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NFT: Any HVAC guys here?

Britt in VA : 11/12/2018 9:37 am
So upstairs heat stopped working. Super efficient, natural gas heater, unit is a Bryant, 13 years old.

Had big company come out yesterday. He opens it up and spins the motor, and it starts right up, but says he smells something. Goes and gets CO2 meter and says he is getting low level CO2 readings. Checks for cracks. Can't find anything.

Says that anything 10 and under on the CO2 reading is what they consider safe. Said he got readings of 14 at one vent, and one reading as high as 42 at another upstairs. He said 200-400 is what can kill you.

Gives me two options:

1st Option, replace both heat exchanges, but this is a temporary fix he says, to get us through 2 or 3 years.

2nd Option: Replace whole thing for 9000. Says since it's 13 years old and we are staying here for awhile this is the best option.

Getting a second opinion today.

Told my brother in law, and he said this same thing happened to him almost identically, but his wife got so freaked out about the CO2 thing she called the fire department. The fire department came out and said that some of the bigger companies were doing this in order to get people to replace their furnaces. He said he got the fix done much cheaper than what the first place initially quoted and with no CO2 danger.

I've got an independent guy coming today for a second opinion.

You can't put a price on your life, but how do you know who to trust if companies are using fear tactics to sell you a new furnace?

Anybody had a similar situation?
Not an HVAC guy  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 11/12/2018 9:50 am : link
but CO2 is odorless unless it's at super high concentrations so if he's implying that what he was smelling was CO2, I'm calling BS on that. Sounds funny to me, I'd definitely get a 2nd opinion based on that alone.
Yeah, he described it as a burning smell....  
Britt in VA : 11/12/2018 9:52 am : link
when he opened it. This was before he went to get the CO2 meter. I should have clarified, I knew CO2 was oderless, I don't think he was trying to imply he actually smelled CO2.
I did not smell anything at all, though.  
Britt in VA : 11/12/2018 9:53 am : link
.
Ahh  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 11/12/2018 9:54 am : link
Yeah, that makes much more sense as a mechanical/motor smell. Still, keep that second appointment. 9Gs is a lot to fork over without having someone else take a look regardless.
Oh yeah, I'm going to get multiple quotes on this....  
Britt in VA : 11/12/2018 10:01 am : link
if that's the case.
_________  
I am Ninja : 11/12/2018 10:05 am : link
my 15 year old house burned down in august. we had been there 30 days. was mechanical, but not hvac. 16, 20, 40 whatever, the things you never think can happen to you, can.
Britt  
figgy2989 : 11/12/2018 10:07 am : link
Definitely doing the right thing by getting multiple quotes/people to come in and take a look.

If your wife is anything like mind, maybe buying a CO2 meter would put her mind at ease. Unsure if you would want to go that route, but a couple of hundred bucks on a portable meter would put her mind at ease.
Sorry to hear that, no I'm not taking any chances....  
Britt in VA : 11/12/2018 10:07 am : link
just want to make sure I get a consensus opinion.
*mine  
figgy2989 : 11/12/2018 10:07 am : link
.
RE: Britt  
Britt in VA : 11/12/2018 10:08 am : link
In comment 14172547 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
Definitely doing the right thing by getting multiple quotes/people to come in and take a look.

If your wife is anything like mind, maybe buying a CO2 meter would put her mind at ease. Unsure if you would want to go that route, but a couple of hundred bucks on a portable meter would put her mind at ease.


We have a C02 alarm/monitor downstairs, but not upstairs. Think I will install one regardless.
Damn iphone  
figgy2989 : 11/12/2018 10:08 am : link
sorry for the double sentence post.

Good luck.
RE: Not an HVAC guy  
Beer Man : 11/12/2018 10:59 am : link
In comment 14172531 Cap'n Bluebeard said:
Quote:
but CO2 is odorless unless it's at super high concentrations so if he's implying that what he was smelling was CO2, I'm calling BS on that. Sounds funny to me, I'd definitely get a 2nd opinion based on that alone.
+1
RE: RE: Not an HVAC guy  
Beer Man : 11/12/2018 11:01 am : link
In comment 14172635 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 14172531 Cap'n Bluebeard said:


Quote:


but CO2 is odorless unless it's at super high concentrations so if he's implying that what he was smelling was CO2, I'm calling BS on that. Sounds funny to me, I'd definitely get a 2nd opinion based on that alone.

+1
For that reason, I have CO2 meters on every level of my home. They are supposed to be replaced every six years, but they are worth the piece of mind.
13 yrs  
dorgan : 11/12/2018 11:10 am : link
would be somewhat unusual to have a cracked heat exchanger in 13 years but not impossible. Bryants usually have a life expectancy of 17-20 years.

You're following the right path by getting multiple estimates and having a couple of technicians check it out.

RE: RE: RE: Not an HVAC guy  
Jim in Fairfax : 11/12/2018 11:42 am : link
In comment 14172639 Beer Man said:
Quote:
For that reason, I have CO2 meters on every level of my home. They are supposed to be replaced every six years, but they are worth the piece of mind.

I’m guessing what you actually have are CO meters.
If it was a cracked heat exchange....  
Britt in VA : 11/12/2018 11:42 am : link
you think I'm far enough along to just replace that and kick it down the road a ways, or just go ahead and replace it.

There are two heat exchanges that they would replace.
Heat exchanges vs. entire furnace, I meant.  
Britt in VA : 11/12/2018 11:46 am : link
.
definitely go out today and get a co2 detector  
oghwga : 11/12/2018 11:48 am : link
if your house is newer and has hard wired detectors you can get a combo smoke/co2 that will set them all off if there's trouble.

My bet is that the first guy was screwing you with a hard sell. Shitty tactics don't give him your business.
How much is option 1?  
UConn4523 : 11/12/2018 11:50 am : link
if it’s significantly less and would fix it, I’d be inclined to try that first. But it depends on price. $9k is a lot of money for something you may not need to do yet.
Yeah, replacing the two heat exchanges would be in the....  
Britt in VA : 11/12/2018 11:51 am : link
1500 to 2000 range I think.
RE: definitely go out today and get a co2 detector  
Jim in Fairfax : 11/12/2018 12:04 pm : link
In comment 14172715 oghwga said:
Quote:
if your house is newer and has hard wired detectors you can get a combo smoke/co2 that will set them all off if there's trouble.

My bet is that the first guy was screwing you with a hard sell. Shitty tactics don't give him your business.

Again, that would be a combo Smoke/CO detector. — carbon monoxide. They’re talking about CO2 - carbon dioxide, which is not a typical alarm sensor for home use.
Yeah, this is the dangerous stuff, I made the mistake of  
Britt in VA : 11/12/2018 12:09 pm : link
saying CO2 in my op, but I meant CO. The bad one.
RE: If it was a cracked heat exchange....  
dorgan : 11/12/2018 12:16 pm : link
In comment 14172706 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
you think I'm far enough along to just replace that and kick it down the road a ways, or just go ahead and replace it.

There are two heat exchanges that they would replace.


What model is your furnace?
RE: RE: If it was a cracked heat exchange....  
Britt in VA : 11/12/2018 12:33 pm : link
In comment 14172757 dorgan said:
Quote:
In comment 14172706 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


you think I'm far enough along to just replace that and kick it down the road a ways, or just go ahead and replace it.

There are two heat exchanges that they would replace.



What model is your furnace?


2005 Bryant Plus 90 High Efficiency Gas Furnace from the Legacy Line
Britt  
dorgan : 11/12/2018 12:47 pm : link
that model does have a secondary heat exchanger.

Can't help you from here. If you lived closer I could take a look at it for you.

Appreciate that, dorgan....  
Britt in VA : 11/12/2018 12:49 pm : link
I know nothing and sometimes these guys are shady. I do have a guy that a contractor friend of mine works with and trusts coming out this afternoon, so we'll see.
Yeh. We had an issue several years ago  
Bubba : 11/12/2018 2:12 pm : link
The contractor we had a service agreement with conducted a "routine" test and found dangerous levels of CO2 and condemned our unit. He then gave us a $10K estimate to replace it. I contacted another guy who can out and said there was nothing wrong with our unit. He had 3 different testers and all were negative. I called back the guy we had the contract with and told him what we were told. He came back out with a new tester and said gee the other one must have gone bad. I fired him on the spot.



Take it seriously but I’d do your research  
UConn4523 : 11/12/2018 2:26 pm : link
you can by your own meter for under 50 and measure the levels yourself. Blast the heat and see what it’s goving off. If they are elevated but not horrible I’d go with option 1 and do a weekly test to make sure it worked. I’d also mount detectors near the vents that are giving you issues.

$9k seems ridiculous. Being scared is good because you will take action but don’t get scared into possibly making a choice you don’t need to.

Also, for you 2nd and 3rd opinions, don’t tell them what the first guy said. Go in with a clean slate with each new estimate.
Some good advice, here....  
Britt in VA : 11/12/2018 3:03 pm : link
Thanks all.
so what was the end result  
oghwga : 11/13/2018 1:28 pm : link
?
RE: so what was the end result  
Britt in VA : 11/13/2018 1:40 pm : link
In comment 14176391 oghwga said:
Quote:
?


Thanks for asking. As a matter of fact, I just got off the phone with my wife.

We had another independent guy coming tomorrow, but today, we had a bigger company scheduled.

They came out, said there is nothing wrong with either heat exchange that they could find, they replaced the capacitor and it started right up. $200 fix. They said in the future, the blower motor might need to be repaired, but that this particular unit should be good for 20-25 years, and we're only at year 13.

They also said that they were not concerned about CO at all. Didn't even measure despite what we told them. They said get a couple of CO monitors upstairs for peace of mind.
you  
oghwga : 11/13/2018 2:20 pm : link
should report that other HVAC company. What a bunch of BS. I hate when companies use scare tactics to try and upsell people. Predatory assholes.
I was  
dorgan : 11/13/2018 2:35 pm : link
pretty sure you were going to end up with this or a similar result.

The wholesale price on your furnace is probably less than 3k. 30% mark up doesn't get you anywhere near the price that would justify the estimate you got.

9K for a swap out job is ludicrous.

9k would include new ducting, not a simple swap out of one unit to a new one.

It really should be illegal to do what they did....  
Britt in VA : 11/13/2018 2:38 pm : link
I'm glad I did my due diligence.

Thanks for the advice guys.
man, i don't consider myself to be super naive  
bigbluehoya : 11/13/2018 2:45 pm : link
but hearing about stuff like this really makes me angry/sad.

Glad you didn't get taken to the cleaners, Britt.
Well it sucks....  
Britt in VA : 11/13/2018 2:47 pm : link
They measure the vents in your kids' rooms.... Then they tell me the highest reading for Carbon Monoxide is in my seven year old son's bedroom vent.

Of course you're going to freak out.
Agree with Dorgan  
UConn4523 : 11/13/2018 2:48 pm : link
$9k was ridiculous.
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