Last night was awful, lets be real the past 2 nights have been awful. I dont think it is Fizdales fault, he is trying to find the right combinations in the midst of a bunch of garbage.
Knox needs to start the rest of the season, he is going to have great plays and awful plays. Last night he showed some really good things. Knock down some shots and he got to the rim. Problem is when he gets to the rim if he does not get fouled he throwing up bad shots. He takes off to early and right now he has tunnel vision. He needs to start though and go through the lumps you can see the talent.
Robinson is a stud. He just needs to get stronger, j dont know if he has the offensive game in his arsenal to build off of but hia defensive game will make him a stud alone. Adams was pounding him but he did not back down and i thought he was the only center to play him tough.
Mudiay offensively i thought was fine but defensively he was garbage. this is the problem with the point guards, they are all good at 1 thing and suck at the other.
Trier: I wish he could play the point and had better vision because he can get into the paint at will and he plays tough defense.
I am torn on wanting to trade hardaway because i think he could be a good 3rd or 4th option but getting rid of that money opens up so much more oppurtunity for the knicks. Plus i think Dotson and trier are more than capable handling the shooting guard position once you have more scorers availableike KP...
i actually think Dotson fits in the starting lineup that fizdale started last night better than tkm but you can not yake out tim because of his scoring but that is the problem when you have a bunch of flawed young players...
plan going forward you have to forget anout durant and getting a max and wait until you add more young talent. Pronlem is KP comes back bext year, knox is better with tim and you probably are not bad enough to completely tank and you are capprd out. Part of the reason why i would entertain trading kp if someone offered you a haul of picks and young players
but it is not just about losing, it is also about developing players. If you tank and have no players develop you are still in the same shitty position like the suns or kings..
Tanking only gets you so far if none of the players develop
5 people matter on this roster: Frank, Knox, Trier, Robinson, KP. Maybe Dotson which would be 6.
Stop worrying about the performance of Tim Hardaway, Kanter, Mudiay, etc. Doesn't matter. Most are gone, and Tim should be on the bench. We know what he is, and that's a more sane more cowardly JR Smith.
Stay the course. I know it's easy to say trade Kanter, trade Lee, trade the Pride of Michigan. Unfortunately, you need to find trade partners for those contracts. (Lee being the most team friendly)
Wolves beat Pelicans
#roseishurtagain ...... #jimmybutlereffect
5 people matter on this roster: Frank, Knox, Trier, Robinson, KP. Maybe Dotson which would be 6.
Stop worrying about the performance of Tim Hardaway, Kanter, Mudiay, etc. Doesn't matter. Most are gone, and Tim should be on the bench. We know what he is, and that's a more sane more cowardly JR Smith.
umm frank is the big one, he looks awful...
first half was better in the 2nd half, 2nd half he forced some shots
The Knicks are going to have to be very creative and careful with how they handle this, but I just can't see any scenario in which he isn't back by some time in January at the latest.
You would think Mills has a good idea if he was thinking about coming because of how close he is to duranta business manager...
if anyone offered a draft pick for him i would do it...
If you needed to attach him to lee and you get a first back you have to do it
I believe he can develop scoring ability but he needs to shoot more to do it.
I believe he can develop scoring ability but he needs to shoot more to do it.
he has been told this constantly it is just not in his nature, he even passes up wide open shots...
What really sucks is if he could just develop a consistent shot and take the open ones he would be perfect at the 1 because of his defense...
I get that Frank doesn't seem to be coming along as fast as most want him too, but he's 20 and has been in the league for less than a year and a half. It takes years for many NBA players to develop. I'm not saying Frank is guaranteed to be good, but to write him off already doesn't make sense to me.
Also, and I'm mostly joking here, but I do find it interesting that Lance Thomas gets hurt and the Knicks suddenly start getting blown out.
I know Frank has been a trainwreck on offense but he's a very good defender. Maybe I'm being naive but his offense is just going to take time. I'm not opposed to sending him to the GLeague for a couple games to boost his offensive confidence. But if he's not, then he needs to play more minutes. And spare me the notion that Fizdale is holding guys accountable with playing time. He's starting Mudiay and Hardaway...
I can't believe I'm saying this but I think Baker needs to play a little more. He brings some defensive IQ and overall makes things flow well out there. I'd like to see some Burke too just for his outside shooting.
If you have any chance to move Hardaway you do it. He's played pretty well so far but we all know how this act ends and he will fade. You can just what he does for a fraction of the cost he eats up your cap and he absolutely kills you on defense and with the worst ill advised shots.
One thing that consistently blows my mind is how little patience the Knicks fan base has. Basically all this franchise knows is losing and garbage basketball. They have been a joke for two decades now and have not won a title in nearly 50 years. What’s the rush? Why is everyone trying to run a 20 year old first round pick out of town in November of his second season? If any team has time to let Frank figure it out it should be the Knicks.
One thing that consistently blows my mind is how little patience the Knicks fan base has. Basically all this franchise knows is losing and garbage basketball. They have been a joke for two decades now and have not won a title in nearly 50 years. What’s the rush? Why is everyone trying to run a 20 year old first round pick out of town in November of his second season? If any team has time to let Frank figure it out it should be the Knicks.
Most successful 2nd year players are showing more than Frank at this point. Sad but true. 2017 NBA draft Frank ranks 47th in WS/48 and 51st in VORP. He's been awful.
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If they shopped him around. Way too early to give up on the kid.
One thing that consistently blows my mind is how little patience the Knicks fan base has. Basically all this franchise knows is losing and garbage basketball. They have been a joke for two decades now and have not won a title in nearly 50 years. What’s the rush? Why is everyone trying to run a 20 year old first round pick out of town in November of his second season? If any team has time to let Frank figure it out it should be the Knicks.
Most successful 2nd year players are showing more than Frank at this point. Sad but true. 2017 NBA draft Frank ranks 47th in WS/48 and 51st in VORP. He's been awful.
His point had nothing to do with arguing that Frank was putting up good stats
Get us an expiring and a pick
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In comment 14178426 Oscar said:
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If they shopped him around. Way too early to give up on the kid.
One thing that consistently blows my mind is how little patience the Knicks fan base has. Basically all this franchise knows is losing and garbage basketball. They have been a joke for two decades now and have not won a title in nearly 50 years. What’s the rush? Why is everyone trying to run a 20 year old first round pick out of town in November of his second season? If any team has time to let Frank figure it out it should be the Knicks.
Most successful 2nd year players are showing more than Frank at this point. Sad but true. 2017 NBA draft Frank ranks 47th in WS/48 and 51st in VORP. He's been awful.
His point had nothing to do with arguing that Frank was putting up good stats
So his point is blind patience? He's been REALLY bad vs. the other members of... wait for it... the same draft class. He's been awful vs. his peers. That's the only point that is relevant. He was bad last year and looks WORSE this year. That's not a concern? At what point is it one? When are fans allowed to expect a guy with limited upside (which was said all along) to look even passable on the offensive end? Year 3?
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Unload salary and get back a decent piece
Get us an expiring and a pick
Works for me
I don’t remember who but at the trade deadline someone on the Knicks broadcast team mentioned that the player most asked about by other teams was Frank.
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No denying he’s been bad on offense. But he’s been really good/ great on defense. That counts for something. The outline of a decent offensive player is there, I just hope he puts it together soon. And I 100% think there would a strong trade market for him.
I don’t remember who but at the trade deadline someone on the Knicks broadcast team mentioned that the player most asked about by other teams was Frank.
Well who else would teams be asking about at the time? The roster was absolutely barren. Not exactly glowing praise. Which players on last years roster would teams have been intrigued by more than a top 10 pick in that draft?
Early on his touch on the 3pt was looking a little better but it went in the tank and has looked like garbage for awhile.
He has been better attacking the backseat this season, something he almost never did last season. He needs to work on his 3 pt shooting and if that can improve his overall game will look remarkably better.
One thing with Frank, along with his being so young, that factors in was that last season he was injured and missed the preseason. Coming to a new country and getting thrust into it like he was and then getting hurt I think set him back a lot. I think it's fair to assume his game will progress slower early on than a player coming from the NCAA
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If they shopped him around. Way too early to give up on the kid.
One thing that consistently blows my mind is how little patience the Knicks fan base has. Basically all this franchise knows is losing and garbage basketball. They have been a joke for two decades now and have not won a title in nearly 50 years. What’s the rush? Why is everyone trying to run a 20 year old first round pick out of town in November of his second season? If any team has time to let Frank figure it out it should be the Knicks.
Most successful 2nd year players are showing more than Frank at this point. Sad but true. 2017 NBA draft Frank ranks 47th in WS/48 and 51st in VORP. He's been awful.
Do you watch the games? The lack of patience shows your ignorance.
Taking that into consideration it seems that the same people don't realize that human beings often don't progress along a linear curve. There usually isn't an exact moment when a player "turns the corner" and suddenly becomes better. I agree that a player shouldn't be kept based on blind faith, but an athlete's progression is much more complex than some here seem to make it out to be.
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In comment 14178426 Oscar said:
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If they shopped him around. Way too early to give up on the kid.
One thing that consistently blows my mind is how little patience the Knicks fan base has. Basically all this franchise knows is losing and garbage basketball. They have been a joke for two decades now and have not won a title in nearly 50 years. What’s the rush? Why is everyone trying to run a 20 year old first round pick out of town in November of his second season? If any team has time to let Frank figure it out it should be the Knicks.
Most successful 2nd year players are showing more than Frank at this point. Sad but true. 2017 NBA draft Frank ranks 47th in WS/48 and 51st in VORP. He's been awful.
Do you watch the games? The lack of patience shows your ignorance.
I've seen every single game and Frank has been absolutely awful on offense. Ignorance? lol Comical. Even people defending him acknowledge how bad he's been on that end of the floor. Patience comes with improvement, not a player playing worse than the year prior.
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In comment 14178426 Oscar said:
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If they shopped him around. Way too early to give up on the kid.
One thing that consistently blows my mind is how little patience the Knicks fan base has. Basically all this franchise knows is losing and garbage basketball. They have been a joke for two decades now and have not won a title in nearly 50 years. What’s the rush? Why is everyone trying to run a 20 year old first round pick out of town in November of his second season? If any team has time to let Frank figure it out it should be the Knicks.
Most successful 2nd year players are showing more than Frank at this point. Sad but true. 2017 NBA draft Frank ranks 47th in WS/48 and 51st in VORP. He's been awful.
Do you watch the games? The lack of patience shows your ignorance.
do you? please explain from you have seen that shows imlrovement or there is cause for hope of him improving?
he still is passive, he can not turn the corner on a pick and roll, he still cant shoot, even his defense has not been lock down...
he has not improved 1 bit on offense
No
Taking that into consideration it seems that the same people don't realize that human beings often don't progress along a linear curve. There usually isn't an exact moment when a player "turns the corner" and suddenly becomes better. I agree that a player shouldn't be kept based on blind faith, but an athlete's progression is much more complex than some here seem to make it out to be.
And yet we are talking theoreticals... could he improve? Is it possible? Take his age into account? Sure. But SO FAR he has not improved in any facet of his offensive game, an area in which he was already well below average last season. We can only go based on a few things... athletic tools (he's not a freak athlete), on court growth (what can you point to on the offensive end?) and production (he hasn't produced). So far it is what it is. Could that change? Sure. But so far, the eyes and numbers tell the story.
I think the French Connection ran an atleast an hour and a half.
i dont think that will help him, he is just a passive player, even wide open he hesitates...I dont know what would change that
Fizz seems to favor Mudiay and Frank isn’t Perry’s guy and I doubt he ever develops offensively
I'm not a big stats guy like you are Dan, I just watch the games and form my opinions based on what I see. Frank is struggling anyone can see it, but there are intangibles that don't always show up in stats and I'm not ready to completely write him off just yet.
One more point about Frank, as I mentioned early in the thread, the Knicks were much more competitive when they were creating offense off of defense and Frank had a lot to do with that.
I think the French Connection ran an atleast an hour and a half.
Where was this suggested? Please point out quotes where I, or anyone else closed the door on future improvement. He's been bad. There is no couching it. He's been a very, very poor offensive player even vs. other members of the 2017 class.