Number in parenthesis is # of games back in SOS, e.g. -5.5 means the Giants SOS is 5.5 games weaker than the listed team which (if continued) would have them pick ahead of that team in case of a tie. So negative numbers are good for picking ahead in case of a tie, and positive numbers are bad.
1. OAK 1-8 (-5.5)
2. SF 2-8 (+2.5)
3. NYG 2-7
4. ARI 2-7 (-2)
5. NYJ 3-7 (+4.5)
6. BUF 3-7 (-0.5)
7. DET 3-6 (+0.5)
8. DEN 3-6 (-1.5)
9. JAC 3-6 (-3.5)
10. TB 3-6 (-4.5)
11. CLE 3-6-1 (-5.5)*
*NYG or CLE would have to play a tie game for this tiebreaker to be relevant
This does not take into account that there are future games that automatically add 1 win and 1 loss to SOS (i.e. when two teams on a team’s schedule play each other). I’ll start doing that around week 12.
Williams is a far better player than Little.. but Little is an offensive lineman...
Watch out for the teams trading up....and it's becoming more and more clear that Gruden is going to take a QB.
maybe 32nd :)
yes.
Quote:
....if we finish 9-7?
maybe 32nd :)
Wouldn't that make for an amazing "America's Game"
...OT Jonah WIlliams at #3 from Alabama.
...OT Jonah WIlliams at #3 from Alabama.
Win a few more and we'll be in the 6-10 range which will be perfect for Jonah.
Nate-Will-C-Jamon-Jonah will do. Still don't think Spencer is the answer nor is Halapio.
But sure rip on people who would rather go 1-15 than 4-12.
But sure rip on people who would rather go 1-15 than 4-12.
Eli Apple was a shitty pick because of shitty talent evaluating, not because of where the Giants were picking.
Rooting for your team to lose is absolutely pathetic.
But sure rip on people who would rather go 1-15 than 4-12.
What if we slide to 12 and take the next OBJ?
But sure rip on people who would rather go 1-15 than 4-12.
People get ripped on for going ape shit about the possibility of losing the number one pick because they treat it like it's #1 pick or bust, or acting as if it guarantees anything. As for my view, I believe culture makes a difference. I believe teams need to experience winning.
Quote:
Only 2 QB needy teams in the top 7
Watch out for the teams trading up....and it's becoming more and more clear that Gruden is going to take a QB.
I said this a couple of weeks ago, but Herbert is already a Raider.
Looks like a win against Tampa (which is possible) drops the Giants out of the top 10.
Quote:
The difference between picking top 5 and picking 10th means you get Eli Apple instead of Jaylen Ramsey.
But sure rip on people who would rather go 1-15 than 4-12.
Eli Apple was a shitty pick because of shitty talent evaluating, not because of where the Giants were picking.
Rooting for your team to lose is absolutely pathetic.
Is wanting the best draft position possible pathetic? Will it make you feel any better if they go 3-13 instead of 1-15?
The “you’re a terrible fan if you root for your team to lose” for a team that has won 5 total games in their last 25 is a stupid position.
I’d rather root for for a team to acquire the best talent possible than win a couple extra games for sentimental reasons. Being as high as possible in the draft helps in doing that, and not just in the first round.
Quote:
A few Mike Evans bombs and TWO tight ends we can't cover as opposed to the usual one.
they have Desean Jackson. We’re definitely losing.
They have the shell of Desean Jackson.
Quote:
In comment 14175559 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
The difference between picking top 5 and picking 10th means you get Eli Apple instead of Jaylen Ramsey.
But sure rip on people who would rather go 1-15 than 4-12.
Eli Apple was a shitty pick because of shitty talent evaluating, not because of where the Giants were picking.
Rooting for your team to lose is absolutely pathetic.
Is wanting the best draft position possible pathetic? Will it make you feel any better if they go 3-13 instead of 1-15?
The “you’re a terrible fan if you root for your team to lose” for a team that has won 5 total games in their last 25 is a stupid position.
I’d rather root for for a team to acquire the best talent possible than win a couple extra games for sentimental reasons. Being as high as possible in the draft helps in doing that, and not just in the first round.
It's true that better draft positioning helps, but building a winning culture also helps. Sometimes a player is a bust because of the team they go to.
Ereck Flowers is actually a good example, believe it or not. In his rookie year under Coughlin, he actually resembled a legitimate NFL player. He fell apart afterward. If Coughlin had stayed on, maybe he develops Flowers? Who knows.
Quote:
The difference between picking top 5 and picking 10th means you get Eli Apple instead of Jaylen Ramsey.
But sure rip on people who would rather go 1-15 than 4-12.
People get ripped on for going ape shit about the possibility of losing the number one pick because they treat it like it's #1 pick or bust, or acting as if it guarantees anything. As for my view, I believe culture makes a difference. I believe teams need to experience winning.
We’re liking looking at another large roster turnover again. By the time this team is ready to win, a large portion of the roster won’t even be here. Winning games at the end of the season doesn’t do as much for culture as you think, and most of these guys have experienced winning at the college level.
Winning right for this franchise is acquiring as much elite talent as possible. You can root for wins, the people who are rooting for losses aren’t wrong or bad fans.
Quote:
In comment 14175574 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
In comment 14175559 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
The difference between picking top 5 and picking 10th means you get Eli Apple instead of Jaylen Ramsey.
But sure rip on people who would rather go 1-15 than 4-12.
Eli Apple was a shitty pick because of shitty talent evaluating, not because of where the Giants were picking.
Rooting for your team to lose is absolutely pathetic.
Is wanting the best draft position possible pathetic? Will it make you feel any better if they go 3-13 instead of 1-15?
The “you’re a terrible fan if you root for your team to lose” for a team that has won 5 total games in their last 25 is a stupid position.
I’d rather root for for a team to acquire the best talent possible than win a couple extra games for sentimental reasons. Being as high as possible in the draft helps in doing that, and not just in the first round.
It's true that better draft positioning helps, but building a winning culture also helps. Sometimes a player is a bust because of the team they go to.
Ereck Flowers is actually a good example, believe it or not. In his rookie year under Coughlin, he actually resembled a legitimate NFL player. He fell apart afterward. If Coughlin had stayed on, maybe he develops Flowers? Who knows.
Flowers had zero interest in being coached. It was the knock on him out of Miami and it continued into the NFL.
The Jamarcus Russell of left tackles.
Quote:
In comment 14175559 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
The difference between picking top 5 and picking 10th means you get Eli Apple instead of Jaylen Ramsey.
But sure rip on people who would rather go 1-15 than 4-12.
People get ripped on for going ape shit about the possibility of losing the number one pick because they treat it like it's #1 pick or bust, or acting as if it guarantees anything. As for my view, I believe culture makes a difference. I believe teams need to experience winning.
We’re liking looking at another large roster turnover again. By the time this team is ready to win, a large portion of the roster won’t even be here. Winning games at the end of the season doesn’t do as much for culture as you think, and most of these guys have experienced winning at the college level.
Winning right for this franchise is acquiring as much elite talent as possible. You can root for wins, the people who are rooting for losses aren’t wrong or bad fans.
But you are saying this as if it's fact. Saying winning culture doesn't matter as much as I think symbols absolute solid fact when it's a matter of opinion.
If the roster turns over a lot next season the NY giants are still attributed with a losing franchise. The team will still need to learn to win together while forming an identity. In my opinion
Quote:
In comment 14175559 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
The difference between picking top 5 and picking 10th means you get Eli Apple instead of Jaylen Ramsey.
But sure rip on people who would rather go 1-15 than 4-12.
Eli Apple was a shitty pick because of shitty talent evaluating, not because of where the Giants were picking.
Rooting for your team to lose is absolutely pathetic.
Is wanting the best draft position possible pathetic? Will it make you feel any better if they go 3-13 instead of 1-15?
The “you’re a terrible fan if you root for your team to lose” for a team that has won 5 total games in their last 25 is a stupid position.
I’d rather root for for a team to acquire the best talent possible than win a couple extra games for sentimental reasons. Being as high as possible in the draft helps in doing that, and not just in the first round.
This
Quote:
In comment 14175578 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 14175559 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
The difference between picking top 5 and picking 10th means you get Eli Apple instead of Jaylen Ramsey.
But sure rip on people who would rather go 1-15 than 4-12.
People get ripped on for going ape shit about the possibility of losing the number one pick because they treat it like it's #1 pick or bust, or acting as if it guarantees anything. As for my view, I believe culture makes a difference. I believe teams need to experience winning.
We’re liking looking at another large roster turnover again. By the time this team is ready to win, a large portion of the roster won’t even be here. Winning games at the end of the season doesn’t do as much for culture as you think, and most of these guys have experienced winning at the college level.
Winning right for this franchise is acquiring as much elite talent as possible. You can root for wins, the people who are rooting for losses aren’t wrong or bad fans.
But you are saying this as if it's fact. Saying winning culture doesn't matter as much as I think symbols absolute solid fact when it's a matter of opinion.
If the roster turns over a lot next season the NY giants are still attributed with a losing franchise. The team will still need to learn to win together while forming an identity. In my opinion
Winning culture is a myth. What was Jacksonville and the Rams records in 2016? That stopped them from winning games in 2017?
What was the Bears record last year? Did that mess with Tribusky and keep them from being good this year?
The carry over of a couple of extra wins on a bad team doesn’t matter.
If Gruden wants Hebert then lets trade him for Carr. Young, talented, and proven. Not a risk like a draft pick.
Winning culture is a myth. What was Jacksonville and the Rams records in 2016? That stopped them from winning games in 2017?
What was the Bears record last year? Did that mess with Tribusky and keep them from being good this year?
The carry over of a couple of extra wins on a bad team doesn’t matter.
Bullshit. You just don't grasp the importance because it's not tangible and doesn't offer instant gratification like a shiny new top 5 pick on draft day.
At what point is it OK for the Giants to begin this journey?
Why would it be a bad thing for more players current on the roster to show that they are part of the solution?
Quote:
Winning culture is a myth. What was Jacksonville and the Rams records in 2016? That stopped them from winning games in 2017?
What was the Bears record last year? Did that mess with Tribusky and keep them from being good this year?
The carry over of a couple of extra wins on a bad team doesn’t matter.
Bullshit. You just don't grasp the importance because it's not tangible and doesn't offer instant gratification like a shiny new top 5 pick on draft day.
You develop winning cultures by acquiring players you can win with, not going 4-12 and winning three games in the second half. Jacksonville didn’t get better by winning a couple of games they got better when they added Ramsey and Smith.
If you think this current roster will be better because they won 3 more games this year, you’re fooling yourself.
Quote:
In comment 14175646 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Winning culture is a myth. What was Jacksonville and the Rams records in 2016? That stopped them from winning games in 2017?
What was the Bears record last year? Did that mess with Tribusky and keep them from being good this year?
The carry over of a couple of extra wins on a bad team doesn’t matter.
Bullshit. You just don't grasp the importance because it's not tangible and doesn't offer instant gratification like a shiny new top 5 pick on draft day.
You develop winning cultures by acquiring players you can win with, not going 4-12 and winning three games in the second half. Jacksonville didn’t get better by winning a couple of games they got better when they added Ramsey and Smith.
If you think this current roster will be better because they won 3 more games this year, you’re fooling yourself.
You win as many games as you can and you draft the best players you can according to where you are selecting. Its not an either or situation.
And you can't get better with a top 10 pick instead of a top 5 pick?
Quote:
In comment 14175646 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Winning culture is a myth. What was Jacksonville and the Rams records in 2016? That stopped them from winning games in 2017?
What was the Bears record last year? Did that mess with Tribusky and keep them from being good this year?
The carry over of a couple of extra wins on a bad team doesn’t matter.
Bullshit. You just don't grasp the importance because it's not tangible and doesn't offer instant gratification like a shiny new top 5 pick on draft day.
You develop winning cultures by acquiring players you can win with, not going 4-12 and winning three games in the second half. Jacksonville didn’t get better by winning a couple of games they got better when they added Ramsey and Smith.
If you think this current roster will be better because they won 3 more games this year, you’re fooling yourself.
Let's just hope the Giants lose every game for the next couple years. Gotta draft that talent.
I'm not saying you should be rooting for them to lose or can't enjoy a win. By all means, do that. It's natural. But to try to make the argument that winning is good for this team is just false. Personally, it's mixed emotions for me. I'm happy to watch my team win a game, happy for Eli and the guys on the roster but know that win slightly hurts our chances of improving this roster.
I'm not saying you should be rooting for them to lose or can't enjoy a win. By all means, do that. It's natural. But to try to make the argument that winning is good for this team is just false. Personally, it's mixed emotions for me. I'm happy to watch my team win a game, happy for Eli and the guys on the roster but know that win slightly hurts our chances of improving this roster.
You make it sound like teams should just not even bother with the draft if they aren't in the top 5 because the other players in the draft won't significantly improve the roster.
There are plenty of good players drafted in picks 6-10 and even beyond that are excellent. You don't need to pick the top player at every position every year in the draft. You need a competent scouting department that can ensure you hit on whatever player you select in the first round.
A higher pick is by definition more valuable than a lower pick. And it can be measured.
For example the jets won 5 games last year. The colts won 4 games. The jets wanted the Colts pick. And they paid 3 2nd round picks to move up those 3 spots. 3 2nd round picks.
The draft positions the jets lost by getting 1 extra win were worth 3 2nd round picks. (I'm not going to bother getting into the tiebreakers because the point stands).
Winning games may be fun. May help build the team. Makes people happy. All that stuff. And I'm not going to dispute that - people have their own motivations, their own preferences that bring them happiness. Fine with me. Just acknowledge that there is real, quantifiable value in the draft associated with a teams final record.
At what point is it OK for the Giants to begin this journey?
Why would it be a bad thing for more players current on the roster to show that they are part of the solution?
Jacksonville picked Leonard Fournette at 4th overall in 2017 and was in the AFC Championship game in 2017.
"Most likely" might be overstating it a bit. It's possible they drop to 6, but just as possible that they don't win another game.
"Guessing"? These teams employ large scouting departments, it's not fucking guessing. Some teams are better at spotting talent than others. It's not exact science, but it isn't guessing.
Quote:
I'm not saying they won't be able to find a good player, I'm saying the likelihood of finding a good player decreases. Roster building is guessing, some teams are better at guessing than others, but they're all just throwing darts. There's a reason why it costs a fortune to move up just 2-3 places into the top 5. Which leads to another point, every slot high in the draft carries with it value and capital. We are bleeding resources by winning. Slowly and not in a significant way, but it is happening.
"Guessing"? These teams employ large scouting departments, it's not fucking guessing. Some teams are better at spotting talent than others. It's not exact science, but it isn't guessing.
I hate to break it to you, but you just described "guessing".
Quote:
In comment 14175559 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
The difference between picking top 5 and picking 10th means you get Eli Apple instead of Jaylen Ramsey.
But sure rip on people who would rather go 1-15 than 4-12.
Eli Apple was a shitty pick because of shitty talent evaluating, not because of where the Giants were picking.
Rooting for your team to lose is absolutely pathetic.
Is wanting the best draft position possible pathetic? Will it make you feel any better if they go 3-13 instead of 1-15?
The “you’re a terrible fan if you root for your team to lose” for a team that has won 5 total games in their last 25 is a stupid position.
I’d rather root for for a team to acquire the best talent possible than win a couple extra games for sentimental reasons. Being as high as possible in the draft helps in doing that, and not just in the first round.
Quote:
At some point they need to become average, then above average, then pretty good.
At what point is it OK for the Giants to begin this journey?
Why would it be a bad thing for more players current on the roster to show that they are part of the solution?
Jacksonville picked Leonard Fournette at 4th overall in 2017 and was in the AFC Championship game in 2017.
Those both appear to be flukes, not the blueprint for continued success.
At some point. If you want to win the SB you are much better being one of the teams that picks in the 20s or 30s every year.