I am interested in some analysis on Phil Simms

But when you talk about where he ranked among his peers, it's kind of ironic, because in a lot of ways it is right in line with how Eli is ranked among his peers. He was on a tier below Joe Montana and Dan Marino same as Eli is a tier below Tom Brady and Drew Brees.

The strength of his game was his willingness to stand in there and take a hit in order to deliver the ball to the intended target. There was a receiver from the Broncos (Arthur Marshall?) that came to the Giants after Reeves became head coach who said he appreciated how Phil Simms gave him that extra split second to get open that John Elway did not.

He would be no doubt in the Hall of Fame. The rules and the way the game is played now is so different.

His weakness compared to ELi was his durability.

You can't compare stats. The Giants were the definition of a Smash Mouth football team back then. Run, Run, Run and then run some more.

He also had receivers (not counting Barvaro) that would have a tough time making it on teams practice squad now.

Like Milton said, Phil would stand in there to the last possible second to throw the ball.. he was fearless..

He was one tough SOB. He was a vocal leader. He wasn't a mobile QB. He could slide in the pocket and buy time.

The one thing I always thought about and still do is I don't know if the Giants beat the Bills in Super Bowl XXV with Simms? The Bills were scary good on defense. Hostetler was more mobile and a better athlete. I think that helped. Again I am not sure of that outcome. I think that is what is keeping Simms out of the Hall.. that 2nd Super Bowl Victory. I think that is what gets Eli in.

Had a better arm the Eli.

From 1985-1990 he was viewed as a tier below the top echelon of QBs. There wasnt as many good QBs as now for me to Say exactly. He was also ascending

By 1990, Simms hit his peak. He was having an MVP caliber season and Giants started 10-0. He was amazing.

Simms still had a few years left but he was mirred with recovering from injury, QB controversy with Hostetler, terrible coach in Handley. Simms proved he could still play in 1993 but the team was done. Giants forced him out with gas left in the tank and he chose to retire instead of going to Cards.

If Simms didnt get hurt in 1990, he may have made Hall. He was just emerging as a top level QB. Maybe he wins #2. Maybe he finishes top 5 in MVP. Maybe things play out differently at HC. Maybe you add in 3-5 years starting stats to his resume instead of splitting time with Hoss. Who knows?

As for Eli. Elis early years from 04-06 were better and shorter than Simms early years from 79-83. Eli peak years from 2007-2013 were better and more consistent than Simms peak from 84-90. Elis end of career from 2014-now is longer than Simms 91-93. Simms went out on a high note in 93. Eli best season in 2011 tops Simms best season in 90.

All in all, Eli was better than Simms and more durable. But even when Simms played I think Eli was better.

agree with almost all points on Simms, except the HOF thing. Simms could have some big passing days but he wasn't ever dynamic enough to Hall-worthy.

Tough guy in an era where the NFCE (actually the whole NFC) played some tough ball...

It would have been interesting to see Eli play in the 80s under Parcells ... with that great OL, 2 TEs that could both block & catch, and running backs that could also catch, I think Eli would have been great. His personality & work ethic would have meshed with big bill and he would have gotten the most out of the limited skill set the WRs had ... heck, McKonkey may have had 1000 yards as the slot receiver.

In comment 14178092 twostepgiants said:

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From 1985-1990 he was viewed as a tier below the top echelon of QBs. There wasnt as many good QBs as now for me to Say exactly. He was also ascending By 1990, Simms hit his peak. He was having an MVP caliber season and Giants started 10-0. He was amazing. Simms still had a few years left but he was mirred with recovering from injury, QB controversy with Hostetler, terrible coach in Handley. Simms proved he could still play in 1993 but the team was done. Giants forced him out with gas left in the tank and he chose to retire instead of going to Cards. If Simms didnt get hurt in 1990, he may have made Hall. He was just emerging as a top level QB. Maybe he wins #2. Maybe he finishes top 5 in MVP. Maybe things play out differently at HC. Maybe you add in 3-5 years starting stats to his resume instead of splitting time with Hoss. Who knows? As for Eli. Elis early years from 04-06 were better and shorter than Simms early years from 79-83. Eli peak years from 2007-2013 were better and more consistent than Simms peak from 84-90. Elis end of career from 2014-now is longer than Simms 91-93. Simms went out on a high note in 93. Eli best season in 2011 tops Simms best season in 90. All in all, Eli was better than Simms and more durable. But even when Simms played I think Eli was better.

Did you watch Phil Simms play or follow his career in real time? Just curious.

In comment 14178088 Tom from LI said:

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He also had receivers (not counting Barvaro) that would have a tough time making it on teams practice squad now.

That team was all about the O Line, they never had the most prolific skill position players, but it proved that if you can win the LOS and protect the QB you can move the ball.

In comment 14178085 Milton said:

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But when you talk about where he ranked among his peers, it's kind of ironic, because in a lot of ways it is right in line with how Eli is ranked among his peers. He was on a tier below Joe Montana and Dan Marino same as Eli is a tier below Tom Brady and Drew Brees. The strength of his game was his willingness to stand in there and take a hit in order to deliver the ball to the intended target. There was a receiver from the Broncos (Arthur Marshall?) that came to the Giants after Reeves became head coach who said he appreciated how Phil Simms gave him that extra split second to get open that John Elway did not.

I agree with all of this. and Tom's mention of how tough he was is true. If Simms played with the rules protecting the QB like today's rules he would have been even better. He's right up there on my list as favorite Giants QB's and I've seen a few before him too. Simms took a bunch of crap from fans probably a lot more so than Eli. My opinion, Simms still had some left in the tank when they released him. Many fans like myself weren't happy when they let him go.

Phil isn�t even close to being our best. I�d rate them in this order:

1-Eli

2-Tittle

3-Phil

4-Conerly

5-Tarkenton

because two different eras and two different styles of offense. Parcells was a run as much as possible coach and threw only when necessary. Simms never had the receivers Eli had but Simms threw one of the best deep seam passes I have ever seen.
Phil was tough as nails, got the crap beat out of him and at one time held the NFL record for being sacked the most lifetime with 477 (avg 2.9 per game). So those of you who think Eli would do better behind that line, think again. Eli has been sacked 391 times in a lot more games (60) averaging about 1.7 per game.
Having seen both, I think Eli is the better QB, but not by much. I think if Simms had Eli's receivers his passing numbers would be a lot better. Eli is a lot more durable.

and is a Hall of Fame person. So is Eli. If Bill Walsh had drafted Simms like he wanted to no one ever would have heard of Joe Montana.

You should have seen Simms as rookie in 1979. After all the horrible football since 1965 and all the QB's who couldn't play here came this guy no one ever heard of throwing lasers around Giants Stadium. Of course he got hurt and he kept getting hurt because the team around him was awful. His career really didn't get started until 1984 five years wasted and lots of injuries after 1979.

When Simms played the rules were completely different and so were the Giants. The only thing that kept Simms out of the HOF were injuries that didn't allow him to compile and forced him to miss SB 25.

Simms was a better and more accurate passer than Eli. He was a much better athlete than Eli. As tough as Eli is Simms was tougher.

But Eli has a magic or did until 2012 that is really rare. Ernie was right about him.

They are hard to compare because of the era's and the NFL rules. 1 & 1A for me. A tie that Eli breaks because he is the only Giants QB to win 2 championships.

Era. Comparing passing stats to today's quarterbacks is totally an irrelevant stats.

You have to judge the two quarterbacks, Eli , Simms, by the eye test.

Some think Eli was better some Simms. They are both great Giants quarterbacks.

For guys my age, Simms took the Giants to a place that prior to him, 64 to 80, Giants fans could only dream about. For that reason he holds a a special place in our fandom.

If I had to chose between Simms and Eli, I d take Phil, but that s just me.

just an example of how horrible the 1979 Giants were. Also an example of why some of us think we're back in the 70's with the current Giants. For those of you too young to know Fred Dryer was drafted by the Giants 10 years before this but he hated playing for the Giants especially Wellington Mara and forced his way out way before players ever did that.
Giants vs Rams 1979 - ( New Window )

In comment 14178111 Big Blue '56 said:

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Phil isn�t even close to being our best. I�d rate them in this order: 1-Eli 2-Tittle 3-Phil 4-Conerly 5-Tarkenton

I have seen them all too and pretty much agree with the rankings here. Tittle and Simms were better throwers of the football than Eli. Eli does everything �well enough� but, not to demean him, he is the ultimate game manager. His ability to make pre-snap reads and get everyone in the right position is what sets him above the others. The perfect QB has Eli�s mind, Simms or Tittle�s throwing ability, and Tarkenton�s mobility. Tarik couldn�t throw worth a lick. Conerly was always the poor man�s Sammy Baugh.

and I love Simms, but as I recall, durability, cause he was fearless and took a lot of big hits waiting for plays to develop, and ball security were not his strong suits

Have been successful with the 2017 or 2018 offense.

Couple of points on Simms that IMO make him a bit under rated. First of all the type of play the Giants offense used back then under Parcells was basically run first and pass second. They were never an offense that looked to pass as they had a strong running game so Simms really never had a lot of opportunities to put up big numbers. However he was good at managing the game. Second he had a couple of good receivers but never anyone great to throw too. His best receiver was Bavaro. Finally there was no one in the game that could throw the seam pass better than Phil. All in all I think he is border line HOF but I will say he often outplayed the other team's QB some of whom were viewed to be the best in the game at the time. I.E. Elway in the Super Bowl.

In comment 14178135 arniefez said:

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just an example of how horrible the 1979 Giants were. Also an example of why some of us think we're back in the 70's with the current Giants. For those of you too young to know Fred Dryer was drafted by the Giants 10 years before this but he hated playing for the Giants especially Wellington Mara and forced his way out way before players ever did that. Giants vs Rams 1979 - ( New Window )

That was a tough watch...

if he played during Simms' time?

Eli had his games where he was mauled, like the SF game, but Simms always had 6 games in the NFC East, every year where he took a beating.....the defense could get away with a lot more way back when....look what LT did to QB's....would never happen today...

He had a running game and a top 10 defense his entire career. the talent when he was quarterback was always on the other side of the ball, except for maybe bavaro. He also had a really good offensive line for most of his career. The Giants never went into a game where the opponent said, 'oh we have to worry about Simms lighting it up. The opponent was worried about the grinding style of run and defense the Giants played. If you look at the I take Eli over Simms. If you look at Superbowl XXV, where Simms didn't play, the story was, the run and gun Bills offense vs Parcells ball control time management strategy. If you ask me, I would rather have had Hostetler the whole time and even now as he is more mobile than Eli;)

Parcells made him a hard-nosed competitor. He was accurate and had a strong arm. He was a statue and in today's NFL, would have been no better then Eli in terms of evading a rush. In fact he might have been slower. Simms was also injured quite a bit and not as durable as Eli. Now Simms played in an Era where hitting the QB was not "verboten", and maybe that contributed to some of his injury woes?! Simms also didn't always have a great supporting cast of WRs, like Eli does. He had WRs that were very reliable/capable, but not necessarily game-breakers. Bavaro was probably one of the better receivers he had to throw to. Eli has been a fantastic Giant QB and I'll never forget what he did for this team, but Simms will always be my favorite, hence the handle.

and the successes he led the Giants to after enduring 18 miserable years of Giants football. But not at any point during his career did I think he was HOF worthy (nor do I now).

In comment 14178109 Blue21 said:

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In comment 14178085 Milton said: Quote: But when you talk about where he ranked among his peers, it's kind of ironic, because in a lot of ways it is right in line with how Eli is ranked among his peers. He was on a tier below Joe Montana and Dan Marino same as Eli is a tier below Tom Brady and Drew Brees. The strength of his game was his willingness to stand in there and take a hit in order to deliver the ball to the intended target. There was a receiver from the Broncos (Arthur Marshall?) that came to the Giants after Reeves became head coach who said he appreciated how Phil Simms gave him that extra split second to get open that John Elway did not. I agree with all of this. and Tom's mention of how tough he was is true. If Simms played with the rules protecting the QB like today's rules he would have been even better. He's right up there on my list as favorite Giants QB's and I've seen a few before him too. Simms took a bunch of crap from fans probably a lot more so than Eli. My opinion, Simms still had some left in the tank when they released him. Many fans like myself weren't happy when they let him go.

I agree with all of this as well.

Just wanted to also mention how Bill Walsh was all set to draft Phil and was irate when the Giants took him before he could. Thats got to be something Phil should be proud of. Knowing one of the greatest coaches ever wanted him to QB his up and coming team.

and to a couple of threads above I believe you have to take into account how ALL of them played in their respective era's. Having 'grown up' watching Simms, What I loved about him was his gritty toughness and his vocal leadership(which Eli TOTALLY lacks). What I love about Eli was his coolness under pressure. In a big game, who do I want? Eli. In a game winning drive, who do I want? Eli. In the malaise and losing that we find our selves in now, I want Simms. Simms was fired up. Even when our teams sucked. It was the defense and Simms. Another unfortunate thing for Eli is that he had LT on his team. One of the greatest players of all time.

......I would not agree.

He was at his best from 1984 through 1990...with his peak being those middle years. Simms was excellent at throwing the 15 yard out on a dime and also hitting the TE down the seam.

As most have said, he played in a different era, and if he had played on a different type of team - meaning better weather and better receivers - his stats would have improved dramatically. Bavaro was awesome, but his WRs were nothing extraordinary. As George Young said, Simms willed himself to be a terrific performer. The guy was all winning, nothing less.

One of my fav memories of his persona was after a loss to Dallas right before the strike in 1987...a camera man followed him off the field and Simms waved him off as if to say "I'm in no mood for this right now - back off." You talk about a guy who hates to lose, at Dave Gettleman says, it was Simms.

Also hurting Simms, no pun intended, was he was simply hurt an awful lot. And again, the game is different. Simms stood in the pocket better than any QB I have ever seen, took the hit to complete the pass. Today, many of those hits would be roughing no doubt.

Simms was probably along with LT my fav player to watch growing up. And I can say that to me, is HOF exclusion is probably correct. He comes up just short....had he QB'd that second SB victory he'd be in.

I also believe had Simms not been hurt in 1990, we would have come up short. The Giants had become way to predictable in 1990, and the need to mix things up was forced upon the coaching staff due to Hostetler now starting.

An all time great Giant.

What more do you need to know? He showed up. He took chances. He was a bit of a gunslinger.

It was a different era, and he was great.

.

..and this goes to how things have changed, and how it was a different era.

Simms is quoted as saying how much hatred he had for teams like the 49er and Philly.

Today, I get the impression guys go home after practice and have their other life - not that there's anything wrong with it. Guys exchange uniforms after games, chat, buddy it up........that didn't really exist back then.

It just seemed a little more personal back then, and Simms again personified that.

Sometimes, much as I cherish his career with the Giants, I almost wish he had gone to SF so people would have appreciated how good he really was.

Also, something people overlook - by the late '80s, he was a statue, but before all of the injuries he could move just fine. He was a very good athlete.

In comment 14178360 BillKo said:

Quote:

Simms is quoted as saying how much hatred he had for teams like the 49er and Philly.

Mark Bavaro said he had dreams where he strangled Buddy Ryan...hahaha

In comment 14178365 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

In comment 14178360 BillKo said: Quote: Simms is quoted as saying how much hatred he had for teams like the 49er and Philly. Mark Bavaro said he had dreams where he strangled Buddy Ryan...hahaha

There ya go.....that's what I am talking about. These were rivalries fought to the bitter end.

Look at Ronny Lott (who I loved as an opposing player) and Simms after a game, the two were ready to fight!!!

in �93

Not too long ago we had one of our periodic discussions of the 1990 NFC title game, and I went looking for a quote I had read in the past. I didn't find it, but I did find the linked article that had a lot of old Niners talking about their memories of Candlestick, and it had some great quotes about the two games the teams played that season.

Rice: Oh, my God, you talk about a physical football game. You had guys taking out each other. We didn't like the Giants, and they didn't like us.

Eric Davis, 49ers cornerback, 1990-95: I remember standing on the field and listening to (Giants coach Bill) Parcells and Seifert yelling at each other across the field. We had a fourth down near midfield, and Parcells was saying, "Go for it," and throwing in some profanities. Seifert was yelling back at him. I remember the intensity of that game. It was one of those deals where you learned, "These matter."

(about the Simms-Lott confrontation)Davis: That was competition at its highest level. We were the two best teams in the league. We knew, "This is for home-field advantage." We were out there fighting. We had a ton of respect, but a strong dislike. Those guys were going at it, yelling at each other. If it hadn't been broken up, it would have been an old school, all-out barroom brawl, where guys would've been thrown out of the saloon one by one. What they were saying, you can't print. It was guys essentially saying, "The next time I see you, it's gonna be worse."

There was also this that I don't remember and never heard before, from just before Erik Howard knocking the ball out of Roger Craig's hands:

Young: That's a brutal memory. Brent makes that catch, spikes it in LT's face and screams, "It's over!" And it was over. I remember seeing him spike the ball, and then he turned to me and screamed, "I've been open all day. It's about time!" He was just letting everybody have it.

hahaha


Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14178117 section125 said:

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because two different eras and two different styles of offense. Parcells was a run as much as possible coach and threw only when necessary. Simms never had the receivers Eli had but Simms threw one of the best deep seam passes I have ever seen. Phil was tough as nails, got the crap beat out of him and at one time held the NFL record for being sacked the most lifetime with 477 (avg 2.9 per game). So those of you who think Eli would do better behind that line, think again. Eli has been sacked 391 times in a lot more games (60) averaging about 1.7 per game. Having seen both, I think Eli is the better QB, but not by much. I think if Simms had Eli's receivers his passing numbers would be a lot better. Eli is a lot more durable.

This about sums it up for me. The fact that Simms had a good OL and a power running game was negated by the fact that he had almost no weapons his entire career and Ron Erhardt's offense was predicated around running early and often.

Bill Walsh told you everything you needed to know about Simms - he wanted him in the draft, and he was disappointed when he was gone.

I don't think cross era comparisons work either. The NFL was much more run and defense friendly at that time. Do you remember that 80's Giants defense - how much of that would be allowed today? They literally killed receivers trying to catch the ball on crossing routes, and made QBs beg for mercy. Just watch the 90 NFCC, and ask yourself - how many flags/ejections would this have amounted to today?

We're lucky to have had both of them.

of the others mentioned. Give Eli and Simms Tittle's fantastic OL or give Simms today's flag football and everything changes. I know there are hundreds on BBI that became Giant fans in the second half of the '50's. They didn't see Conerly until the tail end of his career. He was good if not great from 1948 on.

He was a GREAT athlete before the Giants let him take the beating he took. Watch some of his runs in this game.
Phil Simms 1979 - ( New Window )

long-term, on-field rivalries like the 49ers/Giants of the 80s.

Sure, fanbases still recognize rivalries, but players (and coaches) move around from team to team so much now that they don't hate the guys on the other side of the LOS like they used to.

has shown over the years. He had a strong arm but not the best timing on bombs. His best throws were on a line, whether on deep outs or over the middle.

But I always loved his fire and heart. I wish that Eli had the same willingness to put teammates in their place; guys like Shockey, for example. Simms would have demanded their respect and reliable route running.

In comment 14178392 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

Not too long ago we had one of our periodic discussions of the 1990 NFC title game, and I went looking for a quote I had read in the past. I didn't find it, but I did find the linked article that had a lot of old Niners talking about their memories of Candlestick, and it had some great quotes about the two games the teams played that season. Rice: Oh, my God, you talk about a physical football game. You had guys taking out each other. We didn't like the Giants, and they didn't like us. Eric Davis, 49ers cornerback, 1990-95: I remember standing on the field and listening to (Giants coach Bill) Parcells and Seifert yelling at each other across the field. We had a fourth down near midfield, and Parcells was saying, "Go for it," and throwing in some profanities. Seifert was yelling back at him. I remember the intensity of that game. It was one of those deals where you learned, "These matter." (about the Simms-Lott confrontation)Davis: That was competition at its highest level. We were the two best teams in the league. We knew, "This is for home-field advantage." We were out there fighting. We had a ton of respect, but a strong dislike. Those guys were going at it, yelling at each other. If it hadn't been broken up, it would have been an old school, all-out barroom brawl, where guys would've been thrown out of the saloon one by one. What they were saying, you can't print. It was guys essentially saying, "The next time I see you, it's gonna be worse." There was also this that I don't remember and never heard before, from just before Erik Howard knocking the ball out of Roger Craig's hands: Young: That's a brutal memory. Brent makes that catch, spikes it in LT's face and screams, "It's over!" And it was over. I remember seeing him spike the ball, and then he turned to me and screamed, "I've been open all day. It's about time!" He was just letting everybody have it. hahaha Link - ( New Window )

Good stuff 👍👍

When he was hot, he couldn't miss. He would go through some unstoppable 10, 12, 15 perfect balls in a row. In those stretches he was a good as anyone I have ever seen throwing a football. He could be inconsistent. And he didn't have much help at WR. He was tough (he lifted with the linemen and LBs) yet he was somewhat injury prone. He's a borderline hall of famer.

Especially early in his career. As someone else pointed out, Eli rightly gets lauded for his ability to withstand the punishment SF laid on him in 2011, but Simms went through games like that in multiple games every season. I have vivid memories of watching him lying on that horrible Vet turf in those brutal Eagles games in the Buddy Ryan era.

When Phil Simms was the GIANTS QB, everybody on the offense was accountable to him.

He was the leader, at times a fiery leader. He encouraged the guys who needed it (like William Roberts) and got in the face of the guys who needed that.

I've seen them all since 1955 and I think he was a better leader than any of the rest of them. As a QB, you can argue all day about exactly where he belongs in the top five since '55, but I'd put Simms second to Eli based on all factors including leadership, arm, length of service with the GIANTS, and overall results.

What I remember most about Simms in his early days when he had not yet been anointed as the starter, was that when he was running the offense, they put points on the board - and the other QBs of the day usually did not. And putting points on the board is what a QB is paid to do. So I formed the opinion that he should be the starter quite a while before he actually got the job.

And I do think that Tuna's early decision to go with Brunner over Simms, the injury that kept him from completing the 1990 Championship season, and the decision to push him out probably prematurely in favor of Dave Brown all contributed to Simms not making the HOF.

And I still don't think he's ever had the accolades that he deserves from the NFL community. He was one tough SOB in the era before they put skirts on QBs, a Championship QB who would have won two if he hadn't been hurt late in the season, and set a "Super Bowl record that is going to stand for a long, long time.

Giants Stadium had some wicked winds. Simms perfected as much as you could, throwing accurately in that wind. He had a strong arm and threw a nice tight spiral that cut through it and was always conscious of what the winds were doing on a given game day. Add to that he was as tough of a QB as you could ever ask for as already mentioned and he was the perfect QB for those teams. Man that guy would never give up on a play no matter what rush, and inevitable hit, was coming at him.

He was one of my favorites and the perfect QB to compliment those teams, but he wasn't the Giants best QB ever.

Here's what I am convinced of - Simms could easily play in this era and shine.

Simms had a great arm. He had one of the best throws I've ever seen. The 4th and 17 throw to Johnson in '86 with Stensrud getting ready to level him was as good as it gets.

And read what Bill Walsh thought of Simms. He was enamored with him and was going to draft him in '79 if he fell. He loved him as a prospect.

But I have major reservations Eli could have played with the same effectiveness in the era Simms played in.

Eli is not mobile; and I don't see his make-up/style being able to hang in the pocket and deliver strikes. Patterns took longer to develop back then and you had to be willing to wait. In fact, I don't think Peyton would have been as effective either.

playing on those Parcells team with that OL, running game, and defense. I think he would have been just fine.

In comment 14178602 steve in ky said:

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playing on those Parcells team with that OL, running game, and defense. I think he would have been just fine.

That wasn't a great pass blocking OL. And we didn't have great receivers. Eli has had considerably more WR talent to work with than Simms. Let's be honest, it's not even close.

Outside of Manuel for a few years and maybe some time with Sherard, Simms was working with second and third tier guys...

could have played on those teams.

In comment 14178621 steve in ky said:

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could have played on those teams.

I think Eli could have played but I don't see him being as effective as Simms was - all things from that era being static.

...taking the best part of every QB.

For the arm they took Elway, for quick release they took Marino, etc. etc. They were building the ultimate Robo-QB...I think that's even the way the billed it.

From Simms, they took heart because that's what he was all about, and that sums up his career. The man gave it his all and wanted to win.

In comment 14178456 yatqb said:

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has shown over the years. He had a strong arm but not the best timing on bombs. His best throws were on a line, whether on deep outs or over the middle.

Definitely agree......he could zip it anywhere on a line. But on his deep throws, he wouldn't really arc it allowing WRs to run under it.......thus he throws had to be perfect.

I absolutely love his side arm whistler's..........batted down or not!! LOL

...often they we're coverage sacks, mediocre receivers on those Giant teams.

FWIW, cant find the quote but I know I heard Simms once say Eli was better than him.

In comment 14178656 x meadowlander said:

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...often they we're coverage sacks, mediocre receivers on those Giant teams. FWIW, cant find the quote but I know I heard Simms once say Eli was better than him.

That quote does ring a bell

Simms would come off the field after he did something wrong, maybe a pick or incompletion or whatever and Parcells would be screaming at him. Simms never intimidated gave it right back to Parcells. They fought like husband and wife. Next series they were all buddies again. Simms loved Parcells and Parcells loved him just not during the game sometimes. LOL. They both were so competitive. I'm not sure how Eli would handle that. What gets me too on another note I don't think I've ever heard a Giants fan speak ill of Parcells even though he left us. Other fans fro other teams he left not so much. That's why Parcells will always be a Giant.

Parcells was great until his massive ego took over ... Remember he left the Giants high and dry with his on / off / on again departure ... and he lost my love when he went to the Jests and the Pokes ... He may still be a Jersey boy, but he�s not an automatic Giant for life.

Plenty of Knick fans hate Pat Riley. They're idiots.

No comparison

Different eras with different rules. Probably half the sacks Simms took would be called penalties today. He took some tremendous shots. One thing that is not debatable is that Eli had so much better players to throw to. Simms had guys like Bobby Johnson, Lionel Manuel, Phil McKonkey,etc. He didn't have one guy that I would say was a standout wide receiver. Eli had Toomer, Burress, Nicks, Cruz,Beckham,etc. I personally thought that Simms was better at throwing the football with more zip and accuracy OUTSIDE of the deep ball.

In comment 14178917 Marty866b said:

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Different eras with different rules. Probably half the sacks Simms took would be called penalties today. He took some tremendous shots. One thing that is not debatable is that Eli had so much better players to throw to. Simms had guys like Bobby Johnson, Lionel Manuel, Phil McKonkey,etc. He didn't have one guy that I would say was a standout wide receiver. Eli had Toomer, Burress, Nicks, Cruz,Beckham,etc. I personally thought that Simms was better at throwing the football with more zip and accuracy OUTSIDE of the deep ball.

+1 Simms was as tough as they come, in the 85 playoff game against the bears Richard dent led with his helmet and hit Simms square in the jaw, would�ve knocked most people out. Phil go right up and kept playing!

Had he played in a throwing offense (like Jim Kelly's Bills), he would have put up huge numbers. He had a great TE in Bavaro, but Bavaro did not have a real long career. The other thing about Simms is that his wide receivers were mediocre at best. Most of them would play a few years with the Giants, get relaesed, and be out of football in another year or two. If Simms played for a passing team with the kind of receivers Maninng has had, no doubt Phil would be HOF. I thought he was superior to guys like Jim Kelly. He was a great Giant.

He was the perfect QB for the Giants at that time...tough, gritty, fiery. He embodied the team in that era. His seam passes to Bavaro were a thing of beauty. His celebrations after throwing TD passes always fired me up. Even with the limited talent at the WR position and the conservative play-calling throughout his years, he put together a really good to great career IMO. He's my personal favorite Giant of all time.