per Schefter.
if he does not report by Tuesday he becomes ineligible to play the rest of the season.
I understood the hold out, don't understand not reporting (assuming Schefter is accurate, which is not a safe assumption).
Link below.
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So he now loses a full years wort of salary (the entire 14.5 mil) unless he reports?
He will be 27 years old next year and from my understanding, the Steelers could just franchise tag him again since he didn't report this year?
If that is all correct, I'm just thinking...what team is going to give him 15 mil per year? Especially after seeing Conner's success. I am not doubting Bell's ability but does that not cause hesitation that at least part of his effectiveness was due to the Steelers line and/or offensive scheme? Plus Effective RB's in this league can be had. I still remember being in awe earlier this year when I read the highest paid RB in this league right now is JERRICK MCKINNON.
Wonder how involved Bell's agent is with the advice he's been given. I think this whole thing was a mistake for him. How is he getting that 15 mil back?
Their other option would be the transition tag, which effectively makes LB a free agent.
He's not going to play because he doesn't want to risk injury until he has a lot of guaranteed money.
He's guaranteed $15M sure, most of us will never make that much in our entire lives, but if he gets a career ending injury he'd stand to lose much more that he could have gotten in a LT deal.
but not reporting doesn't make sense to me because as you mention, the Steelers can simply franchise him again next year.
How does sitting out this entire year help him?
He's guaranteed $15M sure, most of us will never make that much in our entire lives, but if he gets a career ending injury he'd stand to lose much more that he could have gotten in a LT deal.
but not reporting doesn't make sense to me because as you mention, the Steelers can simply franchise him again next year.
How does sitting out this entire year help him?
The Steelers will not FT him at QB money. That is why. If they do then LB holds them hostage. 25 mil is held up to prevent them from signings players and possibly rookies.
Still don't think this is the best option for Bell, but we'll see who ponies up the cash for him in free agency and if he gets significantly more than $15M guaranteed.
Their other option would be the transition tag, which effectively makes LB a free agent.
He's not going to play because he doesn't want to risk injury until he has a lot of guaranteed money.
Thanks for clarifying. So they could tag him, but would have to pay him top 5 player salary (QB) money. So yea that likely won't happen which makes a bit more sense from Bell's side. But couldn't they still tag him until they work out a trade?
The Steelers are not about to tag Bell for a third time and have to pay him top-five quarterback money.
Also per the CBA, if the Steelers do not tag Bell in 2019, he will become an unrestricted free agent.
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There was a published report about this a few days ago. I don't have the link handy, but if you go to Schefter's twitter and read the comments, everybody seems to agree this is true.
He’s going to get a good deal. Just don’t think he will get what he thinks. .
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because under the new CBA it would cost them the QB tag, $25m.
Their other option would be the transition tag, which effectively makes LB a free agent.
He's not going to play because he doesn't want to risk injury until he has a lot of guaranteed money.
Thanks for clarifying. So they could tag him, but would have to pay him top 5 player salary (QB) money. So yea that likely won't happen which makes a bit more sense from Bell's side. But couldn't they still tag him until they work out a trade?
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Even without an accrued season in 2018, if Bell were to be tagged again by the Steelers in 2019, it would count as his third franchise tag; it would not revert to his second. Per the CBA, Pittsburgh in that case would be required to tender Bell non-exclusively (with first- and third-round comp picks attached) at the average of the top five highest-paid players at the league's highest-paid position. Whether that interpretation of the CBA is subject to litigation is unclear.
The Steelers are not about to tag Bell for a third time and have to pay him top-five quarterback money.
Also per the CBA, if the Steelers do not tag Bell in 2019, he will become an unrestricted free agent.
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They could but that means they need to have the cap room available to tag him in the first place as well as not be players during FA while a trade is worked out. Teams will know this and tell PIT to go fuck themselves. The longer they have Bell tagged at that price range the more it hurts. Hence, it ain't happening. I'm sure PIT wants to move on after their players and coach have ripped Bell (totally disagree with that approach) for his decision.
He’s going to get a good deal. Just don’t think he will get what he thinks. .
You don't know that.
He’s going to get a good deal. Just don’t think he will get what he thinks. .
Couldn’t disagree more. I think he will get at least double the guaranteed money he would have gotten this year and he didn’t risk injury. He also spared himself of a year of wear and tear.
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While arguing about football at work, several attorneys at my firm and I started discussing Le'Veon Bell's situation and how his agent screwed up interpreting the CBA. Naturally, we decided to pull up the CBA ourselves and figure out what it actually says. Surprisingly, it's pretty straightforward and it's shocking this wasn't discovered earlier. So what does the CBA actually say? Since most articles about the issue don't seem to include this (or focus on less relevant sections), I thought I'd offer it here with my brief translations to non-legalese. All of the relevant sections come from Article 10 of the current CBA.
This section is fairly simple and just explains how franchise tags work. The important part to note is that this section permits a Club to "designate" a player. Once the player is designated, that player is now restricted to only negotiating and signing with that team.
This is where the crux of the issue is. Section 2(b) states that any Club that "designates a player as a Franchise Player for the third time" must pay the increased salary described (subsection A explaining why it's the average of the top 5 quarterback salaries). This language matters since it only uses the term "designates" and doesn't require that the player actually sign the tag or play for the team for the designation to count towards the total. If the Steelers were to designate Bell as a franchise player this off-season, that would be the third designation, regardless of if he signed or played on the second designation.
Furthermore, Section 15(c), which authorizes the Steelers to use the Franchise tag even if Bell doesn't play does not change the terms of these sections and explicitly states that the third year designation rule still applies, so it is not relevant to this analysis.
So how did they screw this up and what does it mean?
Breaking it down to its simplest terms, there are two ways to interpret a contract: with just the words on the page, or considering outside factors such as the intent of the parties who agreed to the contract. While the terms of the contract, on their face, that Bell gets the third year tag even if he doesn't play, that's not the only interpretation. It was entirely possible that the NFL and NFLPA meant for this section to be interpreted so that a "designation" is not complete unless they player agrees to a deal with the team. That would mean that if a player was designated and never signed, then the next designation would essentially be a continuation of the previous one, so they would not trigger the third designation rule under 2(b). Given all the reports about the CBA before the season, that is clearly what most analysts believed to be the case (unless they just never read the CBA). It's possible Bell's agent didn't read closely enough at the time to realize this section was open to interpretation or believed, for whatever reason, the the NFL and NFLPA would interpret the CBA to follow this analysis.
However, when the report broke about the CBA terms last week, the NFL and NFLPA confirmed that they interpreted the CBA to mean Bell would get the third year tag regardless of if he plays. Therefore, no matter what analysis is used to interpret the CBA, it is clear that Bell is entitled to the level of compensation spelled under the third year designation rule in Section 2(b), which would amount to around $25 million.
Therefore, the Steelers have 3 options this off-season if Bell doesn't show. 1) Elect not to tag him, allowing him to become an unrestricted free agent; 2) Franchise tag him for a third time at the increased rate; or 3) place a transition tag on him pursuant to Section 3(a). If the Steelers elect to franchise tag him again, they may only place a non-exclusive franchise tag, meaning Bell would still free to negotiate with other teams, but any team that signed him would be required to send a first and third round pick to the Steelers as compensation:
If the Steelers elect to use the third option and place the transition tag on him, Bell would still be free to negotiate with other teams, but the Steelers would retain the right to match any offer he receives:
Therefore, the transition tag would be irrelevant if the Steelers do not plan to match any of Bell's offers. Additionally, if the Steelers chose to place the transition tag on Bell, they would lose the right to receive compensatory picks for Bell leaving in free agency, as he would not be considered a departing unrestricted free agent under the terms of the CBA.
Tl;dr - It's a near certainty that Bell will be able to get the third year franchise tag this off-season even if he doesn't play and the Steelers would actually benefit from letting him walk as an UFA rather than using the transition tag on him. The Steelers could still tag him then trade him, but it's an open question whether the Steelers would want to wrap up that much cap room on a $25 million tag in the interim.
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Agreed on all points. Also Conner playing as well as he has also tends to hurt his stock as well. Seems foolish
Fans are too emotional and think everything is a slight. Why is he a bad teammate for holding out? Maybe he should have just told them but maybe he was advised not to? GMs and agents know this is a business and the guy did what he had to do to protect himself. A bunch of teams will be interested in his services, and some will offer him a contract. He will get more than enough money.
Fans are too emotional and think everything is a slight. Why is he a bad teammate for holding out? Maybe he should have just told them but maybe he was advised not to? GMs and agents know this is a business and the guy did what he had to do to protect himself. A bunch of teams will be interested in his services, and some will offer him a contract. He will get more than enough money.
He was already offered $70 million with $35 million guaranteed.
He's already gone this far, might as well save his body for a team their is a mutual interest.
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If he played and blew his knee out, what would he make as a FA next year? Now compare that number + the $14.5 million to what Gurley got and let me know how that math adds up.
Fans are too emotional and think everything is a slight. Why is he a bad teammate for holding out? Maybe he should have just told them but maybe he was advised not to? GMs and agents know this is a business and the guy did what he had to do to protect himself. A bunch of teams will be interested in his services, and some will offer him a contract. He will get more than enough money.
He was already offered $70 million with $35 million guaranteed.
I’m not sure where you’re getting $35 M guaranteed when it was reported everywhere and discussed on this site a million times that the guaranteed money was only really $10M, which is a joke.
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With the way he did this, but maybe its simply about pride. At some point he may no longer have wanted to play for the Steelers regardless of whether or not they'd pay him more. He might just feel disrespected and doesn't wanna put his buddy on the line for them anymore.
Chances are, he gets more than double that in guaranteed money, next year......
He's not going to play because he doesn't want to risk injury until he has a lot of guaranteed money.
He would have to live on the paltry 15 million? Oh, the humanity!
The year counts in regards to the price of the tag. So he gave up his ability to be a RFA but he holds the cards since the Steelers would have to earmark a fuckton just to try and trade him.
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He's not going to play because he doesn't want to risk injury until he has a lot of guaranteed money.
He would have to live on the paltry 15 million? Oh, the humanity!
So you don’t support trying to double or triple that?
so this might be about somehow getting more money (unlikely, but i guess worth a shot)... or it might be about getting assurances that he's not going to have to carry a 30 touches weekly workload moving forward.
He's been in Pittsburgh for a week now after leaving Miami early last week. Seems like he wants to report, and yeah, there's injury risk but he's also leaving a lot of $$$ on the table... and Connor's emergence means they shouldnt have to rely on him so much once he's back.
I don't know about that but even if that were true, then what's stopping Bell from faking an injury?
And with the things that have been said by Steelers coaches and players, if he were to show up, that may be a lockerroom headache type situation. They are a half game or 1 full game in front of the Bengals who are playing pretty well and that's clearly not a good time for something like that to pop up.
He completely alienated and disrespected his team, was extremely selfish and egotistical, and just in general came off as an entitled asshole publicly.
As most of you guys know, there's an unwritten rule in the NFL among the players which is generally followed, almost universally: teammates and players in general don't talk about the contracts and business decisions made by other players, particularly teammates. In other words, if you or another player can get that money, get that money and you generally won't be judged in public by your peers on how you got that money or how much it may have been over what some perceive as the appropriate contract value.
The fact so many of his teammates (and his OL in particular) broke this rule and called him out during the first quarter of the season reinforces my opinion that this dude is an absolute asshole and me-first player versus a true team player looking to win championships.
If I were an NFL owner/GM/coach/player and Bell is a free agent, I wouldn't allow him near my locker room after this whole situation. He's proven to the entire league and its fan base that he can easily be a cancer within the locker room and a distraction for your entire team over the course of one or more seasons.
I Google'd his agent, and it looks like he may simply have shit representatives in general. This quote is from a 2017 article, so it's dated, but when they use Bell as the leading player they represent, followed by Tyrod Taylor of all players, it's unlikely they're a big time agency.
What a joke this whole deal has been. I'm on the Steelers side on this one.
I will laugh if Steelers go on to win the SB without him.
His big mistake was letting Conner prove that it's more the Steelers Offense then the actual RB. But then again, GMs are pretty stupid in the NFL, so one will probably over pay him next year.
Given injury insurance policies are a thing, I'm sure there's an underwriter out there who would have been willing to write a multi-million dollar premium policy to cover his projected future earnings, with specific language for top RB/top offensive player (excluding QB's) money for a free agency deal after the 2018 season, plus a prorated amount of a potential second contract under free agency.
If he was truly concerned just about injury this year and getting his huge ass contract next year, seriously enough to the point he was willing to hold out on a $14.5m contract for the entire year, surely there was an option to go with the insurance route?
I haven't seen that mentioned in articles on the issue, but it's just an uninformed guess/thought.
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He's not going to play because he doesn't want to risk injury until he has a lot of guaranteed money.
He would have to live on the paltry 15 million? Oh, the humanity!
Never fails.
And people wonder why they're not rich. You wouldn't know what to do with the opportunity.
Btw if you ever decide to sell your house Im gonna offer 25% of its value, and I'm gonna say "that's still a lot of money, you should be thankful!"
Honestly what's the difference between 100 mil and 15 mil? Pfff I only make $10 an hour so Leveon should take my feelings into account and take whatever offer is given to him.. I mean really, it's not like he generates that much more revenue for his company than I do greeting customers at wal-mart.
The audacity of this senseless business world where everyone is just paid arbitrarily based on a figure pulled out of a hat. My emotions do not approve!!!
I will laugh if Steelers go on to win the SB without him.
His big mistake was letting Conner prove that it's more the Steelers Offense then the actual RB. But then again, GMs are pretty stupid in the NFL, so one will probably over pay him next year.
So he won’t get $14.5 million guaranteed for the rest of his career?
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His choice. Hey will probably regret this in a few years.
I will laugh if Steelers go on to win the SB without him.
His big mistake was letting Conner prove that it's more the Steelers Offense then the actual RB. But then again, GMs are pretty stupid in the NFL, so one will probably over pay him next year.
So he won’t get $14.5 million guaranteed for the rest of his career?
It depends how you look at it. In theory, whatever money he makes moving forward would have been in addition to the 14.5 mil this year pending injury.
Alternatively you could say he potentially could have been injured and not had the subsequent years money. Or try to justify how much more he ends up making due to the year worth of wear and tear off his body.
We will see how it goes but there will be tons of teams with cap room who would like to take it to the next level on offense. Jets could easily front load it and cut him after year 2 if it didn’t work out, for example.
27 years old with 5 years of wear and tear at RB. Do we really believe someone will shell out premium money for him? Enough to makeup for the $14 mil lost?
Yep. And yet dep would have you believe that Solder's deal is THE WORST CONTRACT IN NFL HISTORY. Lol, what a dumb statement that he defended vigorously.
27 years old with 5 years of wear and tear at RB. Do we really believe someone will shell out premium money for him? Enough to makeup for the $14 mil lost?
Considering McKinnok got over $14m guaranteed, it’s basically a certainty that Bell will make out well. Why do people find this hard to believe? Being 27 doesn’t matter since you’d front load him. There’s a bunch of goo backs approaching or over 30 (McCoy, AP) and even Gore is producing.
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I still remember being in awe earlier this year when I read the highest paid RB in this league right now is JERRICK MCKINNON.
Yep. And yet dep would have you believe that Solder's deal is THE WORST CONTRACT IN NFL HISTORY. Lol, what a dumb statement that he defended vigorously.
In fairness to Dep, McKinnon was injured before taking a game snap in SF. Usually a GM gets the benefit of the doubt with an injury.
Solder is healthy.
I do wonder if Solder's son's health is weighing on his mind, which would be understandable. These guys are humans and as bad as he's played I hate how cold fans can be.
But at the same time he was signed I (and others) felt Solder was a bad contract before he played bad in NY.
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In comment 14171509 shyster said:
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He's not going to play because he doesn't want to risk injury until he has a lot of guaranteed money.
He would have to live on the paltry 15 million? Oh, the humanity!
Never fails.
And people wonder why they're not rich. You wouldn't know what to do with the opportunity.
Btw if you ever decide to sell your house Im gonna offer 25% of its value, and I'm gonna say "that's still a lot of money, you should be thankful!"
Honestly what's the difference between 100 mil and 15 mil? Pfff I only make $10 an hour so Leveon should take my feelings into account and take whatever offer is given to him.. I mean really, it's not like he generates that much more revenue for his company than I do greeting customers at wal-mart.
The audacity of this senseless business world where everyone is just paid arbitrarily based on a figure pulled out of a hat. My emotions do not approve!!!
I'm so grateful that some giants.com dreg (and/or a BBI dupe) is here to tell BBI posters why they're not rich.
Well, isn't the "front load" part the problem? Teams aren't going to want to guarantee money to someone who sat out an entire season due to injury fear.
He's approaching "over the hill" status for RBs, won't have played a down in 1.5 years, shows he's a selfish player and a locker room headache...
And he wants a MASSIVE contract.
I understand he's forgoing $14 mil in order to make more money down the road, but it seems short-sided.
I don't want to "hypothetical" this, but imagine if he had an awesome season this year. Not only would he be $14 mil richer, but he would get an even larger contract in the future.
Bells only mistake has been looking like an asshole. But I think fans care about that more than teams trying to win football games. His age is a number that should be used as a gauge. 27 is not a hardstop, there’s proof of this all over he league. The turnover rate at RB is due more to the RB not being good enough than it is injury.
Even if the $40m is off the table I’m guessing he still doubles his guaranteed money. There’s too many teams desperate for talent in this league.
You can’t have it both ways.
But part of that is buying out the Franchise tag for this year which is $14.5M. So he is essentially getting a 4 year contract with $18.5M guaranteed for the rest of the deal or signing a franchise tender knowing that Pittsburgh would give him 500+ touches if they could and that will hurt is longterm value.
Neither side will confirm the validity of that, though Bell's agent said "I'm not going to confirm if those numbers are accurate or not, though they're not"
LOL.
He says only year 1 is guaranteed (as per the Steelers MO - according to the agent), but my guess is that maybe year 2 was probably guaranteed for injury only, which for Bell's purposes that should probably count.
I would have had LB sign the FPT offer right before game one so he could maximize the money opportunity. But then I would have LB fake an injury ala Kawhi Leonard. Go with the phantom thigh injury that just won't heal...
Sure, it reeks of being unethical. But so do these pathetic, non-guaranteed contracts. And all of these other CBA rules that are predominantly pro-owner.
The legacy of Gene Upshaw's incompetence lives on and on...
I would have had LB sign the FPT offer right before game one so he could maximize the money opportunity. But then I would have LB fake an injury ala Kawhi Leonard. Go with the phantom thigh injury that just won't heal...
Sure, it reeks of being unethical. But so do these pathetic, non-guaranteed contracts. And all of these other CBA rules that are predominantly pro-owner.
The legacy of Gene Upshaw's incompetence lives on and on...
I guess it's a good thing for the game of football that Bell and his agent have more integrity than you do.
I'm sure Bell would have loved to play football if he was compensated fairly.
It's a fair question. My guess is some team(s) would give him a higher % of what he's looking for - eventually. But your guess is as good as mine. In the end, an owner might simply - I have the cap $, LB is a great player, he can help me win, and he'll put or keep asses in seats. Thus, I see the Colts going all in for him...
I don't think he would need to come clean-clean. Just say something along the lines that it was a nagging injury and he wanted to play it safe. And leave it at that.
I'm sure Bell would have loved to play football if he was compensated fairly.
But, the team's position regarding such a deal at his age and level of wear tear are also significant. His game wasn't about speed or explosion, but he looked to be slowing down last year to my eyes.
I guess it's a good thing for the game of football that Bell and his agent have more integrity than you do.
Oh, please. Do you really think the majority of these owner have integrity and loyalty? Why do you think the CBA is written the way it is? To give the owners as much powers as they can get via pulling the wool over the eyes of the worst professional sports union in the world...
I guess the right thing to have done would be for the Steelers to either offer him a fair contract or to trade him. They drew a hardline in the sand. Even if you will argue that the Steelers are well within their rights(they are), then Bell is well within his rights to do what he's doing. Its his only course of action to combat what they did.
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I guess it's a good thing for the game of football that Bell and his agent have more integrity than you do.
Oh, please. Do you really think the majority of these owner have integrity and loyalty? Why do you think the CBA is written the way it is? To give the owners as much powers as they can get via pulling the wool over the eyes of the worst professional sports union in the world...
Apparently, as evidenced by his actions, that's not how Bell chooses to live his life. He has principles I guess.
Rather than fake an injury to collect money, he is upfront and honest about it and while not willing to injure himself for $15M, he doesn't stoop to unethical and unprincipled means to still collect it. Agree with the approach or not, I admire it.
Also, the NFLPA had to agree to the CBA. If it's slanted toward owners or unfair in any way, they share in that. They had leverage.
Then you factor in the franchise tag which gives teams the ability to lock up RB's for a short term(at an average salary which is already to low because RB's don't make a lot of money) and use the crap out of them and then letting them erode elsewhere. It's a broken system, specifically for RB's.
I don't judge him, as I've said, and I admire how principled he is, and I think he's probably on the right side of this situation, but I don't have a ton of empathy for him.
Rather than fake an injury to collect money, he is upfront and honest about it and while not willing to injure himself for $15M, he doesn't stoop to unethical and unprincipled means to still collect it. Agree with the approach or not, I admire it.
Also, the NFLPA had to agree to the CBA. If it's slanted toward owners or unfair in any way, they share in that. They had leverage.
Again, I said I was pro-Bell. I just think there was a better way to maximize the opportunity. I certainly give him credit with sticking to his guns.
And I agree with you that the NFLPA made their bed with the CBA, now they have to lie in it. But that doesn't mean the deal is fair. It's still a horrible deal for the players based on what they could get. Do you think Fehr or Marvin Miller would have accepted this non-sense?
But, alas, the NFLPA have a history of folding like cheap blankets and not realizing their leverage. And the owners just patiently wait them out and secure these lopsided deals...
But Conner's concussion and the fact they'd have to pay Bell $6M or whatever it is for the rest of the season and the fact Bell is a damn good RB, you know that wouldn't happen. They'd probably use him a lot.
But the Steelers are a stubborn franchise, so who knows what they'd do.
Wait, playing in the NFL is now a hypothetical? Dude had 5 awesome seasons in the NFL and didn't suffer any career ending injuries. Odds say that trend would have continued to this year. That's not a hypothetical.
In comment 14172868 UConn4523 said:
You can’t have it both ways.
I never once said that. Thanks for putting words in my mouth.
I said he wants a MASSIVE contract; one that somehow compensations him for the $14 million lost.
As stated above, if he played for the $14 million and had a solid year, which is highly likely given past history, he would still get a big contract and also be $14 million richer.
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Considering McKinnok got over $14m guaranteed, it’s basically a certainty that Bell will make out well. Why do people find this hard to believe? Being 27 doesn’t matter since you’d front load him. There’s a bunch of goo backs approaching or over 30 (McCoy, AP) and even Gore is producing.
Well, isn't the "front load" part the problem? Teams aren't going to want to guarantee money to someone who sat out an entire season due to injury fear.
He's approaching "over the hill" status for RBs, won't have played a down in 1.5 years, shows he's a selfish player and a locker room headache...
And he wants a MASSIVE contract.
I understand he's forgoing $14 mil in order to make more money down the road, but it seems short-sided.
I don't want to "hypothetical" this, but imagine if he had an awesome season this year. Not only would he be $14 mil richer, but he would get an even larger contract in the future.
Nope you said it right here. You said he’s approaching over the hill status but then your hypothetical says playing a good year would net him an even bigger contract.
Hypotheticals suck.