I began thinking about it after this tweet, not sure what precipitated it, but I think I would.
Noah is clearly a top of the rotation starter with tremendous stuff and he's the kind of player you normally build around, not trade away, so I wouldn't shop him per se.
But I believe in the philosophy no one is untouchable. No one. So, while I would trade him I'd need to be blown away.
That said, I kind of feel like Syndergaard has "plateaued" and maybe that's just my bias because after his rookie year I had such high hopes, and I feel like he's still a TOR pitcher and maybe top 20 or whatever # you want to apply to him starter in baseball, I don't think he's improved the way I thought he would.
This probably goes nowhere, but if there is a team who'd match up with what it would take to deal Syndergaard, the Padres are one of those teams.
Is Mackenzie Gore and Mejia for Syndergaard (and throw in Jay Bruce) interesting and fair?
Michael Mayer
& #8207; @mikemayerMMO
1m1 minute ago
The Padres remain interested in acquiring Noah Syndergaard according to @Ken_Rosenthal.
The Padres have arguably the best farm system in baseball.
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Yanks did it with Chapman and Miller. Add some of your home grown taket like your SS and outfielders and you can compete. You still have DeGrom.
You also need to sign Realmuto this year.
Yanks did it with Chapman and Miller. Add some of your home grown taket like your SS and outfielders and you can compete. You still have DeGrom.
You also need to sign Realmuto this year.
Realmuto is a Marlin, he's not a free agent, you can't just sign him, and the Marlins said they don't want to trade in the division.
He's not going to be a Met and I don't think he should be either given his projected cost and given the lack of league wide depth at catcher.
Yanks did it with Chapman and Miller. Add some of your home grown taket like your SS and outfielders and you can compete. You still have DeGrom.
You also need to sign Realmuto this year.
I disagree... They have one of the top rotations in the game and could quickly be a playoff team again if they bring in a bat and fix the bullpen.
The way I see it for the Mets (and I'm not a Mets fan, just for transparency), is that the Braves are set up to be good for a long, long time. The Mets should really do what they can to load the war chest rather than go on tilt now to be a WC contender. Selling a guy like Syndergaard and replacing him with a serviceable FA starter who will only require a 1-2 year commitment could be a nice way to load up without being a complete joke for the next couple of years.
I think the modern day baseball fanbase is sophisticated enough that they'll actually buy in to a phase of farm-building and still show up in similar numbers.
I read about how great the Nationals were going to be and for how long and now it's all falling apart in Washington.
I'd build the Mets with the Mets in mind.
Right now they have two TOR starters with JDG and Syndergaard, Wheeler was great last year after a slow start, and could very well be a 3rd if he shows last year wasn't a fluke.
All are under 31 years old and JDG and Syndergaard cost controlled for 2 and 3 more years respectively. Wheeler a FA after the season.
The Mets also have some nice lineup pieces with Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, and McNeil, not to mention Alonso on the cusp and Gimenez within striking distance of the majors.
The Mets are not as far away as it may seem.
They need a bullpen, another starter, and solid D and can compete sooner rather than later.
That said, trading Syndergaard could be more beneficial in the long-run than keeping him so if I'm blown away I'd consider it.
But it would have absolutely ZERO to do with the Braves.
that sounds a bit more like a deGrom package than Thor. I doubt SD is willing to move Tatis.
But there's so much quality in that SD top 30 that even something like Gore + Baez + Esteury Ruiz + Jeisson Rosario would be something to consider.
Or keep Syndergaard and spend some money while this alleged window is open.
I read about how great the Nationals were going to be and for how long and now it's all falling apart in Washington.
I'd build the Mets with the Mets in mind.
Right now they have two TOR starters with JDG and Syndergaard, Wheeler was great last year after a slow start, and could very well be a 3rd if he shows last year wasn't a fluke.
All are under 31 years old and JDG and Syndergaard cost controlled for 2 and 3 more years respectively. Wheeler a FA after the season.
The Mets also have some nice lineup pieces with Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, and McNeil, not to mention Alonso on the cusp and Gimenez within striking distance of the majors.
The Mets are not as far away as it may seem.
They need a bullpen, another starter, and solid D and can compete sooner rather than later.
That said, trading Syndergaard could be more beneficial in the long-run than keeping him so if I'm blown away I'd consider it.
But it would have absolutely ZERO to do with the Braves.
sure, shouldn't be all about the Braves. That's fair. I probably overstated that.
But even casting the Braves aside as you insist, the confluence of things - knowing (believing) what we know/believe about ownership's willingness to take the payroll much higher than it is currently, the 2 years of additional commitments to Bruce/Cespedes, and the-coinciding 2-3 years of control on deGrom and Syndergaard....
I think signing deGrom to 5-6 year deal now and cashing in on Syndergaard for some really high-end prospects could provide the best set of outcomes for the next 5 years.
The Mets need to fix the rest of the team around them. If that's too heard to do quickly then they should trade both of them and rebuild, but there's no sense trading 1 and not the other unless there's a ridiculous opportunity to get a similar top talent (like Bryant).
If Noah and Degrom were free agents, whats your best guess on the contract they get?
If Noah and Degrom were free agents, whats your best guess on the contract they get?
4 years ago Scherzer got 7 years 210m at age 30. Hard to not envision both being able to make a claim on more.
Just depends on the makeup of your team.
The Mets, as you and I agree (Eric), can compete much sooner and less painfully than some people realize.
But that approach, IMO, is not a long-term approach since by three years all of JDG, Syndergaard, and Wheeler would need to be re-signed, so we're nearing the end of the short-lived road for those three.
but there are other options and trading one of them to improve other areas and bring in new talent doesn't mean blowing it up to me depending on the return and how close to the majors those players are.
Maybe in my example Mackenzie Gore winds up better than Syndergaard and he's just 20 years old.
I've read him compared to Kershaw or Bumgarner, though he pitched well in 2018 he was not really dominant so maybe that shakes him loose in a Syndergaard trade (and even allows the Mets like I proposed to include Jay Bruce and get Mejia back as well).
I don't know the prospects like the rest of you, but I think there's a way to trade Syndergaard and not set the club back a ton depending who they get back.
because I respect your opinion and depth of knowledge - what does it take from SD to get you OK trading Syndergaard?
I think that's the opinion of most, "depends on the price" but SD is one of the teams that can probably put an attractive offer together.
If it goes just as bad, then yes you trade him after the season.
Right now doesn’t appear to be the time. The organization appears to be transitioning in some type of direction.
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due respect to people having the right to their own opinion but the correct answer "depends on the price" and that's true of 99.9% of trades. Maybe you don't trade Jeter or Piazza but yeah right price everyone on your roster should be up for grabs.
because I respect your opinion and depth of knowledge - what does it take from SD to get you OK trading Syndergaard?
Thanks for the compliment. Given his years of control and cost Tatis Jr. has to be in the deal or it's a non-starter. I dig their system but quantity only gets you so far. He has to be involved. After that I have to believe they would want Mejia or Hedges. Hedges can't hit so I'd much prefer Mejia, by a long shot. Gore is a sexy arm, he'd easily be the Mets #1 P prospect. I know Shecky really like Naylor, if he can play passable OF I'm sure he'd be on their ask list. .830 OPS last year in AA, .383 OBP, Paddack was a monster this year 90 innings 120 k's.... 8 walks and the 2 Cuban P are both top 100 prospects in the game Morejon and Baez that doesn't even include lottery ticket Anderson Espinoza. If the Padres want to make you a Godfather offer you listen.
I don't consider myself an expert on prospects by any means, all I will say is that anecdotally the gold standard of recent top pitcher trades has been the Chris Sale trade and upon further scrutiny it didn't seem to work out all that great.
Yoan Moncada has basically been the Amed Rosario of 2B.
Kopech was exciting until he got hurt, as most pitchers seem to do.
they got an OF prospect that's still in AA.
and a RP who is still in A and didn't pitch in 2018 at all.
So if I'm trading a prime cy young candidate signed reasonably there are a very select few number of elite assets I'd be willing to do it for.
An Update to Prospect Valuation - ( New Window )
of course this is hind sight, at the time it was thought to be at worst fair, at best even slightly in their favor.
But Moncada has not developed, and Kopech - while promising- as mentioned is out for a long time with TJS and has an uncertain future.
Difference between Moncada and Rosario is Roasrio didn't cost Sale.
I think at the time it happened though the Santana trade looked fair too, but we know how that turned out for the Twins.
Of course not but when you trade Sale, with cost controlled years, your return better be stars.
So even if Moncada pans out, and produces, without anything from Kopech the white sox still lose that trade unless Moncada becomes a super star and even then it's debatable.
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not ready to give up on Moncada. 2.0 fWAR age 23 season, 17 homers, 12 steals. Freak athlete. I think we'd all sign for that from Rosario this upcoming season with the knowledge development isn't linear.
Of course not but when you trade Sale, with cost controlled years, your return better be stars.
So even if Moncada pans out, and produces, without anything from Kopech the white sox still lose that trade unless Moncada becomes a super star and even then it's debatable.
Oh yeah. I wasn't disputing you PJ. I just meant as a side note I think Moncada is still going to be a good player. Superstar? We shall see but I see him mentioned like a disaster (not on here) and he's slowly developing. I don't even think "star" is out of the question honestly. If he put up a 3-4 fWAR season this year I wouldn't have my mind blown. Superstar? Probably not.
I can see a scenario where he is traded just because BVW may want to make a splash and start to build "his team" and Syndergaard is a TOR pitcher, who has 3 years of team control, in a limited FA market.
but if that happens the return would (should) be overwhelming.
Sort of lines up similar to Sale in terms of age, control etc. only the Mets have a better team than the White Sox did around Sale so the Mets have a harder sale (no pun intended) to their fan base.
NOw, if they have no interest in the big time bats and they are going to go dumpster diving for bats, then they should sell off everyone at some pt this season.
Further, If i was really going to blow the Mets up I would trade deGrom who will be 32 when he is a free agent and who's value is the highest it will ever be right now, not the 25 year old you can build around for another decade or so coming off a nagging injury issue year or two.
A healthy Syndergaard in 2016 was arguably the best pitcher in baseball not named Kershaw, so even if he is never better than that, that's still fucking very good.
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Why can't we have owners like this?
Barring injury he will retain much of his value. Unlike last season I don't see the Marlins selling off pieces just to do so. Soroka, Riley and an unknown 3rd piece is already a big time offer. I'm surprised they passed but who knows what they are looking for
Don’t trade Thor, SIGN him before it’s too late. Sign him NOW.
Padres would have to give me Tatia, then my choice of another prospect in their top 4. Then I’d want my choice of their second and third tier guys. I’d ask for like 8 guys and tell them to go fuck themselves when they laugh.
Let them ask for Wheeler and we can talk.
I’d focus on their third tier. That’s the team you trade a Flores or TDa to and pick up two third tier guys. And in a couple of years laugh...
NOw, if they have no interest in the big time bats and they are going to go dumpster diving for bats, then they should sell off everyone at some pt this season.
No. I much prefer a homegrown approach rather than spending huge on big contracts. I don't think either Harper or Machado would be good fits at all. They are already probably not going to do what it takes financially to lock up deGrom, Wheeler, AND Syndergaard, so inking one of those guys to a mega-deal would preclude retaining some of the homegrown talent down the line.
These are the Wilpons we are talking about, and a mega deal is going to hamstring this team's ability to make other moves. I believe Alonso is going to be a star, I really do. I think he's going to be our Goldshmidt. That's your big bat addition. I do think the Mets need to have him as their opening day starter at 1B. He's more than earned the promotion.
Realistic additions I would be ok with would be Pollock, Ramos or Grandal, or perhaps Donaldson. They have enough on the way to compete, and they need to keep this pitching together.
That's something they would figure out when the time came. He's at least 1/2 a year away. You'd have a much better idea of Rosario, McNeil and Gimenez at that point.
Don’t trade Thor, SIGN him before it’s too late. Sign him NOW.
Padres would have to give me Tatia, then my choice of another prospect in their top 4. Then I’d want my choice of their second and third tier guys. I’d ask for like 8 guys and tell them to go fuck themselves when they laugh.
Let them ask for Wheeler and we can talk.
I’d focus on their third tier. That’s the team you trade a Flores or TDa to and pick up two third tier guys. And in a couple of years laugh...
I'd approach Wheeler about an extension, see what numbers he thinks he's going to get and if it were crazy I'd absolutely broach that idea to SD. If he's not being extended 2019 value or not you have to consider all options.
Almost every team in baseball should be pursuing either or both of Harper and Machado.
Players like them only hit free agency a few times a decade, at most, so they should be treated differently IMO.
And with Machado you don't even need to give up a draft pick. He should be as big a no-brainer FA pursuit as I can remember.
But what I said is it's a no-brainer to pursue him.
It's not often you can get a gold glove infielder and elite middle of the order bat for "just money".
You don't get these opportunities often, so it should be pursued IMO.
Obviously there are other paths to contention.
Across town you have Steinbrenner and Cashman saying that Machado has a lot of explaining to do about his recent comments on not being a "hustle" type of ballplayer, and rightly so, and the Mets should just blindly throw money at the guy?
I know everyone wants a huge splash but I really believe the Mets can have a great offseason without signing either.