Bleacher Report just posted an article by Brent Sobleski about each teams worst offseason move. He has the Giants worst move as taking Barkley over one of the QB prospects in the draft.
While this may have been true prior to the draft, I don't agree in hindsight. Barkley was a slam dunk special player while the options at QB were all roles of the dice.
I would think our worst mistake would be signing Omeh who worked out so poorly we already ate his bonus and cut him.
Thoughts?
The other signings some people debated the cost, the fit. the quality of the player etc. But with Stewart it was so obvious from the minute the contract was signed.
Knowing we were toast and we began to speculate on the top players in the Spring Draft. Sy'56 came right out and said on this board that the top player coming out in the draft is Saquon Barkley... and I absolutely agree with him.
Yes. But I’m fine with DG. Shurmur on the other hand is about as inspiring as man tits.
Solder has been fine, even good, lately. Omahea or whatever his name was was shit tried twice and Ogletree is a limited cover LB but solder can help this ol going forward.
Omameh to play RG and Flowers RT.
That right there derailed the entire beginning to our season.
The Rams had to be floored when that offer was presented in exchange for taking his contract. More than likely they all looked at each other and said, "Really? Let's make this deal before Gettleman changes his mind!"
All you have to know if this was a good deal is ask whether you would have given him the exact deal he is on if he were on the open market as a free agent.
If the answer is "No," then to give up picks for him makes it worse when you are a team in need as many cost controlled players as possible on a team that is supposedly "rebuilding" (or were they?). If he can't give you effective play, what is he bringing to your team to compensate other than being a peer mentor at his current cap number?
Ogletree is showing exactly why he was made available by the Rams.
Omahmeh just sucked donkey balls.
Put the $10M plus what they gave Omahmah into a starting RG who was actually capable of playing football. Use the 4th round pick on Tim Settle, or Avonte Maddox, or Maurice Hurst, or any of a number of players who could have helped a defense that's starting like 4 or 5 street free agents. Would they have more wins right now? who knows, but they'd be in better shape.
- Solder was a massive overpay. He's been better recently thankfully.
- Omameh... sucks
- Stewart sucks
- Lattimer was a non factor
- Kareem Martin is a non factor
- The Snacks/Apple trades still bother me
Curtis Riley might be our best offseason signing...
Ogletree still has good games. His coverage blows, but he does make good plays, just not enough.
I think Solder had a bad neck and it was really limiting him, but oddly enough, as Hernandez has gotten better and Brown took over RG, Solder has been pretty good.
Our biggest miss was Omameh. We just replaced him with a waiver add and was playing better than him after being on the team for 3/4 days.
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I don’t agree on DG, he has turned over a great deal of the roster and this team may be worse than last year, nor has he acquired draft picks or cap space to improve this team markedly in the future. Last year they had the excuse of Beckham being out, no excuse this year.
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Yes. But I’m fine with DG. Shurmur on the other hand is about as inspiring as man tits.
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I don’t agree on DG, he has turned over a great deal of the roster and this team may be worse than last year, nor has he acquired draft picks or cap space to improve this team markedly in the future. Last year they had the excuse of Beckham being out, no excuse this year.
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Yes. But I’m fine with DG. Shurmur on the other hand is about as inspiring as man tits.
Omameh was a bad sign, but that mistake was made at a fraction of what it has and will cost the team for signing Solder.
As for TC, he may have been better than Reese or DG, but what's he done in JAX ?
Knowing we were toast and we began to speculate on the top players in the Spring Draft. Sy'56 came right out and said on this board that the top player coming out in the draft is Saquon Barkley... and I absolutely agree with him.
I love sy, but he wasn't exactly sticking his neck out with that take. It was pretty commonly known that Barkley was the best player and surest thing.
- Solder was a massive overpay. He's been better recently thankfully.
- Omameh... sucks
- Stewart sucks
- Lattimer was a non factor
- Kareem Martin is a non factor
- The Snacks/Apple trades still bother me
Curtis Riley might be our best offseason signing...
If you're watching the Saints tonight - the Apple trade was a steal
The worst move factoring in total value paid probably has to be Solder since we are likely going nowhere for quite awhile...
Everything they did was wrong. If you don't agree, look not only at the results but at what the future looks like.
This offseason was a total mistake.
I think Barkley is a great kid & I enjoy watching him, but this team needed Nelson more.
Conversely, if Darnold, Rosen, and Allen are all mediocre or worse, it was also the correct decision.
I don't think much of Allen but I think Darnold or Rosen could be really good someday.
Who was your QB Tanney ? you must of had some great plan ..
Agree. The thing is they had loads of tape on this guy. How come he was a failure here?
A complete con job by Mara.
This team needs a complete overhaul, from front office, scouts, coaches, down to the players. We are quickly approaching a decade of football worse than the 70s
They hired a place holder gm who is keeping the seat warm for their internal replacement Kevin abrams
From the handling of Eli Manning last season by John Mara, to the drafting of flowers when people in the room were arguing he was a third round talent, to the notion that this team was a few pieces away from a super goal with Eli Manning. The list goes on concerning bone headed decisions that set them back before the players even taken the field
Just broken
Don't fans write for Bleacher Report?
Don't fans write for Bleacher Report?
I’m very glad we have Barkley, but look at what the Colts are doing now that they have fixed their line. If the plan was to keep Eli, you could have drafted Nelson & go OL again in round 2.
I can at least understand the fan level thought process behind wanting Omameh, but that's one the professionals need to sort out. Gives me little faith they have any idea what they're doing in pro scouting which is weird since Gettleman was decent at it when he was here.
It didn't lead to more wins because there's no foundation built on this team, and all those yards and touchdowns resulted in a marginal uptick to the offense that was padded by some big games against equally bad teams.
I was against drafting Nelson that high, but looking at what he's done for the Colts, it's really hard not to wonder how much better the Giants would be with that type of player on the OL. I didn't think it was possible for him to play to his expectations, but he has. And I like Hernandez, but he's had a normal rookie year while Nelson does indeed look special in the same way Barkley does.
He is an accomplished writer, two books published, but he always told me BR should not be taken too seriously
It didn't lead to more wins because there's no foundation built on this team, and all those yards and touchdowns resulted in a marginal uptick to the offense that was padded by some big games against equally bad teams.
I was against drafting Nelson that high, but looking at what he's done for the Colts, it's really hard not to wonder how much better the Giants would be with that type of player on the OL. I didn't think it was possible for him to play to his expectations, but he has. And I like Hernandez, but he's had a normal rookie year while Nelson does indeed look special in the same way Barkley does.
I recognize Barkley's talent too, and I was secretly envious of the Colts' draft. Its way earlier than I'd normally want to take a guard, but most great lines in the league are anchored by at least two high draft picks. Nelson and Smith would maybe mean our 7-8 year problem on the line coming to an end. That would be worth a position reach in a year when the available quarterbacks were not (and have not been) that impressive.
If we drafted a QB, why would be better off? We wouldn't. We'd still have a crappy roster, a crappy line, and no running game.
Just wait until they put a line in front of this guy. He's going to me the next QB, whomever he is, look immensely better and make their job WAY easier.
Omameh was a mistake. Stewart? I understand the reasoning, but a big meh
If we drafted a QB, why would be better off? We wouldn't. We'd still have a crappy roster, a crappy line, and no running game.
Just wait until they put a line in front of this guy. He's going to me the next QB, whomever he is, look immensely better and make their job WAY easier.
There's no doubt he will. My only concern has always been longevity. Will he be elite by the time this team is ready to contend? We're talking second contract, because I sincerely doubt we're ready by then. Highly debatable and only time will tell. We're basically hoping he will be a Tomlinson as far as longevity and skill.
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The dude is a threat to take it to the house on EVERY play.
If we drafted a QB, why would be better off? We wouldn't. We'd still have a crappy roster, a crappy line, and no running game.
Just wait until they put a line in front of this guy. He's going to me the next QB, whomever he is, look immensely better and make their job WAY easier.
There's no doubt he will. My only concern has always been longevity. Will he be elite by the time this team is ready to contend? We're talking second contract, because I sincerely doubt we're ready by then. Highly debatable and only time will tell. We're basically hoping he will be a Tomlinson as far as longevity and skill.
With the usual injury disclaimer, most elite RBs remain so at least up until 30, sometimes beyond that. Think Pederson, Faulk, Dickerson, Sanders, et al. We’ll be contending sooner rather than later, especially in this parity era
And what if Darnold doesn't pan out? Still a mistake?
OTW, drafting Nelson or Chubb was an option as well.
Still a mistake?
OTW, drafting Nelson or Chubb was an option as well.
Why "any of the QB's"? The Giants were taking Darnold. That's the one.
And you know what, the whole reason they were probably scared off of QB was the uncertainty and bust potential. If only 1/3 become decent, what if they took the wrong one?
Barkley was a slam dunk pick and they took him. That's the end of story. You can't go back in five years and say "Rosen is decent we failed".
I bitched about how the Giants, not only had a roster full of JAGS, but the stars were guys that were hard to root for.
I don't think that's true anymore. I love SB the player and the person.
I think Barkley is a great kid & I enjoy watching him, but this team needed Nelson more.
Well that team had Andrew Luck, which you are leaving out of your analysis. Colts had no choice but to move down, it was the only logical move to make. Giants were never going to invest a top 5 pick in a Guard, not should they.
But Luck is towards the top of the list for the most important player to their teams success in the NFL, IMO. It’s him and Rodgers and then everyone else.
IMO, an average QB trumps the superstar RB every time. NFL history shows this with many star RBs in the past with Barry Sanders being the prime example.
Now, stick a great D with the great RB and a game manager type QB and maybe the team can make some damage. Unfortunately, keeping those Ds intact in the salary cap and free agent era is impossible. For every Ravens and Denver, there are many more SB teams that have great QBs
I understand why they say that. They are seeing other RBs be successful after being taken later in the draft. You have a better shot at finding a quality RB later in a draft than a top QB. Not that QBs are not found after the first round but the odds are much less.
I think those media comments are not about Barkley as a person but more about the running back position.
You know you can cherry pick position success at basically every position, right? Chubb is talented for sure, but i'm skeptical of him holding up for even just his rookie deal. I like Lindsey too but will he ever be a feature 25+ touch back?
Barkley is built to last and isn't just a RB - his value is infinitely higher than both of those players. You also don't know if the Giants/Jets would ever make a deal of that magnitude so you are just throwing shit at the wall with that comment.
I mean, seriously. If somebody told you before we drafted Barkley that he would get 2000 yards and 17 TD's this season, would you have even flinched when going to the podium? Seriously?
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not named Mayfield pan out, and the the Giants don't get a guy soon, it was a mistake. Ideally they copy the Rams and get their Goff in the next few years.
OTW, drafting Nelson or Chubb was an option as well.
Why "any of the QB's"? The Giants were taking Darnold. That's the one.
And you know what, the whole reason they were probably scared off of QB was the uncertainty and bust potential. If only 1/3 become decent, what if they took the wrong one?
Barkley was a slam dunk pick and they took him. That's the end of story. You can't go back in five years and say "Rosen is decent we failed".
Why can't you? And its not just Darnold, Giants had access to him, Rosen, Allen and Lamar Jackson, all 1st rd QBs. Its their job to scout these guys so they are all in the picture.
If any of those players turn into all pros, then drafting Barkley was likely a mistake UNLESS the Giants can draft Eli's successor very soon. This has nothing to do with Barkley being a stud, more to do with the Giants winning games.
You can't just cherry pick the mistakes that absolve/failed Eli, you have to look at the moves as a whole for the organization.
If Josh Rosen (your example) becomes a top 5 QB over the next 5 years, chances are that the Giants would have had more success with him than with a top 2 RB. And that success could extend 15 years. 1st round QBs bust at what 35-40%? With the #2 pick and 5 1st rd talents, Giants had good odds on landing the guy.
So it's too early to say Barkley was a mistake, he's certainly a great looking rookie. But he has to stay healthy and the Giants have to draft a QB and start winning. If they end up drafting a QB kid next year and devote 3 years developing him and he's a bust, how is it not a mistake? I don't even think mistake is the right word, the right path? No one knows yet either way.
Kerryon Johnson, too. Even missing a game, he's had a terrific rookie campaign.
RB is the most commoditized position in the sport. The sport never runs out of good ones. And the difference between the great ones and good ones can be negligible. So it always begs the question - why invest big dollars in one?
And the game dictates this. I hate the rules aimed at neutering the defense, but you win in this league by passing. Sure, you'll have a few games a year where the running game works. But by and large it's not a strategy to rely on.
I would have to say its a toss-up between Omameh and Ogeltree.
In comment 14197532 NBGblue said:
In comment 14198094 Ten Ton Hammer said:
It didn't lead to more wins because there's no foundation built on this team, and all those yards and touchdowns resulted in a marginal uptick to the offense that was padded by some big games against equally bad teams.
I was against drafting Nelson that high, but looking at what he's done for the Colts, it's really hard not to wonder how much better the Giants would be with that type of player on the OL. I didn't think it was possible for him to play to his expectations, but he has. And I like Hernandez, but he's had a normal rookie year while Nelson does indeed look special in the same way Barkley does.
I mean, seriously. If somebody told you before we drafted Barkley that he would get 2000 yards and 17 TD's this season, would you have even flinched when going to the podium? Seriously?
Nobody's arguing that he's not a ridiculous talent. So is Odell. Great players. Wouldn't want them to play for any other team.
That said, this franchise did a lot of winning without having the best RB in the league.
In 2008, the Giants got 2100 yards and 17 touchdowns from Brandon Jacobs and Derrick Ward, guys who couldn't touch Saquon's talent.
When people argue about RB production, it's not just to play contrarian. There are legitimate points to be had on both sides.
You could put up numbers of a middling #1 WR like Robert Woods and say, he's not doing too much worse than Julio Jones and people would laugh. But comparing Lindsay to Barkley where the yards from scrimmage are even more of a divide than the difference between Jones and Woods, and people act like great RB's grow on trees. Out of the top 4 rushing leaders in the NFL, 3 of them were drafted in the 1st round.
If RB's are commodities, even though a Barkley or Gurley are blowing away the field on total yards from scrimmage, why aren't WR's looked at the same way, even though the difference between the top guy and the 14th one is 400 yards?
In the past few years, guys like Gurley, Barkley, McCaffery and Elliott have all lived up to 1st round value. I guess you can say a guy like Kerryon Johnson is the same, but I'm not really sure how. He's 16th in rushing and has less than half of the total yards from scrimmage of the top 3 guys.
But again, he is really nice to have...
Bottom line it’s a QB driven league. It’s still all about the QB, getting to the QB and protecting the QB. Barkley or any other piece is secondary, at best. Many have argued that RB is a level below secondary and I largely agree but will grant that Barkley is more than just a RB as he affect the passing game significantly. Nonethless, he’s no QB.
But again, he is really nice to have...
I get what you are trying to say but he’s absolutely a difference maker on this offense. What have you been watching? What else does he need to do to make any more of a difference? He’s the reason we score any points at all. We absolutely need a new QB but Barkley is more than “nice to have” - he’s the best player on the team.
And the SB winner was Nick Foles.....
That's not a blueprint for success.
To me, that doesn't put it in the running for worst move.
In aggregate, the Giants FA was one huge blunder. We now have to rebuild from the rebuild. Do we owe that blunder to Gettleman or C Mara? Whoever is responsible is the worst off season move - either hiring G, or not firing CM (I presume G does not wear the hat that can fire CM)
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But until the guy under center is changed out, Barkley will not be the difference maker for the offense.
But again, he is really nice to have...
I get what you are trying to say but he’s absolutely a difference maker on this offense. What have you been watching? What else does he need to do to make any more of a difference? He’s the reason we score any points at all. We absolutely need a new QB but Barkley is more than “nice to have” - he’s the best player on the team.
Being the reason we score any points at all and being the best player on the team is only a difference maker versus the rest of the roster.
I was more referring to (in only a few words) being the difference make in converting our Offense into something that translates to more wins Tough for any one guy to do, but really tough for a RB...
We have seen runs where our mouths drop open. Imagine if he occasionally got a great block, and the penetration was largely stifled.
SB allows the Giants to be competitive with a marginally talented o-line, if the individuals are smart and well-coached.
He also allows the team to be competitive with a game manager type at QB.
Not arguing for these directions, but he certainly provides a foundation.