Hey, we needed the win and I get that, but given our defense isn't very good, shouldn't we have run a play or two down there inside the five so we weren't giving the ball back with so much time on the clock?
Or am I just getting picky? Maybe it was best to just play off the momentum and keep their defense on it's heals.
2-7 and we're supposed to be happy after beating a 1 win team. Pathetic standards.
2-7 and we're supposed to be happy after beating a 1 win team. Pathetic standards.
Multiple times this season the Giants have been completely clueless with regards to managing the clock and managing timeouts. Multiple times. In those situations they have not even looked like a professionally run football team.
No one is moving the goal posts. This is a badly coached team that lacks game management, the ability to make in game adjustments, and overall attention to detail.
Shurmur can't do much about the talent on his roster, but he should damn sure be able to manage the game and play clocks. He hasn't even done that.
Quote:
It's the kind of thing that well coached teams do well and poorly coached teams like the Giants don't. It's happened many times this year, and it's probably a big reason that Shurmur's record as a head coach is 12-30.
+1. I also blame Eli. He's had this problem his entire career. You have to know the situation and to slow it down. There's not reason to snap it with 20 seconds on the play clock in a rushed manner when you're goal to go, timeouts left and over a minute to play. You only have 4 plays tops. Even if you run it, you have time outs. You don't need more than 30 seconds at that point to run 4 plays if needed.
I sort of disagree. If you see the defense is out of position, confused, misaligned, or you just have a mismatch, there's definitely a case there to snap the ball quickly. Not saying it happened in that situation but rather than let the defense correct their alignment or switch up the play, wouldn't you want your QB to get the ball snapped ASAP in that situarion?
Now say you line up at the same time the Giants did. The pre-snap reads happen to be good. You want a bunch of 300+ pound lineman to maintain a relatively uncomfortable stance for 12-16 seconds? You're begging for a false start. You're also giving the defense that same amount of time to figure out what is going on so they can change what they are doing. And hey, what if they do that and now the perfect playcall we had at 18 seconds is shit, but there's only 5 seconds left. Not enough time to audible. You want Eli burning a TO there? He would (rightfully) get crucified.
You line up with time to read the defense and snap when ready, that's it.
Now say you line up at the same time the Giants did. The pre-snap reads happen to be good. You want a bunch of 300+ pound lineman to maintain a relatively uncomfortable stance for 12-16 seconds? You're begging for a false start. You're also giving the defense that same amount of time to figure out what is going on so they can change what they are doing. And hey, what if they do that and now the perfect playcall we had at 18 seconds is shit, but there's only 5 seconds left. Not enough time to audible. You want Eli burning a TO there? He would (rightfully) get crucified.
You line up with time to read the defense and snap when ready, that's it.
lol, this is so silly. OL cant stay in their stances for 12 seconds. Nonsense.
Quote:
This place, man. Do you guys have any idea how many things can change or go wrong in 17 seconds? Sure, the pacing could have been better, we maybe could have taken a few more seconds before breaking the huddle or taking our time getting lined up. Maybe. But what happens when you get to the line with 10 seconds and Eli has to audible because the defense is in a bad look for the playcall? Now you've got a bunch of guys changing assignments and trying to get on the same page before what is at that point the most crucial play of the game.
Now say you line up at the same time the Giants did. The pre-snap reads happen to be good. You want a bunch of 300+ pound lineman to maintain a relatively uncomfortable stance for 12-16 seconds? You're begging for a false start. You're also giving the defense that same amount of time to figure out what is going on so they can change what they are doing. And hey, what if they do that and now the perfect playcall we had at 18 seconds is shit, but there's only 5 seconds left. Not enough time to audible. You want Eli burning a TO there? He would (rightfully) get crucified.
You line up with time to read the defense and snap when ready, that's it.
lol, this is so silly. OL cant stay in their stances for 12 seconds. Nonsense.
It's not silly. Will Hernandez had one because he lost his balance earlier in the same game and he was only in his stance a fraction of the time. I'm not saying it's impossible to maintain the stance for that long at all, but you're increasing the chances of a false start exponentially.
The correct strategy for a team that is 1-7 is to win the game. The correct strategy is for Eli to snap the ball when he feels he has the defense beaten. The correct strategy for a team that is awful in the red zone is to get a TD at any cost.
Now, if you think they should run the clock down to 1 second then your argument is with the 14 year starter not the head coach. I did not see the HC behind the center. I saw a 14 year vet, a likely HoF QB who has been in the same position time and again. While people have questioned some of the decisions Eli makes while in the pocket, I don't ever remember people questioning his ability to read a defense.
A lot of good points on either side.
Generally speaking it is always better to use the play clock to your advantage in that reducing the amount of time remaining after a score leads to a better chance to win.
I can see snapping quickly under the following circumstances:
1. Maintaining momentum or offensive rhythm. This ties into offensive execution or the arguments about avoiding penalties, holding alignments too long, or giving defensive players keys to what you plan to run.
2. Keeping a defense from switching out tired players.
3. Defensive confusion or misalignment.
4. Identifying some other offensive advantage such as a defensive call you don't want them to audible out of.
Thoughts on those kinds of arguments.
1. Poorly coached teams have to worry about execution or giving off keys based on alignment, etc. If you make that case you accept that the team isn't well-coached.
2. The defense was not switching out players. The defense was as concerned with preserving clock at that point as many here seem to be. Even if they wanted to there are ways to prevent that by breaking the huddle and approaching the line, even if linemen/players aren't set.
3. Watch the clip again - the ball wasn't snapped because the defense wasn't set and Eli was capitalizing. The defense was set.
4. Giants were in 11 personnel with 3 WR on the line, EE off RT and SB in the backfield. OBJ is split far right. 9 defenders are on the line, all db's in tight man coverage except two (LB on EE and a single-high safety) as the Giants set. Eli raises his leg and the single-high safety drifts towards OBJ's side protecting the inside. Realistically, what could they have done to adjust/switch the call? The crowd was very loud. The secondary being split from sideline to sideline would not have been able to communicate a change in assignments clearly to everyone. There was no realistic threat that the Giants were going to give up an advantage if they held the position.
The bottom line is that a well-coached team in that position should have broke the huddle with every player prepared for a ten-second or longer run off.
It worked out. Pointing out this little problem doesn't make one a hater. This is a Giants fan site where we should be free to discuss our reactions to the situation. It should surprise no one that at least some of the more knowledgeable fans were wanting to let the clock tick in that situation.
I watch a ton of football. There are people in this thread suggesting that the line should have stayed in their stances for 17 seconds so Eli hikes the ball with 1 second left. THAT is what is absurd here. That is damn near half the playclock. It just doesn't happen.
Do yourself a favor, break out a stopwatch, and time it tomorrow night. Unless there's an audible (in which case lineman generally get out of their stances anyway) or the offense is trying to draw the defense offsides (in which case the offensive players are literally only worried about staying in their stance), it is pretty rare for an OL to stay set in their stances for 10+ seconds.
A lot of good points on either side.
It worked out. Pointing out this little problem doesn't make one a hater. This is a Giants fan site where we should be free to discuss our reactions to the situation. It should surprise no one that at least some of the more knowledgeable fans were wanting to let the clock tick in that situation.
Dan, of course, in an ideal situation you let the clock run down. But when are the Giants in an ideal or even normal situation.
Again, Terps is shitting on the HC. Eli was the one who called for the snap. I have to think that Eli liked what he saw and ran the play. He was quite decisive. I do not know Eli's reasoning for the quick snap. But he did it. He liked what he saw.
But it remains, the 14 year likely HoF QB, made the decision to snap the ball based on what he saw. It resulted in the game winning TD.
And funny thing is, I agree that running the clock down would have been better in that situation.
The Giants needed a TD to take the lead.
Let's say they run the clock down with running plays and don't score. Would that be fine with you guys?
An absolutely not is the only answer there.
+1
If they only had to kick a FG, then run down the clock. You are criticizing with the benefit of hindsight
Clock management has never been Eli's strong suit (remember the incomplete pass in Dallas?) and for a $20 million franchise quarterback, he sure has a lot of suits that are not strong.
We're not the ones that are supposed to figure this kind of shit out. Two minute situations are supposed to be understood by the coaching staff, taught to the players, and practiced. There's no reason to believe that is going on based on what we see.
Would it have been ok if Mullins threw a 21 yard TD pass on the last play???
It's not a huge deal, but I'm with Terps on this one, the smarter teams would have run a little more time - 15 seconds off the clock would have almost sealed the game. Again, SF ran a play from the 21 yard line that could have won the game.
Quote:
just like the Carolina game criticism.
The Giants needed a TD to take the lead.
Let's say they run the clock down with running plays and don't score. Would that be fine with you guys?
An absolutely not is the only answer there.
+1
If they only had to kick a FG, then run down the clock. You are criticizing with the benefit of hindsight
+1
So let's say for the sake of argument that Eli lets the clock roll another 18 seconds and the ball is snapped with 35 seconds left on the clock. But instead of a TD, the ball falls incomplete. The play takes 3 seconds so now there's 32 seconds left on the clock and it's 3rd and one from the 3-yard line. The perfect play is called but the CB interferes with OBJ in order to prevent an easy TD. It takes 4 seconds and so now we're down to 28 seconds left and the Giants have the ball 1st and goal at the two-yard line. Now all of a sudden the Giants can use those 15 seconds they wasted away. Running the ball is more of an option because a) they are closer to the end zone, and b) they would still have plenty of time of spike the ball on 2nd and goal and wouldn't have to burn their last time out over it. Which would mean the Niners would still have to defend both the run and pass on 3rd and goal because the Giants could use their last time out if a running play was unsuccessful, thus still preserving the ability to kick the game-tying field goal.
Under no circumstances should any team be worried about anything other than having enough time of their own when they need a TD to win. They should never assume they have more than enough time. You never know when you're gonna get a new set of downs.