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Carl Banks defense "fundamentally" inept.

joeinpa : 11/18/2018 5:44 pm
Doesn t know if it s a lack of talen, because they are so often out of position. If they were in position and getting beat, yes then it s talent.

He can t believe Jenkins and Collins could allow Evans to make that play with 2min + to go

Overall, Not so much lack of talent as it is lack of effort.
Not having Snacks has really hurt the run defense  
nyjuggernaut2 : 11/18/2018 5:51 pm : link
First 7 games with him there the defense was giving up and average of 3.9 upc. Last 3 games with him not there they are giving up 5.1 ypc.
We might have sold too early on Snacks.  
CromartiesKid21 : 11/18/2018 5:53 pm : link
A mere 5th round pick when he could be making such a massive difference...IMO he went to a weaker team (Lions) than what we have on paper
Well Managment traded the best  
LauderdaleMatty : 11/18/2018 5:54 pm : link
player on that side of the ball for a 5th rounder.

So if your management team basically throws in the towel in I'd suggest the players are not as invested as they might be.

JPP was over paid but at least they got a 3. Snacks was a monster and played his ass off. My guess is Betcher has his work cut out for him between that and the absolute need of a lot more talent overall.
RE: We might have sold too early on Snacks.  
LauderdaleMatty : 11/18/2018 5:55 pm : link
In comment 14182713 CromartiesKid21 said:
Quote:
A mere 5th round pick when he could be making such a massive difference...IMO he went to a weaker team (Lions) than what we have on paper


Beat me by a minute. +1
Trade of Snacks made no sense  
jeff57 : 11/18/2018 5:56 pm : link
Especially for the return.
a couple of things  
robbieballs2003 : 11/18/2018 5:58 pm : link
1. when Snacks was on the field we were not good at stopping the run giving up over 5 ypc if I am not mistaken.

2. part of the reason Snacks was moved was because of our defense. It is believed that Bettcher wants penetrating DL to get a pass rush making Snacks expendable.
Well, they gave up on the season by trading Snacks.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/18/2018 5:59 pm : link
And it's not the offense and ST's are much better, either.
Whatever  
joeinpa : 11/18/2018 6:00 pm : link
Alarming to here they are not preparing as they should
RE: Well, they gave up on the season by trading Snacks.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/18/2018 6:00 pm : link
In comment 14182731 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
And it's not the offense and ST's are much better, either.


*not like
...  
christian : 11/18/2018 6:03 pm : link
The Giants opted to jettison two, if flawed, starters.

The return aside, they we're important players. No one should be surprised the unit got worse.
RE: a couple of things  
LauderdaleMatty : 11/18/2018 6:11 pm : link
In comment 14182726 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
1. when Snacks was on the field we were not good at stopping the run giving up over 5 ypc if I am not mistaken.

2. part of the reason Snacks was moved was because of our defense. It is believed that Bettcher wants penetrating DL to get a pass rush making Snacks expendable.


Robbie, I cant totally agree with that as its hard to assess a defense when your offense is such a shit show. Too many un-knowables but its hard to say the Giants are better without him. And even if they were statistically bad with him he's hardly the guy I'd point to fist.

Secondly I was hoping Bettcher would be more innovative year one and use a bit more/of the 4-3 since the LBs suck so bad during the transition year. Think he's done well with the shit they've given him in general

Still, the Snacks trade IMO was a bad move other than saving some cap space which only helps if the sign good FAs which they didn't this year for sure. That 5th round pick is virtually nothing IMO.

Harrison may have been the. Ian cancer  
giantsFC : 11/18/2018 6:17 pm : link
For all we know. The team has been pretty decent since they dumped some of those players.

Correlation?

Wouldn’t be surprised to see Jenkins and Collins not return next year either.
Is there a stat for yards after contact? The Giants must be last.  
Ivan15 : 11/18/2018 6:21 pm : link
.
More of a 4-3 look might be used on 3rd down  
Simms11 : 11/18/2018 6:24 pm : link
Need to also see how McIntosh will do as well. He was more of a pass rusher in college. Also Avery Moss might be a better contributor to this pas rush, but he’d have to be brought up from PS. I’d jettison Barwin and bring up Avery Moss right now!
RE: Trade of Snacks made no sense  
Jay on the Island : 11/18/2018 6:31 pm : link
In comment 14182720 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Especially for the return.

I disagree. While I was not happy with the return I think it was more about clearing his cap number off the books while also ridding themselves of a player that wouldn't be apart of the future of this team.
Snacks seemed to be wearing down pretty quickly. This may have been  
Ivan15 : 11/18/2018 6:39 pm : link
A situation where the Giants were looking at declining value, even if he is playing well now.
RE: a couple of things  
Ivan15 : 11/18/2018 6:40 pm : link
In comment 14182726 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
1. when Snacks was on the field we were not good at stopping the run giving up over 5 ypc if I am not mistaken.

2. part of the reason Snacks was moved was because of our defense. It is believed that Bettcher wants penetrating DL to get a pass rush making Snacks expendable.


If you want a penetrating line, you don’t play a 3-4.
Getting rid of Snacks...  
M.S. : 11/18/2018 7:02 pm : link

...just means that we have two huge blazing holes to fill on defense:

(1) Run Stop;
(2) Pass Rush;

We can't do shit on defense. How the fuck can you fix the O-line in the Draft when we need to fix 3/4 of our defense?

Getting a 5th Round pick for Snacks, or clearing cap space... or whatever blah, blah, blah justification one wants to make doesn't negate the fact that the Giants dumped their best defensive player.

We are just at the start of a multi-year re-build.


Snacks  
mittenedman : 11/18/2018 7:09 pm : link
was a "culture" move
RE: Snacks seemed to be wearing down pretty quickly. This may have been  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/18/2018 7:13 pm : link
In comment 14182807 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
A situation where the Giants were looking at declining value, even if he is playing well now.


This is it exactly. They Giants apparently believe that he was about to become a poor return on investment in terms of cap allocation. One can also speculate that they were looking for a different locker room presence from him.

The idea that they just jettisoned him for no reason whatsoever is a small-minded take.
RE: Getting rid of Snacks...  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/18/2018 7:15 pm : link
In comment 14182851 M.S. said:
Quote:

...just means that we have two huge blazing holes to fill on defense:

(1) Run Stop;
(2) Pass Rush;

We can't do shit on defense. How the fuck can you fix the O-line in the Draft when we need to fix 3/4 of our defense?

Getting a 5th Round pick for Snacks, or clearing cap space... or whatever blah, blah, blah justification one wants to make doesn't negate the fact that the Giants dumped their best defensive player.

We are just at the start of a multi-year re-build.



So what are you arguing exactly? Did they cut him just to be mean?

It's not "justification", it's a fact.
Fans always want it both ways.  
Brown Recluse : 11/18/2018 7:22 pm : link
When other teams are trading players and getting draft picks, fans whine and moan because their team doesnt.

When their team does, fans whine and moan anyway.

Dalvin Tomlinson  
Marty866b : 11/18/2018 7:22 pm : link
Is not a penetrating defensive lineman. He hasn't even been stout against the run. He is a total disappointment for a high second round pick. He's been playing almost two years and I can't recall many(any?)impact plays he has made. You would think(hope)that he was stout at the point of attack but along with Hill, we have been gouged in the middle. Of course, you can blame Ogletree(another Gettleman beauty) also.
Defense was bad but  
trueblueinpw : 11/18/2018 7:26 pm : link
There’s not enough talent on the defense but haven’t the Bucs been hanging a lot of yards on everyone?
I am starting to wish that the Giants accepted the Chiefs  
Jay on the Island : 11/18/2018 7:28 pm : link
offer at the deadline for Collins. I would now be happy with a 3rd for Collins as I don't have much faith that he will be the player he was two years ago. He will still get paid quite a bit and I don't want to overpay for a safety that struggles in coverage.
RE: Defense was bad but  
since1925 : 11/18/2018 7:54 pm : link
In comment 14182922 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
There’s not enough talent on the defense but haven’t the Bucs been hanging a lot of yards on everyone?


Tampa Bay leads the NFL in yards per game. They have moved the ball on everyone. That said, it was disappointing how easily they moved the ball against us.
Our defense  
KWALL2 : 11/18/2018 8:31 pm : link
Lacks talent across the board. It’s a talent issue.

We have a long way to go to get to respectable.
RE: RE: Snacks seemed to be wearing down pretty quickly. This may have been  
LauderdaleMatty : 11/18/2018 8:57 pm : link
In comment 14182884 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14182807 Ivan15 said:


Quote:


A situation where the Giants were looking at declining value, even if he is playing well now.



This is it exactly. They Giants apparently believe that he was about to become a poor return on investment in terms of cap allocation. One can also speculate that they were looking for a different locker room presence from him.

The idea that they just jettisoned him for no reason whatsoever is a small-minded take.


They did it for cap savings this year and get a pick. We get it. Everyone gets it. Especially the other players on the D.

And there's no denying that he was the best DL on the team The team would be better with him. Period. Anyone saying it wouldn't is a moron. They chose to take the savings and the pick. Their choice.

So when the team trades away maybe the best and msot likely a well liked player on the team it may effect moral and production. Thus a contributing factor in the "ineptness"

So Some of us feel it was short sighted and the return was shit. Which maybe led to a moral issue and lead to players being ambivalent as they may be let go next year regardless of their play. They traded two starters for shit. I'd suggest it was them(and you) and not us being small minded and short sighted

Banks is right  
Fritz : 11/18/2018 9:00 pm : link
I was at the game and listened to Banks’ comments on the ride home and he’s pretty much on point with his comments. The long touchdown pass was inexcusable at that point in the game. There were obviously other breakdowns on defense when they allow that much yardage and 35 points. That being said there is a real lack of talent on the defense. They really aren’t any playmakers on that side of the ball. Vernon is the only real pass rusher they have and he’s never lived up to expectations. The lack of any real pass rush is really a problem
I am a huge Snacks fan but..  
EricJ : 11/18/2018 9:15 pm : link
Robbie is right. We were not stuffing the run when he was on the field. Plus, he was a part time player coming off of the field on passing plays. This really was a good move for us and we were not going anywhere this year guys. Put lipstick on this pig all you want but the Giants are NOT one of the better teams in the NFC.

The only way we get to the Superbowl is if the other teams' charters fly into the side of a mountain.
RE: Trade of Snacks made no sense  
Rflairr : 11/18/2018 10:56 pm : link
In comment 14182720 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Especially for the return.


Nothing this GM has done has made sense
Hence the need for  
NikkiMac : 11/19/2018 8:58 am : link
Multiple draft picks next year, I don’t think Gettleman is done jettisoning players either.I think he’s not done acquiring picks......
It's a talent issue  
JonC : 11/19/2018 9:00 am : link
and it's a "good players trying to do too much" issue on top of it.

Ogletree is a huge culprit of blowing his gaps, it is effing frustrating to watch over and over.
RE:Snacks  
mittenedman : 11/19/2018 9:01 am : link
I've said this before but there it's pretty obvious the Giants determined Snacks was part of the culture problem. There is no other reason to get rid of the guy for a 5th rounder. He's not that old or expensive.

And you have to admit, for whatever reason, maybe pure coincidence, the team looks and plays much different without him. I don't know his true attitude from a hole in the wall, but I do know what I'm seeing on the field. Some guys, everyone defers to, and when they're gone it clears the way for people to step up.

I have a suspicion that Snacks'  
PEEJ : 11/19/2018 9:13 am : link
knees are becoming an issue.
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