This is a negative trend to the long term success of the team imo.
This ownership is prone to mistaking some garbage time insignificant wins against bottom quartile teams as evidence the team is close and just missing a few pieces.
In the meantime our draft capital is being damaged by victories that provide nothing but a short term morale boost, and assistance to the job security of Eli and Shurmur. Can't blame these two as winning is what they are paid and programmed to do.
But the result is bad for the franchise. I'd rather they lose out from here.
You can accuse me of not being a real fan, or having the wrong perspective as losing breeds the wrong culture. But we didn't design the system. We just need to utilise it to maximise our advantage. Winning 7 games in 2003 probably means no Eli and no championships in 2007 and 2011.
Yes...but it does make sense to me still. Basically I'm concerned that:
A)Ownership will get convinced we are fine if we win a couple more games, and attribute first half of the season losses to an adjustment period to the new regime.
B) We won't have the draft capital necessary to significantly improve the team.
Hope its an easier read now.
Seriously.
Losing is a culture. They need to learn to win.
Losing is a culture. They need to learn to win.
We also need a little more talent on D.
Jesus, even today you have to do this> He had one incompletion today. ONE. Give it a rest for a day
Losing is a culture. They need to learn to win.
Actually THIS is the bullshit.
The team doesn't need to "learn how to win".
Do you really think that if they win a few games and finish, say 6-10 or 7-9 it's going to carry over to next year because they "learned how to win".
They learned how to win in 2016 when they went 11-5. Did that carry over and create success for 2017?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's a franchise QB at the top of the draft this year, so I'm rooting for the Giants to win out. But I don't think that the players or the coaches need to learn how to win or that their record this year will impact next year.
Nothing good comes from losing. Sure, you're always picking at the top of the board but mentally you get used to just showing up, collecting your check and not worrying about it.
Screw that, if you learn how to win, you can many times do it with ordinary players who have a big heart. The 1972 (only team to go undefeated post-to-post) are the best example. A lot of very ordinary players.
Losing is a culture. They need to learn to win.
This. Talented teams lose lots of games bc theyve "learned to lose."
Every year is a new year.
And who exactly needs to "learn how to win" on this team?
Is Barkley a loser because his team is 3-7?
How about Hernandez and Carter. Are they losers too?
Eli, Solder and OBJ? Losers all?
And when the current group of Giants "learn how to win" and there's another big turnover in personnel in the off-season, what good is that going to do the 2019 team?
Or maybe the current NFL is different every year and there simply isn't as much carryover as there used to be.
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This roster needs to learn how to win. Most of these guys have never been on a winning NFL team.
Losing is a culture. They need to learn to win.
Actually THIS is the bullshit.
The team doesn't need to "learn how to win".
Do you really think that if they win a few games and finish, say 6-10 or 7-9 it's going to carry over to next year because they "learned how to win".
They learned how to win in 2016 when they went 11-5. Did that carry over and create success for 2017?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's a franchise QB at the top of the draft this year, so I'm rooting for the Giants to win out. But I don't think that the players or the coaches need to learn how to win or that their record this year will impact next year.
It's a brand new coach, and a brand new offensive system and defensive system that probably aren't even fully installed yet.
You don't think successfully learning them and executing them will carry over?
No offense, but have you actually ever played or coached football?
Or maybe the current NFL is different every year and there simply isn't as much carryover as there used to be.
The Eagles won the super bowl. And they come out and fight every week because they feel like they are champs. If they had gone 3-13 instead of 13-3 and champions last year I bet you money that a good chunk of the team would be making business decisions and packing it in for the season. Winning makes a difference and does affect the psyche of the players. To what extent is up for debate.
DO most of you understand that despite the GMen rushing so well that ELi was sacked 4 times vs a god awful defense?
DO some of you have any clue that when you draft 2nd you get "Barkley" WHen you draft 9th or 10th you get "Erik Flowers and ELi Apple?"
DO most of you understand that despite the GMen rushing so well that ELi was sacked 4 times vs a god awful defense?
DO some of you have any clue that when you draft 2nd you get "Barkley" WHen you draft 9th or 10th you get "Erik Flowers and ELi Apple?"
Yes, only picks 2 overall and higher have any shot of being successful in the NFL.
DO most of you understand that despite the GMen rushing so well that ELi was sacked 4 times vs a god awful defense?
DO some of you have any clue that when you draft 2nd you get "Barkley" WHen you draft 9th or 10th you get "Erik Flowers and ELi Apple?"
Do you have any clue we drafted the best wide receiver in football 12th? The draft is a crap shoot.
typical strawman argument from you.
Who cares "what other PEOPLE" wanted. WHen are you going to realize it is not "what other people" want that matters. It's not them vs DG. It's that DG MUST BE right. Just because a fan is wrong doesn't mean you should excuse DG for also being wrong.
DG's job is to be right. It's not to compare his choices vs the fans choices.
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Many of you are delusional just like Reese was when he thought after one seaosn in which GMEN were awful early and came on late that he didn't have to draft OLinemen.
DO most of you understand that despite the GMen rushing so well that ELi was sacked 4 times vs a god awful defense?
DO some of you have any clue that when you draft 2nd you get "Barkley" WHen you draft 9th or 10th you get "Erik Flowers and ELi Apple?"
Do you have any clue we drafted the best wide receiver in football 12th? The draft is a crap shoot.
The draft is a crapshoot?
That's just great.
Tell all the GM's and all the scouts their opinion is nothing more than a crapshoot.
So Reese being terrible was unlucky was a crapshoot too?
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Many of you are delusional just like Reese was when he thought after one seaosn in which GMEN were awful early and came on late that he didn't have to draft OLinemen.
DO most of you understand that despite the GMen rushing so well that ELi was sacked 4 times vs a god awful defense?
DO some of you have any clue that when you draft 2nd you get "Barkley" WHen you draft 9th or 10th you get "Erik Flowers and ELi Apple?"
Yes, only picks 2 overall and higher have any shot of being successful in the NFL.
Where did I say no other than the two top picks have no shot of being successful? Or did you just choose to misrepresent my post?
Winning is important, and we need to build on it.
Winning is important, and we need to build on it.
Yes but sometimes you need to stink.
Would the Gmen have gotten LT or Carl Banks or Eli and now SB if they didn't stink?
So 6-10 no winning culture but 7-9 a winning culture?
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In comment 14182463 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
This roster needs to learn how to win. Most of these guys have never been on a winning NFL team.
Losing is a culture. They need to learn to win.
Actually THIS is the bullshit.
The team doesn't need to "learn how to win".
Do you really think that if they win a few games and finish, say 6-10 or 7-9 it's going to carry over to next year because they "learned how to win".
They learned how to win in 2016 when they went 11-5. Did that carry over and create success for 2017?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's a franchise QB at the top of the draft this year, so I'm rooting for the Giants to win out. But I don't think that the players or the coaches need to learn how to win or that their record this year will impact next year.
It's a brand new coach, and a brand new offensive system and defensive system that probably aren't even fully installed yet.
You don't think successfully learning them and executing them will carry over?
No offense, but have you actually ever played or coached football?
Don't give me that "have you ever played ball" B.S.
I played HS ball and I doubt your football resume is any better, especially given your incessant "it's not Eli's fault" posts.
I've also watched enough NFL football in the last 50+ years to know that things have changed. Nowadays with free agency and roster turnover, there is limited carryover from year to year. A few extra victories this year doesn't equate to more victories next year.
The players don't have to learn to win. They already know how. Talent wins in the NFL. When the Giants get more talent they'll win more games. It's idiotic to think otherwise.
No offense of course.
So, their record is whatever it ends up being. I certainly can't control it - and I would forever lose respect for the organization were I to learn they instructed their players to lose on purpose. So, in that sense, the draft position is outside the control of the team itself. As such, it's just stupid to get upset by it.
The fact is and will remain, there is not one employee on the NYG from the owner to the least talented player on the practice squad that will, or be asked to, TANK for draft position!
Not happening, enjoy the win for crying out loud.
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In comment 14182551 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 14182463 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
This roster needs to learn how to win. Most of these guys have never been on a winning NFL team.
Losing is a culture. They need to learn to win.
Actually THIS is the bullshit.
The team doesn't need to "learn how to win".
Do you really think that if they win a few games and finish, say 6-10 or 7-9 it's going to carry over to next year because they "learned how to win".
They learned how to win in 2016 when they went 11-5. Did that carry over and create success for 2017?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's a franchise QB at the top of the draft this year, so I'm rooting for the Giants to win out. But I don't think that the players or the coaches need to learn how to win or that their record this year will impact next year.
It's a brand new coach, and a brand new offensive system and defensive system that probably aren't even fully installed yet.
You don't think successfully learning them and executing them will carry over?
No offense, but have you actually ever played or coached football?
Don't give me that "have you ever played ball" B.S.
I played HS ball and I doubt your football resume is any better, especially given your incessant "it's not Eli's fault" posts.
I've also watched enough NFL football in the last 50+ years to know that things have changed. Nowadays with free agency and roster turnover, there is limited carryover from year to year. A few extra victories this year doesn't equate to more victories next year.
The players don't have to learn to win. They already know how. Talent wins in the NFL. When the Giants get more talent they'll win more games. It's idiotic to think otherwise.
No offense of course.
Why does winning prevent them from adding more talent?