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Landon Collins was abused

Hammer : 11/13/2018 8:41 am
all night long by Kittle.

I know absolutely nothing about Kittle, but Collins play was hard to watch.
Honestly  
5BowlsSoon : 11/13/2018 8:42 am : link
I don't know why he gets so much love. Not good in coverage....much like Ogletree
He was great making tackles 20 yards down the field  
Jints in Carolina : 11/13/2018 8:43 am : link
and also trying to jump the route for an INT instead of making a tackle.
We knew that about Collins already  
ATL_Giants : 11/13/2018 8:43 am : link
He's not a coverage Safety.
If he can’t even stay close to a TE, he might as well play LB.  
Ivan15 : 11/13/2018 8:46 am : link
Maybe he needs to bulk up and replace Vernon.
Collins wasn't good....  
Eli Wilson : 11/13/2018 8:46 am : link
but Kittle would do that to just about any safety in man coverage.

He's the type of guy that should have someone hitting him on the line of scrimmage so he cannot get a free release.
Kittle  
GoDeep13 : 11/13/2018 8:50 am : link
Is arguably a top 3 TE in the league. And I’d honestly put him #1 when it comes to being a complete TE. Dude is an absolute hoss in the run game along with being a pass catching threat. Week in and week out he’s the 49ers biggest weapon and no one seems capable of stopping him.


So it’s not like Landon was playing a scrub.
It helps  
stoneman : 11/13/2018 8:54 am : link
when you have all day to throw. Now that the OLine has made some strides, gotta fix the pass rush now :)
Collins had a rough game  
eclipz928 : 11/13/2018 8:54 am : link
But George Kittle is also having a pro bowl type season (despite being on a bad team). I wouldn't read too much I'm to this game in regards to LC.
I could be wrong but ... wasn’t Kittle  
Spider56 : 11/13/2018 8:57 am : link
a 5th round pick in the same draft that brought us Engram at number 1 ?
The guy you have to question  
mittenedman : 11/13/2018 9:01 am : link
is Bettcher.

He's been nothing like he was advertised to be so far.

On another note - why is it that, regardless of what scheme a guy runs before he gets here, every defensive coordinator uses the same gameplan here?

A blitzer extraordinaire like Bettcher should've had something ready for Mullens. Kittle's been the guy all year for SF and we acted like we had no idea who he was. He's their #1 option and our answer was to line Collins 1on1 with him like he's Rhett Ellison.
Kittle has quickly developed into one of the Top TEs in the NFL  
jlukes : 11/13/2018 9:04 am : link
Probably would only put him behind Ertz and Kelce in terms of consistent production (Gronk is pretty much toast at this point)
Kittle has excellent speed, but not a phenom  
Bob in Newburgh : 11/13/2018 9:12 am : link
Since I saw little of Kittle using size advantage to defeat Collins, I was troubled by lack of coverage skill against a TE.

In a passing League, based on this game, we should be in no hurry to re-sign, or franchise LC.
RE: I could be wrong but ... wasn’t Kittle  
SirLoinOfBeef : 11/13/2018 9:13 am : link
In comment 14175682 Spider56 said:
Quote:
a 5th round pick in the same draft that brought us Engram at number 1 ?


You are correct sir!

Yet everybody cries when we pick a RB in round one because we can always find one in the later rounds like the Saints did with Kamara. And we picked Engram in the first round of a deep TE draft.

Another Reese draft blunder. God he was awful.
Agreed  
mittenedman : 11/13/2018 9:15 am : link
RE: Engram pick. Don't even get me started.

And the kicker? Engram isn't even a full-time TE. He's an H-Back who ran a 4.4 so Reese had to have him, even with his OLine in shambles and multiple starting OLs on the board.
Kittle  
Archer : 11/13/2018 9:23 am : link
What a pleasure to see a TE that can block and run patterns.

They singled Kittle up against the DEs and he held his own.

It would be great if the Giants could find a really good two way TE.
Collins can't  
Doomster : 11/13/2018 9:24 am : link
cover TE's, RB's, whatever.....they don't have to be named Kittle....yet let's sign him to a big contract....

When will we ever get a TE to move the chains?

Engram? Besides dropsies, does not run precise patterns, does not fight to make the hard catch, and his speed is grossly exaggerated.....I never see separation in coverage on him.....he may "time" well, but not with football gear on...
Agreed that EE has had too many troubling drops  
Bob in Newburgh : 11/13/2018 9:24 am : link
However, he has never had a brilliant OC.

I have tried to imagine SB, EE, OBJ, SS playing in the 49 system we saw last night.

That is a system I could see Lauletta running.
Can the true  
joeinpa : 11/13/2018 9:26 am : link
Booger told us before the game, Collins is good in coverage
I would suggest  
ThatLimerickGuy : 11/13/2018 9:26 am : link
that a performance like Collins had on Monday Night Football last night cost him 5-10 million dollars over the life of his next contract.
This was a typical game for Kittle  
ron mexico : 11/13/2018 9:30 am : link
guy is a good player. Good players are going to make plays
Collins  
dorgan : 11/13/2018 9:34 am : link
was beaten multiple times. That's very true.
After the first two-three times those beatings are on his coach. When you're asking a guy to do something he's incapable of and there's a remedy available to help him and you don't use it... that's on you coach.
RE: Collins  
crick n NC : 11/13/2018 9:35 am : link
In comment 14175788 dorgan said:
Quote:
was beaten multiple times. That's very true.
After the first two-three times those beatings are on his coach. When you're asking a guy to do something he's incapable of and there's a remedy available to help him and you don't use it... that's on you coach.


Thanks dorgan
for people saying his weakness is he can't cover...  
mphbullet36 : 11/13/2018 9:36 am : link
but he can tackle?

What the point of having a safety who a majority of the time is in coverage being his weakness?

That like being ok with a QB in the NFL who can't throw.
It should be no surprise that Collins is a liability in pass coverage  
Rick in Dallas : 11/13/2018 9:40 am : link
He is a in the box strong safety. Earlier in the season he was also missing a bunch of tackles. His strength is at the LOS.
We can only hope he receives a contract based on that and not overpaid.
RE: for people saying his weakness is he can't cover...  
Mdgiantsfan : 11/13/2018 9:43 am : link
In comment 14175793 mphbullet36 said:
Quote:
but he can tackle?

What the point of having a safety who a majority of the time is in coverage being his weakness?

That like being ok with a QB in the NFL who can't throw.


I kept thinking that's too bad we can't convert him to LB. He'd still be called on to cover.
Collins was not good in coverage  
Vanzetti : 11/13/2018 9:46 am : link
But Ogletree was so much worse. I have never seen a LB routinely get beaten so badly
Uglytree was beaten in preseason,  
Doomster : 11/13/2018 9:51 am : link
and most of BBI said, it's only preseason.....has one FA brought in by DG panned out?

Name one!
yeah.. Kittle is awesome.  
EricJ : 11/13/2018 9:57 am : link
he is abusing everyone this year. Not sure who you want to play SS for us if we let Collins go and whether you would have seen different results last night
RE: Uglytree was beaten in preseason,  
Mike from Ohio : 11/13/2018 10:03 am : link
In comment 14175830 Doomster said:
Quote:
and most of BBI said, it's only preseason.....has one FA brought in by DG panned out?

Name one!


Actually Ogletree wasn't a FA. They gave up picks for him!
RE: Kittle  
bw in dc : 11/13/2018 10:12 am : link
In comment 14175668 GoDeep13 said:
Quote:
Is arguably a top 3 TE in the league. And I’d honestly put him #1 when it comes to being a complete TE. Dude is an absolute hoss in the run game along with being a pass catching threat. Week in and week out he’s the 49ers biggest weapon and no one seems capable of stopping him.


So it’s not like Landon was playing a scrub.


This is noteworthy. Kittle is extremely underrated and arguably one of the top 3 TEs in the NFL...indeed. He’s a very tough cover.
He really was  
Mike in Long Beach : 11/13/2018 10:13 am : link
and while Collins sometimes gets abused in deep coverage against the WRs, he can usually at least hold his own when dealing with the RB/TE.

That was a bad showing last night.
"Actually Ogletree wasn't a FA. They gave up picks for him!"  
Doomster : 11/13/2018 10:21 am : link
I stand corrected.....outside of the draft, name one player DG has acquired that has made an impact on offense or defense....
That's the thing with Collins  
widmerseyebrow : 11/13/2018 10:42 am : link
He never seems to win when going against the better receivers in the league. I really hope the tag rumors/long term contracts are false. The guy is solidly above average.
Collins  
Giants : 11/13/2018 10:52 am : link
I've said it before Collins is good against the run but he could not cover Eli Manning if he had to
RE: He was great making tackles 20 yards down the field  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 11/13/2018 10:55 am : link
In comment 14175655 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
and also trying to jump the route for an INT instead of making a tackle.


That play pissed me off. If he just allows a completion and makes a routine tackle on a ball he didn't even have a realistic shot of intercepting, they're punting to us with around a minute left in the half. Instead, the 49ers go down and score.

Imagine we lost? All the talk would be about Manning's underthrow, but this would have been the play that really turned the game around considering the defense allowed almost an 8 minute scoring drive to open the second half as well.
Collins looked like he was running flat footed last night.  
BillKo : 11/13/2018 11:57 am : link
Guy definitely would be more suited for playing weak side LB IMO...........
Why yes  
Carson53 : 11/13/2018 12:10 pm : link
yes he was! He is looking less and less like someone
to invest in long term. If they put a FT on him next year,
that will be in the 12 mill. range I read.
RE: Kittle  
Carson53 : 11/13/2018 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14175753 Archer said:
Quote:
What a pleasure to see a TE that can block and run patterns.

They singled Kittle up against the DEs and he held his own.

It would be great if the Giants could find a really good two way TE.
.

Amen to that, in this day and age. I like this guy Kittle.
Just like Gettleman's refrain re Eli's play against Philly last year  
FranknWeezer : 11/13/2018 1:14 pm : link
lending him to believe Eli still "has it" (and I'm not saying he does or doesn't), Gettleman needs to put on the tape of this SF game when it comes time to decide whether to extend, franchise or whatever Landon Collins. He's not worth the money he's going to command. We can get someone a hell of a lot cheaper to blow assignments against TE's, trail them in coverage, miss tackles and spout off to the media about things that should stay in the locker room. If I'm the Giants, I'm done with him after this season.
We need a Kittle on this team  
idiotsavant : 11/13/2018 1:21 pm : link
He also rag dolled Collins on a run block.

Run.Block.

Jeeeeeeeesus we repeat ourselves.
RE: The guy you have to question  
Leg of Theismann : 11/13/2018 3:46 pm : link
In comment 14175688 mittenedman said:
Quote:
is Bettcher.

He's been nothing like he was advertised to be so far.

On another note - why is it that, regardless of what scheme a guy runs before he gets here, every defensive coordinator uses the same gameplan here?

A blitzer extraordinaire like Bettcher should've had something ready for Mullens. Kittle's been the guy all year for SF and we acted like we had no idea who he was. He's their #1 option and our answer was to line Collins 1on1 with him like he's Rhett Ellison.


Can't remember who said this, but when you're playing a young inexperienced QB, you want to drop back and play heavy coverage, force him to make the proper reads and beat you. The speed of NFL defenses and the way they disguise coverages is far beyond difficult compared to what any young guy has seen in high-school/college. Now, when you play Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers, they're going to pick apart your coverage even if you drop 8 on every play, so you blitz them and try to throw off their timing/comfort in the pocket.

I have no problem with what Bettcher has done so far this year. Most of our problems have been on offense, they're most of the reason we are 2-7. Not to mention we traded away 2 defensive starters a couple weeks ago, including one guy who was better than anyone in the league at stopping the run.
RE: We need a Kittle on this team  
bw in dc : 11/13/2018 3:54 pm : link
In comment 14176377 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
He also rag dolled Collins on a run block.

Run.Block.

Jeeeeeeeesus we repeat ourselves.


That caught my eye more than the pass defense issue. He's very physical and really showed some class moving Collins.
RE: We knew that about Collins already  
BigBlueinChicago : 11/13/2018 4:04 pm : link
In comment 14175656 ATL_Giants said:
Quote:
He's not a coverage Safety.


So are the Giants are going to be paying him big dollars to him to essentially be a linebacker who just so happens to have the size and position of safety?

Does that make any sense?
RE: Collins had a rough game  
BigBlueinChicago : 11/13/2018 4:07 pm : link
In comment 14175678 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
But George Kittle is also having a pro bowl type season (despite being on a bad team). I wouldn't read too much I'm to this game in regards to LC.


Wouldn't the Giants be paying him franchise player money at safety to prevent guys like that from NOT accumulating those totals he had last night?
Everyone knows by now that Collins can’t cover...  
trueblueinpw : 11/13/2018 6:25 pm : link
But for the past two seasons I don’t think he’s been particularly good against the run either. He cleans up a lot of runs a few yards after the LOS and more than a few in the defensive backfield but for my money a plus player at S is going to blow up plays behind the LOS and at the LOS. A plus S should also either be a ball hawk or a thumper and a plus S should turn the ball over and make big plays in key spots. Does Collins even blitz well? When is the last time Collins made a big play or turned the ball over in a big spot?

Collins is clearly a minus player in coverage but I also think he vastly overrated in the run game.
Bad decision  
XBRONX : 11/13/2018 6:39 pm : link
not to trade him. Tell me the Giants are going to overpay Collins.
RE: Collins wasn't good....  
tmanic21 : 11/15/2018 7:06 pm : link
In comment 14175662 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
but Kittle would do that to just about any safety in man coverage.

He's the type of guy that should have someone hitting him on the line of scrimmage so he cannot get a free release.


Just a heads up, he was only in man coverage 1x. I went over a lot of the snaps here... overall its a better example of Bettcher as a coach than Collins as a player, tbh
Collins Piece - ( New Window )
good read..  
Dillon in Va : 11/16/2018 8:08 am : link
Good read and breakdown on how Bettcher mixed and matched coverages. Thanks tmaniac
RE: RE: Collins had a rough game  
ron mexico : 11/16/2018 8:26 am : link
In comment 14176685 BigBlueinChicago said:
Quote:
In comment 14175678 eclipz928 said:


Quote:


But George Kittle is also having a pro bowl type season (despite being on a bad team). I wouldn't read too much I'm to this game in regards to LC.



Wouldn't the Giants be paying him franchise player money at safety to prevent guys like that from NOT accumulating those totals he had last night?


what exactly is franchise player money and how do you know what the contract will end up being?

These are the same complaints that you can't make OBJ the highest player in the league. Well no shit and he didn't become the highest paid player in the league.

Collins doesn't deserve Eric Berry money and he wont get Eric Berry money. But he is absolutely the type of player you give a 2nd contract to.




RE: RE: Collins wasn't good....  
trueblueinpw : 11/16/2018 8:51 am : link
In comment 14179038 tmanic21 said:
Quote:
In comment 14175662 Eli Wilson said:


Quote:


but Kittle would do that to just about any safety in man coverage.

He's the type of guy that should have someone hitting him on the line of scrimmage so he cannot get a free release.



Just a heads up, he was only in man coverage 1x. I went over a lot of the snaps here... overall its a better example of Bettcher as a coach than Collins as a player, tbh Collins Piece - ( New Window )


Good post man! Makes me feel a lot better about Betcher. I still think Collins has been at average for two seasons now. But this article is a good example of the fact that what an average fan like me sees on game day isn’t the complete picture. Maybe there’s hope for Collins bouncing back with a little more help in the secondary and the rest of the defense.
RE: RE: Collins wasn't good....  
trueblueinpw : 11/16/2018 8:54 am : link
In comment 14179038 tmanic21 said:
Quote:
In comment 14175662 Eli Wilson said:


Quote:


but Kittle would do that to just about any safety in man coverage.

He's the type of guy that should have someone hitting him on the line of scrimmage so he cannot get a free release.



Just a heads up, he was only in man coverage 1x. I went over a lot of the snaps here... overall its a better example of Bettcher as a coach than Collins as a player, tbh Collins Piece - ( New Window )


Good post man! Makes me feel a lot better about Betcher. I still think Collins has been at average for two seasons now. But this article is a good example of the fact that what an average fan like me sees on game day isn’t the complete picture. Maybe there’s hope for Collins bouncing back with a little more help in the secondary and the rest of the defense.
One of Sy'56s three duds of the week.  
Racer : 11/16/2018 9:00 am : link
Not sure I'm getting in line to defend his play.
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