NGT: Interesting take on Aaron Rodgers from Ross Tucker

In comment 14179472 Keith said:

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behind Brady and Peyton.

I put Brees over both Peyton and Rodgers.

In comment 14179651 Keith said:

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that's a pretty important piece of the puzzle. Rodgers rarely turns the ball over, Brees has turned it over a lot. Those are game changers. I also wouldn't focus on TD's as much as I would pts scored. I'd be curious to compare pts scored during that timeframe.

Well, points for New Orleans, by year, 2006-2017

2006: 413 (25.8/g) 5th of 32
2007: 379 (23.7/g) 12th of 32
2008: 463 (28.9/g) 1st of 32
2009: 510 (31.9/g) 1st of 32 (Superbowl)
2010: 384 (24.0/g) 11th of 32
2011: 547 (34.2/g) 2nd of 32
2012: 461 (28.8/g) 3rd of 32
2013: 414 (25.9/g) 10th of 32
2014: 401 (25.1/g) 9th of 32
2015: 408 (25.5/g) 8th of 32
2016: 469 (29.3/g) 2nd of 32
2017: 448 (28.0/g) 4th of 32

Points for Green Bay, 2008-2017:

2008: 419 (26.2/g) 5th of 32
2009: 461 (28.8/g) 3rd of 32
2010: 388 (24.3/g) 10th of 32 (Superbowl)
2011: 560 (35.0/g) 1st of 32
2012: 433 (27.1/g) 5th of 32
2013: 417 (26.1/g) 8th of 32
2014: 486 (30.4/g) 1st of 32
2015: 368 (23.0/g) 15th of 32
2016: 432 (27.0/g) 4th of 32
2017: 320 (20.0/g) 21st of 32

saying Brees is a HOF inside or outside of a dome..... but not in the same realm as the Big 3 of his era.

In comment 14179662 sb from NYT Forum said:

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In comment 14179472 Keith said: Quote: behind Brady and Peyton. I put Brees over both Peyton and Rodgers.

Just crazy talk.

People who give Peyton shortcomings need to understand that he put up today's numbers in a time where running was still the main objective.

In comment 14179635 UConn4523 said:

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but is certainly true for other QB's too. I've seen Brees do it, Roethlisberger is famous for it. I just don't really think you are being objective. You are posting stats but that isn't the whole story. It doesn't account for the better OL and rushing attack Brees has had, or his better skill players. Or playing in a dome. Or running up the score all those years when they could have ran the ball out or taken a knee (which I vividly remember because BBI would go nuts about it).

that running up the score stuff is a falsehood by the way. The data doesn't support it. Just because he has whooped up on the Giants so often this is the perception

for his entire career, when leading with 4 min to go he only has 683 yards and 3 TDs



Link - ( New Window )

when leading with 4 mins to go Eli has 308 yards and 5 TDs

Link - ( New Window )

They both have one championship.

If you could only put one of the two of them in the HOF, for sake of argument, how would you justify putting Rodgers in over Brees?

Would you rather have Eli's career (2 rings with MVPs in both, borderline HOF stats) or the careers of Rodgers/Brees (1 ring, top 3-5 all time stats)?

I find the Brees vs. Rodgers comparison much better.

Better OL and running game? Which one almost never plays in adverse weather?

are awesome and among the greatest of all time, so it's kind of splitting hairs here.

Both guys have had a few playoff losses where they've put up some big numbers and scored a lot of points. Margins in the postseason are thin.

Personally I'd take Rodgers, but I do think Brees is just a little underrated in some discussions and it might be closer than some of the common views.

Both guys can make you feel completely helpless as an opposing fan of defense though. Along with Peyton and Brady, the just look 100 percent unstoppable a lot of the time.

Answer on this because I don't believe there to be one. My point is simply that I don't feel it's some sort of blasphemy to take one over the other. They're close enough in my view

who roots for Rodgers to lose? Since the Giants are a joke now it is something that keeps me into the NFL. The way he is ordained as the best of all time and so on. His arrogance annoys me too. That title run was partially gift wrapped too in the 2010 NFC title game Jay Cutler took the day off and the third string almost beat the Pack. I think Rodgers ran one in, nut their nose guard had a pick six to seal it. I love it when Rodgers loses.

Brees I root for and like, but we have to be fair and realize he has some inflated Stas due to playing in a dome and a division with one other done team and good weather.

In comment 14179687 Jerry in DC said:

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are awesome and among the greatest of all time, so it's kind of splitting hairs here. Both guys have had a few playoff losses where they've put up some big numbers and scored a lot of points. Margins in the postseason are thin. Personally I'd take Rodgers, but I do think Brees is just a little underrated in some discussions and it might be closer than some of the common views. Both guys can make you feel completely helpless as an opposing fan of defense though. Along with Peyton and Brady, the just look 100 percent unstoppable a lot of the time.

👍

In comment 14179683 Britt in VA said:

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I find the Brees vs. Rodgers comparison much better.

Well Brees & Rodgers are both better players than Eli. But if the 3 of them are sitting around having drinks in retirement, who feels best about their career accomplishments?

Or look at it another way. Would you rather the next Giants QB wins 2 SBs with inconsistent play at times or 1 SB with a couple regular season MVPs?

In comment 14179691 crick n NC said:

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Answer on this because I don't believe there to be one. My point is simply that I don't feel it's some sort of blasphemy to take one over the other. They're close enough in my view

I don't believe there is one, either. I agree they are all great and this is splitting hairs.

However, I just can't put Rodgers in the greatest of all time talk like I see many do, because frankly he's right there with Brees, who I put under Peyton, who I put (considerably) under Brady.

of this generation to turn on a game being played by them, just sit back on a Sunday afternoon, watch, and enjoy. Along with prime Peyton Manning, of course. They're my top 3. Can't go wrong with any of them. Brady and Big Ben are up there, but a level below the aforementioned gentlemen just in terms of enjoying watch them play. There's those 5, and there's everyone else.

In comment 14179692 rocco8112 said:

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who roots for Rodgers to lose? Since the Giants are a joke now it is something that keeps me into the NFL. The way he is ordained as the best of all time and so on. His arrogance annoys me too. That title run was partially gift wrapped too in the 2010 NFC title game Jay Cutler took the day off and the third string almost beat the Pack. I think Rodgers ran one in, nut their nose guard had a pick six to seal it. I love it when Rodgers loses. Brees I root for and like, but we have to be fair and realize he has some inflated Stas due to playing in a dome and a division with one other done team and good weather.

Saints fans are the pits and I loathe Sean Payton, so no, I would not root for Brees. Packers fans, I've had no problems with, so I don't mind Rodgers doing well.

has to sting for Brees. 466 yards and 3 TDs against Detroit - they scored on basically every drive. Then 462 with 4 TDs and 2 picks, putting up 32 points at San Fran. And we know how filthy that 49ers D was.

I think most of us were pretty pumped about that final Alex Smith drive to win it. I wanted zero part of going to the Superdome that year.

is when he gets sacked.... he gets so mad as if how dare his OL not block for him. A few times last night he was sacked.... and just threw his hands up at them.

Packers have consistently fielded poor defenses that don't hold leads or make critical stops.

In comment 14179708 Jerry in DC said:

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has to sting for Brees. 466 yards and 3 TDs against Detroit - they scored on basically every drive. Then 462 with 4 TDs and 2 picks, putting up 32 points at San Fran. And we know how filthy that 49ers D was. I think most of us were pretty pumped about that final Alex Smith drive to win it. I wanted zero part of going to the Superdome that year.

Exactly, I remember that Alex Smith play perfectly.

And that's why I asked earlier, you have to win ONE game... Would you rather go face Rodgers in Green Bay, or would you rather face Brees in NO?

I know my answer without a doubt, and your post sums it up.

In comment 14179710 clatterbuck said:

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Packers have consistently fielded poor defenses that don't hold leads or make critical stops.

You can say this for any QB. Hell I and many others on BBI have been saying it for years about the Giants defense.

In comment 14179708 Jerry in DC said:

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has to sting for Brees. 466 yards and 3 TDs against Detroit - they scored on basically every drive. Then 462 with 4 TDs and 2 picks, putting up 32 points at San Fran. And we know how filthy that 49ers D was. I think most of us were pretty pumped about that final Alex Smith drive to win it. I wanted zero part of going to the Superdome that year.

Yep, the giants needed that break just as much any break they got all year in '11

Britt asking the same questions 17 different ways and not acknowledging any of the responses is pointless. Have fun guys.

In comment 14179711 Britt in VA said:

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In comment 14179708 Jerry in DC said: Quote: has to sting for Brees. 466 yards and 3 TDs against Detroit - they scored on basically every drive. Then 462 with 4 TDs and 2 picks, putting up 32 points at San Fran. And we know how filthy that 49ers D was. I think most of us were pretty pumped about that final Alex Smith drive to win it. I wanted zero part of going to the Superdome that year. Exactly, I remember that Alex Smith play perfectly. And that's why I asked earlier, you have to win ONE game... Would you rather go face Rodgers in Green Bay, or would you rather face Brees in NO? I know my answer without a doubt, and your post sums it up.

Especially with the whooping the Saints had put on us earlier in the year at the Dome. Never rooted harder for another NFL team as much as I did for the 9ers that day.

In comment 14179714 UConn4523 said:

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Britt asking the same questions 17 different ways and not acknowledging any of the responses is pointless. Have fun guys.

Am I the only one in the discussion? I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was an AMA....

In comment 14179714 UConn4523 said:

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Britt asking the same questions 17 different ways and not acknowledging any of the responses is pointless. Have fun guys.

It's no big deal, you have a different opinion. It's fine. I see your point of view.

In comment 14179625 Britt in VA said:

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but I've also seen people post Brees's stats outside the dome recently and they are pretty damn good, too. Not much of a dip, really.

Maybe, but you have to acknowledge the difference of playing outdoors in Tampa and Carolina v GB and Chicago.

For me, the Saints home offense at its peak is among the highest ceiling, most unstoppable forces I've seen. IMO it's a higher peak than all the other offenses of the modern era. And it spanned more years than the elite defenses like the Ravens and Bucs of the early 2000s.

I dont know if that can be proven, but that's my feeling just from watching a lot of games.

In comment 14179718 Britt in VA said:

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In comment 14179714 UConn4523 said: Quote: Britt asking the same questions 17 different ways and not acknowledging any of the responses is pointless. Have fun guys. Am I the only one in the discussion? I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was an AMA....

I don�t know you just keep asking question after question and you get valid responses and completely dismiss those that don�t fit your argument. This discussion is a waste of time now because it isn�t really a discussion anymore.

In comment 14179716 figgy2989 said:

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In comment 14179711 Britt in VA said: Quote: In comment 14179708 Jerry in DC said: Quote: has to sting for Brees. 466 yards and 3 TDs against Detroit - they scored on basically every drive. Then 462 with 4 TDs and 2 picks, putting up 32 points at San Fran. And we know how filthy that 49ers D was. I think most of us were pretty pumped about that final Alex Smith drive to win it. I wanted zero part of going to the Superdome that year. Exactly, I remember that Alex Smith play perfectly. And that's why I asked earlier, you have to win ONE game... Would you rather go face Rodgers in Green Bay, or would you rather face Brees in NO? I know my answer without a doubt, and your post sums it up. Especially with the whooping the Saints had put on us earlier in the year at the Dome. Never rooted harder for another NFL team as much as I did for the 9ers that day.

Comparatively, we also played Green Bay earlier that season, and frankly, should have won. We lost by three.
We got screwed by the refs on a couple calls that game, namely the Jake Ballard (non) TD, and the Green Bay WR not having control of a catch in the endzone (which as the time was the Calvin Johnson rule).

In comment 14179732 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 14179718 Britt in VA said: Quote: In comment 14179714 UConn4523 said: Quote: Britt asking the same questions 17 different ways and not acknowledging any of the responses is pointless. Have fun guys. Am I the only one in the discussion? I'm sorry, I didn't realize this was an AMA.... I don�t know you just keep asking question after question and you get valid responses and completely dismiss those that don�t fit your argument. This discussion is a waste of time now because it isn�t really a discussion anymore.

Seems like plenty are still having a discussion without a problem.

Rodgers and Brees are both going to the HoF. Both great. Rodgers has some physical tools that Brees doesn�t come close to having. Brees is far more durable than Rodgers and I suspect his all time numbers will dwarf Rodgers when all is said and done because he will have played a lot more games. I think the injuries will catch up to Rodgers. Brees played most of his games in a dome, it matters. There are a lot of factors to weigh here. If you were asking me who I would take at the beginning of their primes to start a franchise I would take Rodgers with a slight nod. It is not a small dunk.

No doubt about that.

Brees has gotten it done in two different systems. People forget the light bulb came on a the end of his time in San Diego. Of course I believe Rodgers would also be successful under another coach, but Brees has already proven it.

not very impressive for a supposed Top 5 QB ever

In comment 14179756 SHO'NUFF said:

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not very impressive for a supposed Top 5 QB ever

Drew Brees is 7-6, however, 2-5 on the road.

In comment 14179756 SHO'NUFF said:

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not very impressive for a supposed Top 5 QB ever

Just took a look at this site, it has Rodgers at 9-7 career in the playoffs.


Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14179756 SHO'NUFF said:

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not very impressive for a supposed Top 5 QB ever

Also not true at all..

In comment 14179756 SHO'NUFF said:

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not very impressive for a supposed Top 5 QB ever

Meh. There are QB's who have more that aren't as good as Rodgers is. Championships are about alot more than one player.

In comment 14179687 Jerry in DC said:

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are awesome and among the greatest of all time, so it's kind of splitting hairs here. Both guys have had a few playoff losses where they've put up some big numbers and scored a lot of points. Margins in the postseason are thin. Personally I'd take Rodgers, but I do think Brees is just a little underrated in some discussions and it might be closer than some of the common views. Both guys can make you feel completely helpless as an opposing fan of defense though. Along with Peyton and Brady, the just look 100 percent unstoppable a lot of the time.

I agree - I can't really disagree with anyone who picks one of these guys over the other.

I think Rodgers' peak is the best I've ever seen. I'd probably rank them: Peyton, Rodgers, Brady, Brees. But I think the order is totally subjective and makes for a fun discussion.

and anyone trying to argue that he is top 5 of all-time. Is he even the best QB in his franchise's history? You could make a good argument that Starr and Favre would both be ahead of him.

I don't think there is much argument the top 4 would be Unitas, Montana, Manning, Brady in some order. The next two for me would be Elway and Marino, and then you can start looking at the Packers guys, Namath, Graham.

I personally would have Rodgers behind all of those guys, and in the mix with Young and Brees.

No question about that. But when it comes to running an offense and being in total command of what is happening, Brees is up there with anyone in history.

I'm a huge Brees guy. I'd take him up against anybody and feel fine about it.

Tom Brady has Belichick. Drew Brees Has Payton. Aaron Rogers has McCarthy. Switch coaches and see who wins more for their careers.

In comment 14179708 Jerry in DC said:

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has to sting for Brees. 466 yards and 3 TDs against Detroit - they scored on basically every drive. Then 462 with 4 TDs and 2 picks, putting up 32 points at San Fran. And we know how filthy that 49ers D was. I think most of us were pretty pumped about that final Alex Smith drive to win it. I wanted zero part of going to the Superdome that year.

I wouldn't have summoned that to mind in a vacuum, Jerry, but now that you mention it, I do recall it vividly. Brees has owned us for most of his career, and he was as hot as ever. Not that San Fran was a picnic, one of the most grueling games to watch, right up there with the Marshall-on-Montana NFC Championship game 1990, brutal battle for field position and FG after FG.

The real problem for many years was Ted Thompson and his unwillingness to use FA more aggressively. He was determined to build a team predominantly via the draft.

That approach has put an enormous onus on Rodgers to make chicken salad out of chicken sh-t. And he's the best I've ever seen at dragging a team to wins since the great John Elway.

Marino didn't win a single SB and anyone with an IQ above 50 could quickly identify that he was a phenomenal QB. Rodgers is a better version of Marino - better athlete, better mind, and better arm. And he has 1 SB.

I don't care if Rodgers never wins another SB, he's the most gifted QB that has ever lived. This nit-picking to find fault is embarrassing...

In comment 14179758 figgy2989 said:

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In comment 14179756 SHO'NUFF said: Quote: not very impressive for a supposed Top 5 QB ever Just took a look at this site, it has Rodgers at 9-7 career in the playoffs. Link - ( New Window )

Sorry, 5-6 since his last Super Bowl-NINE years ago.

I think he is a notch under Brady and Peyton in this era. Therefor a notch lower than a few other all time.

Like somebody else said, I don't even know if he's the greatest Green Bay QB ever. Is Rodgers better than Brett Favre? I think that's a tough sell.

In comment 14179806 bw in dc said:

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The real problem for many years was Ted Thompson and his unwillingness to use FA more aggressively. He was determined to build a team predominantly via the draft. That approach has put an enormous onus on Rodgers to make chicken salad out of chicken sh-t. And he's the best I've ever seen at dragging a team to wins since the great John Elway. Marino didn't win a single SB and anyone with an IQ above 50 could quickly identify that he was a phenomenal QB. Rodgers is a better version of Marino - better athlete, better mind, and better arm. And he has 1 SB. I don't care if Rodgers never wins another SB, he's the most gifted QB that has ever lived. This nit-picking to find fault is embarrassing...

it�s embarrassing just like calling JPP�s comments this week as trash talking was embarrassing