Eli Manning over the last three weeks:
Completion percentage: 72.1 (62 of 86)
Passing yards: 716
Touchdowns: 6
Interceptions: 1
Passer rating: 115.2
And the Giants' offense has averaged 29 points in those three games.
Eli last 3 games - (
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I don't need to see what I already know is an all-time franchise great having his legacy diminished in front of our eyes.
I don't need to see him disrespected as the Johnny Come Lately's throw him under the bus to protect the likes of Odell Beckham.
I'm hoping to be shocked with announcement of his retirement but I'm fearing a long and drawn out exit with a sub .500 record and the piling on from people who never liked him to begin with.
The team is 3-8. They were 3-13 last year. They suck.
I don't need to see what I already know is an all-time franchise great having his legacy diminished in front of our eyes.
I don't need to see him disrespected as the Johnny Come Lately's throw him under the bus to protect the likes of Odell Beckham.
I'm hoping to be shocked with announcement of his retirement but I'm fearing a long and drawn out exit with a sub .500 record and the piling on from people who never liked him to begin with.
The real issue with our team right now is our lack of pass rush and the inability to get off the field on 3rd down.
Eli is a solid QB who will always need an O Line and a Running game which have improved the last 3 weeks. If we had a semblance of a defense and a pass rush we might actually be a decent team.
Maybe that means he'd have to restructure his deal on his final year.
With the weapons around him he could go out on top. Elway never got over the top w/o a running game and Payton was not even able to make the throws after his neck injury and he did it.
He doesn't have to be a running QB he has to have well designed plays that get the ball to Barkley and Beckham in space.
238 yards per game is some kind of benchmark these days in a league that is booming with offense...?
If this is what the team is going to use as 'evidence' that Eli can still play (and another year older next year might I add), than this franchise is more fucked than they have appeared to be every Sunday for the past two years straight.
at a certain point it starts to feel like the tail is wagging dog.
We've won three games this year, and in two of those games the ball barely touched the turf. We slipped by.
What's that tell you?
238 yards per game is some kind of benchmark these days in a league that is booming with offense...?
If this is what the team is going to use as 'evidence' that Eli can still play (and another year older next year might I add), than this franchise is more fucked than they have appeared to be every Sunday for the past two years straight.
I agree with a lot of this. But its also nice seeing him have success even against lesser opponents. Lets see what he does this week.
I have never disliked a Giants team this much in 33 years. I really wish Mara would burn it down and start over from scratch.
True......also the team hasn't appeared to quit.
On the flip side, he's been atrocious with clock management, and took longer than I expected to realize Eli under center is his best spot.
Then it all went to shit..I still can't believe we lost that damn game.
In any event, a new C and RT should do wonders for us next season.
He should be leading NYG into the future.
LongLive#10 is that you. Did you make a new account to come out and play?
As far as I can tell, there is no evidence to the contrary.
The team is 3-8. They were 3-13 last year. They suck.
this x a million.
they suck- that is all that matters.
Go away troll.
We've won three games this year, and in two of those games the ball barely touched the turf. We slipped by.
What's that tell you?
That our defense is trash?
ryanmkeane : 1:06 pm : link : reply
with Shurmur is that the offense actually has life this year, it is certainly better in scheme and play calling.
I call that barely breathing scoring all of 3 points in the second half in a must game...
jsuds : 1:02 pm : link : reply
that can give him 3-4 sec instead of 2-3 sec for protection.
He will have to be playing in his 40's....
1) Shurmur came with a reputation for elevating QB play. He made Case Keenum a ton of money, for God's sake. Shurmur actually is succeeding with Eli despite abysmal pass blocking most of the season. Eli is playing better. He's not perfect, but no quarterback is.
2) Eli seems to be in physical decline, but at his age and with the mileage on his body, that's to be expected. He clearly doesn't throw the deep ball as well as he used to (though we have no way of knowing if he's got an injury affecting his arm strength) and doesn't throw a fast, tight spiral. Tight spirals were never really his thing, though. He can still play. Hard to know what his current ceiling is. It is time to look for his successor, but that doesn't mean there's an emergency at QB. Some patience is in order. Just not TOO much patience.
3) The defense has been a bigger problem in recent weeks than the offense. It was to be expected that the team would struggle early in the season. There's a new offense, a new defense, a new coaching staff, a new GM and a huge roster turnover. If Shurmur is a competent coach, it would also be expected that the team show improvement in the second half. I think we're seeing the improvement on offense, though not as much improvement as we could have expected -- see last week's 2nd half disaster. However the defense seems to be regressing and is truly bad now. The D's inability to get off the field on 3rd and long last week sucked the life out of the whole team.
4) Eli's the face of the franchise, and he's getting paid a lot of money to take this heat, but some of that heat is misplaced. I don't think he's the problem. The issue is, he may not be part of the solution. Like I said, some patience is in order -- just not TOO much patience.
1) Shurmur came with a reputation for elevating QB play. He made Case Keenum a ton of money, for God's sake. Shurmur actually is succeeding with Eli despite abysmal pass blocking most of the season. Eli is playing better. He's not perfect, but no quarterback is.
2) Eli seems to be in physical decline, but at his age and with the mileage on his body, that's to be expected. He clearly doesn't throw the deep ball as well as he used to (though we have no way of knowing if he's got an injury affecting his arm strength) and doesn't throw a fast, tight spiral. Tight spirals were never really his thing, though. He can still play. Hard to know what his current ceiling is. It is time to look for his successor, but that doesn't mean there's an emergency at QB. Some patience is in order. Just not TOO much patience.
3) The defense has been a bigger problem in recent weeks than the offense. It was to be expected that the team would struggle early in the season. There's a new offense, a new defense, a new coaching staff, a new GM and a huge roster turnover. If Shurmur is a competent coach, it would also be expected that the team show improvement in the second half. I think we're seeing the improvement on offense, though not as much improvement as we could have expected -- see last week's 2nd half disaster. However the defense seems to be regressing and is truly bad now. The D's inability to get off the field on 3rd and long last week sucked the life out of the whole team.
4) Eli's the face of the franchise, and he's getting paid a lot of money to take this heat, but some of that heat is misplaced. I don't think he's the problem. The issue is, he may not be part of the solution. Like I said, some patience is in order -- just not TOO much patience.
Rational and reasonable post.
- The Giants go anywhere from 5-11 to 9-7 and miss the playoffs
- Shurmur is put on notice for 2020; Gettleman is 1 year closer to 70, and the only QBs we have under contract are Lauletta and Tanney
Shitty team makes shitty decisions and stays shitty.
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I was hoping to click on this link and find the trade details that included OBJ to whichever suitor in exchange for 2 quuality, young offensive lineman, C G T, would not matter.
Go away troll.
Make the case, give me 2 quality young Dave Diehl type lineman in exchange for OB. serviceable WRs alla Toomer/Smith types and watch this offense hum, with no ineruptions, no in game quoto stress etc, just functional football.
But if you watch the breakdowns of his throws closely I think you have to give a lot of credit to Shurmur as well. Lots of relatively easy throws to wide open targets, not too many throws downfield into coverage. I'd imagine this is how Shurmur made Keenum, etc. look so good.
Not at all meant to bash Eli, who still has to make the reads/throws, but I think this is what some us hoped for when Shurmur was hired.
65-88 74%
771 yards, 9 TDs, I INT
Philip Rivers
74-98 75%
883 yards, 7 Tds, 3 INTs
Kirk Cousins
77-106 72%
620 yards, 6 Tds, 3 INTs
They are good numbers. But it doesn't really have much bearing in today's game, because they are still average numbers overall. Sure, if you measure Eli's stats this year versus the rest of his career, you like what you see. When you measure his stats this year vs other NFL quarterback stats this year, you realize he's middle of the pack, and that's not all that impressive.
The Giants need to fix one area, it's scoring efficiency. Yes, they've done better this year than recent years. But a closer dive into the numbers, they are ranked 28th in red zone TD scoring efficiency. They are middle of the pack in red zone scoring ATTEMPTS per game (14th). They are 24th in first downs per play. They are 18th in points per play. They are 24th in TDs per game. They are 22nd in points per game.
In other words, they are still behind the curve offensively, and need to greatly improve their efficiency. A lot of that is on the passing game.
And enough with the playing better crap. We beat the two worst teams in football.
Patience? Guys. We're close to a full decade of shit football.
What planet are some of you on?
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In comment 14197154 Gay Ramone said:
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I was hoping to click on this link and find the trade details that included OBJ to whichever suitor in exchange for 2 quuality, young offensive lineman, C G T, would not matter.
Go away troll.
Make the case, give me 2 quality young Dave Diehl type lineman in exchange for OB. serviceable WRs alla Toomer/Smith types and watch this offense hum, with no ineruptions, no in game quoto stress etc, just functional football.
Stop pretending. You got banned and created this new account to come to degrade people and talk bullshit.
Go away and never return.
Rodgers is a top QB and look at them.
And enough with the playing better crap. We beat the two worst teams in football.
Patience? Guys. We're close to a full decade of shit football.
What planet are some of you on?
That's a good point. Everyone talks about how terrible "the 70s" were and how we may be "on the cusp of beginning a 70s-like spiral". Well, how about the 2010s? Hasn't it already happened? Aside from 2011 we've already had an awful decade and are pretty much assured we won't win anything until at least 2020. But, that's the thing, we've already been through an awful decade and I'd say it's still likely we are AT THE END of an awful run. We shook up the whole organization just this year and the jury is still out on Gettleman and Shurmur. It's quite possible that "Shurmur's QB" (the one we pick in the 1st round in either 2019 and 2020) will be the beginning of a great run in the 2020s. In other words. the 2020s will be to the 80s and 2000s as the 2010s are to the 1970s and 1990s. Does that make sense? The cycle seems to be trending that way. We're always terrible for one decade and then great the next. So 2020s will be our decade based on what we've experienced in the 2010s.
Eli might save some face this second half of the season. He can earn a lot of cache if he and this offense average close to 30 ppg over these next five. I’ll leave it at that.
No pass rush. Linebackers who can't stop the run or cover my grandmother (she's dead by the way...). A free safety where free means yards for the opponents because he can't tackle. A talented but limited strong safety. Not much at corner. And an all new system this season.
And that's on top of an OL that is still a long way from where it needs to be and not a lot at TE, either.
This season is only the beginning of a complete rebuild.
This team is more like an expansion team after Reese and Ross spent a decade completely ruining it. And it won't be turned around in one year or two. Blaming an obviously declining Eli or DG or Shurmur for the sorry state of this roster is simply stupid beyond belief.
The team is 3-8. They were 3-13 last year. They suck.
Isn't W-L a stat?
He wasn't good enough on Sunday to overcome one, and that was one defense that had not one healthy cornerback.
Haha
Until we get athletes at LB and S, and get guys that can get constant pressure, we won't be any good no matter how much the OL improves.
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with Shurmur is that the offense actually has life this year, it is certainly better in scheme and play calling. If he learns how to manage a fucking clock we might have something.
True......also the team hasn't appeared to quit.
On the flip side, he's been atrocious with clock management, and took longer than I expected to realize Eli under center is his best spot.
That “life” you’re seeing in this offense is pretty much due to one player-SB, that and Beckham back in the lineup, it sure isn’t due to some great scheming from Shurmur, who seems overwhelmed.
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with Shurmur is that the offense actually has life this year, it is certainly better in scheme and play calling. If he learns how to manage a fucking clock we might have something.
True......also the team hasn't appeared to quit.
On the flip side, he's been atrocious with clock management, and took longer than I expected to realize Eli under center is his best spot.
That “life” you’re seeing in this offense is pretty much due to one player-SB, that and Beckham back in the lineup, it sure isn’t due to some great scheming from Shurmur, who seems overwhelmed.
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to overcome two defenses.
He wasn't good enough on Sunday to overcome one, and that was one defense that had not one healthy cornerback.
Well, he did overcome that one enough to give his team a two score lead and then he overcame them enough to bring them into a tie with almost no time left on the clock. That's not nothing.
Unfortunately, since the NFL rounds down with half wins, the Giants got nothing for their half effort.
The real issue with our team right now is our lack of pass rush and the inability to get off the field on 3rd down.
Eli is a solid QB who will always need an O Line and a Running game which have improved the last 3 weeks. If we had a semblance of a defense and a pass rush we might actually be a decent team.
And one of the reasons we can’t get off the field is teams are gains too much yardage on first down imo
If you go into a draft with that idea to start with, you will almost always talk yourself out of drafting someone.
It doesn't take a genius to draft John Elway or Peyton Manning. Not much scouting is needed for them.
If the Giants are going to wait for one of those, there will never be anyone good enough.
Fans love their lifetime contracts.
Maybe that means he'd have to restructure his deal on his final year.
With the weapons around him he could go out on top. Elway never got over the top w/o a running game and Payton was not even able to make the throws after his neck injury and he did it.
He doesn't have to be a running QB he has to have well designed plays that get the ball to Barkley and Beckham in space.
The problem I have with this philosophy is every qb can be great with perfect protection and terrific offensive weapons. Pay a 3rd round QB a few hundred thousand for that not a 20 million dollar a year QB
Quote:The problem I have with this philosophy is every qb can be great with perfect protection and terrific offensive weapons. Pay a 3rd round QB a few hundred thousand for that not a 20 million dollar a year QB [/quote]
Hundreds of QBs have proven that opinion is completely wrong.
At worst, he's a league average QB, but everyone talks about him like he's one of the worst starting QBs in the league and needs to be replaced yesterday.
If the Giants could only give him a league average running game, offensive line and defense, he might be able to give one last FU to his critics (which is basically everyone at this point), but they've failed to do that for six years running and at this point, it's probably too late.
Maybe that means he'd have to restructure his deal on his final year.
With the weapons around him he could go out on top. Elway never got over the top w/o a running game and Payton was not even able to make the throws after his neck injury and he did it.
He doesn't have to be a running QB he has to have well designed plays that get the ball to Barkley and Beckham in space.
“If we give Eli a line, and a running game, and weapons and a defense we can win!”
We’ve been saying this for years, and when you start listing scenarios that would make half the leagues backups look serviceable - maybe it’s time to move in a different direction.
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that can give him 3-4 sec instead of 2-3 sec for protection.
Maybe that means he'd have to restructure his deal on his final year.
With the weapons around him he could go out on top. Elway never got over the top w/o a running game and Payton was not even able to make the throws after his neck injury and he did it.
He doesn't have to be a running QB he has to have well designed plays that get the ball to Barkley and Beckham in space.
“If we give Eli a line, and a running game, and weapons and a defense we can win!”
We’ve been saying this for years, and when you start listing scenarios that would make half the leagues backups look serviceable - maybe it’s time to move in a different direction.
Forget backups, which starting QBs in this league succeed without at least three of those four things?
Yep, we fans have been pretty damn patient and haven't been rewarded much. Not only is the team terrible, they're not enjoyable to watch. You watch other teams and see crisp execution and guys running fast and explosive, exciting plays. You watch the Giants and it's like eating wheat paste. And somehow management always thinks they're a free agent away from contending. The team has been bad for a long-ass time.
But every time they change head coaches they kind of have to start over again. They kind of had to start over when they went from Coughlin to McAdoo. They cleaned house and went from McAdoo to Shurmur. That's not a recipe for short-term winning.
I grew up in the 70s lean years and remember them too damn well. Yes, this feels like the 70s. But the problem is, Shurmur could be Bill Parcells (who needed that second year to find his footing) or he could be Bill Arnsparger (good coordinator, built up a great unit on one side of the ball, not a good HC). We won't know for another year.
If Shurmur washes out as HC, then it's really going to feel like the 70s.
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In comment 14197102 jsuds said:
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that can give him 3-4 sec instead of 2-3 sec for protection.
Maybe that means he'd have to restructure his deal on his final year.
With the weapons around him he could go out on top. Elway never got over the top w/o a running game and Payton was not even able to make the throws after his neck injury and he did it.
He doesn't have to be a running QB he has to have well designed plays that get the ball to Barkley and Beckham in space.
“If we give Eli a line, and a running game, and weapons and a defense we can win!”
We’ve been saying this for years, and when you start listing scenarios that would make half the leagues backups look serviceable - maybe it’s time to move in a different direction.
Forget backups, which starting QBs in this league succeed without at least three of those four things?
The ones on Madden 2019, which is the knowledge base for most of BBI.
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In comment 14197102 jsuds said:
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that can give him 3-4 sec instead of 2-3 sec for protection.
Maybe that means he'd have to restructure his deal on his final year.
With the weapons around him he could go out on top. Elway never got over the top w/o a running game and Payton was not even able to make the throws after his neck injury and he did it.
He doesn't have to be a running QB he has to have well designed plays that get the ball to Barkley and Beckham in space.
“If we give Eli a line, and a running game, and weapons and a defense we can win!”
We’ve been saying this for years, and when you start listing scenarios that would make half the leagues backups look serviceable - maybe it’s time to move in a different direction.
Forget backups, which starting QBs in this league succeed without at least three of those four things?
How many QBs have teams that are very good at 3 of the 4? Like 6? 10? There’s more than 10 teams not going 3-13.
The QB is often the highest paid player on the team and has the ball in his hand literally every play. At some point they have to elevate the team around them, it’s not like we have a rookie QB behind center.
I grew up in the 70s lean years and remember them too damn well. Yes, this feels like the 70s. But the problem is, Shurmur could be Bill Parcells (who needed that second year to find his footing) or he could be Bill Arnsparger (good coordinator, built up a great unit on one side of the ball, not a good HC). We won't know for another year.
If Shurmur washes out as HC, then it's really going to feel like the 70s.
I don't mean to single you out since this gets mentioned a lot, but there aren't any parallels between Shurmur and Parcells.
Parcells was a first year head coach, a coordinator elevated to HC when his coach bolted. Early on he struggled, going with Brunner over Simms, only to reverse his decision and have Simms get injured early on. As the season goes on, he loses both his parents. This while being about a dozen years younger than Shurmur is.
Shurmur is in his third season as a head coach. He's got an abysmal record. He assembled an unimpressive staff. The results thus far are consistent with what the rest of his career would have projected. The chances of him 'settling in' and becoming a good coach are slim to none.
That's what makes preaching patience so difficult. Even if Eli isn't bad right now, he's not very good, and he's only getting worse (age). Gettleman hasn't had a good start, and he's no spring chicken either. And Shurmur's shown nothing to support having confidence in him. A massive rebuild of the Giants is needed, and they refuse to admit it.
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In comment 14197522 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 14197102 jsuds said:
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that can give him 3-4 sec instead of 2-3 sec for protection.
Maybe that means he'd have to restructure his deal on his final year.
With the weapons around him he could go out on top. Elway never got over the top w/o a running game and Payton was not even able to make the throws after his neck injury and he did it.
He doesn't have to be a running QB he has to have well designed plays that get the ball to Barkley and Beckham in space.
“If we give Eli a line, and a running game, and weapons and a defense we can win!”
We’ve been saying this for years, and when you start listing scenarios that would make half the leagues backups look serviceable - maybe it’s time to move in a different direction.
Forget backups, which starting QBs in this league succeed without at least three of those four things?
How many QBs have teams that are very good at 3 of the 4? Like 6? 10? There’s more than 10 teams not going 3-13.
The QB is often the highest paid player on the team and has the ball in his hand literally every play. At some point they have to elevate the team around them, it’s not like we have a rookie QB behind center.
At some point, people have to temper their expectations. Exhibit A is Rodgers who is the highest paid QB with expectations that he should elevate the team around him. Yet, he has his team with 1 whole win over the Giants' record. I'm not saying Aaron is trash. But people have routinely for years now, claimed that he is the best QB they have seen. Yet, even the great ones can't do it by themselves. *Gasp* It is shocking to contemplate that the game of football is a team sport.
He's now 35 years old. This is what normal, non-Brady career paths look like.
I tried listening to that but the homerism was completely over the top.
He's now 35 years old. This is what normal, non-Brady career paths look like.
35 years old and with a roster with a lot less weapons than Eli. Adams is great, but after that what else? He doesn’t have a Sheppard or a Barkley. He’s also playing on a bad knee.
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around him for years.
He's now 35 years old. This is what normal, non-Brady career paths look like.
35 years old and with a roster with a lot less weapons than Eli. Adams is great, but after that what else? He doesn’t have a Sheppard or a Barkley. He’s also playing on a bad knee.
He has two premium tackles and Aaron Jones is pretty good too.
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around him for years.
He's now 35 years old. This is what normal, non-Brady career paths look like.
35 years old and with a roster with a lot less weapons than Eli. Adams is great, but after that what else? He doesn’t have a Sheppard or a Barkley. He’s also playing on a bad knee.
And he has had the luxury of a single offensive system. Yet, only has a single SB to show for it. I just used him as an example not to trash him, but to show that even the great Aaron can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Yet, BBI wants/expects Eli to do so.
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In comment 14198067 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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around him for years.
He's now 35 years old. This is what normal, non-Brady career paths look like.
35 years old and with a roster with a lot less weapons than Eli. Adams is great, but after that what else? He doesn’t have a Sheppard or a Barkley. He’s also playing on a bad knee.
And he has had the luxury of a single offensive system. Yet, only has a single SB to show for it. I just used him as an example not to trash him, but to show that even the great Aaron can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Yet, BBI wants/expects Eli to do so.
It's pretty unfair to say he hasn't made chicken salad out of chicken shit. He has carried that organization for years. McCarthy is average. W hen was the last time you heard "Packers & elite defense" in the same sentence?Ted Thompson was known as an excellent GM but struggled towards the end of his tenure. There is a reason they just hired the new GM, turned over a lot of the roster and will have a new HC next season.
Rodgers is another example that in the NFL one player can't win games even as great as Rodgers is. When it's explained that Manning needs players around him it is called an excuse. When it's shown that Rodgers needs components around him it becomes a legitimate reason. Now I'd say Rodgers needs less components around him to succeed at a championship level because of his ridiculous physical ability.
Manning is older, beaten up and doesn't make the plays he used to as much. It's the life of an athlete, but he is still a capable qb in a stable situation.
I'd argue a stable situation is an requirement for a qb if you want championships.
Component
Like in 2011 the giants defense for three quarters or more of the regular season were a bad unit. Come playoff time they were playing as a top unit.
Manning needed a good defense, just as the giants defense needed a good offense to beat the playoff teams.
Team sport.
Like in 2011 the giants defense for three quarters or more of the regular season were a bad unit. Come playoff time they were playing as a top unit.
Manning needed a good defense, just as the giants defense needed a good offense to beat the playoff teams.
Team sport.
And just like our two championship runs, the margin for error in missing the playoffs was razor thin for them, too.
If Desean Jackson doesn't return that punt against us, Green Bay doesn't even make the playoffs that year.
In 07 can you imagine the giants needing to beat the patriots in the final regular season game to make it into the playoffs? Thank goodness they didn't, but any other game the giants won that year (goal line stand week 3) goes a different way that would have been the scenario against NE week 17. Now, I do understand the ball can bounce both ways.
Imagine being this delusional. LOL.
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We do need a strategy for the future at QB, no doubt, but this season and next we have many other issues. The stats show that Eli is playing as well as anyone.
Imagine being this delusional. LOL.
No, and there are much worse on here.