I began thinking about it after this tweet, not sure what precipitated it, but I think I would.
Noah is clearly a top of the rotation starter with tremendous stuff and he's the kind of player you normally build around, not trade away, so I wouldn't shop him per se.
But I believe in the philosophy no one is untouchable. No one. So, while I would trade him I'd need to be blown away.
That said, I kind of feel like Syndergaard has "plateaued" and maybe that's just my bias because after his rookie year I had such high hopes, and I feel like he's still a TOR pitcher and maybe top 20 or whatever # you want to apply to him starter in baseball, I don't think he's improved the way I thought he would.
This probably goes nowhere, but if there is a team who'd match up with what it would take to deal Syndergaard, the Padres are one of those teams.
Is Mackenzie Gore and Mejia for Syndergaard (and throw in Jay Bruce) interesting and fair?
Michael Mayer
& #8207; @mikemayerMMO
1m1 minute ago
The Padres remain interested in acquiring Noah Syndergaard according to @Ken_Rosenthal.
The Padres have arguably the best farm system in baseball.
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1. The Mets have to sign Machado or "bust"
2. They should blindly throw money at anyone
so, now that those two straw men are gone we can have a discussion.
Mets notes:
--Keep an eye on the trade market for catchers. Get the sense that's a possibility. Not Realmuto though. He's too costly.
--Obviously then, they're in on catchers
--d'Arnaud is non tender candidate
--Upgrading CF is on to-do list
--Van Wagenen open to creative ideas
Well he's a Yankees fan, so I automatically discounted his opinion.
Sorry if I was short. I think the Mets have a lot of options this off-season, and I'm eager to see how it unfolds.
Yeah they haven't shit on Nimmo in CF but they have made clear they don't view him as one (nor should they). I'm tired of seeing people suggest Pillar. No thank you.
- I'd make a call on Buxton, I know he's been putrid
Also, are there any under the radar trade targets/partners that BVW might be able to get creative with?
C-JT Realmuto
3B/SS-Fernando Tatis Jr.
LHP-Matt Strahm
Marlins Get:
LHP-Mackenzie Gore
SS-Ronny Mauricio
C-Francisco Mejia
Padres get:
RHP-Noah Syndergaard
SS-Andres Gimenez
Also, are there any under the radar trade targets/partners that BVW might be able to get creative with?
Horrendous offensive player, good defensive player but already 32. People can point to Sandy Leon all they want but the Sox led baseball in runs scored. He's a good backup. A bad starter. I really think Cervelli is the guy to go after.
The guy whos getting extended this offseason is deGrom. Its 100% happening and with two years of control + his age it makes perfect sense for both sides.
The guy whos getting extended this offseason is deGrom. Its 100% happening and with two years of control + his age it makes perfect sense for both sides.
It only makes sense for the Mets if it's at a discount. Otherwise, the motivation 2 years early is just to keep him from testing free agency and for a guy whose already had 1 TJS and nerve replacement surgery is it worth the risk?
With the Mets finishing the second half on a strong note and with so many young players on the verge of forming a nice young core, we have a lot to look forward to.
Just need to supplement the roster with a few solid pieces.
Im calling a Rosario breakout next year. I also think Matz stabilizes more. He might only be a 4th starter going forward but I have this feeling hes going to be more consistent in 2019. Expecting big seasons from Conforto, Nimmo, and McNeil. Excited to add Alonso and Gimenez eventually.
Did anyone see how he did overall?
Quote:
Is that he likely feels hes finally figured it out and knows with a solid year in 2019, hes due for a massive pay day. I dont see him extending on a team friendly deal. So what do the Mets do? Give him 100 million plus deal now? I just dont think either side comes to a realistic solution. And that doesnt necessarily mean we lose him. I think theres a good chance we can re-sign him in a year(granted hell be expensive) but Wheeler has been vocal about wanting to remain a Met before. Hell just get market value and well have to pay it.
The guy whos getting extended this offseason is deGrom. Its 100% happening and with two years of control + his age it makes perfect sense for both sides.
It only makes sense for the Mets if it's at a discount. Otherwise, the motivation 2 years early is just to keep him from testing free agency and for a guy whose already had 1 TJS and nerve replacement surgery is it worth the risk?
The deGrom deal will be team friendly in a sense. The best pitcher in baseball in his prime would get a preposterous mega deal if he were a free agent today. The length and amount will be less due to the years of control and his age being factored. Fans will still think its massive but it will team friendly regardless in relation to the market regardless.
Did anyone see how he did overall?
He did really well.
Im interested to see if Lindsays new swing he brought to the fall league translates next year. Seems to have added more pop in a SSS.
Tim Britton
Verified account @TimBritton
Asked if the Mets have the financial wherewithal to add a $300M player, Wilpon: Brodie knows what the parameters of what the payroll is and what were planning to do and hes totally comfortable with that. Theres room to do things. Hes leaving no stone unturned.
4:04 PM - 16 Nov 2018
Also thought the Wilpons dont give a number
Lol
Really, the Red Sox? The team that had about a $250 million payroll, exceeding the luxury tax threshold? The Coupons aren't ever going to spend like the Red Sox. So in other words, we have to acknowledge that huge contracts are going to mean bargain basement shopping later when the inevitable roster holes pop up.
We also did the free agent splash thing with Cespedes and Bruce. In Mets' history, MOST of the time the big-contract free agents we've had have turned into albatrosses.
I would like to see some deals get done for bullpen, especially Andrew Miller, and for Grandal or Ramos. I'd be good with a CF as well but we'll see.
The one guy I want back but will never happen is Murph.
Further, If i was really going to blow the Mets up I would trade deGrom who will be 32 when he is a free agent and who's value is the highest it will ever be right now, not the 25 year old you can build around for another decade or so coming off a nagging injury issue year or two.
A healthy Syndergaard in 2016 was arguably the best pitcher in baseball not named Kershaw, so even if he is never better than that, that's still fucking very good. Link - ( New Window )
I would never trade deGrom. That guy has the heart of a lion and is a champion. I want that guy to retire in a Mets' uni. Yes, that means the Mets will eventually be holding him when his value drops off a cliff, and I don't care. I think you have to treat some players differently. He's to be a franchise icon.
But the Yankees have only won one WS in the last 18 years by loading up with hitters and bullpen at the expense of starting pitching. Guys like Thor win championships, so if your goal is to win a championship, you dont trade a guy like Thor who is only 26.
But trading Thor and then signing an Evoldi is the way you outsmart yourself and mire the team in mediocrity
Only way Mets make the playoffs this year is with the big Three at the top of the rotation
That entire hypothetical is actually helpful because it's basically "how do you create the best team possible, forgetting arbitrary resource restrictions". If the yankees had the Mets roster they'd be the heavy favorite for Machado, probably Kimbrel + Miller too, and likely in on multiple others as well. They might not get all of those guys but they would get most.
None of us expect the mets to spend like the Yankees overall bc we have had reality beaten into us, but there's no reason they shouldn't be able to go after the same players and just end up with less of them. Restricting their thinking to only signing cheaper flawed players is how we ended up with Cuddyer, Bay, Swarzak, etc.
Link - ( New Window )
I'd love for this to be a legit debate, but seems like Law on an island right now. Worst case Alsono seems like a DH, worst case Dom seems like a bust.
So I can dismiss most of the stuff he says going forward. Thanks.
The key to me is Met ownership commitment. the Mets have a core that can contend but unless they add:
1. TWO, not one, TWO legit back of the bullpen pieces
2. Shore up the D where they can (1B, C, CF)
3. Starting pitching depth, not dumpster dives like Vargas, but a legit plus addition to the rotation
If the Mets are not prepared to do that IMO it means they are going to half-ass it again and one injury, or one significant under-performer will sink the season, there is a small margin for error.
And if it's the latter (half-assed approach to build around JDG, Thor, Wheeler, etc.) then I think you can trade Syndergaard (for a massive return) and your half-assed approach will have some direction.
The key to me is Met ownership commitment. the Mets have a core that can contend but unless they add:
1. TWO, not one, TWO legit back of the bullpen pieces
2. Shore up the D where they can (1B, C, CF)
3. Starting pitching depth, not dumpster dives like Vargas, but a legit plus addition to the rotation
If the Mets are not prepared to do that IMO it means they are going to half-ass it again and one injury, or one significant under-performer will sink the season, there is a small margin for error.
And if it's the latter (half-assed approach to build around JDG, Thor, Wheeler, etc.) then I think you can trade Syndergaard (for a massive return) and your half-assed approach will have some direction.
Padres have said they will not discuss Tatis in any trade for a pitcher so I think it's time we give up on that dream. I'm anto-trading Thor unless we were getting back Tatis or Jimenez (White Sox) as part of the deals.
Quote:
Syndergaard as I've said all along, but if you could get Tatis and Gore (for example) I don't see why you say no.
The key to me is Met ownership commitment. the Mets have a core that can contend but unless they add:
1. TWO, not one, TWO legit back of the bullpen pieces
2. Shore up the D where they can (1B, C, CF)
3. Starting pitching depth, not dumpster dives like Vargas, but a legit plus addition to the rotation
If the Mets are not prepared to do that IMO it means they are going to half-ass it again and one injury, or one significant under-performer will sink the season, there is a small margin for error.
And if it's the latter (half-assed approach to build around JDG, Thor, Wheeler, etc.) then I think you can trade Syndergaard (for a massive return) and your half-assed approach will have some direction.
Padres have said they will not discuss Tatis in any trade for a pitcher so I think it's time we give up on that dream. I'm anto-trading Thor unless we were getting back Tatis or Jimenez (White Sox) as part of the deals.
Everyone says that until they trade the player. but if not the Padres and Tatis/Gore) then as you say maybe CHI, heck maybe the Blue Jays want him back Vlad, LOL.
And to clarify I'm not shopping Thor. I don't want to trade him, but moving forward I'd like to see a plan and as Theo says, no one is untouchable. If some team reaches that exorbitant price then I'd trade him.
And man does he sound like a broken record with the same old "aggressive" bullshit. Also pretty frustrating to hear him say the focus is on trades and not free agency. How about him saying our focus in our acquiring talent without having to give it up and we will do that by investing in free agency?? Not to mention your new GM's experience/ expertise is in free agency and negotiating deals. Why not focus on that??
And man does he sound like a broken record with the same old "aggressive" bullshit. Also pretty frustrating to hear him say the focus is on trades and not free agency. How about him saying our focus in our acquiring talent without having to give it up and we will do that by investing in free agency?? Not to mention your new GM's experience/ expertise is in free agency and negotiating deals. Why not focus on that??
Every single year we hear how aggressive they plan to be. 100% not a knock on Shecky but even he said something like that last year, Martino did too. I think they internally spew this line. Martino is a mouthpiece at this point.
If the 2 leaders are within 5% of each other, or the leader has less than 30% there will be a run-off between the top 2. If a run-off results in a tie the tiebreaker will be vote total in the previous poll, we will continue to "go back" in the polls until there is a clear leader.
*Jeff McNeil is ineligible
*Chris Flexen is ineligible
*Drew Smith is ineligible
*Tyler Bashlor is ineligible
1) Andres Gimenez (SS) AA 19/37 votes- 51%
2) Peter Alonso (1B) AAA 24/36 votes- 67%
3) Jarred Kelenic (CF) Kingsport 31/36-86%
4) Ronny Mauricio (SS) Kingsport 12/33-36%
5) Justin Dunn (RHP) AA 10/37-27%, Run-off with Mark Vientos 17/30-57%
6) Mark Vientos (3b) Kingsport 16/31-52%
7) David Peterson (LHP) A+ 21/31- 68%
8) Franklyn Kilome (RHP) AA 20/33-61%
9) Thomas Szapucki (LHP) A 18/32-56%
10) Shervyen Newton (SS) Kingsport 12/30-40%, Run-off with Anthony Kay 17/33-52%
11) Anthony Kay (LHP) AA 18/26-69%
12) Simeon Woods-Richardson (RHP) Kingsport 12/30-40%
13) Luis Santana (2B) 15/26-58%
14) Will Toffey (3B) 10/29-34%, run-off with Cecchini 15/27-56%
15) Gavin Cecchini (2b) 14/26-46%
16) Francisco Alvarez (C) 9/26-35%
17) Dez Lindsay (OF) 7/18-39%
18) Tony Dibrell (RHP) 9/23-39%
19) Jordan Humphreys (RHP) 7/21-33%, Run-off with Nido 18/24-75%
20) Ross Adolph (OF) 6/25-24%, run-off with Nido 18/25-72%
21) Adam Hill (RHP) 4/26-15%, Run-off with Nido/Crismatt 11/26-58%
22) Junior Santos (RHP) 6/28-21%, Run-off with Nido 11/20-55%
23) Tomas Nido (C) 10/23-43%
24) Luis Guillorme (SS) 9/24-38%
25) Adrian Hernandez 6/26-23%, run-off with Wahl/Cortes 8/15-53%
26) Carlos Cortes (2b) 8/21-38%
27) Steven Villines (RHP) 4/16 25%, Run-off with Thompson/Wahl 9/23-39%
28) David Thompson (3b) 8/23-35%
29) Ali Sanchez (C) 9/17-53%
30) Bobby Wahl (RHP) 11/25-44%
31) Eric Hanhold (RHP) 7/21-33%, run-off 7/20-35%
32) Luis Carpio (IF) 4/18-22%, runoff with Uriarte 9/14-64%
Paxton hasn't shown an ability to stay healthy, and Sheffield was the #1 guy in NYY system, so it wasn't that lopsided of a deal.
NYY have a deep farm, they can "afford" it if Sheffield hits it big later on..
I'm a proponent that the Mets need a starter, but they need one of the free agent starters. IOW don't trade top prospects for a pitcher like Paxton.
and Paxton is a risk, he's 30 years old and pitched over 150 innings once in his career, same number of times Steven Matz has and he's the portrait of injury prone.
In Mets terms that costs Gimenez or Alonso and a couple other players for ~150 innings. Not worth it IMO.
It probably wont be a long and healthy career, but his peak looks like it will rival anyone.
Hopefully there are as many good players available as last year and BVW can close with a little more creativity - and obviously make good evaluations on whoever he spends his resources on. While Paxton didn't make sense for the Mets, Mallex Smith or Haniger in the OF wouldn't be too shabby.
Thor for Senzel and Iglesias and Thor for Urias, 2 "high end P prospects" and Hedges.. so a rebuild?