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| Ross Tucker & #8207; Verified account @RossTuckerNFL Following Following @RossTuckerNFL More Last night perfectly encapsulated Aaron Rodgers career: Makes the spectacular look routine but too often doesn't make the routine play. |
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| Ross Tucker & #8207; Verified account @RossTuckerNFL Following Following @RossTuckerNFL More Holding onto the ball and taking sacks rather than throwing the check down or throwing it away will get you beat. It's also why Brady's better & a big reason he's won more. Makes routine play more consistently than anybody EVER. |
No one said McCarthy is a better HC than Bill. All I am saying is McCarthy is a very good offensive mind.
That is debatable. People who know a lot more about offenses than me find his offensive schemes simplistic and predictable. He's better than McAdoo, but he's no Sean Payton or McVay.
Exactly, especially with only one TO left. A terrible decision by a mediocre HC.
Its a package deal, IMO. BB excels on defense but he's so fucking good at strategizing and exposing a weakness that it benefits everyone. Its infectious. You hear momentum wins games in sports, well, I fell like BB always has momentum regardless of the phase of the game (offense, defense or ST). He masterfully delegates responsibilities and allows his coordinators to focus solely on the 1 portion of the gameplan they are trying to exploit.
Coaching matter, its matters a lot. Ask Tom Brady.
No one said McCarthy is a better HC than Bill. All I am saying is McCarthy is a very good offensive mind.
He's not though. His offense has barely changed in 15 years. It's a pretty basic WCO with some deep shots thrown in. The last couple of years, he's been stubbornly running that offense with inexperienced or fading WRs that he's asking to win one on one. Ask yourself how much the game has changed in just the last 5 years. Like it or not, it's sandlot football. Guys are running free, coaches are scheming guys open. He's not changing while the rest of the league has or is at least starting to (including Shurmur). You don't need to watch the All 22 to see it. Turn on the Chiefs/Rams game on Monday Night and you'll see it immediately. It looks like they're playing a different sport.
Speaking of the Chiefs and look at Andy Reid. Same coaching tree and foundation, yet their offenses are lightyears apart. Reid's current offenses barely resemble the offense he was running in Philly with McNabb. Why has he tweaked his offense while McCarthy hasn't? Why has every offensive disciple of McCarthy flamed out once they left Rodgers orbit? They're playing in what is fastly becoming a dinosaur offense.
What does Rodgers do that's so much better than Brees? INT totals are way better for Rodgers, but that fits with the notion that he holds the ball and takes a sack vs. letting it fly.
I haven't thought much about it, but I'm trying to figure out exactly what it would be that Rodgers does that's so much better than Brees. Having a hard time with it, honestly.
My point is that it only works because of Rodgers ability to improvise. What happened to that offense when Rodgers went down last year? How have the McAdoo and Philbin offenses looked without Rodgers?
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And if we're talking about systems and offensive minds - go back and watch what the Packers looked like without Aaron Rodgers. When they were playing with guys like Scott Tolzein or Brett Hundley, how'd they fare?
Conversely, how have the Patriots fared when Brady has been out? They won 11 games with Matt Cassell. They won 3 of 4 with Jacoby Brissett.
Belichick is a far better coach than Mike McCarthy. Not even close.
Not being a dick or a contrarian here, serious question.
Do you know how much influence Belichick, a defensive-minded coach, has on the offense and play calling?
And some other ground that has been covered, but sometimes ignored, the Matt Cassell 11 wins, was a documented historical easiest schedule in modern NFL history, and they missed the playoffs. Not to mention it was a 5 win dropoff from the prior season.
Second, when Brady was suspended they won the first two games with Garoppolo, not Brissett (though Jimmy G was injured late in the second game once the score was no longer in doubt).
The third game they shut out the Texans. Brisset was 11 for 19 for 103 yards - real QB whisperer stuff there from Belichick. He did have a rushing TD.
And in the 4th and final game sans Brady they were shutout 16 - 0 by the Bills. Brissett was 17 of 27 for 205 yard and no TD's.
Not sure I'd use that as examples Belichick can win anywhere with anyone at QB.
But I'd seriously be interesting in knowing how much input and influence Belichick does in fact have on the offense, instead of people just making assumptions (unless they do know the truth).
Belichick has control over virtually everything that goes on there - I think it's fair to assume that he's got a hand in the offense. He's hiring the guys who are coordinating it and I'm fairly certain he's not hands-off in any aspect of that football team.
The Garoppolo/Brissett stuff I obviously mixed up - that wasn't really the point. That he's been able to win games without Brady is. We can splice it and talk about schedules or nitpick every detail, but the Packers have looked far worse sans Rodgers than NE ever has without Brady.
You're focusing on the QB's and the QB numbers - it's not about being a QB whisperer. You're missing the point. Belichick is simply fielding better teams that are better-coached than the Packers are. When you remove Rodgers and Brady from their respective situations, you uncover what they actually have around them. It seems far more possible to win with "meh" QB play in NE than it is in GB.
Peyton lost what, twice in Foxboro, in horrible weather against Belichick's defenses.
Rodgers won his Sb in a dome.
Peyton won one of his in the only rain Super Bowl.
Along the way to that game, they knocked us off in GB when Rodgers threw for 362 yards and 4 td's and then knocked the Cowboys off the following week when he threw for 355 yards and 2 td's. But don't mention any of that.
Brees has also had the best OL of every QB mentioned in this thread. His OL has been fantastic in New Orleans and much better than what Brady/Peyton/Rodgers have had.
What does Rodgers do that's so much better than Brees? INT totals are way better for Rodgers, but that fits with the notion that he holds the ball and takes a sack vs. letting it fly.
I haven't thought much about it, but I'm trying to figure out exactly what it would be that Rodgers does that's so much better than Brees. Having a hard time with it, honestly.
Better arm, inferior talent, and a far worse head coach. I'd love to see Rodgers play in a dome with guys like Kamara, Ingram, Thomas and that line.
Come on man.
I distinctly remember in 2012 at our place, right before half time, he rolled away from pressure and rather than throw in the endzone as a last play....he simply stepped out of bounds. End of half.
I was like wow......
He's been a great performer, but let's remember he's 36 now......as he gets older he's going to regress most likely. Maybe that's starting.
And in the NFL, when you play a poor game you're open to criticism. Esp at QB.
What I don't know is if the offensive success in New England is maybe related to Charlie Weis, Bill O'Brien, and Josh McDaniels with Brady at QB or does Belichick influence it enough to consider it his offense.
I mean look at the Patriots defense the past couple seasons. It seems like they get absolutely torched every time they play a decent offense. Look what Nick Foles did to them in the SB, look what Mahomes did to them, heck look what Mariota did last weekend.
The offense bailed them out in one of those three games, and it seems like people give Belichick the credit for the W when that happens and no blame for the L's.
but his defense did all they could to lose those games and Brady and the offense bailed them out.
Why isn't it that Brady or the OC gets the credit, but it's all Belichick.
I simply don't know how the responsibilities are divided up in New England, if you do then great, you are plugged in to the Patriots more than me.
Swap them up.......imagine Rodgers in dome 9x a year?
Playing in Lambeau is not easy....in fact, it's right up there with the toughest venues to play.
Stats are fun aren't they? Do they talk about Sean Payton running up the score or Drew Brees constantly throwing 1 yard TD's on 1st and Goal from the 1?
2011 Rodgers is better than anything Brees has ever done, IMO and never got the benefit of a dome.
What does Rodgers do that's so much better than Brees? INT totals are way better for Rodgers, but that fits with the notion that he holds the ball and takes a sack vs. letting it fly.
I haven't thought much about it, but I'm trying to figure out exactly what it would be that Rodgers does that's so much better than Brees. Having a hard time with it, honestly.
My mistake
He's been a great performer, but let's remember he's 36 now......as he gets older he's going to regress most likely. Maybe that's starting.
And in the NFL, when you play a poor game you're open to criticism. Esp at QB.
Keep in mind, he's been playing with a tear in his knee since Week 1. You can see it has hurt his mobility, he's getting caught from behind more than I've remembered and you can see a little more reluctance on his part to take off. He's still been great this year, just not super human.
[quote] than Brees at gunning it to the sideline. His Fastball is not only faster but more accurate than Brees'.
PFF has GB as the 3rd best OL this season (NO 5th and NE 9th).
Brees/Brady also release the ball much faster than Rodgers, which helps give the impression of better OL play. That's also what makes Rodgers special, his ability to improvise and extend plays.
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.......his arm is incredible how he can throw from different positions and get it out quick.
He's been a great performer, but let's remember he's 36 now......as he gets older he's going to regress most likely. Maybe that's starting.
And in the NFL, when you play a poor game you're open to criticism. Esp at QB.
Keep in mind, he's been playing with a tear in his knee since Week 1. You can see it has hurt his mobility, he's getting caught from behind more than I've remembered and you can see a little more reluctance on his part to take off. He's still been great this year, just not super human.
Oh yeah I know...hey, I think the guy is great. But he's having some injuries now...and being in your late 30s doesn't help.
[quote] than Brees at gunning it to the sideline. His Fastball is not only faster but more accurate than Brees'.
PFF has GB as the 3rd best OL this season (NO 5th and NE 9th).
Brees/Brady also release the ball much faster than Rodgers, which helps give the impression of better OL play. That's also what makes Rodgers special, his ability to improvise and extend plays. Link - ( New Window )
Good point about time of release, but overall New Orleans has been the best OL int he NFL over the last decade imo.
Brees: 120-79 Record, 68.5 completion percentage, 60,698 yards, 429 TD's, 176 INT's, 7.8 yards per attempt, 7.9 air yards per attempt, 305 yards per game, 100.5 rating
Rodgers: 98-53-1 Record, 64.9 completion percentage, 41,575 yards, 332 TD's, 79 INT's, 7.9 yards per attempt, 8.5 air yards per attempt, 261 yards per game, 103.7 rating.
I know Brees has two more years as a starter in this comparison, but geez.... nearly 100 more TD's passes and 20,000 more passing yards is a lot for only 2 years difference.
Looks at the stats I posted between Peyton and Rodger's home/road stats in the playoffs. The difference is staggering and it isn't that small of a sample size.
While this wouldn't be the end all be all, its significant when talking about production, IMO.
Brees: 120-79 Record, 68.5 completion percentage, 60,698 yards, 429 TD's, 176 INT's, 7.8 yards per attempt, 7.9 air yards per attempt, 305 yards per game, 100.5 rating
Rodgers: 98-53-1 Record, 64.9 completion percentage, 41,575 yards, 332 TD's, 79 INT's, 7.9 yards per attempt, 8.5 air yards per attempt, 261 yards per game, 103.7 rating.
I know Brees has two more years as a starter in this comparison, but geez.... nearly 100 more TD's passes and 20,000 more passing yards is a lot for only 2 years difference.
How many more INTs does he have? Ohh yeah almost 100. Brees was a turnover machine for a good chunk of his career.
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vs. Aaron Rodgers 11 years in Green Bay both as starters:
Brees: 120-79 Record, 68.5 completion percentage, 60,698 yards, 429 TD's, 176 INT's, 7.8 yards per attempt, 7.9 air yards per attempt, 305 yards per game, 100.5 rating
Rodgers: 98-53-1 Record, 64.9 completion percentage, 41,575 yards, 332 TD's, 79 INT's, 7.9 yards per attempt, 8.5 air yards per attempt, 261 yards per game, 103.7 rating.
I know Brees has two more years as a starter in this comparison, but geez.... nearly 100 more TD's passes and 20,000 more passing yards is a lot for only 2 years difference.
How many more INTs does he have? Ohh yeah almost 100. Brees was a turnover machine for a good chunk of his career.
Isn't the knock on Rodgers that he eats the ball rather than try to throw it?
Sometimes you gotta let it fly. What did Parcells say? "Phil, if you don't throw at least two interceptions today, you're not trying hard enough"
It's 47 games - Brees has started 199 games for the Saints, Rodgers has started 152 for the Packers. Brees has only missed 2 starts in 13 years, Rodgers missed 7 games in 2013 and 9 games last year.
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vs. Aaron Rodgers 11 years in Green Bay both as starters:
It's 47 games - Brees has started 199 games for the Saints, Rodgers has started 152 for the Packers. Brees has only missed 2 starts in 13 years, Rodgers missed 7 games in 2013 and 9 games last year.
Well, durability should be taken into account too, shouldn't it? Isn't one of the QB's best abilities "availability"?
Advantage Brees.
I just don't really think you are being objective. You are posting stats but that isn't the whole story. It doesn't account for the better OL and rushing attack Brees has had, or his better skill players. Or playing in a dome. Or running up the score all those years when they could have ran the ball out or taken a knee (which I vividly remember because BBI would go nuts about it).
Brees has been more durable. That's about the only thing in his favor, IMO.
Rodgers' highest passing yard total was 4600 yards.
And quite honestly, looking at all of his passing yard totals, I'm not seeing really any that jump out at me since "4000 yards became the new normal in this pass heavy league" (which I hear quite often here).
2008: 4038
2009: 4434
2010: 3922 (Superbowl year)
2011: 4643 (career high)
2012: 4295
2013: 2536
2014: 4381
2015: 3821
2016: 4428
2017: 1675
I'm not crapping on Rodgers, I've just never really looked at it. I honestly thought some of those totals would be higher.
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Sure. Although not a deciding factor imo.
Looks at the stats I posted between Peyton and Rodger's home/road stats in the playoffs. The difference is staggering and it isn't that small of a sample size.
While this wouldn't be the end all be all, its significant when talking about production, IMO.
Did you include Brees? I was speaking of Brees not Peyton with regards to playing in a dome. Perhaps I have misunderstood
I'm not seeing it, really.
Brees has been every bit as deadly a passer as Rodgers. We've seen it first hand.
Would anybody choose differently?
I'm not seeing it, really.
Brees has been every bit as deadly a passer as Rodgers. We've seen it first hand.
I can see as a fact and quite easily too.
I'm not seeing it, really.
Brees has been every bit as deadly a passer as Rodgers. We've seen it first hand.
That is all I'm attempting to point out
I'm not seeing it, really.
Brees has been every bit as deadly a passer as Rodgers. We've seen it first hand.
Yes, and I don't know why you keep asking the question. I've given you examples, are you just ignoring them? Its like you are having a conversation with only yourself.
Rodgers is up there with Brady and Manning. Brees isn't, IMO. He's in the next tier by himself, but he isn't in Tier 1.
Hasn't Eli had more playoff success than Brees? And i'm not just talking about 2 titles but more wins? I can argue that Brees as severely underachieved even moresoe than Rodgers in the post season.
Would anybody choose differently?