Hey, we needed the win and I get that, but given our defense isn't very good, shouldn't we have run a play or two down there inside the five so we weren't giving the ball back with so much time on the clock?
Or am I just getting picky? Maybe it was best to just play off the momentum and keep their defense on it's heals.
don't score
you need to get it into the endzone when you can
Seems like Giants always snap too quick when they need to kill time. Frustrating
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on the TD pass to Sheppard. Running the play clock to 5 secs or less would have made in nearly impossible for SF to score a TD and still given us plenty of time to run a few more plays to score (53 seconds left), especially since we had a T.O. left.
Seems like Giants always snap too quick when they need to kill time. Frustrating
I was yelling at the tv over this very thing. Why snap it at 17-18 seconds? SF still had a timeout at that point. Had you run down the clock, maybe they would have burned it.
My mistake, I went back and looked and they did snap it early. Not smart football.
You can get to cute there and lose a win as well. The priority in that situation is to score. And I think Shurmur felt (correctly, imo), that the chances of getting cute and missing out on a TD and having to settle for 3 and just a tie game, or no points and a 'L', were greater than the chances of Nick Mullens' ability to go 75 yards for a TD with one timeout with less than a minute to go.
Any well-coached team takes the TD first there, and anyone who disagrees is simply wrong.
You can get to cute there and lose a win as well. The priority in that situation is to score. And I think Shurmur felt (correctly, imo), that the chances of getting cute and missing out on a TD and having to settle for 3 and just a tie game, or no points and a 'L', were greater than the chances of Nick Mullens' ability to go 75 yards for a TD with one timeout with less than a minute to go.
Any well-coached team takes the TD first there, and anyone who disagrees is simply wrong.
I think this is the right answer. We had the FG in the bag for the tie, so scoring a TD regardless of leaving time on the clock was the most important piece. It's not like this offense is good enough to be able to dictate terms at this point.
Plus, the 9ers only had one timeout with a 95% chance of getting the ball on the 25 on a touchback. So forcing Mullens in his second start to go 75 yards for the winning TD are odds definitely in your favor - even with our D... :)
agreed.
Fact.
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It's the kind of thing that well coached teams do well and poorly coached teams like the Giants don't. It's happened many times this year, and it's probably a big reason that Shurmur's record as a head coach is 12-30.
Fact.
Exactly. Nothing was to be lost by snapping the ball on :01 rather than :18. Potentially could've urged SF to take their last TO. Their D was all set on the Shepard TD, and it's not like we caught them off-guard by snapping it at :18. Shurmur got lucky that didn't come back to bite him.
Once you get close to the goal line and you have timeouts, the offense is in control. You're not going to run out of time with the ball. It wasn't even close to running out last night.
You're not getting the ball back if you dont score, so you want to run clock.
It's such a simple and common scenario, but teams like the giants mess it up all the time. You hurry for a while to get the ball down the field, then if the conditions are right, you slow down.
It's a basic, fundamental piece of management that has a pretty big impact on win likelihood at that point in the game. There is absolutely no reason to get it wrong.
The roughing the QB call, a few ticks later, really killed us. It was a borderline call, but it looked to me that it was a little more emphatic than necessary so I won't argue. Besides, we got a massive break with the sketchy pass interference call when we needed it.
1. Why did they snap it with almost 20 seconds on the play clock?
2. Here comes another last second scoring drive to raise my blood pressure.
Eli waiting an additional 15 seconds would have had NO impact on the result of that play. SF wasn't going to change the coverage. Just makes no sense.
Totally agree, and even if some were 1st guessing at the time, it's still not great logic when trailing. Get the points when they're there. Plus, at that exact time Eli had the matchup setup perfectly for what he wanted. If he waits who knows if the Niners shift a little and that play doesn't happen as it did?
We went through this after the Carolina loss too. There are more factors involved than just using all the clock when trailing and needing to score. First priority is scoring and if the matchup is there at that time, snap the ball and get the score.
1. Why did they snap it with almost 20 seconds on the play clock?
2. Here comes another last second scoring drive to raise my blood pressure.
Eli waiting an additional 15 seconds would have had NO impact on the result of that play. SF wasn't going to change the coverage. Just makes no sense.
How do you know nothing would change? I don't get how you or anyone can say that with such absolute conviction. What if they saw they were in a bad spot and called a TO? I'm not saying it would've happened but it sure could've.
+1. I also blame Eli. He's had this problem his entire career. You have to know the situation and to slow it down. There's not reason to snap it with 20 seconds on the play clock in a rushed manner when you're goal to go, timeouts left and over a minute to play. You only have 4 plays tops. Even if you run it, you have time outs. You don't need more than 30 seconds at that point to run 4 plays if needed.
Anyone who thinks that plays too much Madden on rookie mode and thinks oh it's no problem I'll just get a TD on the next play, easy.
Scoring TDs in the red zone in the NFL is never easy. You sure as hell don't pass on it there cause you're worried about giving the other team 50 fucking seconds to score a TD.
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It's the kind of thing that well coached teams do well and poorly coached teams like the Giants don't. It's happened many times this year, and it's probably a big reason that Shurmur's record as a head coach is 12-30.
+1. I also blame Eli. He's had this problem his entire career. You have to know the situation and to slow it down. There's not reason to snap it with 20 seconds on the play clock in a rushed manner when you're goal to go, timeouts left and over a minute to play. You only have 4 plays tops. Even if you run it, you have time outs. You don't need more than 30 seconds at that point to run 4 plays if needed.
You have zero clue what's going on there, if Eli spots a weakness in the defense pre-snap that they're not ready for the play call we've drawn up you hurry up and get going before the D recognizes what's going on and fixes it.
Must be nice having such a simplistic and narrow view of everything.
Anyone who thinks that plays too much Madden on rookie mode and thinks oh it's no problem I'll just get a TD on the next play, easy.
Scoring TDs in the red zone in the NFL is never easy. You sure as hell don't pass on it there cause you're worried about giving the other team 50 fucking seconds to score a TD.
What about waiting to snap it to run some clock instead of rushing to snap it for absolutely no reason?
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In comment 14176569 Go Terps said:
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It's the kind of thing that well coached teams do well and poorly coached teams like the Giants don't. It's happened many times this year, and it's probably a big reason that Shurmur's record as a head coach is 12-30.
+1. I also blame Eli. He's had this problem his entire career. You have to know the situation and to slow it down. There's not reason to snap it with 20 seconds on the play clock in a rushed manner when you're goal to go, timeouts left and over a minute to play. You only have 4 plays tops. Even if you run it, you have time outs. You don't need more than 30 seconds at that point to run 4 plays if needed.
You have zero clue what's going on there, if Eli spots a weakness in the defense pre-snap that they're not ready for the play call we've drawn up you hurry up and get going before the D recognizes what's going on and fixes it.
Must be nice having such a simplistic and narrow view of everything.
What was your previous handle?
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In comment 14176725 Danny Kanell said:
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In comment 14176569 Go Terps said:
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It's the kind of thing that well coached teams do well and poorly coached teams like the Giants don't. It's happened many times this year, and it's probably a big reason that Shurmur's record as a head coach is 12-30.
+1. I also blame Eli. He's had this problem his entire career. You have to know the situation and to slow it down. There's not reason to snap it with 20 seconds on the play clock in a rushed manner when you're goal to go, timeouts left and over a minute to play. You only have 4 plays tops. Even if you run it, you have time outs. You don't need more than 30 seconds at that point to run 4 plays if needed.
You have zero clue what's going on there, if Eli spots a weakness in the defense pre-snap that they're not ready for the play call we've drawn up you hurry up and get going before the D recognizes what's going on and fixes it.
Must be nice having such a simplistic and narrow view of everything.
What was your previous handle?
Sounds a lot like DennyInDenville. Longlive#10 is a jerkoff.
The Giants needed a TD to take the lead.
Let's say they run the clock down with running plays and don't score. Would that be fine with you guys?
An absolutely not is the only answer there.
No change of play call needed.
This is not true at all. You can get cute with the play clock when you already have the lead, but when you are behind in the score, you snap the ball at the point in time that gives the offense the best chance at a successful play. If the QB sees the coverage he wants, it's not wise to wait any longer before calling for the ball. Lots of things can change during those ten extra seconds to be gained on the clock. Worst of which is a false start when you are on the road and you have a new guys on the OL. But it's also possible that the coverage could change (perhaps the defense thought they would have more time and were caught masking their intended coverage). And if it later comes down to 4th and goal and you get a defensive holding call on the defense that gives you a 1st down but not a TD, you could be pissed at yourself that you wasted away ten seconds that would now come in very handy.
It's one thing to work the clock when you're ahead in the score or when it only takes a field goal to put you ahead. But if you need a TD for the win, you don't play games with the play clock.
Anyone who thinks that plays too much Madden on rookie mode and thinks oh it's no problem I'll just get a TD on the next play, easy.
Scoring TDs in the red zone in the NFL is never easy. You sure as hell don't pass on it there cause you're worried about giving the other team 50 fucking seconds to score a TD.
Why does everyone act like it's a binary choice, that a TD is all but assured and the coach would be passing up a bird in hand if they elected to use more clock?
It's not like they KNEW gwu were going to score there.
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but you absolutely take the playclock down before you snap it. It’s not rocket science and if you watch winning teams, you see they do this. Some people will just defend, defend, defend. This one is pretty simple, we fail miserably at the little details that make a huge difference.
This is not true at all. You can get cute with the play clock when you already have the lead, but when you are behind in the score, you snap the ball at the point in time that gives the offense the best chance at a successful play. If the QB sees the coverage he wants, it's not wise to wait any longer before calling for the ball. Lots of things can change during those ten extra seconds to be gained on the clock. Worst of which is a false start when you are on the road and you have a new guys on the OL. But it's also possible that the coverage could change (perhaps the defense thought they would have more time and were caught masking their intended coverage). And if it later comes down to 4th and goal and you get a defensive holding call on the defense that gives you a 1st down but not a TD, you could be pissed at yourself that you wasted away ten seconds that would now come in very handy.
It's one thing to work the clock when you're ahead in the score or when it only takes a field goal to put you ahead. But if you need a TD for the win, you don't play games with the play clock.
Teams do this all the time, they slow down inside the 10, especially if they have a timeout. If you want a quick look and the defense, then don't break the huddle so fast.
The sun rises in the east, death, taxes and bitching and moaning about a sin on BBI.
It’s really not a big deal anyway, they have much bigger issues. This is just another example of a weakness on this team. We are very poorly coached.
It tells you how desperate the coaches have become to just take the lead versus increase the chances of winning. And how constant losing and poor football has clouded better judgment on that field
and on BBI...
Having those 15 seconds on the clock does not benefit the giants in any way. Having those 15 seconds gives the 49ers a better chance to score if/when they get the ball back and need to score.
This is basic decision making along the lines of "if I leave my house earlier in the morning then I'm less likely to be
late for work."
Having those 15 seconds on the clock does not benefit the giants in any way. Having those 15 seconds gives the 49ers a better chance to score if/when they get the ball back and need to score.
late for work."
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In comment 14176569 Go Terps said:
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It's the kind of thing that well coached teams do well and poorly coached teams like the Giants don't. It's happened many times this year, and it's probably a big reason that Shurmur's record as a head coach is 12-30.
Fact.
Exactly. Nothing was to be lost by snapping the ball on :01 rather than :18. Potentially could've urged SF to take their last TO. Their D was all set on the Shepard TD, and it's not like we caught them off-guard by snapping it at :18. Shurmur got lucky that didn't come back to bite him.
Wrong. Eli saw what he had and did not need or want for the defense to make an adjustment just before the snap.
WTH is wrong with you people. This was a 1-7 team that cannot score in the Red Zone and you all want to get cute? They cannot score from the 1 yardline and you guys want to allow the defense to read the alignment and get set.
Never ends. Shurmur is always wrong and you are all experts.