 11/7/2018 7:32 am : link
is it over?
The good news is there  
Jimmy Googs : 11/7/2018 8:24 am : link
is only upside from here...
Perhaps  
crick n NC : 11/7/2018 8:46 am : link
It's more difficult to evaluate a player that may not be ready for the NFL, at least under these circumstances.
RE: Perhaps  
jcn56 : 11/7/2018 10:03 am : link
In comment 14167728 crick n NC said:
Quote:
It's more difficult to evaluate a player that may not be ready for the NFL, at least under these circumstances.


I don't think the majority of complaints are over the fact that the Giants haven't inserted Lauletta in the lineup.

Most of them are about the fact that he's still behind Tanney, who has exactly 0% of a future with the Giants. He was a poor signing at best, and the intention was to have him step in to maintain a winning campaign if Eli were hurt. With 0% chance of that happening as well, why he continues to hold a roster spot and take practice snaps over Lauletta defies any kind of logic.
I really think this is about handling Eli with kid gloves  
Chef : 11/7/2018 10:22 am : link
and sending him off in a good way... which is not necessarily good for the team.
RE: I really think this is about handling Eli with kid gloves  
ron mexico : 11/7/2018 10:36 am : link
In comment 14167864 Chef said:
Quote:
and sending him off in a good way... which is not necessarily good for the team.


I think its a large part this.

Also 8 games is a lot, if they make the move now and KL is a disaster ala N Peterman can they really go back to Eli at that point?
RE: RE: I really think this is about handling Eli with kid gloves  
jcn56 : 11/7/2018 10:43 am : link
In comment 14167881 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14167864 Chef said:


Quote:


and sending him off in a good way... which is not necessarily good for the team.



I think its a large part this.

Also 8 games is a lot, if they make the move now and KL is a disaster ala N Peterman can they really go back to Eli at that point?


If you make it very clear that you're not benching Eli for performance, but that you want to see if you have anything in Lauletta, I'm not sure why you'd have a hard time going back. It's no secret to anyone - not the rest of the NFL, not the fans - that Eli isn't going to play forever, and that the Giants need to find a successor.

Much more difficult to make that claim when you're benching a young QB for Nathan Peterman.
the problem with that is that the League expects you to  
ron mexico : 11/7/2018 10:47 am : link
put your best foot forward each week.

And Mara as a member of the competition committee probably takes that standard to a higher level.

If you go out and state that you are not playing the guy who gives you the best chance to win you can be treading on thin ice in that regards.

RE: the problem with that is that the League expects you to  
jcn56 : 11/7/2018 10:51 am : link
In comment 14167902 ron mexico said:
Quote:
put your best foot forward each week.

And Mara as a member of the competition committee probably takes that standard to a higher level.

If you go out and state that you are not playing the guy who gives you the best chance to win you can be treading on thin ice in that regards.


They're 1-7 with Eli in there. I don't think this would immediately sound the tank alarm. Worst case scenario, you find out Lauletta's a bum after two games and you can move him back.

I don't even think he should get a game or two - but why he's not getting the majority of the snaps in practice at this point is beyond me. He's not even ready for that? If that's the case, then he's not even useful as a backup QB, and was a wasted 4th round pick.

As far as Eli goes - Chef's point is interesting, but what is their plan for Eli right now? If there's a chance he's stepping down or being cut at the end of the year, then you'd imagine he starts all the games, letting him wrap up his tenure with the team. If he's already decided himself that he's had enough, you'd imagine the Giants would announce that, to give the fans a chance at seeing him one last time before he hangs them up.
RE: RE: I really think this is about handling Eli with kid gloves  
AcesUp : 11/7/2018 10:54 am : link
In comment 14167881 ron mexico said:
Quote:


Also 8 games is a lot, if they make the move now and KL is a disaster ala N Peterman can they really go back to Eli at that point?


This last point is why I'm ok holding off a little bit. There's 8 games left, thats a lot of season and a lot of media press conferences. If the rookie small school project is a dumpster fire out of the gate, which is more of a likelihood than not given what he has to work with...then what? You white knuckle it for half a season with the kid? Do you go back to Eli? I'm okay waiting a little bit.

However, if he doesn't get a couple of starts before this season is out then Giants management deserves absolutely everything that comes their way. There really is zero reason to ride out the status quo the entire season. Not one logical reason.
He would have to bench Eli to do this  
ron mexico : 11/7/2018 10:55 am : link
"I don't even think he should get a game or two - but why he's not getting the majority of the snaps in practice at this point is beyond me. He's not even ready for that?"

Eli stated last year that the starting QB should get all(the bulk) the work to prepare for the game. Yes I'm reading between the lines but I don't think Eli would be cool with going into the game with even less prep than they can squeeze in now.
RE: He would have to bench Eli to do this  
jcn56 : 11/7/2018 10:57 am : link
In comment 14167911 ron mexico said:
Quote:
"I don't even think he should get a game or two - but why he's not getting the majority of the snaps in practice at this point is beyond me. He's not even ready for that?"

Eli stated last year that the starting QB should get all(the bulk) the work to prepare for the game. Yes I'm reading between the lines but I don't think Eli would be cool with going into the game with even less prep than they can squeeze in now.


Sorry, that wasn't clear - what I meant to write was the majority of the backup snaps. Why he's splitting time with Tanney in that regard is beyond me. Can't have him get the practice snaps that Eli's due, that would never work.
Tanney  
AcesUp : 11/7/2018 10:57 am : link
I also think we're being way too dismissive of Tanney as an option to come in. What's the point of rostering a guy that has seen action in exactly 1 NFL game if you're not even willing to give him a look in a lost season?
I dont think the backups get much work at all  
ron mexico : 11/7/2018 10:58 am : link
.
relevant article on back up QB  
ron mexico : 11/7/2018 11:04 am : link
"I do the same thing I've been doing all year preparation-wise," Nassib said. "It's just now I get a couple more throws in at practice, which is a little more helpful for me. I got a couple of reps in there early in the week."

How many reps?

"You lose count," Nassib said -- not because the number is so large but because it is so small. "It's the kind of plays that he's already had a lot of reps in and he already has a good feel for. He won't miss much by not taking them."
Link - ( New Window )
This clueless f'n org  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 11/7/2018 11:35 am : link
Put in the kid already and develop him. It's unbearable watching a class act and gamer like Eli getting killed out their by this inept org.
RE: Tanney  
bw in dc : 11/7/2018 11:46 am : link
In comment 14167915 AcesUp said:
Quote:
I also think we're being way too dismissive of Tanney as an option to come in. What's the point of rostering a guy that has seen action in exactly 1 NFL game if you're not even willing to give him a look in a lost season?


Really? He's a stop gap roster fill at best.

Frankly, I can't think of a person on the roster less relevant to this team's future than Tanney.
bw  
AcesUp : 11/7/2018 11:57 am : link
He's been in 1 game. What is his purpose on the roster then? It's not like he's this weathered veteran backup that we needed on the roster in case of injury. They obviously saw something in him that they like, throw him out there vs. live bullets. I'm not saying it's even remotely likely but there are plenty of examples of guys with his profile shining when given the opportunity.

RE: the problem with that is that the League expects you to  
K-Gun? Pop-Gun : 11/7/2018 12:01 pm : link
In comment 14167902 ron mexico said:
Quote:
put your best foot forward each week.

And Mara as a member of the competition committee probably takes that standard to a higher level.

If you go out and state that you are not playing the guy who gives you the best chance to win you can be treading on thin ice in that regards.


That would be a weak shield against starting someone new on a 1-7 team.
RE: bw  
bw in dc : 11/7/2018 12:39 pm : link
In comment 14167984 AcesUp said:
Quote:
He's been in 1 game. What is his purpose on the roster then? It's not like he's this weathered veteran backup that we needed on the roster in case of injury. They obviously saw something in him that they like, throw him out there vs. live bullets. I'm not saying it's even remotely likely but there are plenty of examples of guys with his profile shining when given the opportunity.


Like I said, he's a stop gap - an "experienced, cheap vet ($550K) if Eli were to get hurt. The guy is 30. And in all likelihood he's been pretty vetted.

I guess you have a point, but I'd much rather see what we have in our 4th round investment who is only 22.
RE: the problem with that is that the League expects you to  
Jimmy Googs : 11/7/2018 12:57 pm : link
In comment 14167902 ron mexico said:
Quote:
put your best foot forward each week.

And Mara as a member of the competition committee probably takes that standard to a higher level.

If you go out and state that you are not playing the guy who gives you the best chance to win you can be treading on thin ice in that regards.


Unfortunately, the differential between the best and worst chance of winning during the first half of the season is only 1 game.

So I think we should risk it...
bw  
AcesUp : 11/7/2018 1:02 pm : link
I would prefer seeing Lauletta as well. With the season in the toilet and 8 games left I don't see a reason why we can't see both. If you're deadset on moving on from Eli, which I think the Giants need to be shortly, then you throw Tanney out there for a couple of games to see what he has and buy a little more time for Lauletta.
RE: bw  
NYG07 : 11/7/2018 1:42 pm : link
In comment 14168035 AcesUp said:
Quote:
I would prefer seeing Lauletta as well. With the season in the toilet and 8 games left I don't see a reason why we can't see both. If you're deadset on moving on from Eli, which I think the Giants need to be shortly, then you throw Tanney out there for a couple of games to see what he has and buy a little more time for Lauletta.


I would have no issue with that plan. However I worry that the fan base would erupt again much like the Geno Smith start last year. I think it might have to be Eli or Lauletta.
Personally, I would have taken the last 2 weeks to prepare Lauletta  
Matt M. : 11/7/2018 8:51 pm : link
and see how it goes Monday night. I am not fully convinced that wouldn't have been the plan had he not gotten arrested. I think one thing being lost is not simply that he was arrested or that it was for reckless driving. It is that he was driving like that on at least 2 days in a row because he was late for practice/meetings. At the very least, there were tons of rumors about him potentially starting and this was the way he handles it?

Regardless of whether he starts or not, at 1-7 Tanney still being on the roster at the expense of any other player is obscene. Just like last year with Smith, at this point he serves 0 purpose. He isn't in their long term plans and he isn't in their short-term (next year) either, as a starter. So, why the fuck is he even on the roster, let alone the #2 QB?

As for Shurmer's comments, they are ridiculous. At this point, the only reason/excuse is simply that he is not ready. That is your judgement call. But, inserting his 1-AA experience should be irrelevant at this point, as they elected to draft him as a potential for the future. At 1-7, their future starts now.
What is going on here?  
Doomster : 11/7/2018 11:20 pm : link
Regardless of whether he starts or not, at 1-7 Tanney still being on the roster at the expense of any other player is obscene. Just like last year with Smith, at this point he serves 0 purpose. He isn't in their long term plans and he isn't in their short-term (next year) either, as a starter. So, why the fuck is he even on the roster, let alone the #2 QB?


A precise, intelligent paragraph? there is hope for BBI!
RE: What is going on here?  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/8/2018 12:04 am : link
In comment 14168542 Doomster said:
Quote:
Regardless of whether he starts or not, at 1-7 Tanney still being on the roster at the expense of any other player is obscene. Just like last year with Smith, at this point he serves 0 purpose. He isn't in their long term plans and he isn't in their short-term (next year) either, as a starter. So, why the fuck is he even on the roster, let alone the #2 QB?


A precise, intelligent paragraph? there is hope for BBI!

True hope will only be achieved when you learn how to use the reply/quote feature.
RE: RE: What is going on here?  
Diver_Down : 11/8/2018 6:27 am : link
In comment 14168554 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14168542 Doomster said:


Quote:


Regardless of whether he starts or not, at 1-7 Tanney still being on the roster at the expense of any other player is obscene. Just like last year with Smith, at this point he serves 0 purpose. He isn't in their long term plans and he isn't in their short-term (next year) either, as a starter. So, why the fuck is he even on the roster, let alone the #2 QB?


A precise, intelligent paragraph? there is hope for BBI!


True hope will only be achieved when you learn how to use the reply/quote feature.


I've given up on Doom. It isn't that hard and it has been brought to his attention on numerous occasions. At this point, I just assume he is trolling us by continuing to do so.
RE: Personally, I would have taken the last 2 weeks to prepare Lauletta  
ron mexico : 11/8/2018 6:35 am : link
In comment 14168423 Matt M. said:
Quote:
and see how it goes Monday night

.


Players get the bye week off. They dont hold practice
RE: RE: Personally, I would have taken the last 2 weeks to prepare Lauletta  
Diver_Down : 11/8/2018 6:44 am : link
In comment 14168584 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14168423 Matt M. said:


Quote:


and see how it goes Monday night

.



Players get the bye week off. They dont hold practice


Many fans don't realize that clubs are not allowed to have contact with players (except to receive medical treatment) during the bye week. The players must be given time off and not compelled to do any team activity. Case in Point - Jamon Brown was claimed on waivers during the Bye. He showed up on Thursday and was only allowed to get the playbook. He returned to LA and had to fly back on Sunday so he could be here Monday morning. He wouldn't have been allowed to hang around the facility and get orientated during the prescribed day's off.
...  
christian : 11/8/2018 7:03 am : link
If Lualetta cannot ooerate the offense, seriously what is the point? Would anyone be surprised if a rookie 4th round pick from Richmond isn't ready?

Imagine the version of Webb we saw in the pre-season and now imagine that guy starting in place of Manning last year. What was that going to help.

When you bring in the back up, you need to either increase your chances of winning or really learn something about your team. If you have a trainwreck at QB you get nothing.
RE: ...  
Go Terps : 11/8/2018 1:14 pm : link
In comment 14168592 christian said:
Quote:
If Lualetta cannot ooerate the offense, seriously what is the point? Would anyone be surprised if a rookie 4th round pick from Richmond isn't ready?

Imagine the version of Webb we saw in the pre-season and now imagine that guy starting in place of Manning last year. What was that going to help.

When you bring in the back up, you need to either increase your chances of winning or really learn something about your team. If you have a trainwreck at QB you get nothing.


My question then is - why can't Lauletta operate the offense?

The guy is the third string QB. We've seen scenarios where the third string QB is forced into action...we'll actually be seeing a third string QB this week in San Francisco.

If Lauletta is occupying a roster spot as the third string QB, why isn't he ready to play? Why isn't there an offensive scheme or package with which he feels comfortable? What if Eli and Tanney get hurt?

There are 53 spots on a roster - shouldn't all 53 be able to play if called upon? If they aren't it seems to me like something isn't being done correctly.
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 11/8/2018 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14169068 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14168592 christian said:


Quote:


If Lualetta cannot ooerate the offense, seriously what is the point? Would anyone be surprised if a rookie 4th round pick from Richmond isn't ready?

Imagine the version of Webb we saw in the pre-season and now imagine that guy starting in place of Manning last year. What was that going to help.

When you bring in the back up, you need to either increase your chances of winning or really learn something about your team. If you have a trainwreck at QB you get nothing.



My question then is - why can't Lauletta operate the offense?

The guy is the third string QB. We've seen scenarios where the third string QB is forced into action...we'll actually be seeing a third string QB this week in San Francisco.

If Lauletta is occupying a roster spot as the third string QB, why isn't he ready to play? Why isn't there an offensive scheme or package with which he feels comfortable? What if Eli and Tanney get hurt?

There are 53 spots on a roster - shouldn't all 53 be able to play if called upon? If they aren't it seems to me like something isn't being done correctly.


Do you suspect Webb, based on what you saw from him this pre-season could have operated the Giants offense in December of last year?

There's a major difference between 'should' and 'is.'
Depends on what you mean by run the O  
ron mexico : 11/8/2018 1:54 pm : link
I think he could have received the play calls, communicated that in the huddle and execute the plays to the best of his ability, probably making a bunch of mistakes and bad throws, while gaining valuable experience in the process.





I thought Webb couldn't play  
Go Terps : 11/8/2018 1:56 pm : link
I thought he was a questionable draft pick based on video I'd seen of him...he looked like a mechanical disaster that simply did not know how to throw a football on a professional level. That was backed up by his preseason work - the guy simply is not a pro football player. I think Reese drafted him for the same reason he drafted some of his other mistakes: because he looked like a football player.

Lauletta doesn't look like that to me. He isn't the physical specimen Webb is, but he knows how to throw the ball. There's something to work with there, while with Webb there never was.

Lauletta:



Webb:



One guy knows how to throw, the other guy is Webb.

We have something to work with in Lauletta. No one is saying he's Drew Brees, but he doesn't have to be. He should, however, be prepared to play. If he is not that is a fireable failing of the coaching staff.
Really very laughable that at 1-7 any allegedly knowledgeable  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/8/2018 2:05 pm : link
person would utter the phrase "he gives us the best chance to win". That's an efficient way to identify yourself as a person who doesn't appear to know what he or she is talking about.
I know Eli has played poorly  
ron mexico : 11/8/2018 3:24 pm : link
but he definitely still gives up the best chance to win.

Its impossible to prove until we see KL in a real game but its a pretty safe assumption.

and for the record, I am in favor of giving KL meaningful playing time this year.

The problem with it is  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/8/2018 4:21 pm : link
when you're 1-7, you should be looking at the bigger picture rather than playing percentages. Looking for that extra edge to win in the margins is for teams that are competitive.

This team wins games as presently constructed 12% of the time. The front office already started planning for next year by trading and shopping their best bargaining chips, so why be concerned with whether Lauletta drags down that 12% to an 8%?
thats a different argument  
ron mexico : 11/8/2018 4:37 pm : link
don't go around calling other posters stupid then drastically move the goal posts

the Giants owners make a fortune every season  
Jersey55 : 11/9/2018 5:05 pm : link
whether we twin or lose so they actually don't have to do anything and the profits will stay the same and there is no gun to their head to do anything but make tons more profits......
If the organization plans to sit Eli...  
EricJ : 11/9/2018 5:09 pm : link
and roll with our #2 QB (dont even remember his name) then they truly are incompetent. It would be a repeat of last year's debacle putting Geno in.
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