and I don't mean to single out these posters, I think it's reflective of the optimism that a lot of BBI had at the time that moving McAdoo along would go a long way towards solving the problem:
Quote:
RE: People will be surprised how much play calling
mfsd : 3/15/2018 9:11 am : link
In comment 13866768 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
Will impact the perception of our ol.
It’s going to be night and day and with the signings yesterday it’s looking up for the offense
Turns out the playcalling and roster changes did absolutely squat for the Giants. The playcalling might be a bigger disappointment than some of these busts.
We hired a coach with a 9-23 record or something Â
Mmmmmmmm, its not safe at all to say that. Saquon, Carter, Hernandez and Hill all look like players and they all will lilely be here longer than Solder, Stewart or, well, Omameh would.
Mmmmmmmm, its not safe at all to say that. Saquon, Carter, Hernandez and Hill all look like players and they all will lilely be here longer than Solder, Stewart or, well, Omameh would.
Carter really hasn't done much. Credit for Hill, saquon and Hernandez were easy.
Mmmmmmmm, its not safe at all to say that. Saquon, Carter, Hernandez and Hill all look like players and they all will lilely be here longer than Solder, Stewart or, well, Omameh would.
Carter really hasn't done much. Credit for Hill, saquon and Hernandez were easy.
Ummmigahd! He is a rookie with 2 sacks in 8 games. But fine. 1 out of his top 4 picks is middling. Jeezus.
I did not contribute in that thread but if I did, I probably would have said that we had no choice but to pay this guy since our prior decisions were so poor.
I did not contribute in that thread but if I did, I probably would have said that we had no choice but to pay this guy since our prior decisions were so poor.
I totally agree Eric. I think judging this GM based on three apparently forced FA moves (Stewart was a halfassed signing to guard against the oft chance that the Browns took Saquon at one EEARLY on before the eemergence of Mayfield for the BBrowns). Yes, Dave Gettleman threw some money at problems.
The key question I have with those doubting his ability as a GM or talent evaluator or whatever else is that we dont know what THE BOSS wanted. Its the same in politics. Shit rolls downhill.
It makes no sense to me the idea that Omameh and Solder, based also in the way their contracts were structured, were in DG's plans for the team beyond 2 years. John wanted to give it a shot with Eli despite DG's misgivings. DG cited the only game that could be a convincing argument for going at it again with Eli (who by the way, was uncuttable this year with a 20 million hit) and then stuck wine corks (Solder, Omameh) in a failing dike to appease his boss.
It didnt work out. We spent a lot of money on players who performed poorly. But to discern this series of moves as those of a bumbling, old, sick man who is hell bent on his agenda rather than a team's success which dictates his legacy is careless, sloppy, and in my mind, doesnt make sense.
Mmmmmmmm, its not safe at all to say that. Saquon, Carter, Hernandez and Hill all look like players and they all will lilely be here longer than Solder, Stewart or, well, Omameh would.
Carter really hasn't done much. Credit for Hill, saquon and Hernandez were easy.
Ummmigahd! He is a rookie with 2 sacks in 8 games. But fine. 1 out of his top 4 picks is middling. Jeezus.
What? It's true. On a team with zero pass rush and plenty of opportunity, he's not been able to do much. Maybe he'll be good in a year or two, or maybe he'll play out his rookie deal and move on like the rest of the failed attempts in the past.
But clearly Hill and Hernandez can play. That we've actually seen.
RE: RE: RE: So 2/5ths of our starting OL have been cut Â
Another on IR. And the worst contract in nfl history.
Good job DG.
How is this, or Solder's contract for that matter the worst contract in NFL history? Or worse than any contract Sam Bradford has signed for that matter? Or Joe Flacco's? Or Jerrick McKinnon's?
Ive seen you say this several times presumably because you really believe it and it's just a silly thing to say.
Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf - there are probably at least 100 contracts that are worse than Solder's in the history of the NFL....
Russell's rookie deal was six years $68m, 31 guaranteed. Solder signed for four years $68m, 35 guaranteed.
Yes, Solder's deal is worse. It's more money in a shorter period. What does ryan leaf's contract from 1998 really mean? Did you just google bad nfl contracts in history? 4 years 31m isn't even close to Solder or Russell.
RE: RE: RE: RE: So 2/5ths of our starting OL have been cut Â
Another on IR. And the worst contract in nfl history.
Good job DG.
How is this, or Solder's contract for that matter the worst contract in NFL history? Or worse than any contract Sam Bradford has signed for that matter? Or Joe Flacco's? Or Jerrick McKinnon's?
Ive seen you say this several times presumably because you really believe it and it's just a silly thing to say.
Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf - there are probably at least 100 contracts that are worse than Solder's in the history of the NFL....
Russell's rookie deal was six years $68m, 31 guaranteed. Solder signed for four years $68m, 35 guaranteed.
Yes, Solder's deal is worse. It's more money in a shorter period. What does ryan leaf's contract from 1998 really mean? Did you just google bad nfl contracts in history? 4 years 31m isn't even close to Solder or Russell.
Cool logic. Let's talk about this in ten years when it will have ceased to be a bad contract.
Mmmmmmmm, its not safe at all to say that. Saquon, Carter, Hernandez and Hill all look like players and they all will lilely be here longer than Solder, Stewart or, well, Omameh would.
Carter really hasn't done much. Credit for Hill, saquon and Hernandez were easy.
Ummmigahd! He is a rookie with 2 sacks in 8 games. But fine. 1 out of his top 4 picks is middling. Jeezus.
What? It's true. On a team with zero pass rush and plenty of opportunity, he's not been able to do much. Maybe he'll be good in a year or two, or maybe he'll play out his rookie deal and move on like the rest of the failed attempts in the past.
But clearly Hill and Hernandez can play. That we've actually seen.
Carter can too. Hes just raw. Osi had only one sack and 26 total tackles (18 solo, 8 ast) as a rookie. Carter has 27 total, 18 solo and 2 sacks. Not everybody puts up Von Miller numbers. Hell Leonard Floyd who most compare Carter to had only 7 sacks his rookie year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: So 2/5ths of our starting OL have been cut Â
Another on IR. And the worst contract in nfl history.
Good job DG.
How is this, or Solder's contract for that matter the worst contract in NFL history? Or worse than any contract Sam Bradford has signed for that matter? Or Joe Flacco's? Or Jerrick McKinnon's?
Ive seen you say this several times presumably because you really believe it and it's just a silly thing to say.
Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf - there are probably at least 100 contracts that are worse than Solder's in the history of the NFL....
Russell's rookie deal was six years $68m, 31 guaranteed. Solder signed for four years $68m, 35 guaranteed.
Yes, Solder's deal is worse. It's more money in a shorter period. What does ryan leaf's contract from 1998 really mean? Did you just google bad nfl contracts in history? 4 years 31m isn't even close to Solder or Russell.
You also neglected to point out its really only a two year contract as theres an out in '20 and our dead cap is only 8.
I have no idea why you are defending dep's stupid ass point as it is not an evil contract
Is Gettleman is running this team like it's a Yahoo fantasy football team.
Maybe we should limit his allowed waiver moves?
Are you suggesting he should have held on to him? Or that he shouldn’t be trying to add players at all?
Wtf? Are you Omamehs mother? It’s the only explanation...And fwiw, Mrs. Omameh, your son fucking sucks so stop whining about him getting dumped for a waiver wire claim. Instead of asking the league to change the rules to protect your son, how about telling him to play better?
You're a joke.
Gettleman missed on all of his FA signings.
Great he figured it out, awesome.
It was a bad signing, like every other one he made this year.
I only hope Mara cuts bait as quick.
Agree on DG, and let’s not forget that great Ogletree trade taking on his contract while he has been invisible on the D. You have to wonder why a team with SB aspirations (Rams) would trade a starting LB for a 3rd rd pick.
I agree, although I read that Solder likes to route speed rushers around behind the QB pocket and that because the center and guards allow pressure up the middle Eli cannot step up to let the pressure run past.
I agree, although I read that Solder likes to route speed rushers around behind the QB pocket and that because the center and guards allow pressure up the middle Eli cannot step up to let the pressure run past.
But he really hasn’t done that either. He has whiffed a lot this year and been beaten on the inside as well. He has to be more versatile. I have been shocked how easily he gets pushed back for a man of his size.
I agree, although I read that Solder likes to route speed rushers around behind the QB pocket and that because the center and guards allow pressure up the middle Eli cannot step up to let the pressure run past.
But he really hasn’t done that either. He has whiffed a lot this year and been beaten on the inside as well. He has to be more versatile. I have been shocked how easily he gets pushed back for a man of his size.
I think most of his misses are to the outside. Yes he had a couple inside, true.
While I basically agree with you and have even posted that he is no better than Flowers, so called scouts have been talking about his style of pushing people outside as a reason for his putrid performance. And I also never thought that much of him in NE, either.
However, I am happy that Omameh was let go. Why wait til year end. Yes the signing sucked but at least they did not hold on to him when it was clear he did not improve.
Glad this happened without delay. But, as always, the lack of information here about who was responsible for and who did what in the process of signing him in the first place is infuriating.
As others have observed, the Giants seems inexcusably weak in the selection and preparation of Offensive linemen. Who is involved, from the ground up? Forget about the top-line overseers, who of course, have to bear ultimate blame for this situation. But who did they in turn rely on when they made their decisions? Do the lower-down, nameless characters in this sorry story, repeated year after year, still have jobs with the Giants? The answer ought to be "No!'. But we don't even know who they are. They may be the real gum in the machine, the spoke in the wheel.
I think the draft was great. The FA signings were terrible but we were a terrible team. We overpaid for Solder mainly because there were few options. People may have balked at the price but few balked at the player including me. Our OL and cap were a mess.
We just simply didn't have the money or draft picks to fix this team. He had a successful draft. Now we have to have another next year.
FA is not a way to build. You cap off with Gas like we did in 2004 and 5. The building blocks were in place.
Giants should eat as much dead money now as they can. They're going to stink in 2019 anyway. Still kind of upset they didn't move Vernon and Collins, but oh well.
Spotrac has had the updated details from the moment he was waived. BBI was lamenting the "disastrous" deal the Omameh signed, but it wasn't that bad. The deal looked worse because his future year salaries were guaranteed inflating the numbers. But those salaries are only guaranteed if he is on the roster. The only thing that we are responsible for is the signing bonus (Total $4.5M - $1.5M this year and $3M next) and the combined base salary and workout bonus for this year $1M. So we will eat $3M next year, but we save his salary for 2019 ($4.6M). Omameh's Contract - ( New Window )
Lots of people calling it a great signing it's obvious they'd never heard of the guy.
As ever, the Giants could sign an inanimate carbon rod and there would be posters here saying it was a good signing.
mfsd : 3/15/2018 9:11 am : link
In comment 13866768 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
Will impact the perception of our ol.
It’s going to be night and day and with the signings yesterday it’s looking up for the offense
Turns out the playcalling and roster changes did absolutely squat for the Giants. The playcalling might be a bigger disappointment than some of these busts.
And an OL coach with even a worse resume.
The offense got worse with adding those two
I think it's more important to identify which posters don't know what they're talking about even when they sound like they do.
...shit show.
Quote:
what does saying “it’s a bad signing” get us? Do you have more BBI clout if you are right on a pick not working out?
I think it's more important to identify which posters don't know what they're talking about even when they sound like they do.
Is this coming from the guy that said that keeping Odell a Giant was a mistake? I heard you also hate irony.
Mmmmmmmm, its not safe at all to say that. Saquon, Carter, Hernandez and Hill all look like players and they all will lilely be here longer than Solder, Stewart or, well, Omameh would.
Most passionately.
Quote:
DGs first year is a disaster
Mmmmmmmm, its not safe at all to say that. Saquon, Carter, Hernandez and Hill all look like players and they all will lilely be here longer than Solder, Stewart or, well, Omameh would.
Carter really hasn't done much. Credit for Hill, saquon and Hernandez were easy.
Quote:
In comment 14171334 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
what does saying “it’s a bad signing” get us? Do you have more BBI clout if you are right on a pick not working out?
I think it's more important to identify which posters don't know what they're talking about even when they sound like they do.
Is this coming from the guy that said that keeping Odell a Giant was a mistake? I heard you also hate irony.
You're right it's working out great.
Quote:
In comment 14171348 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14171334 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
what does saying “it’s a bad signing” get us? Do you have more BBI clout if you are right on a pick not working out?
I think it's more important to identify which posters don't know what they're talking about even when they sound like they do.
Is this coming from the guy that said that keeping Odell a Giant was a mistake? I heard you also hate irony.
You're right it's working out great.
So vague. So repetitive. So little substance. Lol
Quote:
In comment 14171376 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
DGs first year is a disaster
Mmmmmmmm, its not safe at all to say that. Saquon, Carter, Hernandez and Hill all look like players and they all will lilely be here longer than Solder, Stewart or, well, Omameh would.
Carter really hasn't done much. Credit for Hill, saquon and Hernandez were easy.
Ummmigahd! He is a rookie with 2 sacks in 8 games. But fine. 1 out of his top 4 picks is middling. Jeezus.
I did not contribute in that thread but if I did, I probably would have said that we had no choice but to pay this guy since our prior decisions were so poor.
Quote:
below Solder contrct - ( New Window )
I did not contribute in that thread but if I did, I probably would have said that we had no choice but to pay this guy since our prior decisions were so poor.
I totally agree Eric. I think judging this GM based on three apparently forced FA moves (Stewart was a halfassed signing to guard against the oft chance that the Browns took Saquon at one EEARLY on before the eemergence of Mayfield for the BBrowns). Yes, Dave Gettleman threw some money at problems.
The key question I have with those doubting his ability as a GM or talent evaluator or whatever else is that we dont know what THE BOSS wanted. Its the same in politics. Shit rolls downhill.
It makes no sense to me the idea that Omameh and Solder, based also in the way their contracts were structured, were in DG's plans for the team beyond 2 years. John wanted to give it a shot with Eli despite DG's misgivings. DG cited the only game that could be a convincing argument for going at it again with Eli (who by the way, was uncuttable this year with a 20 million hit) and then stuck wine corks (Solder, Omameh) in a failing dike to appease his boss.
It didnt work out. We spent a lot of money on players who performed poorly. But to discern this series of moves as those of a bumbling, old, sick man who is hell bent on his agenda rather than a team's success which dictates his legacy is careless, sloppy, and in my mind, doesnt make sense.
Wow, reading those posts is really really sad.
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In comment 14171384 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 14171376 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
DGs first year is a disaster
Mmmmmmmm, its not safe at all to say that. Saquon, Carter, Hernandez and Hill all look like players and they all will lilely be here longer than Solder, Stewart or, well, Omameh would.
Carter really hasn't done much. Credit for Hill, saquon and Hernandez were easy.
Ummmigahd! He is a rookie with 2 sacks in 8 games. But fine. 1 out of his top 4 picks is middling. Jeezus.
What? It's true. On a team with zero pass rush and plenty of opportunity, he's not been able to do much. Maybe he'll be good in a year or two, or maybe he'll play out his rookie deal and move on like the rest of the failed attempts in the past.
But clearly Hill and Hernandez can play. That we've actually seen.
Quote:
In comment 14170697 dep026 said:
Quote:
Another on IR. And the worst contract in nfl history.
Good job DG.
How is this, or Solder's contract for that matter the worst contract in NFL history? Or worse than any contract Sam Bradford has signed for that matter? Or Joe Flacco's? Or Jerrick McKinnon's?
Ive seen you say this several times presumably because you really believe it and it's just a silly thing to say.
Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf - there are probably at least 100 contracts that are worse than Solder's in the history of the NFL....
Russell's rookie deal was six years $68m, 31 guaranteed. Solder signed for four years $68m, 35 guaranteed.
Yes, Solder's deal is worse. It's more money in a shorter period. What does ryan leaf's contract from 1998 really mean? Did you just google bad nfl contracts in history? 4 years 31m isn't even close to Solder or Russell.
Quote:
In comment 14170723 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 14170697 dep026 said:
Quote:
Another on IR. And the worst contract in nfl history.
Good job DG.
How is this, or Solder's contract for that matter the worst contract in NFL history? Or worse than any contract Sam Bradford has signed for that matter? Or Joe Flacco's? Or Jerrick McKinnon's?
Ive seen you say this several times presumably because you really believe it and it's just a silly thing to say.
Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf - there are probably at least 100 contracts that are worse than Solder's in the history of the NFL....
Russell's rookie deal was six years $68m, 31 guaranteed. Solder signed for four years $68m, 35 guaranteed.
Yes, Solder's deal is worse. It's more money in a shorter period. What does ryan leaf's contract from 1998 really mean? Did you just google bad nfl contracts in history? 4 years 31m isn't even close to Solder or Russell.
Cool logic. Let's talk about this in ten years when it will have ceased to be a bad contract.
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In comment 14171408 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 14171384 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 14171376 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
DGs first year is a disaster
Mmmmmmmm, its not safe at all to say that. Saquon, Carter, Hernandez and Hill all look like players and they all will lilely be here longer than Solder, Stewart or, well, Omameh would.
Carter really hasn't done much. Credit for Hill, saquon and Hernandez were easy.
Ummmigahd! He is a rookie with 2 sacks in 8 games. But fine. 1 out of his top 4 picks is middling. Jeezus.
What? It's true. On a team with zero pass rush and plenty of opportunity, he's not been able to do much. Maybe he'll be good in a year or two, or maybe he'll play out his rookie deal and move on like the rest of the failed attempts in the past.
But clearly Hill and Hernandez can play. That we've actually seen.
Carter can too. Hes just raw. Osi had only one sack and 26 total tackles (18 solo, 8 ast) as a rookie. Carter has 27 total, 18 solo and 2 sacks. Not everybody puts up Von Miller numbers. Hell Leonard Floyd who most compare Carter to had only 7 sacks his rookie year.
Quote:
In comment 14170723 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 14170697 dep026 said:
Quote:
Another on IR. And the worst contract in nfl history.
Good job DG.
How is this, or Solder's contract for that matter the worst contract in NFL history? Or worse than any contract Sam Bradford has signed for that matter? Or Joe Flacco's? Or Jerrick McKinnon's?
Ive seen you say this several times presumably because you really believe it and it's just a silly thing to say.
Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf - there are probably at least 100 contracts that are worse than Solder's in the history of the NFL....
Russell's rookie deal was six years $68m, 31 guaranteed. Solder signed for four years $68m, 35 guaranteed.
Yes, Solder's deal is worse. It's more money in a shorter period. What does ryan leaf's contract from 1998 really mean? Did you just google bad nfl contracts in history? 4 years 31m isn't even close to Solder or Russell.
You also neglected to point out its really only a two year contract as theres an out in '20 and our dead cap is only 8.
I have no idea why you are defending dep's stupid ass point as it is not an evil contract
Quote:
In comment 14170710 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
Is Gettleman is running this team like it's a Yahoo fantasy football team.
Maybe we should limit his allowed waiver moves?
Are you suggesting he should have held on to him? Or that he shouldn’t be trying to add players at all?
Wtf? Are you Omamehs mother? It’s the only explanation...And fwiw, Mrs. Omameh, your son fucking sucks so stop whining about him getting dumped for a waiver wire claim. Instead of asking the league to change the rules to protect your son, how about telling him to play better?
You're a joke.
Gettleman missed on all of his FA signings.
Great he figured it out, awesome.
It was a bad signing, like every other one he made this year.
I only hope Mara cuts bait as quick.
Agree on DG, and let’s not forget that great Ogletree trade taking on his contract while he has been invisible on the D. You have to wonder why a team with SB aspirations (Rams) would trade a starting LB for a 3rd rd pick.
I agree, although I read that Solder likes to route speed rushers around behind the QB pocket and that because the center and guards allow pressure up the middle Eli cannot step up to let the pressure run past.
Reese would had kept the guy for the entire contract and blamed coach for not getting the best of him.
I saw him and thought he looked impressive but obviously played like jane.
Next.
Reese took 9 years to fix OL and it never happened.....i suspect DG will figure it out much quicker.
Anybody recall who were DG's other free agent options at Left Tackle if he didn't go Solder? I will look now but maybe somebody recalls...
Quote:
To a guy playing worse than Ereck Flowers....
I agree, although I read that Solder likes to route speed rushers around behind the QB pocket and that because the center and guards allow pressure up the middle Eli cannot step up to let the pressure run past.
But he really hasn’t done that either. He has whiffed a lot this year and been beaten on the inside as well. He has to be more versatile. I have been shocked how easily he gets pushed back for a man of his size.
Quote:
In comment 14171604 dep026 said:
Quote:
To a guy playing worse than Ereck Flowers....
I agree, although I read that Solder likes to route speed rushers around behind the QB pocket and that because the center and guards allow pressure up the middle Eli cannot step up to let the pressure run past.
But he really hasn’t done that either. He has whiffed a lot this year and been beaten on the inside as well. He has to be more versatile. I have been shocked how easily he gets pushed back for a man of his size.
I think most of his misses are to the outside. Yes he had a couple inside, true.
While I basically agree with you and have even posted that he is no better than Flowers, so called scouts have been talking about his style of pushing people outside as a reason for his putrid performance. And I also never thought that much of him in NE, either.
However, I am happy that Omameh was let go. Why wait til year end. Yes the signing sucked but at least they did not hold on to him when it was clear he did not improve.
As others have observed, the Giants seems inexcusably weak in the selection and preparation of Offensive linemen. Who is involved, from the ground up? Forget about the top-line overseers, who of course, have to bear ultimate blame for this situation. But who did they in turn rely on when they made their decisions? Do the lower-down, nameless characters in this sorry story, repeated year after year, still have jobs with the Giants? The answer ought to be "No!'. But we don't even know who they are. They may be the real gum in the machine, the spoke in the wheel.
Whereas it has changed, the line scheming seems more or less the same concept as macadoo.
That is, on 'important downs' pass as run leading to vanilla, predictable, passive, anchor pass protect.
Quote:
what does saying “it’s a bad signing” get us? Do you have more BBI clout if you are right on a pick not working out?
I think it's more important to identify which posters don't know what they're talking about even when they sound like they do.
Agreed. It's too bad you don't have much of a sense for irony.
Quote:
In comment 14171334 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
what does saying “it’s a bad signing” get us? Do you have more BBI clout if you are right on a pick not working out?
I think it's more important to identify which posters don't know what they're talking about even when they sound like they do.
Agreed. It's too bad you don't have much of a sense for irony.
You're the second dipshit to make the same lame joke. Congrats.
We just simply didn't have the money or draft picks to fix this team. He had a successful draft. Now we have to have another next year.
FA is not a way to build. You cap off with Gas like we did in 2004 and 5. The building blocks were in place.
Spotrac has had the updated details from the moment he was waived. BBI was lamenting the "disastrous" deal the Omameh signed, but it wasn't that bad. The deal looked worse because his future year salaries were guaranteed inflating the numbers. But those salaries are only guaranteed if he is on the roster. The only thing that we are responsible for is the signing bonus (Total $4.5M - $1.5M this year and $3M next) and the combined base salary and workout bonus for this year $1M. So we will eat $3M next year, but we save his salary for 2019 ($4.6M).
Omameh's Contract - ( New Window )
I'm not sure if it's accurate but I saw that he would count for 3.1 million in dead money but with 3 million in cap savings.
$3M dead money for 2019. Was due to cost $6.25M against the 2019 cap, so $3.25M in cap savings.
Giants currently have ~$6M in 2018 cap space (carryover) and ~$33M in 2019 space before any carryover. Both numbers are roughly middle of the pack.
If/when Eli retires/is cut they'll gain another $17M in cap space.