From ESPN+ today...
Oregon's Justin Herbert is the top quarterback in the 2019 class -- if he declares for the draft. No. 2? It's still up for grabs. I've been waiting all season for Jones to assert himself in the conversation, and he did it in Saturday's win over North Carolina, putting up 547 yards from scrimmage, with 361 passing and another 186 on the ground. The fourth-year junior showed off his athleticism in running the read-option to gash the Tar Heels, and he made some big-time throws. I love the way the 6-foot-4, 220-pound Jones maneuvers and buys time in the pocket -- he's ahead of his curve with his footwork. Now, the negatives about Jones in the past have been about his decision-making -- he has thrown 26 interceptions in his three seasons as a starter. He forces throws at times and is overly aggressive. Jones has been better at limiting those poor throws in 2018. He is also going to get a bump because he has learned from quarterback whisperer David Cutcliffe at Duke. This is an interesting class, as only Herbert has separated himself so far. Right now, I'm making Jones my No. 2 QB.
I know there is a groundswell of Jones supporters here. So this should add to that viewpoint.
Has his intermediate game changed?
Grier has been good in all areas throwing the ball. Except for the toe-stub in Ames, he's been out of his mind good.
Well, we need help/depth/talent in a lot of areas. With a soon to be 38 year old, immobile QB, I think we are well in the need for a solution.
I'll digress here from this 2019 QB class talk, but that's why we need to see what we have in Lauletta. He actually could be the heir apparent. The odds are likely not, but let's find out.
And back to this QB class of 2019, I think he's sneaky good and could resemble the Watson/Mahomes class.
I think it is going to be a sneaky good class and I don't see how Grier, Herbert and Jones aren't considered in the same conversation as the guys who went last year who were all considered to have one pretty significant wart or another.
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Kiper said the Colts were stupid for not drafting Trent Dilfer.
I know nothing about Daniel Jones, but I do know that North Carolina is terrible. Having a career day against North Carolina isn't like doing it against Clemson or Alabama.
Well, be careful. The Pac12 is dreadful this year. So it's not like Herbert is playing against the rugged defenses of the SEC (and I know you aren't suggesting this).
I have Grier #1. I think right now he's a better QB than Herbert. But one certainly has to be intrigues with Herbert's physical attributes. They are hard to ignore.
I've seen Jones but need to see more. So Clemson will be a real tester in Death Valley this Saturday...
I wasn't advocating for any other QB. I was just warning that just because Kiper says something doesn't make it so.
His ints were a lot uglier, Jones will try to thread through tight coverage (keep in mind his team is about 1/1000000th as good as Darnolds was, so he has to try to force the issue sometimes)
Darnold would toss up 50 yard fade away hail Mary's blind, so many of Darnolds throws could be snapshot and captioned "fuck it"
Jones is far more polished and not half as blatantly reckless. He's also far superior to Darnold at operating under pressure.
I think it is going to be a sneaky good class and I don't see how Grier, Herbert and Jones aren't considered in the same conversation as the guys who went last year who were all considered to have one pretty significant wart or another.
I need to see more on each of these guys, but at this point I suspect you're right about those three. Jones is the hardest to evaluate because he plays with a weak o-line and poor receivers. Grier seems to have a very quick release and may be the most accurate of the three.
I need to see more on each of these guys, but at this point I suspect you're right about those three. Jones is the hardest to evaluate because he plays with a weak o-line and poor receivers. Grier seems to have a very quick release and may be the most accurate of the three.
Grier is really on a role. That game winning throw he made 2 weeks ago in TX was absurdly good. Holgorsen and Spavital have done a great job developing this offense for Grier.
WVU is just a really good offensive team right now. In fact, I was initially high on their LT Cajuste, too, but he's tailed off the last month.
Poor Dave B. He always came to play, gotta give him that
When it comes to QB's its almost like Tyson said; Everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth (or something like that). By that I mean look at Darnold. He was going to be fantastic and the Giants were idiots for not picking him. Don't get me wrong, Darnold seems like he's going to be at least an above average QB. BUT, they make him the openeing day starter, he eventually 'struggles' and now he's also in a boot. A writer in the Post even said he's going to struggle in the cold wind weather at Met Life. You need a good coach, supporting cast and a decent offensive line for a young QB to prosper. You just don't know. Was there ONE person who would have predicted Brady would become the GOAT? I think it helped that he had BB as a headcoach among other factors.
So speculate away. I like to hear all the plans hear on Big Blue know it all! ;)
I d be fine if he was a Giant, and patient, just like we were with Simms and Eli.
Eli’s entire career is a product of Giants fans being patient if you ask me.
As it turned out Eli won a division title in his first full season as starter. He won a Super Bowl in year 4. It did not exactly take long for Eli to find success and yet you had many NYG fans lamenting the trade and questioning his ability. I don’t see how one could argue otherwise.
Some guy named Eli...
More time? Part of why I like him so much is because he is prob the most polished of the bunch and the most pro ready of all the QBs. When I see him over throw receivers and see guys drop his passes, I bite my lip a bit because guys like Saquon, Odell and Shep would do a ton more with them.
Forget a cannon. I know he does not possess one. But can he make the deep throw? Or is the ball always going to hang and be an interception waiting to happen?
If he cannot make all the throws, he should be viewed as a career backup. This is not a miss on a 4th rd. pick.
Herbert has been dreadful. What games has he been watching?
Herbert has been dreadful. What games has he been watching?
Herbert has been dreadful? What games have you been watching?
Herbert has been dreadful. What games has he been watching?
Dreadful is a bit harsh. But he certainly hasn’t been great. He’s now under 60% completion % in the putrid Pac12.
Dreadful is a bit harsh. But he certainly hasn’t been great. He’s now under 60% completion % in the putrid Pac12.
Agreed this is a fair assessment. Herbert is raw and he needs work but the talent is there. In the right situation he could be a franchise QB.
I agree in fact I would say top 10 pick. I think Jones has talent but I don't see a franchise QB there. I think Jones will go in round 1 but in the mid to late teens. Lock has talent but the accuracy and leadership concerns will likely put him in the 20-35 range of the draft.
I think Grier will end up being a late 1st to mid 2nd round pick. Some team, probably Jacksonville, will fall in love with Lock's arm talent. I wonder if Haskins will go back to school now that he has struggled after a hot start.
Has his intermediate game changed?
I think it's time to end the knock on Air Raid QB's. The NFL is moving towards spread offense. Mahomes and Goff were both Air Raid QB's. Grier's arm is elite and he regularly fits the ball into NFL windows. My biggest criticism on him would be that he tends to hold onto the ball too long.
Agreed this is a fair assessment. Herbert is raw and he needs work but the talent is there. In the right situation he could be a franchise QB.
Assuming he declares, here’s what Herbert has going for him - the Combine. He’s going to put on a show on and off the field (high marks about his character). So wherever he is ranked once the season ends will be further elevated by his trip to Indianapolis in February.
On the other hand, my guy Will Grier will be under pressure at the Combine to have all the right metrics since he certainly isn’t the freak athlete that Herbert is...
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"This is an interesting class, as only Herbert has separated himself so far."
Herbert has been dreadful. What games has he been watching?
Herbert has been dreadful? What games have you been watching?
Maybe a bit harsh but based on expectations (going into this season) vs reality, he's been a MAJOR disappointment. If you were evaluating his NFL prospects based on this season alone, he wouldn't be a first round pick. Fact.
Funny, I don't see a much difference between Grier and Mayfield. Except Grier is bigger.
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between Grier and Rudolph from Okla. St. Except Rudolph is bigger.
Funny, I don't see a much difference between Grier and Mayfield. Except Grier is bigger.
And Mayfield is way better?
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some sick throws in the long ball, but he also plays in Air Raid offense.
Has his intermediate game changed?
I think it's time to end the knock on Air Raid QB's. The NFL is moving towards spread offense. Mahomes and Goff were both Air Raid QB's. Grier's arm is elite and he regularly fits the ball into NFL windows. My biggest criticism on him would be that he tends to hold onto the ball too long.
"Grier's arm in elite...."
Two questions - what do you define as "elite?"
and
What game(s) have you seen this elite arm displayed?
He has solid arm strength, is accurate...but no chance that he is elite. Compare him to Mahomes & Rogers, as that is what "elite" arms look like.
"Grier's arm in elite...."
Two questions - what do you define as "elite?"
and
What game(s) have you seen this elite arm displayed?
He has solid arm strength, is accurate...but no chance that he is elite. Compare him to Mahomes & Rogers, as that is what "elite" arms look like.
I really like Grier but you are right - his arm isn't elite in the manner in which I sue that term either. It's definitely NFL good enough, as is his accuracy...
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In comment 14177371 dep026 said:
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between Grier and Rudolph from Okla. St. Except Rudolph is bigger.
Funny, I don't see a much difference between Grier and Mayfield. Except Grier is bigger.
And Mayfield is way better?
Way better? I guess Mayfield is better by the classic stats - TDs, Yards, etc. But not way better in terms of skills...
Running from the police?
More mobile.
Stronger arm.
Accuracy, arm strength, mobility, pocket presence, etc.
I think the differences are negligible with all of those.
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?
Running from the police?
I was going to say slip one past the goalie or take some roids.