but I think he’s a fucking loser. I’d actually be on board with him not making it if he didn’t win a national title.
I don't love him at all. I appreciate what he did for the Cuse during his time there and afterwards, but that's it. I'm not a diehard fan by any means. I just think it's hilarious that people think he won't make the HoF.
He definitely will but at no time in his career would ever consider him dominant or close to the best player in the league. A streaky scorer who was like a black hole without the ball in his hands. And forget about defense.
The Naismith Basketball HOF in Mass is for all basketball. College, Olympics, NBA etc. People can make it no matter where they starred or contributed to the game.
It's not just an NBA HOF and people can make it on their whole body of work as well. Someone might not have had a HOF worthy pro career but combined with their college career it might all add up to be enough.
Basically the greatest "ME" player of all time. Only cared about getting his money and his points. Hall of fame what a joke. So is there a guy who played great D his whole career but was a zero offensively and is in the hall of fame? Why then does a guy who put up excellent numbers offensively but never played a lick of defense get in automatically because of his offensive numbers? The guy did nothing but make those around him worse. Never won a thing. He wouldn't be in if I had a vote.
Basically the greatest "ME" player of all time. Only cared about getting his money and his points. Hall of fame what a joke. So is there a guy who played great D his whole career but was a zero offensively and is in the hall of fame? Why then does a guy who put up excellent numbers offensively but never played a lick of defense get in automatically because of his offensive numbers? The guy did nothing but make those around him worse. Never won a thing. He wouldn't be in if I had a vote.
He also won in the Olympics and won a National title in college. Add that to his scoring numbers in the NBA and yes he is HOF worthy. I'm not a fan but I recongnize he should be in.
Oh and to answer your question, how about Dennis Rodman? Â
isn’t really anything unique and I would t consider it a resume booster. If he didn’t play a minute they still would have won. Like I said his college title gets him in but if he didn’t have it you can absolutely argue that he should t go (and I’d probably still argue against it). One of the most selfish and uninspiring players I’ve seen in modern sports. But hey, let’s reward him.
RE: Oh and to answer your question, how about Dennis Rodman? Â
Rodman was certainly not an offensive juggernaut. But his teams - Detroit & Chicago - had prolific offensive players. Thus, his role was to grab offensive rebounds and set screens. And he was great at both. So he is sort of an outlier...
RE: RE: Oh and to answer your question, how about Dennis Rodman? Â
Rodman was certainly not an offensive juggernaut. But his teams - Detroit & Chicago - had prolific offensive players. Thus, his role was to grab offensive rebounds and set screens. And he was great at both. So he is sort of an outlier...
I agree with that and I wasn't knocking him just answering the question raised.
" So is there a guy who played great D his whole career but was a zero offensively and is in the hall of fame?"
Absolutely, he is ranked 23 all time. And Anthony is ranked 19th in scoring all time and why I thought Rodman was a good answer as a comparison to the question Chris L raised.
Career scoring average under 10ppg. But one of the great defensive big men of all time. A lot of people think Ben Wallace will get in after few years. He was an elite defender and rebounder with no offensive game.
Basically the greatest "ME" player of all time. Only cared about getting his money and his points. Hall of fame what a joke. So is there a guy who played great D his whole career but was a zero offensively and is in the hall of fame? Why then does a guy who put up excellent numbers offensively but never played a lick of defense get in automatically because of his offensive numbers? The guy did nothing but make those around him worse. Never won a thing. He wouldn't be in if I had a vote.
He also won in the Olympics and won a National title in college. Add that to his scoring numbers in the NBA and yes he is HOF worthy. I'm not a fan but I recongnize he should be in.
Agreed. I'm not a fan either but based on his whole body of work he is HOF worthy. He should and will get in,IMO.
When the Knicks traded for him - and oh so many Knicks fans showed how stupid they were by thinking his acquisition was a good move - I was never more disgusted as a fan. He absolutely destroyed any interest I had in watching them play...
And I’d take every single guy mentioned playing D Â
You don't keep the 19th leading scorer in NBA history out of the HoF. Stop it.
Yes you do. So overrated. Garbage points. No defense
No big playoff wins Never made anyone around him better
And ending his career on a major downside. Doesn’t deserve it all all
Stats are overrated. Rings and wins aren’t
Whenever people talk about Vince Carter the last few years, all people talk about is how he is going to waltz right into the Hall.
But people think Melo won't?
Compare their resumes:
Carter: 22nd All-Time in scoring. 1 All-NBA 2nd Team, 1 All-NBA 3rd Team. 8x All Star, 1 Gold Medal, ROY, 2nd Team All-American
Carmelo: 19th All-Time in scoring. 2 All-NBA 2nd Team, 4 All-NBA 3rd Team, 10x All Star, Scoring Champion, 3 Gold Medals, 3x USAB Male Athlete of the Year, All-Rookie team, NCAA Champion, Most Outstanding Player in NCAA Tournament.
who didn't exert much effort on defense, and now he is embarrassing on defense and his O has struggled.
But I think the Knicks woes were not because of him. The Knicks stunk before him, they stunk after him.
Sure, Melo is a ball-stopper. But he didn't exactly have a quality facilitator when he was here. I can't imagine a star player having a worst set of point guards for the stretch Melo did while in NY:
Derrick Rose who was terrible here, Toney Douglas, Fat Baron Davis, 40 year-old Kidd, Fat Ray Felton, 36 year-old Prigioni, 30-something Calderon, rookie Iman Shumpert, Shane Larkin, Tim Hardaway Jr., rookie Jerian Grant, and two weeks of Jeremy Lin
I agree that Melo was overrated at his peak because he was all high-volume offense. I agree he was selfish. I agree that he has a deluded sense of his value, especially the last few years. But this isn't the MLB HOF. It's the basketball HOF... everyone gets in.
He was a great scorer, but when the ball came to him, team movement Â
slowed to a stand still. So, while he scored a lot of points, he didn't make his teams that much better offensively. And that's not to mention his defense. One of the worst mistakes the Knicks made was trading for Carmelo.
You don't keep the 19th leading scorer in NBA history out of the HoF. Stop it.
Yes you do. So overrated. Garbage points. No defense
No big playoff wins Never made anyone around him better
And ending his career on a major downside. Doesn’t deserve it all all
Stats are overrated. Rings and wins aren’t
Yeah yeah yeah.
Give us another one of your bogus gambling "locks".
And don't bite Manigault's name. Get a new handle. I'm friends with his nephew from Mt. Vernon and he finds you offensive.
There was an interesting case study arguing that he was one of the most valuable players of all time because he was more dominant in rebounding percentage than any player in any other stat. If you like data and like reading a different take, I recommend it.
Whenever people talk about Vince Carter the last few years, all people talk about is how he is going to waltz right into the Hall.
But people think Melo won't?
Compare their resumes:
Carter: 22nd All-Time in scoring. 1 All-NBA 2nd Team, 1 All-NBA 3rd Team. 8x All Star, 1 Gold Medal, ROY, 2nd Team All-American
Carmelo: 19th All-Time in scoring. 2 All-NBA 2nd Team, 4 All-NBA 3rd Team, 10x All Star, Scoring Champion, 3 Gold Medals, 3x USAB Male Athlete of the Year, All-Rookie team, NCAA Champion, Most Outstanding Player in NCAA Tournament.
+1 You made the point I was trying to make better than I did
HOF in Springfield is a HOF for, that is, all aspects of basketball, Melo is fairly a lock for admission, even if you hated his stint with the Knicks (which I did, but I have 'Cuse family too, so there's that).
You don't keep the 19th leading scorer in NBA history out of the HoF. Stop it.
Yes you do. So overrated. Garbage points. No defense
No big playoff wins Never made anyone around him better
And ending his career on a major downside. Doesn’t deserve it all all
Stats are overrated. Rings and wins aren’t
Yeah yeah yeah.
Give us another one of your bogus gambling "locks".
And don't bite Manigault's name. Get a new handle. I'm friends with his nephew from Mt. Vernon and he finds you offensive.
Fuck you douchebag. You think your a know it all
But your just a classless poster who thinks he’s nothing but correct and a wannabe athlete that never made it
Stay up in Albany with the rest of the idiots who pretend to run our government
You don't keep the 19th leading scorer in NBA history out of the HoF. Stop it.
Yes you do. So overrated. Garbage points. No defense
No big playoff wins Never made anyone around him better
And ending his career on a major downside. Doesn’t deserve it all all
Stats are overrated. Rings and wins aren’t
Yeah yeah yeah.
Give us another one of your bogus gambling "locks".
And don't bite Manigault's name. Get a new handle. I'm friends with his nephew from Mt. Vernon and he finds you offensive.
Fuck you douchebag. You think your a know it all
But your just a classless poster who thinks he’s nothing but correct and a wannabe athlete that never made it
Stay up in Albany with the rest of the idiots who pretend to run our government
isn't much different from my stealing Del Shofner's name. The real Del is still alive (he's 83) and I've always wondered if I would get a cease and desist letter or something at some point.
BTW, I could never persuade Matt in Syracuse that I wasn't the real Del Shofner. That was weird.
People forget how good melo was his first 12 years or so Â
You’re saying a lot of shit that simply isn’t true. Melo didn’t win big games or big playoff games or make players around him better? That’s just flat out false. Go look at his Denver career. His teams always made the playoffs in a loaded conference and he got them to a conference final once. So you’re wrong there.
RE: RE: People forget how good melo was his first 12 years or so Â
It’s only insane to completely dismiss the argument. Not sure what to tell you. Based on what it takes to make it to the HoF, he will definitely get in but in my opinion he never did anything worth a damn in the NBA. He’s a shitty teammate and played horrendous defense. He was never even the best scorer in the league.
He’s the quintessential stat compiler that should go to the Hall of Very Good.
because of the scoring numbers, but in terms of impact he's not deserving.
People always bring up Pierce/Carter/T-Mac, but those three were much better all-around players especially defensively. Melo was a terrible defender even during his prime whereas those other 3 could guard quality players. And as playmakers Melo does not compare with those 3.
His advanced stats are quite mediocre but his RAPM numbers are even worse and paint him as one of the worst defenders of the last 15 years and significantly overrated offensively.
on his team, being in the west, how close they were to beating the peak lakers (2 bad inbound passes where he was robbed of having a shot to win the game)-
how good he was year 1 in NY--- how much the NY experience hurt the perception of him because its NY and the team around him was the worst i have ever seen as time progressed.
and then he aged poorly since.
You also have to remember that the basketball HOF Â
was overrated for a long time, but at this point I think his career might actually be underrated in a lot of nba circles.
He was a good scorer in his day, and while ppg can be overrated, the ability to create a large volume of moderately efficient offense is still valuable.
Hes obviously not good now. And the fact that he hasn't been able to hit spot up jumpers at a good rate is surprising and has prevented him from aging gracefully into the final phase of his career.
I think in general hes become the poster boy for fans/media who have become smarter and are part of a warranted backlash against treating volume scorers as elite players. But I think in some cases it's gone too far, and his talent and performance in his prime is going overlooked.
The basketball hall of fame includes pro, college and international. If you take the whole package together, he's a lock. I don't love the guy as a player either, but he did what he did.
You don't keep the 19th leading scorer in NBA history out of the HoF. Stop it.
Melo has been terrible. The Rockets bigger problem was losing Ariz and Mbah a Moute for that perimeter defense.
I don't love him at all. I appreciate what he did for the Cuse during his time there and afterwards, but that's it. I'm not a diehard fan by any means. I just think it's hilarious that people think he won't make the HoF.
+1 Biggest mistake the Knicks ever made bringing in that team killer.
The Naismith Basketball HOF in Mass is for all basketball. College, Olympics, NBA etc. People can make it no matter where they starred or contributed to the game.
It's not just an NBA HOF and people can make it on their whole body of work as well. Someone might not have had a HOF worthy pro career but combined with their college career it might all add up to be enough.
He also won in the Olympics and won a National title in college. Add that to his scoring numbers in the NBA and yes he is HOF worthy. I'm not a fan but I recongnize he should be in.
Rodman was certainly not an offensive juggernaut. But his teams - Detroit & Chicago - had prolific offensive players. Thus, his role was to grab offensive rebounds and set screens. And he was great at both. So he is sort of an outlier...
Quote:
.
Rodman was certainly not an offensive juggernaut. But his teams - Detroit & Chicago - had prolific offensive players. Thus, his role was to grab offensive rebounds and set screens. And he was great at both. So he is sort of an outlier...
I agree with that and I wasn't knocking him just answering the question raised.
" So is there a guy who played great D his whole career but was a zero offensively and is in the hall of fame?"
He was a shoo-in.
He was a shoo-in.
Absolutely, he is ranked 23 all time. And Anthony is ranked 19th in scoring all time and why I thought Rodman was a good answer as a comparison to the question Chris L raised.
Quote:
Basically the greatest "ME" player of all time. Only cared about getting his money and his points. Hall of fame what a joke. So is there a guy who played great D his whole career but was a zero offensively and is in the hall of fame? Why then does a guy who put up excellent numbers offensively but never played a lick of defense get in automatically because of his offensive numbers? The guy did nothing but make those around him worse. Never won a thing. He wouldn't be in if I had a vote.
He also won in the Olympics and won a National title in college. Add that to his scoring numbers in the NBA and yes he is HOF worthy. I'm not a fan but I recongnize he should be in.
Agreed. I'm not a fan either but based on his whole body of work he is HOF worthy. He should and will get in,IMO.
When the Knicks traded for him - and oh so many Knicks fans showed how stupid they were by thinking his acquisition was a good move - I was never more disgusted as a fan. He absolutely destroyed any interest I had in watching them play...
Quote:
Maybe.
You don't keep the 19th leading scorer in NBA history out of the HoF. Stop it.
Yes you do. So overrated. Garbage points. No defense
No big playoff wins Never made anyone around him better
And ending his career on a major downside. Doesn’t deserve it all all
Stats are overrated. Rings and wins aren’t
But people think Melo won't?
Compare their resumes:
Carter: 22nd All-Time in scoring. 1 All-NBA 2nd Team, 1 All-NBA 3rd Team. 8x All Star, 1 Gold Medal, ROY, 2nd Team All-American
Carmelo: 19th All-Time in scoring. 2 All-NBA 2nd Team, 4 All-NBA 3rd Team, 10x All Star, Scoring Champion, 3 Gold Medals, 3x USAB Male Athlete of the Year, All-Rookie team, NCAA Champion, Most Outstanding Player in NCAA Tournament.
But I think the Knicks woes were not because of him. The Knicks stunk before him, they stunk after him.
Sure, Melo is a ball-stopper. But he didn't exactly have a quality facilitator when he was here. I can't imagine a star player having a worst set of point guards for the stretch Melo did while in NY:
Derrick Rose who was terrible here, Toney Douglas, Fat Baron Davis, 40 year-old Kidd, Fat Ray Felton, 36 year-old Prigioni, 30-something Calderon, rookie Iman Shumpert, Shane Larkin, Tim Hardaway Jr., rookie Jerian Grant, and two weeks of Jeremy Lin
I agree that Melo was overrated at his peak because he was all high-volume offense. I agree he was selfish. I agree that he has a deluded sense of his value, especially the last few years. But this isn't the MLB HOF. It's the basketball HOF... everyone gets in.
Quote:
In comment 14178983 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
Maybe.
You don't keep the 19th leading scorer in NBA history out of the HoF. Stop it.
Yes you do. So overrated. Garbage points. No defense
No big playoff wins Never made anyone around him better
And ending his career on a major downside. Doesn’t deserve it all all
Stats are overrated. Rings and wins aren’t
Yeah yeah yeah.
Give us another one of your bogus gambling "locks".
And don't bite Manigault's name. Get a new handle. I'm friends with his nephew from Mt. Vernon and he finds you offensive.
It's very analytical and deconstructs his rebounding dominance.
https://skepticalsports.com/the-case-for-dennis-rodman-guide/ - ( New Window )
But people think Melo won't?
Compare their resumes:
Carter: 22nd All-Time in scoring. 1 All-NBA 2nd Team, 1 All-NBA 3rd Team. 8x All Star, 1 Gold Medal, ROY, 2nd Team All-American
Carmelo: 19th All-Time in scoring. 2 All-NBA 2nd Team, 4 All-NBA 3rd Team, 10x All Star, Scoring Champion, 3 Gold Medals, 3x USAB Male Athlete of the Year, All-Rookie team, NCAA Champion, Most Outstanding Player in NCAA Tournament.
+1 You made the point I was trying to make better than I did
Quote:
In comment 14178988 B in ALB said:
Quote:
In comment 14178983 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
Maybe.
You don't keep the 19th leading scorer in NBA history out of the HoF. Stop it.
Yes you do. So overrated. Garbage points. No defense
No big playoff wins Never made anyone around him better
And ending his career on a major downside. Doesn’t deserve it all all
Stats are overrated. Rings and wins aren’t
Yeah yeah yeah.
Give us another one of your bogus gambling "locks".
And don't bite Manigault's name. Get a new handle. I'm friends with his nephew from Mt. Vernon and he finds you offensive.
Fuck you douchebag. You think your a know it all
But your just a classless poster who thinks he’s nothing but correct and a wannabe athlete that never made it
Stay up in Albany with the rest of the idiots who pretend to run our government
Quote:
In comment 14179190 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
In comment 14178988 B in ALB said:
Quote:
In comment 14178983 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
Maybe.
You don't keep the 19th leading scorer in NBA history out of the HoF. Stop it.
Yes you do. So overrated. Garbage points. No defense
No big playoff wins Never made anyone around him better
And ending his career on a major downside. Doesn’t deserve it all all
Stats are overrated. Rings and wins aren’t
Yeah yeah yeah.
Give us another one of your bogus gambling "locks".
And don't bite Manigault's name. Get a new handle. I'm friends with his nephew from Mt. Vernon and he finds you offensive.
Fuck you douchebag. You think your a know it all
But your just a classless poster who thinks he’s nothing but correct and a wannabe athlete that never made it
Stay up in Albany with the rest of the idiots who pretend to run our government
Whoa, whoa, whoa!
Hahaha. Big rant from the GOAT!
BTW, I could never persuade Matt in Syracuse that I wasn't the real Del Shofner. That was weird.
Some of you are too close to his overall game or career. Pull back a bit.
Some of you are too close to his overall game or career. Pull back a bit.
More like a better Adrian Dantley.
Quote:
The guy was basically Charles Barkley with less rebounding but more 3pt shooting. And then his rebounding improved.
Some of you are too close to his overall game or career. Pull back a bit.
More like a better Adrian Dantley.
True i like that comparison much more than Barkley.
Guys, we all know he’s a slug. You’re cutting him after 10 games. No need to explain.
That being said, I always said I never thought of him as a superstar. He was an All-Star through and through.
It’s only insane to completely dismiss the argument. Not sure what to tell you. Based on what it takes to make it to the HoF, he will definitely get in but in my opinion he never did anything worth a damn in the NBA. He’s a shitty teammate and played horrendous defense. He was never even the best scorer in the league.
He’s the quintessential stat compiler that should go to the Hall of Very Good.
People always bring up Pierce/Carter/T-Mac, but those three were much better all-around players especially defensively. Melo was a terrible defender even during his prime whereas those other 3 could guard quality players. And as playmakers Melo does not compare with those 3.
His advanced stats are quite mediocre but his RAPM numbers are even worse and paint him as one of the worst defenders of the last 15 years and significantly overrated offensively.
how good he was year 1 in NY--- how much the NY experience hurt the perception of him because its NY and the team around him was the worst i have ever seen as time progressed.
and then he aged poorly since.
He was a good scorer in his day, and while ppg can be overrated, the ability to create a large volume of moderately efficient offense is still valuable.
Hes obviously not good now. And the fact that he hasn't been able to hit spot up jumpers at a good rate is surprising and has prevented him from aging gracefully into the final phase of his career.
I think in general hes become the poster boy for fans/media who have become smarter and are part of a warranted backlash against treating volume scorers as elite players. But I think in some cases it's gone too far, and his talent and performance in his prime is going overlooked.
This.
And that he has been a "cancer", eventually... on every team he has been on...