If we decide not to draft AND start a rook QB next year, give me Eli. Or, if they draft a QB and want Eli to mentor him for a year.
But it has to be a discounted price in the $8-10 million range. Both the organization and Eli have to realize where he is, what he's giving us, and that the team has needs that can be addressed with that money.
Why not, I think the Giants will draft a QB in round 1, and I also think Beckham gets traded so they have multiple first round picks and others to maneuver around to get the QB in here. I would not be shocked to see them add another the following season when Eli is out of here, and depending on how much they like the new QB they will either get a higher profile veteran to take over, a career backup veteran, or draft another QB high, they must get the new QB in the next two draft for certain, they can not fuck this up or they will be screwed.
Eli won't take a pay cut and probably shouldn't be asked to take one.
His cap number doesn't justify a bridge QB or mentor QB for a team in rebuild. If we were SB contenders? Sure. But when you dig into it, it makes zero sense to overpay to that extent for a player that does absolutely nothing to bring you closer to a championship. You are better off signing a backup type QB to a 3-6m/yr deal, letting him compete with Lauletta and spending the difference on the best available OL free agent. We're talking about a difference of 10-15m to play with on a team with holes everywhere.
I've seen a lot of the keep Eli while we fix this or that until we can draft a franchise guy. Well...we only have so much cap room and so many draft picks. How are we plugging these holes? OL and Edge Rusher are the two most in demand positions. You have to pick that up from somewhere and Eli, being in the last year of his deal, is the biggest no brainer on the roster.
The team is 3-8. They were 3-13 last year (and Eli was 3-12). Eli continues to mismanage the play clock like a rookie instead of a 15 year veteran (either by burning timeouts or taking delay of game penalties). Are you so blinded by your undying affection for Eli that you're incapable of recognizing that he's every bit part of the problem as about half a dozen (or more) other factors with this team?
The 2nd highest paid player in NFL history is very likely going to finish this season with a career W/L record below .500 and fewer than 20 passing TDs for the 2nd consecutive year, but let's trot him out there for another season at 38 years old and a cap number that is commensurate with a franchise QB while he continues to play at a journeyman game manager level.
If this report is in any way true, this franchise is even more misbegotten than they appeared to be already.
And the Giants' offense has averaged 29 points in those three games.
Quote:
Ralph Vacchiano
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Odell Beckham averaged 12.8 yards per catch in the first eight weeks of the season. ... In the last three weeks, with better play from the O-line and Eli Manning, his average has jumped to 17.8 yards per catch.
Use that salary for the best young OL on the market. Play Kyle or a rookie next year. Do not pay a 16 million journeyman or Eli next year. The team is 6-21 with Eli, we could do that with a fit BBI poster. Eli taking another snap is a stupid waste of precious time and cap dollars.
This is all baffling to me. How could anyone be behind Eli playing next year? We are all well aware of the ultimate results of the last 27 games with Eli as the starting QB. How much worse would it be with a mobile and very cheap QB? Put Elis cap dollars towards the best under 30 FA lineman on the market. All Pro type player. Feed Barkley the ball and let the young QB make some plays with his legs. This would be much more interesting and a far greater long term upside for the franchise. Playing Eli next year would represent gross mismanagement of the franchise to me.
a FA next year? And why would he want to sign here? LOL.
For money. I expect nearly all free agents to largely go to whoever pays them the most. Players that already got that big second contract are the ones that take less to go somewhere to win. It is always about the money.
Those are the numbers that Ralph is posting on Twitter.
That's what the Giants/Gettleman/Mara etc... are going to be looking at.
And they're going to determine that he can play. And whether they decide to draft a QB this upcoming draft or next draft (after 2019), it's just going to make sense to them to keep Eli if he wants to finish out his contract.
They're do it out of a. not being able to find anything better, b. they'll see that the improvement on the o-line improved the play of everybody else and focus there, and c. probably out of loyalty.
People keep harping on his salary. Well the QB salaries in the NFL are ever changing, and Eli's contract isn't even all that unusual/out of the ordinary.
You have two options: Journeyman QB at 15-20 million, or Eli on one year 20 million dollar deal.
It's a no brainer for them.
I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or indifferent, but that's what's going to happen. Just like last year.
a FA next year? And why would he want to sign here? LOL.
For money. I expect nearly all free agents to largely go to whoever pays them the most. Players that already got that big second contract are the ones that take less to go somewhere to win. It is always about the money.
You do know a few things...
1. All pro under 30 OL probably wont leave their teams.
2. Other teams have more $$$$ than we do.
3. We stink
a FA next year? And why would he want to sign here? LOL.
For money. I expect nearly all free agents to largely go to whoever pays them the most. Players that already got that big second contract are the ones that take less to go somewhere to win. It is always about the money.
You do know a few things...
1. All pro under 30 OL probably wont leave their teams.
2. Other teams have more $$$$ than we do.
3. We stink
If we cut Eli we will have enough. All Pro under 30 will sign with whoever guarantees them the most dollars. Would rather have Eli or Clowney next year?
I'm hoping that somehow none of the players, coaches, or front office
That's what the Giants/Gettleman/Mara etc... are going to be looking at.
And they're going to determine that he can play. And whether they decide to draft a QB this upcoming draft or next draft (after 2019), it's just going to make sense to them to keep Eli if he wants to finish out his contract.
They're do it out of a. not being able to find anything better, b. they'll see that the improvement on the o-line improved the play of everybody else and focus there, and c. probably out of loyalty.
People keep harping on his salary. Well the QB salaries in the NFL are ever changing, and Eli's contract isn't even all that unusual/out of the ordinary.
You have two options: Journeyman QB at 15-20 million, or Eli on one year 20 million dollar deal.
It's a no brainer for them.
I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or indifferent, but that's what's going to happen. Just like last year.
We don't have 2 options. We do not have to pay a 16 million dollar journeyman.
RE: I'm hoping that somehow none of the players, coaches, or front office
If we cut Eli we will have enough. All Pro under 30 will sign with whoever guarantees them the most dollars. Would rather have Eli or Clowney next year?
I much rather have Clowney.... but you are just assuming teams wont offer him more money. And you sure aint shit giving Clowney 15-17 million a year either.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: What all-pro lineman is under 30 and
If we cut Eli we will have enough. All Pro under 30 will sign with whoever guarantees them the most dollars. Would rather have Eli or Clowney next year?
I much rather have Clowney.... but you are just assuming teams wont offer him more money. And you sure aint shit giving Clowney 15-17 million a year either.
We should cut Eli, try to move or cut Vernon and go after a guy like Clowney. I would rather have Clowney than pay for for Collins. How about Demarcus Lawrence? taking him away from Dallas could help with addition and subtraction.
RE: RE: Those are the numbers that Ralph is posting on Twitter.
That's what the Giants/Gettleman/Mara etc... are going to be looking at.
And they're going to determine that he can play. And whether they decide to draft a QB this upcoming draft or next draft (after 2019), it's just going to make sense to them to keep Eli if he wants to finish out his contract.
They're do it out of a. not being able to find anything better, b. they'll see that the improvement on the o-line improved the play of everybody else and focus there, and c. probably out of loyalty.
People keep harping on his salary. Well the QB salaries in the NFL are ever changing, and Eli's contract isn't even all that unusual/out of the ordinary.
You have two options: Journeyman QB at 15-20 million, or Eli on one year 20 million dollar deal.
It's a no brainer for them.
I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or indifferent, but that's what's going to happen. Just like last year.
We don't have 2 options. We do not have to pay a 16 million dollar journeyman.
They're just not going to throw out some 4th round project pick (Lauletta) week one, nor are they going to throw out their 1st round draft pick (if it happens to be a QB).
They are going to need a veteran both to start the season, and to mentor the young QB.
It's going to be Eli, barring a retirement or injury.
Trent Brown, Daryl Williams, Taylor Lewan, Ali Marpet, Sheldon Richardson, Frank CLark ect.
Kewan just signed a 5 year extension
Sheldon Richardson sucks balls
Frank Clark aint that good either
Ali Marpet is extended through 2023
Williams is coming off a major injury
So ummm.... none of these guys are remotely an option.
RE: RE: RE: Those are the numbers that Ralph is posting on Twitter.
That's what the Giants/Gettleman/Mara etc... are going to be looking at.
And they're going to determine that he can play. And whether they decide to draft a QB this upcoming draft or next draft (after 2019), it's just going to make sense to them to keep Eli if he wants to finish out his contract.
They're do it out of a. not being able to find anything better, b. they'll see that the improvement on the o-line improved the play of everybody else and focus there, and c. probably out of loyalty.
People keep harping on his salary. Well the QB salaries in the NFL are ever changing, and Eli's contract isn't even all that unusual/out of the ordinary.
You have two options: Journeyman QB at 15-20 million, or Eli on one year 20 million dollar deal.
It's a no brainer for them.
I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or indifferent, but that's what's going to happen. Just like last year.
We don't have 2 options. We do not have to pay a 16 million dollar journeyman.
They're just not going to throw out some 4th round project pick (Lauletta) week one, nor are they going to throw out their 1st round draft pick (if it happens to be a QB).
They are going to need a veteran both to start the season, and to mentor the young QB.
It's going to be Eli, barring a retirement or injury.
It is what it is.
I agree that is likely with Gettleman/Shurmur. No argument. I am saying that is fucking stupid for the organizationgiven the results of the last 27 games. Would rather cut Eli, play anyone and sign a young All Pro free agent on either line. I would rather them play a rookie or cheap second year guy.
Trent Brown, Daryl Williams, Taylor Lewan, Ali Marpet, Sheldon Richardson, Frank CLark ect.
Kewan just signed a 5 year extension
Sheldon Richardson sucks balls
Frank Clark aint that good either
Ali Marpet is extended through 2023
Williams is coming off a major injury
So ummm.... none of these guys are remotely an option.
Lewan*
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: What all-pro lineman is under 30 and
a FA next year? And why would he want to sign here? LOL.
For money. I expect nearly all free agents to largely go to whoever pays them the most. Players that already got that big second contract are the ones that take less to go somewhere to win. It is always about the money.
Spot on. Because your next play can be your last and teams will basically toss you away like a tissue.
of why it would be a good idea to actually EXTEND Eli beyond next season.
There's an at least average chance that's going to happen.
I shouldn't have doubted that you already have that path rationalized.
Everyone can get in line behind me. I have advocated that DG will look at the analytics that he is derided about eschewing and determine that Eli can still play. You don't replace franchise players because they are old. You replace them when they are no longer capable.
If we're talking about a hedge on Lauletta, then 23m is a bit overkill no? Below is a list of potential free agent QBs and current salaries. I have no problem foregoing the bloated top tier guys like Bridgewater or Tyrod in favor of the next rung of players. I'd have Shurmur identify some veterans in that tier that fit with idea that they are competing with Lauletta. You are hoping Lauletta can win the job and are looking at these guys as a hedge. There are also trade options out there as well, CJ Beathard is a player that should be available on a dirt cheap salary. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/quarterback/ - ( New Window )
Dropping from Eli Manning to Josh McCown just to free up 10 million or so dollars is not a good return on that money.
The salary cap is so flexible and fluid, they could free up that money anywhere if they needed it.
People act like Manning's contract is some boat anchor, but the truth is, it's not keeping them from doing anything really. I think people bring up his contract as a reason just because they're looking for any and every reason to dump the guy.
I don't get the fixation on his contract. He's making average, yes average, Quarterback money next year. He'll be the 13th highest paid QB next season.
Dropping from Eli Manning to Josh McCown just to free up 10 million or so dollars is not a good return on that money.
The salary cap is so flexible and fluid, they could free up that money anywhere if they needed it.
People act like Manning's contract is some boat anchor, but the truth is, it's not keeping them from doing anything really. I think people bring up his contract as a reason just because they're looking for any and every reason to dump the guy.
I don't get the fixation on his contract. He's making average, yes average, Quarterback money next year. He'll be the 13th highest paid QB next season. Link - ( New Window )
10M buys you a Matt Paradis, I'd take McCown and stud center over Eli next year. I'm not expecting us to hoist the Lombardi next year, any percieved downgrade is negligible. Focus on fixing the holes that can be fixed.
The FO handpicked the guy to develop, they did so at the expense of the previous years' 3rd round pick. At some point you have to play these guys, especially in a rebuild. I think year 2 is as good a time as any.
Dropping from Eli Manning to Josh McCown just to free up 10 million or so dollars is not a good return on that money.
The salary cap is so flexible and fluid, they could free up that money anywhere if they needed it.
People act like Manning's contract is some boat anchor, but the truth is, it's not keeping them from doing anything really. I think people bring up his contract as a reason just because they're looking for any and every reason to dump the guy.
I don't get the fixation on his contract. He's making average, yes average, Quarterback money next year. He'll be the 13th highest paid QB next season. Link - ( New Window )
Britt you make some really good points.
It's the reality of the situation. It's easy to see if you don't let emotions of what you want to happen get in the way. People accuse me of posting emotionally about it, but really, I think it's those that think he's going to get cut outright or traded that are posting emotionally, because honestly, those aren't very realistic scenarios given the logistics.
QB hell starts once you have an old, beloved, declining and overpaid QB on your roster. I think people are correct in their suggestion Eli might start next year, there is zero reason to believe at this point the results will be any different from the last 2 seasons. Why that is palatable to any fan of the NY Giants is crazy to me.
If we decide not to draft AND start a rook QB next year, give me Eli. Or, if they draft a QB and want Eli to mentor him for a year.
But it has to be a discounted price in the $8-10 million range. Both the organization and Eli have to realize where he is, what he's giving us, and that the team has needs that can be addressed with that money.
Otherwise, Eli will be making the choice.
His cap number doesn't justify a bridge QB or mentor QB for a team in rebuild. If we were SB contenders? Sure. But when you dig into it, it makes zero sense to overpay to that extent for a player that does absolutely nothing to bring you closer to a championship. You are better off signing a backup type QB to a 3-6m/yr deal, letting him compete with Lauletta and spending the difference on the best available OL free agent. We're talking about a difference of 10-15m to play with on a team with holes everywhere.
I've seen a lot of the keep Eli while we fix this or that until we can draft a franchise guy. Well...we only have so much cap room and so many draft picks. How are we plugging these holes? OL and Edge Rusher are the two most in demand positions. You have to pick that up from somewhere and Eli, being in the last year of his deal, is the biggest no brainer on the roster.
Is that a joke?! Good football by what metric?
The team is 3-8. They were 3-13 last year (and Eli was 3-12). Eli continues to mismanage the play clock like a rookie instead of a 15 year veteran (either by burning timeouts or taking delay of game penalties). Are you so blinded by your undying affection for Eli that you're incapable of recognizing that he's every bit part of the problem as about half a dozen (or more) other factors with this team?
The 2nd highest paid player in NFL history is very likely going to finish this season with a career W/L record below .500 and fewer than 20 passing TDs for the 2nd consecutive year, but let's trot him out there for another season at 38 years old and a cap number that is commensurate with a franchise QB while he continues to play at a journeyman game manager level.
If this report is in any way true, this franchise is even more misbegotten than they appeared to be already.
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24m24 minutes ago
More Ralph Vacchiano Retweeted Ralph Vacchiano
Eli Manning over the last three weeks:
Completion percentage: 72.1 (62 of 86)
Passing yards: 716
Touchdowns: 6
Interceptions: 1
Passer rating: 115.2
And the Giants' offense has averaged 29 points in those three games.
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34m34 minutes ago
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Odell Beckham averaged 12.8 yards per catch in the first eight weeks of the season. ... In the last three weeks, with better play from the O-line and Eli Manning, his average has jumped to 17.8 yards per catch.
And they're going to determine that he can play. And whether they decide to draft a QB this upcoming draft or next draft (after 2019), it's just going to make sense to them to keep Eli if he wants to finish out his contract.
They're do it out of a. not being able to find anything better, b. they'll see that the improvement on the o-line improved the play of everybody else and focus there, and c. probably out of loyalty.
People keep harping on his salary. Well the QB salaries in the NFL are ever changing, and Eli's contract isn't even all that unusual/out of the ordinary.
You have two options: Journeyman QB at 15-20 million, or Eli on one year 20 million dollar deal.
It's a no brainer for them.
I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or indifferent, but that's what's going to happen. Just like last year.
Quote:
a FA next year? And why would he want to sign here? LOL.
For money. I expect nearly all free agents to largely go to whoever pays them the most. Players that already got that big second contract are the ones that take less to go somewhere to win. It is always about the money.
You do know a few things...
1. All pro under 30 OL probably wont leave their teams.
2. Other teams have more $$$$ than we do.
3. We stink
Quote:
In comment 14197063 dep026 said:
Quote:
a FA next year? And why would he want to sign here? LOL.
For money. I expect nearly all free agents to largely go to whoever pays them the most. Players that already got that big second contract are the ones that take less to go somewhere to win. It is always about the money.
You do know a few things...
1. All pro under 30 OL probably wont leave their teams.
2. Other teams have more $$$$ than we do.
3. We stink
One stat matters this year: 3-8. One stat mattered last year: 3-13.
And they're going to determine that he can play. And whether they decide to draft a QB this upcoming draft or next draft (after 2019), it's just going to make sense to them to keep Eli if he wants to finish out his contract.
They're do it out of a. not being able to find anything better, b. they'll see that the improvement on the o-line improved the play of everybody else and focus there, and c. probably out of loyalty.
People keep harping on his salary. Well the QB salaries in the NFL are ever changing, and Eli's contract isn't even all that unusual/out of the ordinary.
You have two options: Journeyman QB at 15-20 million, or Eli on one year 20 million dollar deal.
It's a no brainer for them.
I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or indifferent, but that's what's going to happen. Just like last year.
One stat matters this year: 3-8. One stat mattered last year: 3-13.
I much rather have Clowney.... but you are just assuming teams wont offer him more money. And you sure aint shit giving Clowney 15-17 million a year either.
Quote:
If we cut Eli we will have enough. All Pro under 30 will sign with whoever guarantees them the most dollars. Would rather have Eli or Clowney next year?
I much rather have Clowney.... but you are just assuming teams wont offer him more money. And you sure aint shit giving Clowney 15-17 million a year either.
Quote:
That's what the Giants/Gettleman/Mara etc... are going to be looking at.
And they're going to determine that he can play. And whether they decide to draft a QB this upcoming draft or next draft (after 2019), it's just going to make sense to them to keep Eli if he wants to finish out his contract.
They're do it out of a. not being able to find anything better, b. they'll see that the improvement on the o-line improved the play of everybody else and focus there, and c. probably out of loyalty.
People keep harping on his salary. Well the QB salaries in the NFL are ever changing, and Eli's contract isn't even all that unusual/out of the ordinary.
You have two options: Journeyman QB at 15-20 million, or Eli on one year 20 million dollar deal.
It's a no brainer for them.
I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or indifferent, but that's what's going to happen. Just like last year.
We don't have 2 options. We do not have to pay a 16 million dollar journeyman.
They're just not going to throw out some 4th round project pick (Lauletta) week one, nor are they going to throw out their 1st round draft pick (if it happens to be a QB).
They are going to need a veteran both to start the season, and to mentor the young QB.
It's going to be Eli, barring a retirement or injury.
It is what it is.
Kewan just signed a 5 year extension
Sheldon Richardson sucks balls
Frank Clark aint that good either
Ali Marpet is extended through 2023
Williams is coming off a major injury
So ummm.... none of these guys are remotely an option.
Quote:
In comment 14197081 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
That's what the Giants/Gettleman/Mara etc... are going to be looking at.
And they're going to determine that he can play. And whether they decide to draft a QB this upcoming draft or next draft (after 2019), it's just going to make sense to them to keep Eli if he wants to finish out his contract.
They're do it out of a. not being able to find anything better, b. they'll see that the improvement on the o-line improved the play of everybody else and focus there, and c. probably out of loyalty.
People keep harping on his salary. Well the QB salaries in the NFL are ever changing, and Eli's contract isn't even all that unusual/out of the ordinary.
You have two options: Journeyman QB at 15-20 million, or Eli on one year 20 million dollar deal.
It's a no brainer for them.
I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or indifferent, but that's what's going to happen. Just like last year.
We don't have 2 options. We do not have to pay a 16 million dollar journeyman.
They're just not going to throw out some 4th round project pick (Lauletta) week one, nor are they going to throw out their 1st round draft pick (if it happens to be a QB).
They are going to need a veteran both to start the season, and to mentor the young QB.
It's going to be Eli, barring a retirement or injury.
It is what it is.
Quote:
Trent Brown, Daryl Williams, Taylor Lewan, Ali Marpet, Sheldon Richardson, Frank CLark ect.
Kewan just signed a 5 year extension
Sheldon Richardson sucks balls
Frank Clark aint that good either
Ali Marpet is extended through 2023
Williams is coming off a major injury
So ummm.... none of these guys are remotely an option.
Lewan*
he's a 4-3 DE. Really bad fit here.
Quote:
a FA next year? And why would he want to sign here? LOL.
For money. I expect nearly all free agents to largely go to whoever pays them the most. Players that already got that big second contract are the ones that take less to go somewhere to win. It is always about the money.
Spot on. Because your next play can be your last and teams will basically toss you away like a tissue.
Money drives it mostly.............
Link - ( New Window )
There's an at least average chance that's going to happen.
Quote:
of why it would be a good idea to actually EXTEND Eli beyond next season.
There's an at least average chance that's going to happen.
I shouldn't have doubted that you already have that path rationalized.
Quote:
of why it would be a good idea to actually EXTEND Eli beyond next season.
There's an at least average chance that's going to happen.
QBFL
Not sure.
Which we're already enduring with OV.
If an elite player like Mack becomes available, I'm fine going after him. Otherwise, it's better to have 4 $4M players than 1 $16M player.
Quote:
In comment 14197159 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
of why it would be a good idea to actually EXTEND Eli beyond next season.
There's an at least average chance that's going to happen.
I shouldn't have doubted that you already have that path rationalized.
Everyone can get in line behind me. I have advocated that DG will look at the analytics that he is derided about eschewing and determine that Eli can still play. You don't replace franchise players because they are old. You replace them when they are no longer capable.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/quarterback/ - ( New Window )
The salary cap is so flexible and fluid, they could free up that money anywhere if they needed it.
People act like Manning's contract is some boat anchor, but the truth is, it's not keeping them from doing anything really. I think people bring up his contract as a reason just because they're looking for any and every reason to dump the guy.
I don't get the fixation on his contract. He's making average, yes average, Quarterback money next year. He'll be the 13th highest paid QB next season.
Link - ( New Window )
The salary cap is so flexible and fluid, they could free up that money anywhere if they needed it.
People act like Manning's contract is some boat anchor, but the truth is, it's not keeping them from doing anything really. I think people bring up his contract as a reason just because they're looking for any and every reason to dump the guy.
I don't get the fixation on his contract. He's making average, yes average, Quarterback money next year. He'll be the 13th highest paid QB next season. Link - ( New Window )
Britt you make some really good points.
Exactly. It's just not going to happen.
Quote:
Dropping from Eli Manning to Josh McCown just to free up 10 million or so dollars is not a good return on that money.
The salary cap is so flexible and fluid, they could free up that money anywhere if they needed it.
People act like Manning's contract is some boat anchor, but the truth is, it's not keeping them from doing anything really. I think people bring up his contract as a reason just because they're looking for any and every reason to dump the guy.
I don't get the fixation on his contract. He's making average, yes average, Quarterback money next year. He'll be the 13th highest paid QB next season. Link - ( New Window )
Britt you make some really good points.
It's the reality of the situation. It's easy to see if you don't let emotions of what you want to happen get in the way. People accuse me of posting emotionally about it, but really, I think it's those that think he's going to get cut outright or traded that are posting emotionally, because honestly, those aren't very realistic scenarios given the logistics.