Perhaps we can make this a weekly discussion vis a vis old time Giants’ discussion, which could include Players, coaches, management, outstanding plays, games, etc..
Any age welcome.
My first glimpse of Conerly was in 1956, my first year, our championship. He was, as I recall, more of a game manager. Of course, with few exceptions, QBs basically complemented the running game, the popular T formation.
Don Heinrich was his back-up and would start and play, most, if not all, of the first qtr, which supposedly helped CC see what the D was bringing.
That’s just the thread start. And go.
'63 was my 1st year for the Giants. Rooted for the Packers in '62, but what does a 6 y/o know?
Thats why i like trueblue larry's posts
What you heard would be fine. Curious as to whether your Dad had similar memories to mine and other fans of that era
ESPN Charlie Conerly tribute - ( New Window )
He is remembered big time for the old farts at Ole Miss' too.
maybe he was stuck behind a crappy O-line...
Quote:
he was booed by Giants’ fans in the late ‘40s into the ‘50s
maybe he was stuck behind a crappy O-line...
Could be. Perhaps relatives of today’s guys?
steve in ky : 10:35 am : link : reply
Other than hearing stories from my dad.
YA was the QB Aging Ya .Then Earl Morrall
Remember the 98 Yard TD to Homer Jones
Some of the Greenbay championship game grew to hate Paul Hornung
Never seen Connerly play Was Hopeful of a local QB in
Gary Woods .Who never amounted to much Then the Tarkington
deal .
Then Chuckin' Chuck would come in to great fan approval and proceed to get the offense moving, or what passed for moving in those days. It was still the defense that mattered most, but the offense did have to put up some points to win the game.
Conerly was said to be the guy who taught the GIANTS how to win. When I first started watching them in 1955, they were an also-ran in the Eastern Division of the twelve team league. The next year (1956) they went all the way to their first league Championship since pre-war days, Madison Avenue got excited about it, and that touched off the rise of the modern NFL. So as the leader of a Championship offense in the largest city (and largest TV market not to mention the advertising capital) in the country, it can also be said that Charlie Conerly had a major role in the emergence of pro football as the premiere spectator sport in America in the late 20s century, something that he has never been given any credit for, a major snub in my opinion.
The GIANTS ran the straight T offense just like most other pro teams of that era with FB Mel Triplett lined up behind the QB and flanked by HBs Gifford and Alex Webster (who had been lured down from the CFL by the GIANTS). This was the three yards and a cloud of dust era of pro football, except that a lot of the time the cloud of dust turned out to be more line a bunch of mud balls.
One real bread and butter play was Webster on a cross-buck (halfback run to the other side of the line). Occasionally Gifford would throw a halfback option pass to somebody like ends Kyle Rote, Bob Schnelker, or Ken McAfee. Nobody ever did that better than Gifford, and sometimes it went for a long score.
One of my fondest memories was Conerly rallying the GIANTS to win late in games under the less-that-sufficient-for-tv field lights. The fans in the stands would start a low, rumbling "GOoooo Gi-ants" cheer that was repeated again and again as the Conerly-led offense ground out first downs to either put it in the EZ or set up a field goal by old Ben Agajanian who kicked with a foot that was missing a few toes. Of course, Agajanian was succeeded by Pat Summerall who kicked a lot of memorable FGs, but that is for another time.
There were good times when there were real GIANTS in Gotham City.
In all the years, I don’t ever recall reading that Gifford quote. Thanks
Then Chuckin' Chuck would come in to great fan approval and proceed to get the offense moving, or what passed for moving in those days. It was still the defense that mattered most, but the offense did have to put up some points to win the game.
Conerly was said to be the guy who taught the GIANTS how to win. When I first started watching them in 1955, they were an also-ran in the Eastern Division of the twelve team league. The next year (1956) they went all the way to their first league Championship since pre-war days, Madison Avenue got excited about it, and that touched off the rise of the modern NFL. So as the leader of a Championship offense in the largest city (and largest TV market not to mention the advertising capital) in the country, it can also be said that Charlie Conerly had a major role in the emergence of pro football as the premiere spectator sport in America in the late 20s century, something that he has never been given any credit for, a major snub in my opinion.
The GIANTS ran the straight T offense just like most other pro teams of that era with FB Mel Triplett lined up behind the QB and flanked by HBs Gifford and Alex Webster (who had been lured down from the CFL by the GIANTS). This was the three yards and a cloud of dust era of pro football, except that a lot of the time the cloud of dust turned out to be more line a bunch of mud balls.
One real bread and butter play was Webster on a cross-buck (halfback run to the other side of the line). Occasionally Gifford would throw a halfback option pass to somebody like ends Kyle Rote, Bob Schnelker, or Ken McAfee. Nobody ever did that better than Gifford, and sometimes it went for a long score.
One of my fondest memories was Conerly rallying the GIANTS to win late in games under the less-that-sufficient-for-tv field lights. The fans in the stands would start a low, rumbling "GOoooo Gi-ants" cheer that was repeated again and again as the Conerly-led offense ground out first downs to either put it in the EZ or set up a field goal by old Ben Agajanian who kicked with a foot that was missing a few toes. Of course, Agajanian was succeeded by Pat Summerall who kicked a lot of memorable FGs, but that is for another time.
There were good times when there were real GIANTS in Gotham City.
Superb summary, Red Dog
Of course you can
He met his wife Perriane in Miss and I believe she wrote a column for the NY Post on some of Charlies inside comments. There were later put in to a book of which I have an autographed copy.
The head coach insisted that Heinrichs start the games. This was stupid, gained nothing for the giants, and deprived Conerly of playing time and passing yards which would have made him a sure hall of famer. You ought to read what Gifford thought of this stupidiity of the head coach.
Conerly could surley throw the football including the deepball. The Giants jhad many weapons inckluding the three runniong backcs mTriplett, Webster and Gifford. The later was an expert at the half back option and he could come around the end and then throw the ball whcih kept defenses well off kilter. Summerall was a pretty good TE before he became strctly a kicker anthen they had some preety goood wideouts whose names I cant quite recall.
The "O" was helped by an excellent defense first with ARnie Weinmeister who was an all pro and ? HAll of famer at DE, and then they began building their 43 defenses of fame which I will not go into.
I was heat broken when YA came to replace Concerly, although Conerly was gettng so beat up he copuldn't get out of bed by the next game. Unfortunately he like all "Marlboro Man" that followed on the big board outside my fathers office, died of lung cancer.
Miss them and those days a lot.
I have recently retired and hopefully will spend more time contributing the little I can.
I did not know Conerly, but was honored as a young squirt to be a preseason ballboy in the mid sixties. I well remember Homer, Spyder, Willie, Willie Young (actually I observed he was a bit shorter than Tarkenton) Fran, Lurch and many others. They were wonderful to us and I will always be loyal to the team remembering the kindess extended to a young boy who even made his father jealous!
He was so much more than a game manager.
There is a lot of written history on Conerly that I am familiar with.
One thing that haunted Conerly throughout the majority of his Giants tenure is that his coaches were rarely 100% committed to him (though his teammates ALWAYS were).
Part of this I believe to be from his slow adjustment to the T Formation. From 1948-1953 under Steve Owen the Giants would periodically revert to the A Formation when the offense was in a slump as conerly was more comfortable playing tailback as he had done so well on college at Ole Miss. I have read game summaries where the Giants would play the first half of a game with Conerly running the A Formation, then Paul Governali or Travis Tidwell would play the second half operating the offense under center in the T Formation.
Some weeks Conerly would never come off the bench, depending on who the opposition was and how the particular flow of a game went. Owen would just run with the hot hand. This has a lot to do with Conerly's career record of 161 game appearances with only 105 of those being games started. This I believe is the #1 reason Conerly is not enshrined in Canton.
Even after the regime change in 1954 where Jim Lee Howell and Vince Lombardi fully committed the Giants to the T Formation, they tinkered with Don Heinrich starting and inserting Conerly into the game when the opportunity felt right. There were occasions where the offense played well under Heinrich and Conerly never made it onto the field.
Even in 1959, when Conerly was destined to win the NFL MVP, he was challenged by Frank Gifford for the QB position in training camp (though that idea was abandoned early in the preseason). Otherwise, between the years 1957-1960 Conerly was able to enjoy the unquestioned status as the Giants starting QB.
Of course, in 1961 YA Tittle was brought in and things went back to what they had pretty much always been. Allie Sherman loved Tittle's arm strength, but it took a while for him to overcome the player's loyalty to Conerly, who they loved.
Comparing the two, Conerly was a quiet, lead-by-example player who threw a soft, catchable ball, whereas Tittle was a fiery leader who barked at players in the huddle and had a rocket launcher for an arm. Pat Summerall said Conerly was the best holder he ever played with and attributed part of his success with the Giants to his confidence in Conerly spotting the ball exactly the way hi liked it (part of which was derived from Tom Landry's coaching).
Conerly also had a hard time winning over Giants fans until winning the title in 1956. His career arc was almost a precursor of Phil Simms. Both endured boos at home games over the first half of their careers, then they were treated as royalty after winning in 1956 and 1986 respectively.
Link - ( New Window )
Agree totally with RedDog that playing Heinrich for the opening quarter was ludicrous. Made no sense, but was
hardly every publicly criticized.
Chuckin' Charlie was the heart and soul of the Giants. He was as tough as they come and he was not only their leader, but had a damn good arm.
He was my favorite Giant when I was a youngster and his
image was even greater as Madison Avenue's Marlboro Man.
And his wife was absolutely gorgeous and she knew her
football too.
Nice memories. Good old #42.
Also thank you to truebluelarry for your great commentary on this thread. I always greatly enjoy your history additions and articles and look forward to seeing more of them.
Some are quite large, so I'll post links to them.
Enjoy.
Giants vs Chicago Cardinals program 10/17/48
https://i.imgur.com/k3Mq4Tv.jpg
Giants vs Boston Yanks program 11/28/48
https://i.imgur.com/U9OPsuB.jpg
Giants newsletter April 1949
https://i.imgur.com/ZmkQTzS.jpg
Giants at New York Bulldogs 9/30/49
https://i.imgur.com/igDZItF.jpg
Giants vs Philadelphia 12/4/49
https://i.imgur.com/dto1I5a.jpg
Giants newsletter August 1951
https://i.imgur.com/0Q37rKO.jpg
Giants vs Chicago Cardinals program 10/14/51
https://i.imgur.com/FBoYU5O.jpg
Giants vs Cleveland program 10/25/53
https://i.imgur.com/UyweA66.jpg
Giants vs Philadelphia program 11/29/53
https://i.imgur.com/IT9cUqw.jpg
Giants vs Cleveland program 11/27/55
https://i.imgur.com/BVqgKXL.jpg
Giants vs Washington program 10/27/57
https://i.imgur.com/4IMvehT.jpg
Giants at Chicago Cardinals program 10/28/58
https://i.imgur.com/DwINLff.jpg
Giants vs Washington program 11/23/58
https://i.imgur.com/rIQsI4N.jpg
Also thank you to truebluelarry for your great commentary on this thread. I always greatly enjoy your history additions and articles and look forward to seeing more of them.
Thanks Red Dog. I’d like to have weekly threads like this, so that we can discuss our perspectives of a great era of Giants football.
Thanks guys for contributing
Another reason was that tickets to the bleachers were $2, and for kids, if you arrived by noon (gametime then was 2pm), a ticket was 50 cents.
Doesn't add much to the conversation but a fun fact nonetheless.
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As many said back then Chucking Charlie Conerly with his passing was the reason why the stadium filled up
Another reason was that tickets to the bleachers were $2, and for kids, if you arrived by noon (gametime then was 2pm), a ticket was 50 cents.
Let’s not forget that sandlot game across from the Stadium that we attended before heading for Giants pregame warmups
Sorry buddy, you are..😜
Quote:
I'm no old fart!
Sorry buddy, you are..😜
Ha! Says you!
I don't remember any of the things you guys are talking about (... and I don't think it's dementia, although ...)
Quote:
In comment 14172519 baadbill said:
Quote:
I'm no old fart!
Sorry buddy, you are..😜
Ha! Says you!
I don't remember any of the things you guys are talking about (... and I don't think it's dementia, although ...)
😂
Conerly
1956 Championship Game- 7/10, 195, 2-0
1958 Championship Game- 10/14, 187, 1-0
1959 Championship Game- 17/37, 226, 1-2
Tittle
1961 Championship Game- 6/20, 65, 0-4 (no wind or injuries here)
1962 Championship Game- 18/41, 197, 0-1
1963 Championship Game- 11/29, 147, 1-5
My memory of the offense back then ('62 & '63)was of a high powered balanced O with Tittle slinging it all over the lot with Gifford, Shofner, Thomas, Morrison etc.. Unfortunately Allie Sherman dismantled the Greatest Defense at the time and in doing so turned us into cellar dwellers for the most part until Ray Perkins arrived. For those of you who think it's bad now, you haven't seen anything like 1964-1980.
Btw, I should clarify my “game manager” comment. It differs radically from the concept of game-managing in today’s NFL. The big difference was the reliance back then on the ground game. Not relied on today nearly as much, generally speaking
Btw, I should clarify my “game manager” comment. It differs radically from the concept of game-managing in today’s NFL. The big difference was the reliance back then on the ground game. Not relied on today nearly as much, generally speaking
I think a big difference was that QBs (all of them?) called their own games back then. I presume the week's practices involved the "theory" of the game plan, but execution (i.e. the actual plays being called) was left to the QB. That's a real "game manager".