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We left a lot of time on the clock.

VinegarPeppers : 11/13/2018 2:37 pm
Hey, we needed the win and I get that, but given our defense isn't very good, shouldn't we have run a play or two down there inside the five so we weren't giving the ball back with so much time on the clock?

Or am I just getting picky? Maybe it was best to just play off the momentum and keep their defense on it's heals.
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Totally agree with the OP here  
RobCarpenter : 11/13/2018 4:10 pm : link
As soon as they scored that TD the two things I thought were:

1. Why did they snap it with almost 20 seconds on the play clock?
2. Here comes another last second scoring drive to raise my blood pressure.

Eli waiting an additional 15 seconds would have had NO impact on the result of that play. SF wasn't going to change the coverage. Just makes no sense.
RE: The ultimate second guess  
Eman11 : 11/13/2018 4:22 pm : link
In comment 14176588 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
If they ended up with a FG and then lost in OT, then what would you say, they scored, move on.


Totally agree, and even if some were 1st guessing at the time, it's still not great logic when trailing. Get the points when they're there. Plus, at that exact time Eli had the matchup setup perfectly for what he wanted. If he waits who knows if the Niners shift a little and that play doesn't happen as it did?

We went through this after the Carolina loss too. There are more factors involved than just using all the clock when trailing and needing to score. First priority is scoring and if the matchup is there at that time, snap the ball and get the score.
RE: Totally agree with the OP here  
Eman11 : 11/13/2018 4:26 pm : link
In comment 14176690 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
As soon as they scored that TD the two things I thought were:

1. Why did they snap it with almost 20 seconds on the play clock?
2. Here comes another last second scoring drive to raise my blood pressure.

Eli waiting an additional 15 seconds would have had NO impact on the result of that play. SF wasn't going to change the coverage. Just makes no sense.


How do you know nothing would change? I don't get how you or anyone can say that with such absolute conviction. What if they saw they were in a bad spot and called a TO? I'm not saying it would've happened but it sure could've.
RE: It's not being picky...it's attention to detail  
Danny Kanell : 11/13/2018 4:28 pm : link
In comment 14176569 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It's the kind of thing that well coached teams do well and poorly coached teams like the Giants don't. It's happened many times this year, and it's probably a big reason that Shurmur's record as a head coach is 12-30.


+1. I also blame Eli. He's had this problem his entire career. You have to know the situation and to slow it down. There's not reason to snap it with 20 seconds on the play clock in a rushed manner when you're goal to go, timeouts left and over a minute to play. You only have 4 plays tops. Even if you run it, you have time outs. You don't need more than 30 seconds at that point to run 4 plays if needed.
Whoever said it's "attention to detail" Is an idiot  
longlive#10 : 11/13/2018 4:33 pm : link
IDEALLY you'd like to leave them no time, but you can't risk passing on the 6 when it's availible as it may not be again.

Anyone who thinks that plays too much Madden on rookie mode and thinks oh it's no problem I'll just get a TD on the next play, easy.

Scoring TDs in the red zone in the NFL is never easy. You sure as hell don't pass on it there cause you're worried about giving the other team 50 fucking seconds to score a TD.
RE: RE: It's not being picky...it's attention to detail  
longlive#10 : 11/13/2018 4:36 pm : link
In comment 14176725 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
In comment 14176569 Go Terps said:


Quote:


It's the kind of thing that well coached teams do well and poorly coached teams like the Giants don't. It's happened many times this year, and it's probably a big reason that Shurmur's record as a head coach is 12-30.



+1. I also blame Eli. He's had this problem his entire career. You have to know the situation and to slow it down. There's not reason to snap it with 20 seconds on the play clock in a rushed manner when you're goal to go, timeouts left and over a minute to play. You only have 4 plays tops. Even if you run it, you have time outs. You don't need more than 30 seconds at that point to run 4 plays if needed.


You have zero clue what's going on there, if Eli spots a weakness in the defense pre-snap that they're not ready for the play call we've drawn up you hurry up and get going before the D recognizes what's going on and fixes it.

Must be nice having such a simplistic and narrow view of everything.
RE: Whoever said it's  
Danny Kanell : 11/13/2018 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14176737 longlive#10 said:
Quote:
IDEALLY you'd like to leave them no time, but you can't risk passing on the 6 when it's availible as it may not be again.

Anyone who thinks that plays too much Madden on rookie mode and thinks oh it's no problem I'll just get a TD on the next play, easy.

Scoring TDs in the red zone in the NFL is never easy. You sure as hell don't pass on it there cause you're worried about giving the other team 50 fucking seconds to score a TD.


What about waiting to snap it to run some clock instead of rushing to snap it for absolutely no reason?
RE: RE: RE: It's not being picky...it's attention to detail  
Danny Kanell : 11/13/2018 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14176742 longlive#10 said:
Quote:
In comment 14176725 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


In comment 14176569 Go Terps said:


Quote:


It's the kind of thing that well coached teams do well and poorly coached teams like the Giants don't. It's happened many times this year, and it's probably a big reason that Shurmur's record as a head coach is 12-30.



+1. I also blame Eli. He's had this problem his entire career. You have to know the situation and to slow it down. There's not reason to snap it with 20 seconds on the play clock in a rushed manner when you're goal to go, timeouts left and over a minute to play. You only have 4 plays tops. Even if you run it, you have time outs. You don't need more than 30 seconds at that point to run 4 plays if needed.



You have zero clue what's going on there, if Eli spots a weakness in the defense pre-snap that they're not ready for the play call we've drawn up you hurry up and get going before the D recognizes what's going on and fixes it.

Must be nice having such a simplistic and narrow view of everything.


What was your previous handle?
RE: RE: RE: RE: It's not being picky...it's attention to detail  
chopperhatch : 11/13/2018 4:44 pm : link
In comment 14176746 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
In comment 14176742 longlive#10 said:


Quote:


In comment 14176725 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


In comment 14176569 Go Terps said:


Quote:


It's the kind of thing that well coached teams do well and poorly coached teams like the Giants don't. It's happened many times this year, and it's probably a big reason that Shurmur's record as a head coach is 12-30.



+1. I also blame Eli. He's had this problem his entire career. You have to know the situation and to slow it down. There's not reason to snap it with 20 seconds on the play clock in a rushed manner when you're goal to go, timeouts left and over a minute to play. You only have 4 plays tops. Even if you run it, you have time outs. You don't need more than 30 seconds at that point to run 4 plays if needed.



You have zero clue what's going on there, if Eli spots a weakness in the defense pre-snap that they're not ready for the play call we've drawn up you hurry up and get going before the D recognizes what's going on and fixes it.

Must be nice having such a simplistic and narrow view of everything.



What was your previous handle?


Sounds a lot like DennyInDenville. Longlive#10 is a jerkoff.
It is..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/13/2018 5:08 pm : link
just like the Carolina game criticism.

The Giants needed a TD to take the lead.

Let's say they run the clock down with running plays and don't score. Would that be fine with you guys?

An absolutely not is the only answer there.
You don’t change the playcall,  
Keith : 11/13/2018 5:11 pm : link
but you absolutely take the playclock down before you snap it. It’s not rocket science and if you watch winning teams, you see they do this. Some people will just defend, defend, defend. This one is pretty simple, we fail miserably at the little details that make a huge difference.
Some are definitely arguing the wrong point there...  
Dan in the Springs : 11/13/2018 5:31 pm : link
I was also yelling at the tv for Eli to take the play clock down close to zero. It seems we do it regularly anyway, why not run off another dozen or so seconds of game clock before snapping?

No change of play call needed.
I was definitely of the mind to score  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/13/2018 5:35 pm : link
I didn't care how fast they did it. Its one thing to milk the clock on the FG to win the game, but in this instance I just hoped for the TD. Put the pressure on them to drive and score a TD with only 1 TO.
RE: You don’t change the playcall,  
Milton : 11/13/2018 5:36 pm : link
In comment 14176855 Keith said:
Quote:
but you absolutely take the playclock down before you snap it. It’s not rocket science and if you watch winning teams, you see they do this. Some people will just defend, defend, defend. This one is pretty simple, we fail miserably at the little details that make a huge difference.

This is not true at all. You can get cute with the play clock when you already have the lead, but when you are behind in the score, you snap the ball at the point in time that gives the offense the best chance at a successful play. If the QB sees the coverage he wants, it's not wise to wait any longer before calling for the ball. Lots of things can change during those ten extra seconds to be gained on the clock. Worst of which is a false start when you are on the road and you have a new guys on the OL. But it's also possible that the coverage could change (perhaps the defense thought they would have more time and were caught masking their intended coverage). And if it later comes down to 4th and goal and you get a defensive holding call on the defense that gives you a 1st down but not a TD, you could be pissed at yourself that you wasted away ten seconds that would now come in very handy.

It's one thing to work the clock when you're ahead in the score or when it only takes a field goal to put you ahead. But if you need a TD for the win, you don't play games with the play clock.
RE: Whoever said it's  
santacruzom : 11/13/2018 6:44 pm : link
In comment 14176737 longlive#10 said:
Quote:
IDEALLY you'd like to leave them no time, but you can't risk passing on the 6 when it's availible as it may not be again.

Anyone who thinks that plays too much Madden on rookie mode and thinks oh it's no problem I'll just get a TD on the next play, easy.

Scoring TDs in the red zone in the NFL is never easy. You sure as hell don't pass on it there cause you're worried about giving the other team 50 fucking seconds to score a TD.


Why does everyone act like it's a binary choice, that a TD is all but assured and the coach would be passing up a bird in hand if they elected to use more clock?

It's not like they KNEW gwu were going to score there.
Gwu?  
santacruzom : 11/13/2018 6:46 pm : link
They.
RE: RE: You don’t change the playcall,  
uther99 : 11/13/2018 7:02 pm : link
In comment 14176893 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 14176855 Keith said:


Quote:


but you absolutely take the playclock down before you snap it. It’s not rocket science and if you watch winning teams, you see they do this. Some people will just defend, defend, defend. This one is pretty simple, we fail miserably at the little details that make a huge difference.


This is not true at all. You can get cute with the play clock when you already have the lead, but when you are behind in the score, you snap the ball at the point in time that gives the offense the best chance at a successful play. If the QB sees the coverage he wants, it's not wise to wait any longer before calling for the ball. Lots of things can change during those ten extra seconds to be gained on the clock. Worst of which is a false start when you are on the road and you have a new guys on the OL. But it's also possible that the coverage could change (perhaps the defense thought they would have more time and were caught masking their intended coverage). And if it later comes down to 4th and goal and you get a defensive holding call on the defense that gives you a 1st down but not a TD, you could be pissed at yourself that you wasted away ten seconds that would now come in very handy.

It's one thing to work the clock when you're ahead in the score or when it only takes a field goal to put you ahead. But if you need a TD for the win, you don't play games with the play clock.


Teams do this all the time, they slow down inside the 10, especially if they have a timeout. If you want a quick look and the defense, then don't break the huddle so fast.

The Vinegar Peppers  
Paulie Walnuts : 11/13/2018 7:05 pm : link
relax, they only had 1 time out.. take the points and play defense.. the roughing call made it closer than it should have been, they dont have Montana and Rice there anymore
The team wins on another last minute  
B in ALB : 11/13/2018 7:05 pm : link
drive and some of you guys still find something to bitch about.

The sun rises in the east, death, taxes and bitching and moaning about a sin on BBI.
LOL  
Keith : 11/13/2018 7:49 pm : link
The giants have won 5 of their last 25 games and we just beat the garbage 9ers, but they are above criticism. Enough with the grandstanding, either have an opinion about the subject or stfu.

It’s really not a big deal anyway, they have much bigger issues. This is just another example of a weakness on this team. We are very poorly coached.
What Milton said...  
JCin332 : 11/13/2018 7:57 pm : link
..
I don't even argue with snapping the ball with  
Blue21 : 11/13/2018 8:26 pm : link
20 seconds left to the 2 minute warning. At that time the Giants were fighting the clock a little bit too. They didn't know how much time they were going to need to stick it in the end zone. Too much Tuesday morning QBing in my opinion.
Given the explosiveness of our offense....sarcasm here...you  
yatqb : 11/13/2018 8:39 pm : link
take the points when you can get them. That's absolutely not clock mismanagement. And I'd give a 3rd string QB 53 seconds any time, if he needs to get a TD to win the game.
There was a minute left on the clock from the 3  
Keith : 11/13/2018 8:41 pm : link
with a TO. It’s nearly impossible for them to run out of time.
Some of you don’t use logic.  
Keith : 11/13/2018 8:43 pm : link
I’d take our chances against a 3rd stringer with :53 too. The odds only improve if there is :40 on the clock. They actually drove the field and had a shot at the endzone. Better time management and they don’t get close. It’s pretty simple logic.
RE: Some of you don’t use logic.  
Milton : 11/13/2018 8:47 pm : link
In comment 14177033 Keith said:
Quote:
I’d take our chances against a 3rd stringer with :53 too. The odds only improve if there is :40 on the clock.
The odds don't improve if the score is tied when the 3rd stringer gets the ball back.
It’s a fair criticism not to use the clock better  
Jimmy Googs : 11/13/2018 8:53 pm : link
so the defenders of the faith should shut the hell up.

It tells you how desperate the coaches have become to just take the lead versus increase the chances of winning. And how constant losing and poor football has clouded better judgment on that field

and on BBI...
How is this even an argument?  
Jerry in DC : 11/13/2018 8:57 pm : link
This has nothing to do with scoring a touchdown. This only involves a decision to let the clock run for 15 addional seconds.

Having those 15 seconds on the clock does not benefit the giants in any way. Having those 15 seconds gives the 49ers a better chance to score if/when they get the ball back and need to score.

This is basic decision making along the lines of "if I leave my house earlier in the morning then I'm less likely to be
late for work."
RE: How is this even an argument?  
Milton : 11/13/2018 10:15 pm : link
In comment 14177048 Jerry in DC said:
Quote:
This has nothing to do with scoring a touchdown. This only involves a decision to let the clock run for 15 additional seconds.

Having those 15 seconds on the clock does not benefit the giants in any way. Having those 15 seconds gives the 49ers a better chance to score if/when they get the ball back and need to score.
Well it was 2nd and one at the three-yard line, right? What if instead of completing the pass, Eli gets sacked. Now they need every second they can have. Or what if it's simply an incomplete pass. And then on 3rd and one it's another incomplete pass, except this time there's a defensive holding call, so now it's 1st and goal from the one and a half yard line. Or what if Eli dilly dallies at the line of scrimmage and there's a false start. In fact, earlier in the drive there was both a false start (Willie Hernandez on 3rd and seven) and a defensive holding call (the very next play on 3rd and twelve). Nobody is saying the Giants should be in a hurry up, but when you need to score a TD in order to win and it's second down, you don't assume anything. You play your offense as you would normally play it in order to maximize the success of the play that is called.

Quote:
This is basic decision making along the lines of "if I leave my house earlier in the morning then I'm less likely to be
late for work."
Now you're talking! You allow yourself more time because you never know if there is going to be an unexpected delay.
RE: RE: RE: It's not being picky...it's attention to detail  
section125 : 11/13/2018 10:24 pm : link
In comment 14176622 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
In comment 14176616 Keith said:


Quote:


In comment 14176569 Go Terps said:


Quote:


It's the kind of thing that well coached teams do well and poorly coached teams like the Giants don't. It's happened many times this year, and it's probably a big reason that Shurmur's record as a head coach is 12-30.



Fact.



Exactly. Nothing was to be lost by snapping the ball on :01 rather than :18. Potentially could've urged SF to take their last TO. Their D was all set on the Shepard TD, and it's not like we caught them off-guard by snapping it at :18. Shurmur got lucky that didn't come back to bite him.


Wrong. Eli saw what he had and did not need or want for the defense to make an adjustment just before the snap.

WTH is wrong with you people. This was a 1-7 team that cannot score in the Red Zone and you all want to get cute? They cannot score from the 1 yardline and you guys want to allow the defense to read the alignment and get set.

Never ends. Shurmur is always wrong and you are all experts.
He's 12-31 as a head coach,  
Go Terps : 11/13/2018 11:29 pm : link
and is about to tack another horrible season in to his resume. So yeah, Shurmur is usually wrong.

2-7 and we're supposed to be happy after beating a 1 win team. Pathetic standards.
RE: He's 12-31 as a head coach,  
Milton : 11/14/2018 12:02 am : link
In comment 14177112 Go Terps said:
Quote:
and is about to tack another horrible season in to his resume. So yeah, Shurmur is usually wrong.

2-7 and we're supposed to be happy after beating a 1 win team. Pathetic standards.
Way to move the goal posts. Nobody asked you to be happy with the team's record or Shurmur for that matter. All that's being asked is that you accept that the correct strategy was to snap the ball at whatever point in time Eli felt gave the offense the best chance of successfully executing the play and with no regard for how much time he was leaving on the clock.
Except that's not the correct strategy  
Go Terps : 11/14/2018 12:30 am : link
It is not the correct strategy.

Multiple times this season the Giants have been completely clueless with regards to managing the clock and managing timeouts. Multiple times. In those situations they have not even looked like a professionally run football team.

No one is moving the goal posts. This is a badly coached team that lacks game management, the ability to make in game adjustments, and overall attention to detail.

Shurmur can't do much about the talent on his roster, but he should damn sure be able to manage the game and play clocks. He hasn't even done that.
The correct strategy is to run the clock down to 1 second  
Go Terps : 11/14/2018 12:32 am : link
That would be obvious to any coach whose face wasn't buried in a play sheet.
RE: RE: It's not being picky...it's attention to detail  
kelsto811 : 11/14/2018 1:16 am : link
In comment 14176725 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
In comment 14176569 Go Terps said:


Quote:


It's the kind of thing that well coached teams do well and poorly coached teams like the Giants don't. It's happened many times this year, and it's probably a big reason that Shurmur's record as a head coach is 12-30.



+1. I also blame Eli. He's had this problem his entire career. You have to know the situation and to slow it down. There's not reason to snap it with 20 seconds on the play clock in a rushed manner when you're goal to go, timeouts left and over a minute to play. You only have 4 plays tops. Even if you run it, you have time outs. You don't need more than 30 seconds at that point to run 4 plays if needed.


I sort of disagree. If you see the defense is out of position, confused, misaligned, or you just have a mismatch, there's definitely a case there to snap the ball quickly. Not saying it happened in that situation but rather than let the defense correct their alignment or switch up the play, wouldn't you want your QB to get the ball snapped ASAP in that situarion?
Insufferable  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 11/14/2018 8:47 am : link
This place, man. Do you guys have any idea how many things can change or go wrong in 17 seconds? Sure, the pacing could have been better, we maybe could have taken a few more seconds before breaking the huddle or taking our time getting lined up. Maybe. But what happens when you get to the line with 10 seconds and Eli has to audible because the defense is in a bad look for the playcall? Now you've got a bunch of guys changing assignments and trying to get on the same page before what is at that point the most crucial play of the game.

Now say you line up at the same time the Giants did. The pre-snap reads happen to be good. You want a bunch of 300+ pound lineman to maintain a relatively uncomfortable stance for 12-16 seconds? You're begging for a false start. You're also giving the defense that same amount of time to figure out what is going on so they can change what they are doing. And hey, what if they do that and now the perfect playcall we had at 18 seconds is shit, but there's only 5 seconds left. Not enough time to audible. You want Eli burning a TO there? He would (rightfully) get crucified.

You line up with time to read the defense and snap when ready, that's it.
RE: Insufferable  
Keith : 11/14/2018 8:59 am : link
In comment 14177187 Cap'n Bluebeard said:
Quote:
This place, man. Do you guys have any idea how many things can change or go wrong in 17 seconds? Sure, the pacing could have been better, we maybe could have taken a few more seconds before breaking the huddle or taking our time getting lined up. Maybe. But what happens when you get to the line with 10 seconds and Eli has to audible because the defense is in a bad look for the playcall? Now you've got a bunch of guys changing assignments and trying to get on the same page before what is at that point the most crucial play of the game.

Now say you line up at the same time the Giants did. The pre-snap reads happen to be good. You want a bunch of 300+ pound lineman to maintain a relatively uncomfortable stance for 12-16 seconds? You're begging for a false start. You're also giving the defense that same amount of time to figure out what is going on so they can change what they are doing. And hey, what if they do that and now the perfect playcall we had at 18 seconds is shit, but there's only 5 seconds left. Not enough time to audible. You want Eli burning a TO there? He would (rightfully) get crucified.

You line up with time to read the defense and snap when ready, that's it.


lol, this is so silly. OL cant stay in their stances for 12 seconds. Nonsense.
RE: RE: Insufferable  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 11/14/2018 9:06 am : link
In comment 14177198 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 14177187 Cap'n Bluebeard said:


Quote:


This place, man. Do you guys have any idea how many things can change or go wrong in 17 seconds? Sure, the pacing could have been better, we maybe could have taken a few more seconds before breaking the huddle or taking our time getting lined up. Maybe. But what happens when you get to the line with 10 seconds and Eli has to audible because the defense is in a bad look for the playcall? Now you've got a bunch of guys changing assignments and trying to get on the same page before what is at that point the most crucial play of the game.

Now say you line up at the same time the Giants did. The pre-snap reads happen to be good. You want a bunch of 300+ pound lineman to maintain a relatively uncomfortable stance for 12-16 seconds? You're begging for a false start. You're also giving the defense that same amount of time to figure out what is going on so they can change what they are doing. And hey, what if they do that and now the perfect playcall we had at 18 seconds is shit, but there's only 5 seconds left. Not enough time to audible. You want Eli burning a TO there? He would (rightfully) get crucified.

You line up with time to read the defense and snap when ready, that's it.



lol, this is so silly. OL cant stay in their stances for 12 seconds. Nonsense.


It's not silly. Will Hernandez had one because he lost his balance earlier in the same game and he was only in his stance a fraction of the time. I'm not saying it's impossible to maintain the stance for that long at all, but you're increasing the chances of a false start exponentially.
No, its absolutely silly.  
Keith : 11/14/2018 9:11 am : link
Are you trying to suggest that teams don't get to the line and stay in their stances for the full play clock? Do you watch other games? I'm not trying to be douchy, but it's an absurd thought.
RE: The correct strategy is to run the clock down to 1 second  
section125 : 11/14/2018 9:14 am : link
In comment 14177125 Go Terps said:
Quote:
That would be obvious to any coach whose face wasn't buried in a play sheet.


The correct strategy for a team that is 1-7 is to win the game. The correct strategy is for Eli to snap the ball when he feels he has the defense beaten. The correct strategy for a team that is awful in the red zone is to get a TD at any cost.

Now, if you think they should run the clock down to 1 second then your argument is with the 14 year starter not the head coach. I did not see the HC behind the center. I saw a 14 year vet, a likely HoF QB who has been in the same position time and again. While people have questioned some of the decisions Eli makes while in the pocket, I don't ever remember people questioning his ability to read a defense.
At least now the argument is back on track...  
Dan in the Springs : 11/14/2018 9:31 am : link
the discussion is where it should be - what should have been the strategy with the clock where it was and given the circumstances of the game?

A lot of good points on either side.

Generally speaking it is always better to use the play clock to your advantage in that reducing the amount of time remaining after a score leads to a better chance to win.

I can see snapping quickly under the following circumstances:

1. Maintaining momentum or offensive rhythm. This ties into offensive execution or the arguments about avoiding penalties, holding alignments too long, or giving defensive players keys to what you plan to run.
2. Keeping a defense from switching out tired players.
3. Defensive confusion or misalignment.
4. Identifying some other offensive advantage such as a defensive call you don't want them to audible out of.

Thoughts on those kinds of arguments.

1. Poorly coached teams have to worry about execution or giving off keys based on alignment, etc. If you make that case you accept that the team isn't well-coached.

2. The defense was not switching out players. The defense was as concerned with preserving clock at that point as many here seem to be. Even if they wanted to there are ways to prevent that by breaking the huddle and approaching the line, even if linemen/players aren't set.

3. Watch the clip again - the ball wasn't snapped because the defense wasn't set and Eli was capitalizing. The defense was set.

4. Giants were in 11 personnel with 3 WR on the line, EE off RT and SB in the backfield. OBJ is split far right. 9 defenders are on the line, all db's in tight man coverage except two (LB on EE and a single-high safety) as the Giants set. Eli raises his leg and the single-high safety drifts towards OBJ's side protecting the inside. Realistically, what could they have done to adjust/switch the call? The crowd was very loud. The secondary being split from sideline to sideline would not have been able to communicate a change in assignments clearly to everyone. There was no realistic threat that the Giants were going to give up an advantage if they held the position.

The bottom line is that a well-coached team in that position should have broke the huddle with every player prepared for a ten-second or longer run off.

It worked out. Pointing out this little problem doesn't make one a hater. This is a Giants fan site where we should be free to discuss our reactions to the situation. It should surprise no one that at least some of the more knowledgeable fans were wanting to let the clock tick in that situation.
RE: No, its absolutely silly.  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 11/14/2018 9:56 am : link
In comment 14177217 Keith said:
Quote:
Are you trying to suggest that teams don't get to the line and stay in their stances for the full play clock? Do you watch other games? I'm not trying to be douchy, but it's an absurd thought.


I watch a ton of football. There are people in this thread suggesting that the line should have stayed in their stances for 17 seconds so Eli hikes the ball with 1 second left. THAT is what is absurd here. That is damn near half the playclock. It just doesn't happen.

Do yourself a favor, break out a stopwatch, and time it tomorrow night. Unless there's an audible (in which case lineman generally get out of their stances anyway) or the offense is trying to draw the defense offsides (in which case the offensive players are literally only worried about staying in their stance), it is pretty rare for an OL to stay set in their stances for 10+ seconds.
RE: At least now the argument is back on track...  
section125 : 11/14/2018 10:11 am : link
In comment 14177237 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
the discussion is where it should be - what should have been the strategy with the clock where it was and given the circumstances of the game?

A lot of good points on either side.

It worked out. Pointing out this little problem doesn't make one a hater. This is a Giants fan site where we should be free to discuss our reactions to the situation. It should surprise no one that at least some of the more knowledgeable fans were wanting to let the clock tick in that situation.


Dan, of course, in an ideal situation you let the clock run down. But when are the Giants in an ideal or even normal situation.

Again, Terps is shitting on the HC. Eli was the one who called for the snap. I have to think that Eli liked what he saw and ran the play. He was quite decisive. I do not know Eli's reasoning for the quick snap. But he did it. He liked what he saw.
But it remains, the 14 year likely HoF QB, made the decision to snap the ball based on what he saw. It resulted in the game winning TD.

And funny thing is, I agree that running the clock down would have been better in that situation.
RE: It is..  
BigK : 11/14/2018 10:21 am : link
In comment 14176850 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
just like the Carolina game criticism.

The Giants needed a TD to take the lead.

Let's say they run the clock down with running plays and don't score. Would that be fine with you guys?

An absolutely not is the only answer there.


+1

If they only had to kick a FG, then run down the clock. You are criticizing with the benefit of hindsight
I was thinking the same thing  
lawguy9801 : 11/14/2018 10:22 am : link
I've noticed over the years that Eli has a tendency to go "hurry-up" towards the end of a half or a game way too early. I understand that things can go wrong and you don't want to leave yourself with too little time, but there was no reason to to go hurry-up in SF territory with just under two minutes left and, as someone mentioned above, to snap the ball on the last play with something like 20 seconds left on the play clock.

Clock management has never been Eli's strong suit (remember the incomplete pass in Dallas?) and for a $20 million franchise quarterback, he sure has a lot of suits that are not strong.
The Giants look like they don't practice 2 minute situations  
Go Terps : 11/14/2018 11:29 am : link
No one is suggesting that the OL should stay in their stance for 17 seconds. Why not just get set a few seconds later into the play clock?

We're not the ones that are supposed to figure this kind of shit out. Two minute situations are supposed to be understood by the coaching staff, taught to the players, and practiced. There's no reason to believe that is going on based on what we see.
Cmon man,  
Keith : 11/14/2018 11:44 am : link
how do you expect them to practice 2 minute or situational football when they spend all their time practicing fundamentals like passing, blocking and tackling. At some point its just too much.
I get trying to score ASAP  
RollBlue : 11/14/2018 12:53 pm : link
but I'm in the camp that you let the play clock run under 10 seconds and run the play. You're on the 4 yard line, second on 1.

Would it have been ok if Mullins threw a 21 yard TD pass on the last play???

It's not a huge deal, but I'm with Terps on this one, the smarter teams would have run a little more time - 15 seconds off the clock would have almost sealed the game. Again, SF ran a play from the 21 yard line that could have won the game.
RE: RE: It is..  
kcgiants : 11/14/2018 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14177288 BigK said:
Quote:
In comment 14176850 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


just like the Carolina game criticism.

The Giants needed a TD to take the lead.

Let's say they run the clock down with running plays and don't score. Would that be fine with you guys?

An absolutely not is the only answer there.



+1

If they only had to kick a FG, then run down the clock. You are criticizing with the benefit of hindsight


+1
RE: I get trying to score ASAP  
Milton : 11/14/2018 4:58 pm : link
In comment 14177506 RollBlue said:
Quote:
but I'm in the camp that you let the play clock run under 10 seconds and run the play. You're on the 4 yard line, second and 1.
It's not about trying to score ASAP, it's about running the play as you normally would in order to maximize the chance of success. That means neither hurrying nor trying to bleed the clock. If all it took was a field goal to win, working the clock would be a consideration, but when you need a TD, it is not. It's not as if a TD was guaranteed on that play even for a Belichick coached team. Check out Tom Bray's completion percentage, it's less than 70%. It's not only Eli who doesn't complete every single pass he throws.

So let's say for the sake of argument that Eli lets the clock roll another 18 seconds and the ball is snapped with 35 seconds left on the clock. But instead of a TD, the ball falls incomplete. The play takes 3 seconds so now there's 32 seconds left on the clock and it's 3rd and one from the 3-yard line. The perfect play is called but the CB interferes with OBJ in order to prevent an easy TD. It takes 4 seconds and so now we're down to 28 seconds left and the Giants have the ball 1st and goal at the two-yard line. Now all of a sudden the Giants can use those 15 seconds they wasted away. Running the ball is more of an option because a) they are closer to the end zone, and b) they would still have plenty of time of spike the ball on 2nd and goal and wouldn't have to burn their last time out over it. Which would mean the Niners would still have to defend both the run and pass on 3rd and goal because the Giants could use their last time out if a running play was unsuccessful, thus still preserving the ability to kick the game-tying field goal.

Under no circumstances should any team be worried about anything other than having enough time of their own when they need a TD to win. They should never assume they have more than enough time. You never know when you're gonna get a new set of downs.
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