I was reminded of this by watching OV last night....
When he is cut/traded next year, the dead money from the fab 4 will be about, 22M, and if you add Jenkins to the cut/traded list, it will be 30M.....
That basically was a 200M+ one year rental....thank you Mr. Reese....it did save your job for two more years...
Also, that $200M spree lead to 11-5 and a playoff birth. Did those guys suddenly suck after that, or are there other factors??? Poor Coaching, Injuries, QB getting 23M and in decline???
That's kind of what you hope for when you have cap space - you get good players. They're rarely going to be great value contracts for the high profile guys, but if they are good players then you did ok.
It's not that helpful for a team in the giants current position of course.
Also, that $200M spree lead to 11-5 and a playoff birth. Did those guys suddenly suck after that, or are there other factors??? Poor Coaching, Injuries, QB getting 23M and in decline???
Awful trade and probably Gettelmens biggest mistake.
I know he’s overpaid but I think Solder is going to prove to be solid.
Everyone was praising and seemed at least cautiously optimistic.
To go back and say "it was a fiasco" is really fucking annoying hindsight.
Why cant we see the full picture before spouting off our bloated overvalued opinions.
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also used precious draft capital... very disappointing.
Awful trade and probably Gettelmens biggest mistake.
I know he’s overpaid but I think Solder is going to prove to be solid.
The Giants were moving to a 3-4 and didn’t have much on the roster at the LB position. At the time Ogletree seemed like a solid move to add some talent and vet leadership to the position.
Soldier will be fine as Hernandez continues to improve .
Also, that $200M spree lead to 11-5 and a playoff birth. Did those guys suddenly suck after that, or are there other factors??? Poor Coaching, Injuries, QB getting 23M and in decline???
They got a quick stimulus in terms of performance for that one year. Think of it like a cortisone shot. Once it wore off, they regressed to previous career performance.
Each of those players (Jenkins and Vernon) had warts on them before coming to the Giants. That is what you get for poor drafting and rely on free agency to bail you out.
He didn't earn either of them, he inhereted one of those teams from EA.
The other had a bottom 3 rated offensive line, defense, and run game.. by football law it should be impossible for you to win a super bowl, who ever put that team together really doesn't deserve to win.. yet that wildly mediocre team was single handedly carried in nothing short of miraculous fashion by.. a QB Reese didn't even draft.
Short memory on the details. At no point in his career was Reese anything beyond a grade-F GM.
Btw where is he working now? Figure teams would be banging the door down to hire a 2x SB winning GM.. At least in a reduced role of some sort.. except teams know those rings are hollow and he did nothing to earn them. He is of zero value to any football team in any capacity.
I was all for OV, JJ and Snacks. And still don't fault him for those signings. OV got what the market would bare. As did Solder and Pugh and Richburg to name just a few. The 3 signings paid immediate dividends for us so I don't think you can complain about Reese their. My fault is with OV. It seems TO ME that he just isn't giving 100% and that football or at least the outcome of the games and the success of the team is a priority for him. What do I know.
The prevailing notion on this board was that Reese was an idiot who prevented the Giants from winning 4-5 Superbowls in the Eli era, and that any success under his watch was really the work of Accorsi and Gettleman.
Not everybody loved the signings. I posted the following in October 2016:
"The failure to spend money to improve the offensive side of the ball (where the team already had some quality), has rendered that side impotent in ways that are clear for all of us to see. They thought they could sit on their hands and the offense would be just as good in 2016 as it was in 2015. We now see that isn't the case. The glaring weaknesses nullify our two best players because Eli usually doesn't have time to let Beckham get deep, and when he does have time Beckham is usually flanked by at least two defenders that don't have to respect the danger of our running game.
To quote John Madden, "In the NFL you are always either moving forward or backward. You are never standing still." The Giants thought they could stand still on offense and they got burned.
And with regards to the defensive players, especially Vernon...I don't understand why we talk about him and his contract only in terms of the present. According to BBI Vernon's cap hit in 2018 is almost $13 million. Yeah we were flush with cap space entering this season...that doesn't mean we will be forever. If you read and listened to any non-NY source the reaction to the Vernon signing was generally the same: "Wow...for him???" Hell even Al Michaels said as much after the fifth or sixth time Rodgers had all day to throw.
It was reactionary. A panic move. A thirsty man in the desert paying $500 for a glass of water. But what the Giants failed to realize is that massively overpaying for a good player isn't going to make him great. And now we're stuck paying a nice player Vonn Miller money. What happens if a better player than Vernon becomes available in free agency next offseason or the offseason after? We're out of luck because we're paying Vernon (not Vonn Miller) $17 million. That is bad business, short term thinking, whatever you want to call it.
Above everything, it is indicative of a lack of a plan. The Giants spend resources and make moves in reaction to a problem, rather than proactively. This goes back for a lot of years now. If one side of the ball stinks, they spend there and change coordinators. Then they do it for the other side a couple years later. The result is a team that has won 12 games once in fifteen years.
The Giants don't have a plan. They just react to what happens to them."
UConn4523 : 8:06 pm : link : reply
these are fun. We get to bitch and complain and then nothing comes of it. If only more fans thought these were bad signing at the time we wouldn’t be in this mess....
So it's the fans' fault, that we are in this mess! Brilliant....
Well Eli has two rings. He’s gotten more shit thst Reese ever did. TC two rings. Wtf the guy destroyed the Franchise. Reese was inept. I’m sure the Capt of the Titanic was pretty good. Except for that last trip. Reese’s last 6 years don’t go away just because he was good at his previous job. Fuck him now.
Snacks good the whole time
Jpp a healthy disrupter again in Tampa
Jenkins elite year one and has fallen off- front runner type player
The issue isn’t that money it’s that they drafted OL high and missed on all of them. They didn’t ignore it- they weren’t handicapped by the 200m- They whiffed on OL drafts—-
UConn4523 : 8:06 pm : link : reply
these are fun. We get to bitch and complain and then nothing comes of it. If only more fans thought these were bad signing at the time we wouldn’t be in this mess....
So it's the fans' fault, that we are in this mess! Brilliant....
Yeah, don’t you know anything?
Reese is currently out of Football as he is still under contract with Giants
He sounded a bit burned out at the end his tenure as Giant's GM
but if Reese chose to get back to Football there would be a number of teams who would gladly hire him as GM tomorrow .
DG's first swing at UFA is far worse, which is supposed to be a forte of his, given his past success with NYG was pro personnel.
Snacks good the whole time
Jpp a healthy disrupter again in Tampa
Jenkins elite year one and has fallen off- front runner type player
The issue isn�t that money it�s that they drafted OL high and missed on all of them. They didn�t ignore it- they weren�t handicapped by the 200m- They whiffed on OL drafts�-
Yes, but this also forgets that they fielded one of the worst Giants defenses ever because he let Linval go, signed scrapheap LBs and blew early picks on the secondary (some due to injury).
Snacks good the whole time
Jpp a healthy disrupter again in Tampa
Jenkins elite year one and has fallen off- front runner type player
The issue isn’t that money it’s that they drafted OL high and missed on all of them. They didn’t ignore it- they weren’t handicapped by the 200m- They whiffed on OL drafts—-
Bingo.
Whatever the plan (if it can be called that) was in 2016, it failed spectacularly. And I agree that the same thing can be said about whatever it was that Gettleman thought he was doing this offseason.
The Giants needed a pass rusher. Vernon was the best pass rusher available. He wasn't worth the money he was paid, but the thinking was 'we need, so we'll overpay'.
That thinking was part of a strategy that got Reese fired. In comes Gettleman...
...who promptly signs Solder and Omameh. Again, the thinking was 'we need to fix the OL, so we'll overpay'.
And the results were the same. If anything, worse this time around because the players in question were awful, not just overpaid.
It's not too hard to look at many of these in real-time and suggest it's poor strategy, it's not simply hindsight.
Had Reese just drafted either Cam Robinson or Ryan Ramcyzk instead of Evan Engram then the Giants wouldn't have had to sign Nate Solder.
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and FA towards the end of the Reese era we likely look at the spending spree differently. It’s disingenuous to think otherwise, IMO.
Had Reese just drafted either Cam Robinson or Ryan Ramcyzk instead of Evan Engram then the Giants wouldn't have had to sign Nate Solder.
Flawed logic, and why the Giants are and continue to be in this mess.
'Had X worked, we wouldn't have to overpay for Y'.
Guess what - if you know a guy isn't worth what you're paying, don't pay it.
There's one of two problems here, and neither is pretty. Either the Giants massively overrated Solder's playing ability, or they were willing to massively overpay to get him here.
Substitute in Vernon for Solder - and the two situations are mirror images. The organization continues to make the same mistakes, just with different people at the helm.
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and FA towards the end of the Reese era we likely look at the spending spree differently. It’s disingenuous to think otherwise, IMO.
Had Reese just drafted either Cam Robinson or Ryan Ramcyzk instead of Evan Engram then the Giants wouldn't have had to sign Nate Solder.
But if you go back to that time, many complained not only about the o-line issues, but that the Giants needed break the "Cover 2 hex" that had stymied the offense in 2016.
The idea held that a tight end of Engram's skill set (OJ Howard initially - but he was taken earlier) would set up mismatches on the field and open up room for Odell and help out the running game.
As we have seen, Engram has not had any noticeable impact on the offense at all (and that is before his hands of stone). It is possible he is a bust. Though, this might actually be an issue with the coaching not putting him in situations to be a weapon rather than trying to pigeonhole him into the "conventional tight end" role.
Also if you recall, many fans and media fell for the "draft people are saying this is not a good draft for tackles" chatter and downgraded those o-lineman you mentioned and used that as justification for not making a move to get any of them.
As we have seen, falling for the "draft chatter" and so-called "experts" is a terrible way to do evaluations.
Reese was with the Giants for 23 years, and sure as hell had a hand in both Super Bowls. Why can't people appreciate the 2 incredible runs TC and Reese had, aided by EA, and agree it was time to move on?
Also, when will people realize that if you hit on draft picks, you still need to pay huge money for contract number 2? Look at what Pugh and Richburg got - and Richburg is playing well.
Problem with EA is he recommended Gettleman - jury is still out, but first year is a disaster.
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and FA towards the end of the Reese era we likely look at the spending spree differently. It’s disingenuous to think otherwise, IMO.
Had Reese just drafted either Cam Robinson or Ryan Ramcyzk instead of Evan Engram then the Giants wouldn't have had to sign Nate Solder.
They didnt 'have to'. Nobody had DG at gunpoint. Solder wasnt even his first choice.
If we had a half decent OLine that 11-5 season wouldn’t have been a fluke and it would have justified the spend, IMO.
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In comment 14177415 UConn4523 said:
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and FA towards the end of the Reese era we likely look at the spending spree differently. It’s disingenuous to think otherwise, IMO.
Had Reese just drafted either Cam Robinson or Ryan Ramcyzk instead of Evan Engram then the Giants wouldn't have had to sign Nate Solder.
They didnt 'have to'. Nobody had DG at gunpoint. Solder wasnt even his first choice.
I wasn't suggesting that Gettleman had no choice. We all know that Norwell was the top target. Gettleman thought this team could win this year so he needed to fix the offensive line and the options were limited so he overpaid for Solder. This belief that the Giants could be a playoff contender was way off. The fact that Gettleman was so wrong about this roster has me concerned for the future.