You can watch the gif
here
Eli drops back, steps up into the pocket, Marsh stunts, and Jamon Brown clears him out, allowing Eli to jump back, and then step back up in a clean pocket fire a strike over the LB in coverage to Beckham. It was a nice play by Eli moving in the pocket and a great throw to get it over the LB.
QBs around the league are able to avoid that rush all the time. But what makes this play so important and stand out is that for a long time, the Giants have not been able to get that to work.
Stunts (and general rushes) have absolutely shredded the line-- particularly the right side of the line-- all season. Usually, those plays put Eli on his ass immediately, or force him to dump it off immediately. The communication, talent, and execution have all been abysmal. It was perhaps the first time all season that the Giants had a competent player at RG in Jamon Brown, and the first time all season that the line did its job.
For all of the criticism Eli got about not being mobile (which is true and only worsens with age), he has been in an impossible situation because with zero run game and teams only rushing 4, defenses were still collapsing the pocket immediately, making there nowhere in the pocket for Eli to maneuver.
It's only one play, but if Jamon Brown can continue to play competently, it can bode well for the offense going forward in that it might actually give the Giants QB some semblance of a pocket to work with and go through progressions and allow the offense to use the full route set of routes.
If Jamon Brown is competent, it allows Pulley to focus on his man alone, which makes his job easier (notice how well he holds the center of the pocket). Plus, Solder's big issue has been speed rushers getting around him and getting to Eli's blind side. With Brown clearing out Marsh's stunt, and Pulley holding the center down, this finally gives Eli room to step up to make the throw and have Solder's man run too deep.
Again, it's only one play and the line still needs a lot of work, but I can't remember a time when the the right side of the line stopped a stunt like this.
In my opinion if I there is any semblance of pass pro, Eli is still willing to hang in there and sling it.
I hope they win the next seven.
Thanks for posting this
He did have some bad plays though. His holding on a quick WR screen was unnecessary. And, he was front and center on the only sack of the night, clearly beaten.
Overall though, first game.......something to definitely be built on.
👍
But Eli's movement in the pocket! This is what has been missing and what I feel like I haven't seen much of lately.
It was that type of movement/footwork that reminded me of 2011 Eli - he was masterful at moving with the pocket while his eyes stayed downfield even if the pocket was shrinking.
More recently, he's been losing that - his eyes are lowering, he pulls the ball down, turns into a pinball and down he goes.
He needed the blocking to make it happen in the end, but his footwork and the way he handled that pocket is exactly what I feel like I haven't been seeing from Eli nearly as much as when he was at his best.
On top of that, it was a great throw. He had to drop it in with the back boundary and defender in front of Beckham limiting his depth, as well as defenders on each side.
I was pumped for Eli last night. It just felt good to see him make those plays again.
Well, except when he underthrows a wide open by Beckham by 10 yards
Quote:
if you can give this guy sometime he will still deliver.
Well, except when he underthrows a wide open by Beckham by 10 yards
Yea, he needed to throw that one earlier since I think it traveled ~60 yards in the air and was at least 10 yards short of where it needed to be.
Amen
QBs around the league get protection on these types of plays every game and they are able to move in the pocket and try and make a play. It's not to say that every QB has great line play all the time, just that they have opportunities to make plays on occasion.
That this play last night jumped off the screen for the Giants finally picking up a stunt-- particularly on the right side of the line-- only solidifies just how desperate and pitiful the line play has been in recent memory.
Amazing what happens when the interior lines plays ok. Solder doesn't look half bad.
Those plays always seem to go against the Giants. He refused to let it happen.
Can't speak for Greg, but I think he held it a 0.5 second too long before deciding to air it out.
-sarcasm off
I believe he contributed to the Niners one sack.
Lets not have overreaction Tuesday, because they finally
won a game. Brown did what you are suppose to do on this
particular play, give him credit. It happens so infrequently with this O Line, that folks have to get excited about it I guess. Maybe Brown can help, can't be worse than Omameh or the journeyman, Greco.
It was underthrown and late. You are suppose to put the
ball out front. so he can run under it. If Eli does that,
it would have been a TD, OBJ would have been ahead of the
field. I'll give Eli credit for the game winning TD drive,
wins have been few and far between around here lately.
Quote:
the throw to Beckham was certainly underthrown. But if it was underthrown by 10 yards, then you're saying that you expect Eli to be able to throw it about 63 yards in the air somewhat off his back foot because Hernandez got beat and there was a free rusher bearing down on him if he fully stepped into the throw. Is that reasonable? I think the longest throw all last season in the air was 61.8 yards by Goff (at least that's what someone commented on Twitter).
Can't speak for Greg, but I think he held it a 0.5 second too long before deciding to air it out.
I also think he put way too much air under it....as soon as it left his hand I thought it looked like a floater.
Ideally, with OBJ that wide open, you want to throw it more on a line.....
It was not off his back foot. Watch it again. Let's not create alternate realities here.
I blame the turf.
I'm saying that he doesn't fully step into the throw (has to shorten his lead leg stride). My reaction from watching it was that the rusher beats Hernandez with his arm up and so he shortens his stride to make sure he gets the ball out and doesn't get obliterated. As such, he can't fully transfer his weight into his front leg and drive the ball, and so he's still throwing partially off his back leg.
It still went 50 yards in the air without a full stride. So my question is this because I really don't know: How many QB's can hit their drop, and step and throw the ball over 50 yards in the air without having to shuffle/"crow hop" into the throw? When I watch videos of long NFL throws, I don't really see many go that far without the QB having to drive the ball.
So I think the cause for the "underthrow" of the bomb was a shortened leg stride. I don't think it was arm strength at issue here. The issue is whether Eli should have been able to fully step into the throw without getting disrupted or destroyed by the lineman.
I'm saying that he doesn't fully step into the throw (has to shorten his lead leg stride). My reaction from watching it was that the rusher beats Hernandez with his arm up and so he shortens his stride to make sure he gets the ball out and doesn't get obliterated. As such, he can't fully transfer his weight into his front leg and drive the ball, and so he's still throwing partially off his back leg.
It still went 50 yards in the air without a full stride. So my question is this because I really don't know: How many QB's can hit their drop, and step and throw the ball over 50 yards in the air without having to shuffle/"crow hop" into the throw? When I watch videos of long NFL throws, I don't really see many go that far without the QB having to drive the ball.
So I think the cause for the "underthrow" of the bomb was a shortened leg stride. I don't think it was arm strength at issue here. The issue is whether Eli should have been able to fully step into the throw without getting disrupted or destroyed by the lineman.
I agree with you Paul and I also think the pass rushers arm up made Eli throw it higher than he would've liked. It affected his release point a bit and caused him to put a bit too much air under it than he would've liked IMO.
But Eli's movement in the pocket! This is what has been missing and what I feel like I haven't seen much of lately.
It was that type of movement/footwork that reminded me of 2011 Eli - he was masterful at moving with the pocket while his eyes stayed downfield even if the pocket was shrinking.
More recently, he's been losing that - his eyes are lowering, he pulls the ball down, turns into a pinball and down he goes.
He needed the blocking to make it happen in the end, but his footwork and the way he handled that pocket is exactly what I feel like I haven't been seeing from Eli nearly as much as when he was at his best.
On top of that, it was a great throw. He had to drop it in with the back boundary and defender in front of Beckham limiting his depth, as well as defenders on each side.
I was pumped for Eli last night. It just felt good to see him make those plays again.
Extremely fair post
I'm saying that he doesn't fully step into the throw (has to shorten his lead leg stride). My reaction from watching it was that the rusher beats Hernandez with his arm up and so he shortens his stride to make sure he gets the ball out and doesn't get obliterated. As such, he can't fully transfer his weight into his front leg and drive the ball, and so he's still throwing partially off his back leg.
It still went 50 yards in the air without a full stride. So my question is this because I really don't know: How many QB's can hit their drop, and step and throw the ball over 50 yards in the air without having to shuffle/"crow hop" into the throw? When I watch videos of long NFL throws, I don't really see many go that far without the QB having to drive the ball.
So I think the cause for the "underthrow" of the bomb was a shortened leg stride. I don't think it was arm strength at issue here. The issue is whether Eli should have been able to fully step into the throw without getting disrupted or destroyed by the lineman.
Thanks Paul
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
if you can give this guy sometime he will still deliver.
Well, except when he underthrows a wide open by Beckham by 10 yards
Yeah, kyle Lauletta would definitely have made that throw, what was I thinking.
OL is still a major draft need along with two types of lbs, dbacks of all types, old school TE and DL again.
Quote:
the throw to Beckham was certainly underthrown. But if it was underthrown by 10 yards, then you're saying that you expect Eli to be able to throw it about 63 yards in the air somewhat off his back foot because Hernandez got beat and there was a free rusher bearing down on him if he fully stepped into the throw. Is that reasonable? I think the longest throw all last season in the air was 61.8 yards by Goff (at least that's what someone commented on Twitter).
Can't speak for Greg, but I think he held it a 0.5 second too long before deciding to air it out.
He hesitates for a half second on that throw, that's the biggest red flag to me. That ball should have been out of his hands the second he gets set. He's gunshy, he's waiting until he's absolutely certain that OBJ has beaten his man, there's no anticipation. That ends up being a costly half second as the rusher starts to break free from Hernandez. Now the rusher isn't "running free", he's still engaged with Hernandez at this moment. Eli elects to throw off his back foot when he still could have stepped into that throw. He probably gets smoked, but he could step up there. Instead, he's throwing off his back foot where he doesn't have anywhere near the juice anymore to make that throw without the proper mechanics. It results in a pass that is not only late, but has waaay too much air and is about 10-20 yards short of where it needed to go. It really is the perfect example of how he has regressed as a thrower.
I'm happy for Eli and he did have a good game overall. However, you can still see those spots where he just doesn't have it anymore and his limitations are glaring, even in his "good" games. I really do hope he has a few more games like this, I just don't want it to further delude the Giants into thinking that he's any sort of answer next year. I'm a little worried about that becoming a reality.
He hesitates for a half second on that throw, that's the biggest red flag to me. That ball should have been out of his hands the second he gets set. He's gunshy, he's waiting until he's absolutely certain that OBJ has beaten his man, there's no anticipation. That ends up being a costly half second as the rusher starts to break free from Hernandez. Now the rusher isn't "running free", he's still engaged with Hernandez at this moment. Eli elects to throw off his back foot when he still could have stepped into that throw. He probably gets smoked, but he could step up there. Instead, he's throwing off his back foot where he doesn't have anywhere near the juice anymore to make that throw without the proper mechanics. It results in a pass that is not only late, but has waaay too much air and is about 10-20 yards short of where it needed to go. It really is the perfect example of how he has regressed as a thrower.
I'm happy for Eli and he did have a good game overall. However, you can still see those spots where he just doesn't have it anymore and his limitations are glaring, even in his "good" games. I really do hope he has a few more games like this, I just don't want it to further delude the Giants into thinking that he's any sort of answer next year. I'm a little worried about that becoming a reality.
That was my recollection of the play as well.
OL is still a major draft need along with two types of lbs, dbacks of all types, old school TE and DL again.
Agree with most of that except Im pretty sure we know what wheeler is or should be. A backup tackle at best. Not to say get rid of him because we need backups but rt definitely needs an upgrade
But Eli's movement in the pocket! This is what has been missing and what I feel like I haven't seen much of lately.
It was that type of movement/footwork that reminded me of 2011 Eli - he was masterful at moving with the pocket while his eyes stayed downfield even if the pocket was shrinking.
More recently, he's been losing that - his eyes are lowering, he pulls the ball down, turns into a pinball and down he goes.
He needed the blocking to make it happen in the end, but his footwork and the way he handled that pocket is exactly what I feel like I haven't been seeing from Eli nearly as much as when he was at his best.
On top of that, it was a great throw. He had to drop it in with the back boundary and defender in front of Beckham limiting his depth, as well as defenders on each side.
I was pumped for Eli last night. It just felt good to see him make those plays again.
This is an excellent post and my sentiments exactly.
In comment 14176415 AcesUp said:
Quote:
In comment 14176135 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
the throw to Beckham was certainly underthrown. But if it was underthrown by 10 yards, then you're saying that you expect Eli to be able to throw it about 63 yards in the air somewhat off his back foot because Hernandez got beat and there was a free rusher bearing down on him if he fully stepped into the throw. Is that reasonable? I think the longest throw all last season in the air was 61.8 yards by Goff (at least that's what someone commented on Twitter).
Can't speak for Greg, but I think he held it a 0.5 second too long before deciding to air it out.
He hesitates for a half second on that throw, that's the biggest red flag to me. That ball should have been out of his hands the second he gets set. He's gunshy, he's waiting until he's absolutely certain that OBJ has beaten his man, there's no anticipation. That ends up being a costly half second as the rusher starts to break free from Hernandez. Now the rusher isn't "running free", he's still engaged with Hernandez at this moment. Eli elects to throw off his back foot when he still could have stepped into that throw. He probably gets smoked, but he could step up there. Instead, he's throwing off his back foot where he doesn't have anywhere near the juice anymore to make that throw without the proper mechanics. It results in a pass that is not only late, but has waaay too much air and is about 10-20 yards short of where it needed to go. It really is the perfect example of how he has regressed as a thrower.
I'm happy for Eli and he did have a good game overall. However, you can still see those spots where he just doesn't have it anymore and his limitations are glaring, even in his "good" games. I really do hope he has a few more games like this, I just don't want it to further delude the Giants into thinking that he's any sort of answer next year. I'm a little worried about that becoming a reality.
There's been a ton of attention on Nate Solder, Ereck Flowers and the bad tackle play, and that's been a huge problem, but the center and RG play has been even worse. If the D-line gets penetration, there's nowhere for Eli to step up to. That impacts Eli's ability to go through progressions, to hit open receivers -- I think even his footwork and ability to throw a crisp "fastball." Brown's first week at RG was already a huge upgrade.
I'm sorry for breaking BBI protocol. I'll just call him names and anybody that disagrees with me a "mouth breather" going forward. My apologies.
There's been a ton of attention on Nate Solder, Ereck Flowers and the bad tackle play, and that's been a huge problem, but the center and RG play has been even worse. If the D-line gets penetration, there's nowhere for Eli to step up to. That impacts Eli's ability to go through progressions, to hit open receivers -- I think even his footwork and ability to throw a crisp "fastball." Brown's first week at RG was already a huge upgrade.
+1000
Why is this not understood by everyone? The fact that we're talking about this play is all you need to know.
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He's not a scrambler like Wilson or a runner like Newton or even a lethal hybrid of the two like Rodgers. He won't beat anyone with his legs. But Eli is actually quite good at sliding in the pocket to find a passing lane, and at stepping up in the pocket to make a throw. However, he can only do that if there is a pocket to slide in, or to step up into.
There's been a ton of attention on Nate Solder, Ereck Flowers and the bad tackle play, and that's been a huge problem, but the center and RG play has been even worse. If the D-line gets penetration, there's nowhere for Eli to step up to. That impacts Eli's ability to go through progressions, to hit open receivers -- I think even his footwork and ability to throw a crisp "fastball." Brown's first week at RG was already a huge upgrade.
+1000
Why is this not understood by everyone? The fact that we're talking about this play is all you need to know.
Agree 100%. In contrast the play in the fourth quarter where he underthrew Odell on the deep ball, I believe he had someone in his face and wasn't able to get enough on it. Booger commented that it was his arm strength but I believe it was pressure from the gut that prevented him from getting enough on the ball.