NFT: NFT: BBI Chefs: Boston Butt

but usually on a smoker. My oven advice to you is as follows...

Season it any way you want but cook it extremely low and slow at 225 degrees and preferably in a dutch oven. Huge difference.

A good temp for a sliced but very tender pork roast is 180. Pulled starts at 195 and preferably you go over 200. The shoulder is very forgiving so the fat will keep it from getting dry, just remove it from the oven and let it sit for 30 minutes before cutting.

I love to make it both ways, my kids love the BBQ pulled pork, but my parents and in-laws prefer Mediterranean styled roast pork with potatoes. When I roast, I tend to go with the picnic cut so I'll get the heavy, crispy skin fat cap on top.

As for times, forget the clock and watch the thermometer closely. Get one that can stay in the meat and had a remote probe so you're not opening and closing the oven often. Good luck!

thank you, but I can foresee difficulty getting a 10-12 pound roast into a Dutch oven (Le Creuset is closest I have). So, if I put it in a roasting pan and cover it, won't that affect the outward 'roasted' effect?

By the way, in the OP, all those weird '@#730' that is BBI's weirdness in transcribing the degree symbol. wtf with that?

And let it roll low and slow

Quote:

A good temp for a sliced but very tender pork roast is 180. Pulled starts at 195 and preferably you go over 200. The shoulder is very forgiving so the fat will keep it from getting dry, just remove it from the oven and let it sit for 30 minutes before cutting. ...When I roast, I tend to go with the picnic cut so I'll get the heavy, crispy skin fat cap on top. As for times, forget the clock and watch the thermometer closely. Get one that can stay in the meat and had a remote probe so you're not opening and closing the oven often. Good luck!

Thanks for this, 180 confirms what some of the comments said re. target temp. I'm looking for a sliceable outcome.
You're suggesting uncovered, while Eric is suggesting Dutch oven.

Also, thinking of doing the roast the day before, letting it cool, and re-heating on Thursday. Risk is drying out the roast, but there is no way I can have our main oven and the wall oven cooking bird and shoulder at same time, I'll need to triage. As for one of those stay-in-oven thermometers, years ago I tried one from WmsSonoma, a disaster to use. I've been using a ThermoWorks instant read, very good, but it can't stay in the oven.

thank you....so 300 is probably too high, and in any event 300 for 7-8 hours gets me way above 145 (too low a temp anyway), so the recipe is way off base. But reviewers all raved about the Aleppo pepper (+ oregano/kosher salt/pepper/brown sugar) rub and vinaigrette. So I will rub!

pulled pork consistency, you want it sliceable. I haven't made bone-in. I've also seen various cook temps and finish temps. My last one went to 185 and was too dry, but I seemed to be having some kind of problem with my oven temp or thermometer, cause it stayed about 170 for 2 hours. I liked the result of this real simple recipe from Aaron McCargo, but I'm going to check it at around 170 next time.

is going to braise it, not roast it. You're cooking in a steam environment. I'd only do that if you want it falling apart tender like pulled pork

check on that, definitely sliceable, so 180 seems about right. Covered or open?

Yeah, if the probe was registering a static 170 for two hours, a red flag for sure. It is a bit frustrating how, e.g., on the outdoor grill, just a slight shift in the probe's position in the meat, even when centered in the thickness of the cut, results in very different readings.

For sous vide

Ha! I know there is a cabal of sv fanatics here. At some time, in the future, after the Holidays, I will get up to speed and equipment, but not yet, for week after next. (:

This is a tough cut that should be slow cooked on a low temp. for best results. I like to use a rack so that I can keep the meat out of the fat that renders off.

In comment 14170597 ColHowPepper said:

Quote:

check on that, definitely sliceable, so 180 seems about right. Covered or open? Yeah, if the probe was registering a static 170 for two hours, a red flag for sure. It is a bit frustrating how, e.g., on the outdoor grill, just a slight shift in the probe's position in the meat, even when centered in the thickness of the cut, results in very different readings.

I'd go uncovered. The outside should get a nice crust at 450, but if it looks like it's getting too done on the outside, just loosely tent with some tin foil. I used a different recipe/lower temp with veggies in the pan on the one that got overcooked. The time I did Big Daddy's method came out great. As far as sous vide, what I'm finding is with fattier cuts, like a pork shoulder or ribeye, I'm going with roasting/drilling. I think the fat comes out tastier with a better melt. For something like a pork chop/loin or beef tenderloin, I'm sticking with the sous vide.

I've cooked / smoked a ton of pork butts on my BGE. I usually do a low n' slow but have done of a bunch of "turbo" cooks too (higher temps for quicker eat time). It grabs enough smoke in a few hours to give it a nice kiss. For sliced pork butt, I usually have a butcher slice it up for pork steaks and cook it that way. It's delicious! You can de-bone it and slice it into thick steaks yourself depending on your knife skills.

I have also turbo cooked a shoulder to 145-160 for slicing (lower end way better). It is firm enough to do thick slices but I definitely prefer it being sliced prior to cooking as it creates a nice crust on the outer sides of the steak.

Good luck! Sounds like a good night of eating!

You can cover it for a stretch if you want - that'll help speed along cooking, but for at least half of it's ride you want it uncovered so you get a nice, tasty bark.

Interesting use of Aleppo - it's got a nice kick to it. Mind if I ask what other spices they're using in addition to it?

In comment 14170613 Bill L said:

Quote:

For sous vide

I do use it sometimes, but mostly for ease. I don't think it yields a much more tender result because there's so much damn fat in there.

It is useful to let it spin in the SV for about 12 hours, then finish it off in the oven for the last 2-3 to get a nice finihs.

jcn: rub is
garlic (4 lg cloves, grated)
kosher salt 1/4 cup, but I think should be adj. for # lbs
Aleppo peppers 1/4 cup (avail. Penzeys)
lt brown sugar 1/4 cup

vinaigrette:
2 lg shallots, fine chop
1/3 cup rw vinegar (a commenter suggested cider vin in lieu)
1/4 cup flat leaf parsley, coarse chip
2 TB chop fresh marjoram or oregano
2 TB Aleppo pepper (for both, if Aleppo not avail., crush red pep flakes)
2 TB olive oil
sugar 3/4 Tsp
S&P to taste

Recipe way off on temp & time, in OP
uncovered definitely way to go, thanks

So, in your Turbo cooking, you found low end (i.e., 145 degrees) came out better?

Steaks sliced from the butt sound nice for a weekday quick..er roast pork.

I'd love to see a crust, but thinking low and slow will probably not generate much of one, if any. And you didn't mean cooking temp at 450 degrees except at the end??

When I've done a standing rib roast, low and slow so the inside is all nice and pink (wife complains bitterly that it's 'raw', what does she know?), to get a nice browned/roasted appearance to the roast, I've browned the roast on high heat, stove top, to get some crustiness and color to it before putting in the oven, and that works well enough.

I pulled it out at 165 and let it sit for 30 mins. Temp got to about 171 and it was the perfect tenderness for slicing and still really moist at that temp

(I had great hopes for him....): ) Good suggestion on the rack. And you're giving me an idea, maybe to use some of the fat when basting the bird on Thursday, since my plan is to cook the pork shoulder roast the day before to clear oven time and space.

so, that was just your every day eating roast?? lol

Question: so taking out of oven at 165 (and letting it sit), what was the weight of that cut? I know it shouldn't matter, but smaller cuts do cook a bit differently.

And I know I'm creating a problem for myself by doing the roast the day before and then bringing it back to temp. So I may err on the side of a bit lower temp for the original cooking, before the re-heating.

after years and years of ignoring and then forgetting it, finally saw 'A River Runs Through It' last week...great pic, poignant snapshot of an America hardly recognizable any more. I spent a bit of time in and around Missoula way back when, not quite as far back as Norman McLean, but in the '60s.

In comment 14170595 Bill in UT said:

Quote:

pulled pork consistency, you want it sliceable. I haven't made bone-in. I've also seen various cook temps and finish temps. My last one went to 185 and was too dry, but I seemed to be having some kind of problem with my oven temp or thermometer, cause it stayed about 170 for 2 hours. I liked the result of this real simple recipe from Aaron McCargo, but I'm going to check it at around 170 next time.

Nothing wrong with either, that's just the stall that happens with every boston butt when cooking. It's just breaking down the connective tissue at that point, totally normal. You want that, and to get on the other side of the stall.

Anyway I wouldn't go that low on the temp. Oven cooking, go 260 up to 275 if need be. Once you are done with your cook, I would rest that butt before cutting into it. I put mine wrapped in foil in a cooler. Wrap the the foiled meat in the cooler in towels. Let it rest for at least an hour. This is really going to help with the tenderness and allow it to retain its juices. Don't worry, you can set it in there and forget it. Even if you pull it after 2 hours or more it will still be pretty hot.

not that is an interesting take, a stall due to breakdown of connective tissue, albeit I don't know why temp would stall due to that stage of the physical change in tissue.

And you're comfortable with higher cook temp, higher than low n slow.

And that amount of 'resting time' and your method, not sure that'll help me with the day before plan, but more to chew on...just when I thought my coordinates were set!

In comment 14170718 ColHowPepper said:

Quote:

I'd love to see a crust, but thinking low and slow will probably not generate much of one, if any. And you didn't mean cooking temp at 450 degrees except at the end?? When I've done a standing rib roast, low and slow so the inside is all nice and pink (wife complains bitterly that it's 'raw', what does she know?), to get a nice browned/roasted appearance to the roast, I've browned the roast on high heat, stove top, to get some crustiness and color to it before putting in the oven, and that works well enough.

Probably about 1/2 hour at 450 will give you a crust, maybe less time if done at the end. If you do it at the start, though, it'll still allow you to lower oven temp and cook to desired meat temp without any problem. If you do the sear at the end, the high oven temp might carry you over the meat temp you want. Also,I believe the rule is that the larger the piece of meat, the more carry-over cooking it will do when you remove it from oven.

In comment 14170726 ColHowPepper said:

Quote:

so, that was just your every day eating roast?? lol Question: so taking out of oven at 165 (and letting it sit), what was the weight of that cut? I know it shouldn't matter, but smaller cuts do cook a bit differently. And I know I'm creating a problem for myself by doing the roast the day before and then bringing it back to temp. So I may err on the side of a bit lower temp for the original cooking, before the re-heating.

LOL...I was craving one of those Cuban sandwiches from the movie "Chef". I marinated it the day before in a Mojo marinade. It was 5lbs. I cooked it at 350 in a roasting pan tented with aluminum foil for about 4:30 hours, then uncovered it and raised the temp to 385 to brown and sear it for 30 mins. The recipe I followed told me to take to 195 and shred it but I wanted it more like a slicing roast not shredded

If it's dry just put it back in until it hits 200 and it is shreddable. Then just shred it and mix in the pan drippings. I always add a little chicken broth and a splash of wine to the drippings if I end up doing this

how we prefer the end result to be. For a butt I want it more like pulled pork. If this was a pork roast then yes uncovered.

He said this was 8-10 lbs so just think about what the difference will be in the center vs closer to the exterior. It could be extremely dry.

Again.. just personal preference.

If you are going slow and low at 225 degrees and shooting for an internal temp of 165 then you may get to a point where it stalls. Not much different than smoking. So, I recommend wrapping/covering it at some point to help drive the temp up without drying it out. Assuming you are going uncovered in a roasting pan

In comment 14170974 montanagiant said:

Quote:

If it's dry just put it back in until it hits 200 and it is shreddable. Then just shred it and mix in the pan drippings. I always add a little chicken broth and a splash of wine to the drippings if I end up doing this

Now Eric has me worried about the roast being dry farther away from the center, which is a risk always in a roast, the bird as well, esp. the breast.

So, maybe, as an analogue to what you're saying, this may be the cya element of this recipe, the vinaigrette (shallows, Aleppo, rwv, etc.) adding liquid. Hopefully it doesn't 'need' it but just embellishes.

Quote:

If this was a pork roast then yes uncovered.

Yes, for sure, but want it to be sliceable yet tender on the T'giving plate.

Quote:

He said this was 8-10 lbs so just think about what the difference will be in the center vs closer to the exterior. It could be extremely dry. If you are going slow and low at 225 degrees and shooting for an internal temp of 165 then you may get to a point where it stalls. ...So, I recommend wrapping/covering it at some point to help drive the temp up without drying it out.

I hear you and good advice.

first word in reply to jim was *now* not *not*

Bill,

Quote:

If you do the sear at the end, the high oven temp might carry you over the meat temp you want. Also,I believe the rule is that the larger the piece of meat, the more carry-over cooking it will do when you remove it from oven.

For sure agree with this

The good roast I made was a 4 pounder, boneless. I didn't notice how big yours is, you would have to roast at a lower temp to keep the exterior and interior about the same. Here's a recipe from Serious Eats for a cut your size that you might want to look at. Also, sometimes short of totally covering the meat, you can put a pan of water in the oven to keep it moist.

link
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14171050 ColHowPepper said:

Quote:

In comment 14170974 montanagiant said: Quote: If it's dry just put it back in until it hits 200 and it is shreddable. Then just shred it and mix in the pan drippings. I always add a little chicken broth and a splash of wine to the drippings if I end up doing this Now Eric has me worried about the roast being dry farther away from the center, which is a risk always in a roast, the bird as well, esp. the breast. So, maybe, as an analogue to what you're saying, this may be the cya element of this recipe, the vinaigrette (shallows, Aleppo, rwv, etc.) adding liquid. Hopefully it doesn't 'need' it but just embellishes.

Eric is right about low and slow, I covered mine loosely to help keep it moist until around 160 then did the reverse sear on it for 30 mins which brought it up to 165.

Another trick you can try is to inject it if you're worried about being dry in the middle( You want one that has some fat in it so maybe include melted butter in the recipe). But you should have a nice fat cap that will also help keep it moist

I was at around 325 until the reverse sear

Now the 24-hour marinade may play into why it was perfectly moist but I don't think that much though:

Quote:

Ingredients Marinade 3/4 cup extra virgin olive oil 1 cup cilantro / coriander, lightly packed 1 tbsp orange zest 3/4 cup orange juice, fresh 1/2 cup lime juice 1/4 cup mint leaves, lightly packed 8 garlic cloves 1 tbsp fresh oregano leaves, packed (or 1/2 tbsp dried oregano) 2 tsp ground cumin 1 tsp salt 1 tsp black pepper Pork 4 lb / 2 kg pork shoulder, skinless and boneless Mojo Sauce 2 tbsp lime juice 1/4 cup orange juice Salt and pepper Instructions Combine Marinade ingredients in a food processor and blend until the herbs and garlic are finely chopped. Alternatively, you can finely chop/mince the garlic and herbs then mix all ingredients in a bowl. Place in a large ziplock bag with the pork. Place in the fridge overnight (in a bowl, just to be safe). Remove the pork from the Marinade and bring to room temperature. Reserve the Marinade. Preheat oven to 170C/325F. Place the pork on a rack in a roasting dish (or on a couple of onions have, to elevate the pork). Cover with a lid or double layer or foil, slightly tented so it is not pressed tightly against the pork. Place in the oven and bake for 2 hrs 30 minutes. Then remove the foil and return to the oven for a further 30 minutes to brown. (See Note 1 for original roasting direction and times) Remove from the oven and place on a plate, loosely covered with foil. Rest for 20 minutes before serving with the Mojo Sauce on the side. I decorated mine with pan fried slices of oranges and extra cilantro/coriander leaves. Mojo Sauce Place the reserved Marinade, Mojo Sauce ingredients and 2 tbsp of the roasting pan drippings into a small saucepan. Bring to boil and add salt and pepper to taste. You might also want to add more lime juice or even a touch of sugar. Turn the heat down and simmer for 1 minute, then remove from the stove and set aside. Notes 1. I use the same Marinade ingredients as the original recipe from I roast it differently. The method I use is more foolproof and I believe it produces a juicier pork because it is roasted, covered, at a lower temperature for longer. Also it does not require a meat thermometer because the pork is cooked beyond overdone until it is tender. Slow cooking is the traditional way of cooking pork shoulder which is a tougher cut of meat. I also did not roll the pork. Because I didn't have any kitchen string! If you roll it, the pork will require about an additional 20 minutes roasting time (covered). The original recipe called for a 3 1/2lb / 1.75kg boneless pork shoulder. Roll the pork up and tie with a string to form a roll. Roast in a 425F/220C oven for 30 minutes, then reduce the oven temperature to 375F/190C and roast for 1 hour 30 minutes, or until a thermometer inserted into the middle reads 160F/70C. 2. This would be great served with Caribbean Rice and Beans or Coconut Rice (but omit the kaffir lime leaves from this recipe as that is for Asian coconut rice. 3. Make sure you save some pork to make Cuban Sandwiches (Cubanos)! I'll be sharing the recipe on Monday. One of the BEST sandwiches I have ever had in my life! 4. Recipe adapted from Mojo Marinated Pork Shoulder from Food and Wine. The Marinade ingredients are exactly the same. The Mojo Sauce is something I made up (why waste the delicious Marinade??!). And the roasting time and method is slightly different - refer Note 1. 5. I made this recipe using Murray Valley Pork which is a high quality Australian pork you can only get at butchers. If there is ever a time to invest in a great quality roast, it's Easter! It makes such a difference. If you live in Australia, find your closest stockist here. 6. Cook times for different sizes: 2kg/4lb: 2.5 hrs covered, 30 min uncovered 3kg/6lb: 2hrs 50 min covered, 30 min uncovered 4kg/8lb: 3.25 hrs covered, 30 min uncovered

am going to chew on these recipes, with reference to the one I'm going to base the roast on, with variations

It's amazing how much culinary know-how and experience there is on BBI, and in these trying football times, a lot more pleasant to bat around and discuss than gridiron topics!

Was just listening to a snippet on WFAN--and without taking sides in the Great Eli Debate--the host of the 5 o'clock hour (one of the more intelligent sounding than most of the hacks they have now) said, in effect, PLEASE, Giants, make a decision on Lauletta and make it appear that you have a plan instead of continuing to bumble along without a clue

Maple pulled pork
~6lb Pork butt roast
Trim off fat because you want to rub the paste directly on the meat
Paste:
1 tablespoon onion powder
2 tablespoon chili powder
1 tablespoon pepper
1 tablespoon cumin
1 tablespoon paprika
1 teaspoon allspice
1 teaspoon kosher salt
4 tablespoons Grillmates brown sugar bourbon
3 tablespoon vegetable oil

Combine and rub into meat
I put the meat in a big bowl covered in plastic wrap in the fridge over night

Loosely chopped 2 Vidalia onions in bottom of roasting oven
2/3 cup maple syrup
1/3 cup apple cider vinegar
½ cup chicken broth
1 teaspoon kosher salt
1 tablespoon chili powder

Combine and pour over meat in roasting oven
250 for an hour
200 for ~10 hours. It is done when the meat pulls apart easily (about 190 internal temperature)
Might need to add more chicken broth if it all evaporates

When I roast, I tend to go with the picnic cut so I'll get the heavy, crispy skin fat cap on top.

As for times, forget the clock and watch the thermometer closely. Get one that can stay in the meat and had a remote probe so you're not opening and closing the oven often. Good luck! [/quote]

This go picnic basic rub do mine on an old Webber kettle 190 put in a cooler with towels no ice for an nourish slice of pull get 2 they're so cheap so one spicy one sweet and steak or pull so fucking easy i can do it

If using cast iron:

maybe start on stovetop not only to build flavor also so the oven won't have to heat your metal at those low temps for so long.

Not on stovetop long enough to cook the meat at all. Just enough to blast the butt ingredients, carmelize outer edge of extras and heat the cast iron.

Cast iron - no lid.

2. Slice a bit of fat and add your ingredients, not enough to create moisture, just a large pinch of whatever.

3. Cook those together on high temp on stovetop until flavor builds. No lid.

4. Turn off. and drop meat in while still hot. No lid.

5. Let sit again.

6. Throw in oven as above low slow. No top.

sliced, so the pulled pork recipes just make me hungry. LOL.

And I'm not sure if I'm doing pulled pork if I wasn't going to smoke it (which would be my preference) I'd do anything but crock pot.

it's so easy in the crock pot, I don't see why anyone would use a roasting pan or oven.

Slicing, completely different. But I'm also not sure I'd get bone in for slicing. Do people do that?

slow type method, and it retains most of the moisture.

What you're looking for in a roast pork this way is a nice, crispy bark while still having a moist roast otherwise. Very doable with a butt because there's so much fat in there. People roast beef the same way all the time, but that's problematic because there's not as much fat, and the meat can dry out.

I prefer the bone-in for this as well because you get a lot of flavor out of the bone itself, imparted onto the meat nearby. It does monkey with the cooking times though.

And if you roast the picnic, you get a crispy shell of pork skin/fat that is worth eating by itself.

I wouldn't braise it (keep it covered), and I'd start with a blazing hot oven and reduce downward (with my Greek style pork roast I go 450F for the first hour, then kick down to 350F). This gets the fat a head start on rendering, resulting in a crispier bark.

yeah, that stovetop searing is what I do with standing rib roast, to give caramelized look to exterior before going low and slow--~220--for the roast. Works pretty well.

Clearly, there is a broad diversity of approaches to the pork shoulder roast (sliceable or shredded), including the high heat to caramelize/crisp the skin at beginning or end of roasting time.

Yes, this is how I'm going, for better or worse, but moist and rich, I guess both for tradition (T'giving roast) and contra-tradition, a non-bird offering. In the past, for some folks in particular, I've done a civet of wild boar which comes out great, but a lot more prep work, a lot more. So, po' boy (I know, not the same) has been to our table before.

jcn, those cook times in your this morning post are anything but low and slow. How does that affect fat/moisture levels in exterior layers vs. center of the cut?

I'm going with bone-in. In the Serious Eats recipe that Bill in Utah linked yesterday, thank you for that, it goes low and slow, remove from oven, then blast it at 500 for skin crisp.

It also has what seems like a smart way to test doneness: when you can stick a knife or fork through the side and twist it with very little resistance.

I had tried a Wms-Sonoma remote probe many years ago, a disaster. ThermoWorks has one that is pre-paired, and it makes good products.

so good, sear shreds of chicken thighs, add bbq sauce, on bed of lettuce in fresh roasted corn tortillas, some shredded cheddar, chopped tomatoes and onion, jalapeno slices, avocado slices, some sour cream, hot sauce + chopped cilantro...great combo of flavors and textures

sorry to miller the OP, now back to pork shoulder

remarkable

Quote:

There is a point in the cook, about 160 degrees, where they go into a holding pattern and will stay at the same temp for hours. That is the fat and collagen is rendering out and making the meat tender.

my goto is linked below. I usually have a few of them around because I give them away to family and guests. They are very reliable and durable and simple to understand, and they come with a magnet. I keep it on the side of the refrigerator.
Lava tool on Amazon.com - ( New Window )

very similar to the ThermoWorks design. The one I'm getting for the pork shoulder, but will come in handy for the bird, standing rib roasts, etc., is type where the probe can stay in the oven the length of the cooking time without opening oven door, remote temp read, alarm.
ThermoWorks version is called the Smoke.http://marketing.thermoworks.com/t/l?ssid=39965&subscriber_id=bairtnahdtwktupvvgjvgxchgbvibpg&delivery_id=bxlzerclcchmrxyhlvjbmcguqzglbhf&td=bJi4N8MieK2DkTC-73tEjwQN54I2bDXEO8BHPO68hNvpFIyFqfjb5NjXJ6xd5rPclcK78HJcqSp8yAezIBk_QsJuvIuoIUh01Baur6dCsXo-wqSYlp1zB6EPPOEkNXtPqHJH0vWNFXwp8BRocKOjCHQ5-0xXReeckEr8McHeV8ILam1PRBSxrZpqGaM8GGrypoH_wRcJl5UWDJIS4uF0XgU1asu-QTUvNBRNJDkzkRb_O_G_Hx_U1YZVrkHoblouMaKlst6iNrcjs

I went through three of those before I simplified it. Yes it's not automatic, but if you time your cooking windows I find I don't miss the idea of an auto probe at all.

The one I bought years ago, a WmsSonoma, didn't pair with the remote reader/timer, a waste of $, so I went simple also, plain instant reads. But I am confident in ThermoWorks products, so I decided to give the in-oven probe another chance. I'll know by middle of next week. bol to me

btw, a point of interest. I've been using instant read thermometers since my plug-in broke. Just got a new plug- in and used it, as they describe, to calibrate my oven. I'm good in the 350 range, but over 400 degrees, my oven is about 20 degrees under the set temp. So if I want to roast at 425, I've got to set my oven to about 445. They say the average oven can be off quite a bit