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NFT: Knicks Chat: Moving Forward

nygiants16 : 11/15/2018 8:18 am
Last night was awful, lets be real the past 2 nights have been awful. I dont think it is Fizdales fault, he is trying to find the right combinations in the midst of a bunch of garbage.

Knox needs to start the rest of the season, he is going to have great plays and awful plays. Last night he showed some really good things. Knock down some shots and he got to the rim. Problem is when he gets to the rim if he does not get fouled he throwing up bad shots. He takes off to early and right now he has tunnel vision. He needs to start though and go through the lumps you can see the talent.

Robinson is a stud. He just needs to get stronger, j dont know if he has the offensive game in his arsenal to build off of but hia defensive game will make him a stud alone. Adams was pounding him but he did not back down and i thought he was the only center to play him tough.

Mudiay offensively i thought was fine but defensively he was garbage. this is the problem with the point guards, they are all good at 1 thing and suck at the other.

Trier: I wish he could play the point and had better vision because he can get into the paint at will and he plays tough defense.

I am torn on wanting to trade hardaway because i think he could be a good 3rd or 4th option but getting rid of that money opens up so much more oppurtunity for the knicks. Plus i think Dotson and trier are more than capable handling the shooting guard position once you have more scorers availableike KP...

i actually think Dotson fits in the starting lineup that fizdale started last night better than tkm but you can not yake out tim because of his scoring but that is the problem when you have a bunch of flawed young players...

plan going forward you have to forget anout durant and getting a max and wait until you add more young talent. Pronlem is KP comes back bext year, knox is better with tim and you probably are not bad enough to completely tank and you are capprd out. Part of the reason why i would entertain trading kp if someone offered you a haul of picks and young players
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RE: Zion's going to go ahead of Barrett  
Greg from LI : 11/15/2018 12:05 pm : link
In comment 14178502 Anakim said:
Quote:
Does anyone else immediately think of Andrew Wiggins when they watch Barrett?


No
Frank showed some signs of life  
Keith : 11/15/2018 12:05 pm : link
early in the season, but the last few weeks have been the worst he's looked on the Knicks(offensively). He was attacking early in the season and getting off some good shots, even when his shot wasn't falling. Now he just looks lost. I agree with those that think he would benefit from time in the G-League.
RE: Steve, you are thinking about an Ian Begley tweet from 10/9/18  
DanMetroMan : 11/15/2018 12:07 pm : link
In comment 14178508 JustaDiscussion said:
Quote:
On a different note, it seems to me like many people don't realize that sports aren't an exact science. There isn't one right way of doing things. Not to mention that in many instances a team can make many smart moves and still not win solely based on circumstance.

Taking that into consideration it seems that the same people don't realize that human beings often don't progress along a linear curve. There usually isn't an exact moment when a player "turns the corner" and suddenly becomes better. I agree that a player shouldn't be kept based on blind faith, but an athlete's progression is much more complex than some here seem to make it out to be.


And yet we are talking theoreticals... could he improve? Is it possible? Take his age into account? Sure. But SO FAR he has not improved in any facet of his offensive game, an area in which he was already well below average last season. We can only go based on a few things... athletic tools (he's not a freak athlete), on court growth (what can you point to on the offensive end?) and production (he hasn't produced). So far it is what it is. Could that change? Sure. But so far, the eyes and numbers tell the story.
So Frank is a finished product  
ghost718 : 11/15/2018 12:08 pm : link
after 1 season and 15 games.

I think the French Connection ran an atleast an hour and a half.
RE: Frank showed some signs of life  
nygiants16 : 11/15/2018 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14178515 Keith said:
Quote:
early in the season, but the last few weeks have been the worst he's looked on the Knicks(offensively). He was attacking early in the season and getting off some good shots, even when his shot wasn't falling. Now he just looks lost. I agree with those that think he would benefit from time in the G-League.


i dont think that will help him, he is just a passive player, even wide open he hesitates...I dont know what would change that
Don’t be shocked if Scott Perry  
Earl the goat : 11/15/2018 12:14 pm : link
Trades Frank

Fizz seems to favor Mudiay and Frank isn’t Perry’s guy and I doubt he ever develops offensively
Well yeah if you want to base everything off of this months stats  
steve in ky : 11/15/2018 12:15 pm : link
I already said his 3pt shooting went into the tanks and looked like garbage right now. So his 29% this month is a direct correlation to his 3pt% being 13%, but in October with about 100 more minutes played than in November he shot 38% from 3pt range, so you can parse state any way you choose. All that pointing out Novembers stats exclusively accomplishes is to illustrate he is in a shooting funk which we all saw.

I'm not a big stats guy like you are Dan, I just watch the games and form my opinions based on what I see. Frank is struggling anyone can see it, but there are intangibles that don't always show up in stats and I'm not ready to completely write him off just yet.

One more point about Frank, as I mentioned early in the thread, the Knicks were much more competitive when they were creating offense off of defense and Frank had a lot to do with that.
RE: So Frank is a finished product  
DanMetroMan : 11/15/2018 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14178520 ghost718 said:
Quote:
after 1 season and 15 games.

I think the French Connection ran an atleast an hour and a half.


Where was this suggested? Please point out quotes where I, or anyone else closed the door on future improvement. He's been bad. There is no couching it. He's been a very, very poor offensive player even vs. other members of the 2017 class.
RE: RE: Frank showed some signs of life  
Keith : 11/15/2018 12:19 pm : link
In comment 14178524 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14178515 Keith said:


Quote:


early in the season, but the last few weeks have been the worst he's looked on the Knicks(offensively). He was attacking early in the season and getting off some good shots, even when his shot wasn't falling. Now he just looks lost. I agree with those that think he would benefit from time in the G-League.



i dont think that will help him, he is just a passive player, even wide open he hesitates...I dont know what would change that


My thought would be that confidence could help. Going to the G-League and telling him to just attack all game long might help.
Well if you're trading him  
ghost718 : 11/15/2018 12:20 pm : link
I would hope that you feel he is done growing as a player.Not for any other reason,not even because he plays on a dumb team with a wishy washy coach,and you feel bad for him.
RE: Well yeah if you want to base everything off of this months stats  
nygiants16 : 11/15/2018 12:20 pm : link
In comment 14178532 steve in ky said:
Quote:
I already said his 3pt shooting went into the tanks and looked like garbage right now. So his 29% this month is a direct correlation to his 3pt% being 13%, but in October with about 100 more minutes played than in November he shot 38% from 3pt range, so you can parse state any way you choose. All that pointing out Novembers stats exclusively accomplishes is to illustrate he is in a shooting funk which we all saw.

I'm not a big stats guy like you are Dan, I just watch the games and form my opinions based on what I see. Frank is struggling anyone can see it, but there are intangibles that don't always show up in stats and I'm not ready to completely write him off just yet.

One more point about Frank, as I mentioned early in the thread, the Knicks were much more competitive when they were creating offense off of defense and Frank had a lot to do with that.


steve can you point out these intangibles that you see? i am not calling youbbn out but i watch every single game, every single minute and i see nothing on the offensive end
RE: Well yeah if you want to base everything off of this months stats  
DanMetroMan : 11/15/2018 12:21 pm : link
In comment 14178532 steve in ky said:
Quote:
I already said his 3pt shooting went into the tanks and looked like garbage right now. So his 29% this month is a direct correlation to his 3pt% being 13%, but in October with about 100 more minutes played than in November he shot 38% from 3pt range, so you can parse state any way you choose. All that pointing out Novembers stats exclusively accomplishes is to illustrate he is in a shooting funk which we all saw.

I'm not a big stats guy like you are Dan, I just watch the games and form my opinions based on what I see. Frank is struggling anyone can see it, but there are intangibles that don't always show up in stats and I'm not ready to completely write him off just yet.

One more point about Frank, as I mentioned early in the thread, the Knicks were much more competitive when they were creating offense off of defense and Frank had a lot to do with that.


I actually care less about the numbers than SEEING something to get excited over. He had a few early season games where he looked more aggressive but I would suggest if you popped in a game of 2017 footage vs. this year you would be hard pressed to decipher which was which. That's my issue. I see praise for his hard work, saying the right things, gotta see something different on the court.
If  
DanMetroMan : 11/15/2018 12:25 pm : link
Frank were a dynamic playmaker it would be less of an issue. He has posted 5 or more assists... 4 times and over his last 6 games... 15 assists.
last night just showed the gap between the Knicks  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 11/15/2018 12:26 pm : link
and the upper level teams in the league. Bad D. Limited outside shooting. Really inopportune activity off the boards. Being out-hustled by some players I thought were out of the league. All of it is correctable.

That said, this is the only way guys will improve and the team will figure out who is part of the long-term versus the now. If you have to rely on Hardaway to score 30 a night, you aren't going to win.
If I am Perry I am not trading any of the young guys  
Oscar : 11/15/2018 12:29 pm : link
This season. There is no point. All of them are flawed players, but it’s basically a season long training camp and evaluation process. They should absolutely try to dump Kanter, Hardaway, Lee and Lance. I don’t know why they would trade anyone else this season, just play 82 and reasses in the summer.

The  
DanMetroMan : 11/15/2018 12:30 pm : link
coach is trying to win games, that's true of any coach. The development of Frank, Knox etc is all the fans care about (and rightfully so) but I think Fizdale is hurting both their chances to win and their development of young players with his current approach. Set a lineup and go with it for a while.
RE: RE: Steve, you are thinking about an Ian Begley tweet from 10/9/18  
JustaDiscussion : 11/15/2018 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14178517 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14178508 JustaDiscussion said:


Quote:


On a different note, it seems to me like many people don't realize that sports aren't an exact science. There isn't one right way of doing things. Not to mention that in many instances a team can make many smart moves and still not win solely based on circumstance.

Taking that into consideration it seems that the same people don't realize that human beings often don't progress along a linear curve. There usually isn't an exact moment when a player "turns the corner" and suddenly becomes better. I agree that a player shouldn't be kept based on blind faith, but an athlete's progression is much more complex than some here seem to make it out to be.



And yet we are talking theoreticals... could he improve? Is it possible? Take his age into account? Sure. But SO FAR he has not improved in any facet of his offensive game, an area in which he was already well below average last season. We can only go based on a few things... athletic tools (he's not a freak athlete), on court growth (what can you point to on the offensive end?) and production (he hasn't produced). So far it is what it is. Could that change? Sure. But so far, the eyes and numbers tell the story.


First off 15 games is a very small sample size to be using to base viable opinions from. Regardless, I agree that at this moment things look bleak for Frank offensively. I also, actually, wouldn't be opposed to the Knicks moving Frank if they obtained a young cost controlled player who is proven to be significantly better. I don't believe that would happen though.

Asking the Knicks to trade Frank for a future first or to attach him to a bad salary seems like a lateral move to me. I disagree with the premise that some unknown future player has more upside than Frank. Again, if Frank's shot never progresses, then yes he will never be a contributing part of a contending team, but I still struggle with the sentiment that at this early stage of his career we can predict that his shot will never improve.

It would be like if the Giants had traded Eli in 2005 after 2 games because he played so poorly in 2004 and his completion percentage was less than 50% so far for the season.
RE: The  
nygiants16 : 11/15/2018 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14178559 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
coach is trying to win games, that's true of any coach. The development of Frank, Knox etc is all the fans care about (and rightfully so) but I think Fizdale is hurting both their chances to win and their development of young players with his current approach. Set a lineup and go with it for a while.


he is trying way to hard to find the right combinations and trying to appease every player...

1.  
DanMetroMan : 11/15/2018 12:39 pm : link
I'm actually not advocating they trade Frank right now. I can't imagine they get a ton back so it seems like a gamble not worth making. His plus defense will remain after the season as well. 2. to nygiants16, well that's poor decision making. Choose your starting 5, your rotation, and roll with it for 10+ games, tweak it if you must but this constant churning helps absolutely nobody.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/15/2018 12:41 pm : link
Curious to see if any lingering bad feelings w/ the Dubs tonight in Houston.

Rockets really need to get going. They're off to a bad, bad start. Paul starting to look his age too.
RE: RE: Well yeah if you want to base everything off of this months stats  
steve in ky : 11/15/2018 12:42 pm : link
In comment 14178546 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14178532 steve in ky said:


Quote:


I already said his 3pt shooting went into the tanks and looked like garbage right now. So his 29% this month is a direct correlation to his 3pt% being 13%, but in October with about 100 more minutes played than in November he shot 38% from 3pt range, so you can parse state any way you choose. All that pointing out Novembers stats exclusively accomplishes is to illustrate he is in a shooting funk which we all saw.

I'm not a big stats guy like you are Dan, I just watch the games and form my opinions based on what I see. Frank is struggling anyone can see it, but there are intangibles that don't always show up in stats and I'm not ready to completely write him off just yet.

One more point about Frank, as I mentioned early in the thread, the Knicks were much more competitive when they were creating offense off of defense and Frank had a lot to do with that.



steve can you point out these intangibles that you see? i am not calling youbbn out but i watch every single game, every single minute and i see nothing on the offensive end


His defense is his biggest factor and his long reach impacts a lot of the oppositions passing which helps his teammates elevate their defensive games. I also think he has shown that he has good instincts for making some nice inside passes that aren't easily made. Just glimpses at this point but some of his bounce passes took great instincts and vision. He just hasn't developed that part of his game near enough, but if it doesn't develop it would add a lot. Also although he looks lost right now, to start the season I think he displayed a nice touch on his 3pt shots. He needs work but I can see where at some point he could possibly get more consistent with that shot which would lead to his having more opportunities for him to attack the basket.

He has not been playing well right now, no arguments there, but IMO there are things to look at where he is worth keeping because if they those parts of his game did come together he would be a very good player. It's not easy to find guys with his reach, defensive instincts to build his game around. IMO it's worth giving him some time before simply dumping him. Especially when factoring in his age, coming from another country, and his being hurt for last season and missing his first preseason.
RE: 1.  
nygiants16 : 11/15/2018 12:43 pm : link
In comment 14178575 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
I'm actually not advocating they trade Frank right now. I can't imagine they get a ton back so it seems like a gamble not worth making. His plus defense will remain after the season as well. 2. to nygiants16, well that's poor decision making. Choose your starting 5, your rotation, and roll with it for 10+ games, tweak it if you must but this constant churning helps absolutely nobody.


agreed 100 percent...

stick with knox and mitchell in the starting.lineup, hardaway is going to stay and as much as frank has been bad i would have no problem keeping him in...

frank hardaway knox vonleh until kp is back and robinson
Side comment.  
JustaDiscussion : 11/15/2018 12:50 pm : link
Frank looked better offensively earlier in the season playing off of the ball. I think he is playing out of position. If he is going to be playing with the second unit, I would like to see Fiz play him and Burke in the back court to see the difference.
And we have seen flashes from Frank  
Anakim : 11/15/2018 12:56 pm : link
There were games earlier in the season when he was effectively driving to the hoop and knocking down jumpshots, including from behind the arc.
RE: ...  
Anakim : 11/15/2018 12:57 pm : link
In comment 14178579 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Curious to see if any lingering bad feelings w/ the Dubs tonight in Houston.

Rockets really need to get going. They're off to a bad, bad start. Paul starting to look his age too.


Apparently Durant and Green walked into practice together this morning. Might mean nothing, but people pointed it out.
The Rockets took a big swing  
Oscar : 11/15/2018 12:57 pm : link
And unfortunately for them they look to have missed. They had it last year but Paul got hurt. Very difficult to see them breaking through now. Maybe if Durant leaves next year and Houston somehow improves a little while getting a throwback year from Paul but hard to see. And other teams will be improving as well.

Give them credit for taking a shot. Ran into an all time team.
RE: Side comment.  
steve in ky : 11/15/2018 12:58 pm : link
In comment 14178589 JustaDiscussion said:
Quote:
Frank looked better offensively earlier in the season playing off of the ball. I think he is playing out of position. If he is going to be playing with the second unit, I would like to see Fiz play him and Burke in the back court to see the difference.


Good point. If they could find a dynamic scoring pg in the draft and Knox develops into a good scoring SF, and KP comes back healthy, then Robinson anchoring the defense at center along with Frank and his defense off the ball as a guard could be interesting.
He's  
DanMetroMan : 11/15/2018 1:01 pm : link
simply not a PG. He needs to watch Courtney Lee highlights . That's the kind of player we have to hope for. Generally speaking PG's are born not developed into them.
This  
DanMetroMan : 11/15/2018 1:03 pm : link
draft looks very weak in terms of PG's. like the Giants and QB... don't reach.
RE: The Rockets took a big swing  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/15/2018 1:04 pm : link
In comment 14178595 Oscar said:
Quote:
And unfortunately for them they look to have missed. They had it last year but Paul got hurt. Very difficult to see them breaking through now. Maybe if Durant leaves next year and Houston somehow improves a little while getting a throwback year from Paul but hard to see. And other teams will be improving as well.

Give them credit for taking a shot. Ran into an all time team.


Yes, agreed. Last year might have been their only one real bite at the apple & they came up just short.
RE: This  
Anakim : 11/15/2018 1:05 pm : link
In comment 14178603 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
draft looks very weak in terms of PG's. like the Giants and QB... don't reach.


Seems like the only decent guy is Garland, who shocked the world and went to Vanderbilt
My 2 cents  
Chris684 : 11/15/2018 1:06 pm : link
Frank was a terrible pick and was so at the time. He was never thought to have star potential. All I heard about were George Hill comps if we were lucky. Role player shouldn't have been the thought process there and if you're not thinking that way, maybe you look at a Donovan Mitchell.
Sporting News  
DanMetroMan : 11/15/2018 1:17 pm : link
has 1 PG in the lottery in their new mock. That's how weak it is.
RE: Sporting News  
Anakim : 11/15/2018 1:18 pm : link
In comment 14178625 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
has 1 PG in the lottery in their new mock. That's how weak it is.


Who? Garland? Hands? Sure as hell ain't Tre Jones.
RE: RE: Sporting News  
DanMetroMan : 11/15/2018 1:21 pm : link
In comment 14178628 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14178625 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


has 1 PG in the lottery in their new mock. That's how weak it is.



Who? Garland? Hands? Sure as hell ain't Tre Jones.


Yes. Garland #10.
Garland seems like a damn good option  
bceagle05 : 11/15/2018 1:23 pm : link
if you're picking in the 5-10 range.
RE: Garland seems like a damn good option  
Anakim : 11/15/2018 1:24 pm : link
In comment 14178632 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
if you're picking in the 5-10 range.


I'd like to know why a five star HS recruit went to Vandy
RE: RE: Garland seems like a damn good option  
Jon in NYC : 11/15/2018 1:30 pm : link
In comment 14178636 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14178632 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


if you're picking in the 5-10 range.



I'd like to know why a five star HS recruit went to Vandy


Great school, local kid. Probably grew up a fan. Not going to knock someone for going to a non traditional powerhouse.

Fuck the blue bloods. Forge your own path.
For what its apparently Frank is playing through some injuries of late  
steve in ky : 11/15/2018 1:59 pm : link
Quote:
Frank Ntilikina will never use injuries as an excuse, but he admitted he has shoulder issues. His right shoulder was taped in Oklahoma City. In the locker room after the game, the Frenchman was getting ice treatment to the left shoulder. Ntilikina confirmed he’s got two strained shoulders

Link - ( New Window )
Frank is a rapidly growing kid with no muscle tone.  
manh george : 11/15/2018 2:58 pm : link
It isn't a big shock that he would wind up with shoulder weakness. Frankly (to coin a phrase) this is very good news. Let's see what he looks like healthy, stronger, and settled in at his adult height before throwing him in the garbage.

He absolutely has the stroke for a three. Let's see what he looks like with full strength and athleticism before giving up. And even as a pg, if he were shooting decently and had real strength, his ability to penetrate and kick off would improve.
RE: Frank is a rapidly growing kid with no muscle tone.  
nygiants16 : 11/15/2018 3:16 pm : link
In comment 14178743 manh george said:
Quote:
It isn't a big shock that he would wind up with shoulder weakness. Frankly (to coin a phrase) this is very good news. Let's see what he looks like healthy, stronger, and settled in at his adult height before throwing him in the garbage.

He absolutely has the stroke for a three. Let's see what he looks like with full strength and athleticism before giving up. And even as a pg, if he were shooting decently and had real strength, his ability to penetrate and kick off would improve.


if it is any consolation in 2k19 he becomes a knock down shooter
Frank was a bad pick, he just doesn’t pass the eye test. Through  
Jim in Hoboken : 11/15/2018 3:54 pm : link
thick Knick-colored glasses people were citing Greek Freak and Kawhi Leonard as precedents when preaching patience last year, now they are still using his age as an excuse. Let’s face it, he was Phil’s pick, Phil was drafting Ron Harper when we didn’t have Jordan or Pippen. I don’t know how anybody can be optimistic projecting a non-athlete whose skills have yet to arrive? Then who wouldn’t have potential? My 2 year old son is destined for stardom because he’s in the 90th percentile height-wise? Being young with long arms isn’t exactly a guaranteed recipe for success.

And Shroder was toying with him last night, what studly defense are you talking about? He’s nothing but an 8th man in the rotation who gets in the passing lane once in a while.

At this point, right now, if given a choice of Trier or Frank going forward, who would you take? Sooner or later we have to cut down the rotation and let the future pieces sink or swim. I am not sure if I’d include Frank in that group.
I'd laugh if it weren't so sad  
Greg from LI : 11/15/2018 3:57 pm : link
Erik Horne
✔
@ErikHorneOK
Steven Adams to David Fizdale during a stoppage: "Sub him (him being Enes Kanter) out. He can't play defense."

2,240
8:34 PM - Nov 14, 2018
oh, and this was fun  
Greg from LI : 11/15/2018 3:59 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
Frank  
TyreeHelmet : 11/15/2018 4:00 pm : link
I don't think he will ever be a dynamic PG or even a point guard for that matter. But I still have high hopes for him as a wing. Kris Middleton comp would be an ideal scenario.

I think he certainly brings some intangibles but I think Dan and others are correct in that he's been a major disappointment this season. What has really been disappointing from him this season is his hesitation to shoot the 3, not much improvement attacking or finishing and lack of defensive rebounding...
It's hard for me to even call Frank a disappointment  
Chris684 : 11/15/2018 4:12 pm : link
at this point.

He was never projected to be anything special. We took a role player at best with a lottery pick.
You guys are unbearable about Frank  
GMEN46 : 11/15/2018 4:49 pm : link
I was the loudest guy on this forum about D Mitchell and anti Frank. But let’s give the kid a freaking break, he is 20 years old!!! Everyone relax. The game of basketball has 2 sides offense and defense. Frank is already elite at defense as a 20 year old. He is mediocre at offense. He shows all things that you want for the potential for improvement on offense, he works hard, he is competitive, he has good vision and his shooting form while a little slow is good. He doesn’t have a great handle and that will not change much. But there are there is no doubt in 2 years he will be much improved on offense. He needs volume and he needs this failure to keep him motivated to get better. Everyone in NY wanted a rebuild and we finally have it and alotnof you guys are now complaining.
If at 23 years old Frank can be 11 pts 5 assists, 3 rebounds whole shooting 35 percent from 3 with amazing defense then that would be awesome. He can get there and will get there.

I really think the Knicks should work on his 3 pt shot obvsouly but I would really work on his post up game ala mark Jackson who would run the offense out of the post. Then his lack of handle is irrelevant. He will be able to shoot over much smaller PGs and pass out of the post. Imagine Frankie posting up in 3 years with his vision and KP at top of 3 point line with no shot blocker in the paint for the other team.

They really need to consider using him in ways that fit his skill set. Let’s give the kid a break.
Voice of reason  
idiotsavant : 11/15/2018 5:24 pm : link
.
No Knicks thread is complete until GMEN46 arrives  
PhiPsi125 : 11/15/2018 5:48 pm : link
to remind everyone that HE like Donovan Mitchell during the draft.

If nothing else you certainly are consistent.
To say that Frank is elite already defensively  
Chris L. : 11/15/2018 7:23 pm : link
is just plain wrong. When the game got out of hand last night it was the OKC point guard blowing by Frank and breaking down the Knick defense. It happened again and again. Offensively the guy is a zero. He doesn't have an explosive bone in his body. That is not going to change. He also is not a good shooter at all. When he is in he drags the offense down like an anchor. The guy is a bust and I see nothing in any of the traits he has which will reverse this.
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