NFT: Cano deal almost final. Waiting on physical

but that's a total guess.

will do to the perception of such a deal.

For $20 million (from the Mariners), the Mets are going to absolutely regret this deal.

I would have been significantly more comfortable if the Mets were getting $50 million from the Mariners. I feel like the Mets got fleeced here. $20 million doesn't even cover a single season for Cano. And to lose a 6th and 18th overall draft pick? Mets are going to suffer with this deal for a decade.

In comment 14200328 Knineteen said:

Quote:

will do to the perception of such a deal. For $20 million (from the Mariners), the Mets are going to absolutely regret this deal. I would have been significantly more comfortable if the Mets were getting $50 million from the Mariners. I feel like the Mets got fleeced here. $20 million doesn't even cover a single season for Cano. And to lose a 6th and 18th overall draft pick? Mets are going to suffer with this deal for a decade.

+1 and they will use his contract as an excuse not to sign FAs in the future as they did with Wright�s

In comment 14200285 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

In comment 14200266 gmenatlarge said: Quote: In comment 14200243 Eric on Li said: Quote: he's a good defender, he can play a few positions, up until last year he was always healthy and even missing a bunch of games he hit 18 homers. He's a good depth player for a team that always seems to find itself without enough depth. Frazier stinks, he was OK for the Yankees they didn�t�t need a bat like the Mets did. Now he is a player on the way down with his .210 BA and his defense fell off considerably last year also. He graded out as the best defender on the team out of players who played 500+ innings. 1 of only 2 who had a positive defensive impact. Mets defense last year - ( New Window )

That is one joke of a stat, look at the comparisons, you�re gonna tell me he�s a better fielder than Cabrera or Rosario, that�s laughable, Open your eyes and watch the games, Frazier is a player on the way down with no range at third and a weak bat who occasionally hits a home run, a backup player at this point.

...move over Robert Gsellman.

And unloading Bruce and Swarzak for Cano is a win too.

In 2018, Mets .234 team BA was last in MLB. Cano will change that by himself.

IMO, Mets fans should be pretty happy about this deal, unless you're feeling nostalgic about Bruce and Swarzak.

The thing I like least about it is Cano's no trade clause.
Rosario SS
McNeil 3B
Nimmo RF
Cano 2B
Conforto LF
Frazier 1B
Lagares CF
Plawecki C

With improvements at catcher and center field, this should become a pretty good lineup. By signing another top reliever like Miller, the bullpen goes from bad to very good.

Regarding the rotation, I hope they keep it together. Jake, Wheeler, Thor, Matz and Lagares are a great group and having Lugo in the pen, means they can plug in a competent starter should one become injured.

Of all of that gets done, and that's a big if, the Mets become a competitive team.

based on Baseball-Reference CONTRACS

Yoenis Cespedes $29,000,000
Robinson Cano $19,000,000
Juan Lagares $9,000,000
Todd Frazier $9,000,000
Jason Vargas $8,000,000
Zack Wheeler $5,300,000
Travis d'Arnaud $3,700,000
Jacob deGrom $12,900,000
Noah Syndergaard $5,900,000
Steven Matz $3,000,000
Michael Conforto $4,400,000
Kevin Plawecki $1,300,000
Seth Lugo $550,000
TJ Rivera $550,000
Robert Gsellman $550,000
Edwin Diaz $550,000
Brandon Nimmo $550,000
Amed Rosario $550,000
Jeff McNeil $550,000
Peter Alonso $550,000
Dom Smith $550,000
Daniel Zamora $550,000
Drew Smith $550,000
Tyler Bashlor $550,000

Commitment $117,100,000

and I'm guessing Brody can convince Wilpons to go another $5-10 mil, with the added revenue from ticket sales expected with these additions. Not to mention potential insurance money we would get back from Cespedes being out 80+games.

trades over the next 6 weeks. Not counting on Harper. But there are players out there.

Reclamation Projects via FA I'd look at:
1. Hanley Ramirez
2. Mark Reynolds
3. Jonathan Schoop
4. Daniel Murphy (as a platoon at 1B/2B/3B)
5. Granderson (had a good year as a 4th OF, great in the clubhouse)
6. Derek Dietrich (guy is a grinder, always killed the Mets)
7. Asivail Garcia (Cespedes out half the year, could be a good 1 year sign and maybe trade candidate)
8. Shelby Miller - boy has his star fallen, but his velocity was up last year, worth a flyer
9. Ervin Santana - was very good from 13-17, injured last year, worth a flyer too, could be an excellent 4-5, his velocity was down 3 mph, perhaps do to bad finger injury
10. Brad Brach - had a down year, but was excellent prior few years

and i'm kind of crossing my fingers we do; this is my off-season:

I'd go big game fishing with Kimbrel, Miller Pollock that should be about $45-$50 million

Trade Frazier, Lagares to Red Sox for Rusney Castillo and Michael Chavis (sox need to sign a ton of players next year and need someone like Castillo off their books, and he's hit decenlty in the minors, also a former roc nation client); Chavis is blocked at 3B anyway in Bos.

Sign Ervin Santana as #5 starter, pushing Vargas to bullpen as long man (+3-4 mil)

Sign Billy Hamilton as defensive outfielder/pinch runner (+2-3 mil)


Roster:
SP-deGrom, Syndergaard, Wheeler, Matz, Santana
RP-Kimbrel, Diaz, Miller, Lugo, Gsellman, Zamora, Vargas
C-Plawecki, d'Arnaud
1B-Alonso
2B-Cano
SS-Rosario
3B-McNeil/Chavis
UT-Rivera
CO-Cespedes/Conforto/Nimmo
CF-Pollock/Castillo

In comment 14200336 gmenatlarge said:

Quote:

In comment 14200285 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 14200266 gmenatlarge said: Quote: In comment 14200243 Eric on Li said: Quote: he's a good defender, he can play a few positions, up until last year he was always healthy and even missing a bunch of games he hit 18 homers. He's a good depth player for a team that always seems to find itself without enough depth. Frazier stinks, he was OK for the Yankees they didn�t�t need a bat like the Mets did. Now he is a player on the way down with his .210 BA and his defense fell off considerably last year also. He graded out as the best defender on the team out of players who played 500+ innings. 1 of only 2 who had a positive defensive impact. Mets defense last year - ( New Window ) That is one joke of a stat, look at the comparisons, you�re gonna tell me he�s a better fielder than Cabrera or Rosario, that�s laughable, Open your eyes and watch the games, Frazier is a player on the way down with no range at third and a weak bat who occasionally hits a home run, a backup player at this point.

If you watched met games the last 2 years and thought cabrera was still a good defender you're doing it wrong.

In comment 14200253 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

Mark Feinsand ‏Verified account @Feinsand Sources say the Mets have spoken with the Indians about Corey Kluber. The two teams had talked about Yan Gomes before he was dealt to the Nationals, but the Mets' interest now appears to also extend to Kluber, who had Mets manager Mickey Callaway as a pitching coach in Cleveland. 10:59 PM - 1 Dec 2018

Who exactly would they trade for Kluber? They just gave up all their prospects in the idiotic Cano trade. I can't see Cleveland wanting anyone but Noah and Conforto. Trading Noah for Kluber is unbelievably stupid. And if you trade Conforto for him, you better be signing Harper.

In comment 14200347 CMicks3110 said:

Quote:

based on Baseball-Reference CONTRACS Yoenis Cespedes $29,000,000 Robinson Cano $19,000,000 Juan Lagares $9,000,000 Todd Frazier $9,000,000 Jason Vargas $8,000,000 Zack Wheeler $5,300,000 Travis d'Arnaud $3,700,000 Jacob deGrom $12,900,000 Noah Syndergaard $5,900,000 Steven Matz $3,000,000 Michael Conforto $4,400,000 Kevin Plawecki $1,300,000 Seth Lugo $550,000 TJ Rivera $550,000 Robert Gsellman $550,000 Edwin Diaz $550,000 Brandon Nimmo $550,000 Amed Rosario $550,000 Jeff McNeil $550,000 Peter Alonso $550,000 Dom Smith $550,000 Daniel Zamora $550,000 Drew Smith $550,000 Tyler Bashlor $550,000 Commitment $117,100,000

This is the mindset the Mets have put their fans in. lol. We're counting payroll like we're the damn Oakland A's. The payroll shouldn't even be an issue. They should go big fish hunting period.

We weren�t a closer away and Cano will be an albatross in a couple of years. Plus, Diaz doesn�t have anything we haven�t seen from other good but not HOF closers in the past. Very likely last year winds up being by far his best and he offers the same kind of value (more or less) that we could have gotten from a FA closer.

I feel like we should be the one aquiring prospects not the other way around. I fear that the Coupons will use Cano�s contract as an excuse for not spending in a few years.

We�ll see what the full plan is but I�m not thrilled so far.

now go get set up rp, catcher and a CF and lets go.

In comment 14200480 TD said:

Quote:

We weren�t a closer away and Cano will be an albatross in a couple of years. Plus, Diaz doesn�t have anything we haven�t seen from other good but not HOF closers in the past. Very likely last year winds up being by far his best and he offers the same kind of value (more or less) that we could have gotten from a FA closer. I feel like we should be the one aquiring prospects not the other way around. I fear that the Coupons will use Cano�s contract as an excuse for not spending in a few years. We�ll see what the full plan is but I�m not thrilled so far.

+1000 Same old, same old from the Mets giving away the future for an aging star who thought he needed Peds just to compete last year. How is that going to play out when Cano doesn�t produce and the fans and media of NY start criticizing him combined with his lack of hustle? Looks like Brodie (I was an agent how hard could it be to be a GM) is going for the quick fix and if it doesn�t work could hamper this team for the next FIVE years.

God what an awful trade. Dunn and Kelenic, one maybe but not both. Now they're saying Diaz has a bone spur condition in his right elbow... Cano is 36 years old 2nd basemen with no range... If he can't play 3rd base we better send him somewhere quick. What a dumb ass trade. Now they're talking Thor...

In comment 14200436 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

In comment 14200336 gmenatlarge said: Quote: In comment 14200285 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 14200266 gmenatlarge said: Quote: In comment 14200243 Eric on Li said: Quote: he's a good defender, he can play a few positions, up until last year he was always healthy and even missing a bunch of games he hit 18 homers. He's a good depth player for a team that always seems to find itself without enough depth. Frazier stinks, he was OK for the Yankees they didn�t�t need a bat like the Mets did. Now he is a player on the way down with his .210 BA and his defense fell off considerably last year also. He graded out as the best defender on the team out of players who played 500+ innings. 1 of only 2 who had a positive defensive impact. Mets defense last year - ( New Window ) That is one joke of a stat, look at the comparisons, you�re gonna tell me he�s a better fielder than Cabrera or Rosario, that�s laughable, Open your eyes and watch the games, Frazier is a player on the way down with no range at third and a weak bat who occasionally hits a home run, a backup player at this point. If you watched met games the last 2 years and thought cabrera was still a good defender you're doing it wrong.

And if you thought Frazier was a good acquisition, you�re wrong, not interested in the back and forth. You like Frazier I don�t and think he could easily be replaced by a prospect with some upside.

In comment 14200488 Rory said:

Quote:

now go get set up rp, catcher and a CF and lets go.

I have a friend who is a Padres fan. Very knowledgeable. Sort of the Dan Metroman among San Diego fans.

He says the deal is a very good one for Mets.

According to him Kelenic has great tools but he was passed over by five teams in June and he is 19. Doesn�t put much stock in Kelenic�s numbers at rookie ball because of his age. This year will be revealing for Kelenic in A ball. Sounds like BVW wanted to move him this offseason while his value was high. A gamble but it could go either way.

Said Cano contract is cost of doing business and it is till better than 300 million for Machado

Diaz is a beast. Numbers are totally legit

Mets are mortgaging future perhaps but will be much stronger next two years, which makes sense with Thor JD and Wheeler all in their prime.

Nothing that has not been said here, but I always think an outside perspective is worth considering

In comment 14200529 Vanzetti said:

Quote:

In comment 14200488 Rory said: Quote: now go get set up rp, catcher and a CF and lets go. I have a friend who is a Padres fan. Very knowledgeable. Sort of the Dan Metroman among San Diego fans. He says the deal is a very good one for Mets. According to him Kelenic has great tools but he was passed over by five teams in June and he is 19. Doesn�t put much stock in Kelenic�s numbers at rookie ball because of his age. This year will be revealing for Kelenic in A ball. Sounds like BVW wanted to move him this offseason while his value was high. A gamble but it could go either way. Said Cano contract is cost of doing business and it is till better than 300 million for Machado Diaz is a beast. Numbers are totally legit Mets are mortgaging future perhaps but will be much stronger next two years, which makes sense with Thor JD and Wheeler all in their prime. Nothing that has not been said here, but I always think an outside perspective is worth considering

I think it's a few things at once and all are fair opinions. The team got better, it's risky, and it wasn't great asset management. I don't have a major issue dealing Kelenic, I do wonder what else other teams would have given up for him. I like Cano and I like Diaz, but for the net amounts we are going to pay them there were plenty of attractive FA options. If they do continue to invest $ in the roster to make a real run at things Cano and Diaz should both make a big impact this year.

1 of Ramos, Grandal, Cervelli

2 RP's (Miller and Robertson the pair I like)

1 low end SP (Gio would be solid)

Pollock

will be ill if they trade Syndergaard. Truly ill.

In comment 14200538 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

1 of Ramos, Grandal, Cervelli 2 RP's (Miller and Robertson the pair I like) 1 low end SP (Gio would be solid) Pollock

So payroll wise let's figure this adds ~12m AAV for catcher, ~20m AAV for the 2 relievers, Pollock should be around ~15m, and Gio would probably be around ~12m also. So that's about $60m on top of where they are now.

I'd guess that's too rich but I also think you can probably take that down to 1 FA reliever and acquire a cost effective 2nd reliever in a trade for Dom Smith. Dom to Pitt for Cervelli and Crick? Maybe you can get Pitt to match the salary coming back by taking on Vargas?

Cespedes wasn�t always hurt

Or if they signed Harper, traded Kluber for whatever (including Conforto), then traded Thor to restock the system.

But if this is the only deal...I cringe at their lack of minor league trade pieces.

I think they should consider Russell Martin. He's owed 20 million and Toronto wants to move him. Offer them one of the RP prospects for Martin and 13 million. Would mean he's a 1 year 7 million dollar player for the Mets.

That in two years, Mike Trout will be with the Phillies. Add on whoever they get as a major free agent or agents this year, we have to win now. Add the fact that our pitching is in its prime, let�s go for it. Better try and fail in this window, or feel sorry for not trying

In comment 14200553 SJGiant said:

Quote:

That in two years, Mike Trout will be with the Phillies. Add on whoever they get as a major free agent or agents this year, we have to win now. Add the fact that our pitching is in its prime, let�s go for it. Better try and fail in this window, or feel sorry for not trying

Win now is adding significantly more AND spending 170-180 million minimum. This move makes the Mets a better team (mostly if McNeil is the 3b, if Frazier is this deal makes them marginally better offensively and better in the 9th inning) but something dumb like trading Thor or thinking Maldonado and the return of Juan Lagares + this deal simply isn't enough. This is a low 80's win team on paper right now.

should be 1b until Alonso is up. If he's the starting 3b... ugh

In comment 14200539 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

will be ill if they trade Syndergaard. Truly ill.

I also lean against trading Syndergaard, but curious about how would you feel about this with SD?

Gore (i know they say he's off limits, but that's what Sea said about Diaz)
Paddack
Margot (conceivably on his way to becoming Pollock-esque)
Hedges (not my favorite option but he has been +32 DRS past 2 years)

Frees up a lot of money to go the FA route for 3-4 good pitchers. Keuchel, Gio, Miller, Eovaldi, Morton, Robertson.

In comment 14200549 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

I think they should consider Russell Martin. He's owed 20 million and Toronto wants to move him. Offer them one of the RP prospects for Martin and 13 million. Would mean he's a 1 year 7 million dollar player for the Mets.

Who is his agent? We will only trade for players formerly represented by BVW or his associates.

In comment 14200559 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 14200553 SJGiant said: Quote: That in two years, Mike Trout will be with the Phillies. Add on whoever they get as a major free agent or agents this year, we have to win now. Add the fact that our pitching is in its prime, let�s go for it. Better try and fail in this window, or feel sorry for not trying Win now is adding significantly more AND spending 170-180 million minimum. This move makes the Mets a better team (mostly if McNeil is the 3b, if Frazier is this deal makes them marginally better offensively and better in the 9th inning) but something dumb like trading Thor or thinking Maldonado and the return of Juan Lagares + this deal simply isn't enough. This is a low 80's win team on paper right now.

I agree with this. We need to spend more this year. We will see if BVW is given the freedom to commit dollars and years for quality players

In comment 14200570 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

In comment 14200539 DanMetroMan said: Quote: will be ill if they trade Syndergaard. Truly ill. I also lean against trading Syndergaard, but curious about how would you feel about this with SD? Gore (i know they say he's off limits, but that's what Sea said about Diaz) Paddack Margot (conceivably on his way to becoming Pollock-esque) Hedges (not my favorite option but he has been +32 DRS past 2 years) Frees up a lot of money to go the FA route for 3-4 good pitchers. Keuchel, Gio, Miller, Eovaldi, Morton, Robertson.

SD has told teams under no circumstances will they trade Gore or Tatis this off-season so yeah if you get gore maybe you think about it but I also think the offer you are suggesting is far more than what is being reported. They have Paddack as their "top" player they are offering

has been very, very disappointing. He may never hit, too soon to tell but it wouldn't shock me

In comment 14200559 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 14200553 SJGiant said: Quote: That in two years, Mike Trout will be with the Phillies. Add on whoever they get as a major free agent or agents this year, we have to win now. Add the fact that our pitching is in its prime, let�s go for it. Better try and fail in this window, or feel sorry for not trying Win now is adding significantly more AND spending 170-180 million minimum. This move makes the Mets a better team (mostly if McNeil is the 3b, if Frazier is this deal makes them marginally better offensively and better in the 9th inning) but something dumb like trading Thor or thinking Maldonado and the return of Juan Lagares + this deal simply isn't enough. This is a low 80's win team on paper right now.

Really don�t see how worrying about what the Phillies �might� do should determine the Mets course of action. Just try and make this pathetic franchise better which I don�t think they did, oh well.

That means the 2022 and 2023 Mets are on the hook for $50 million across only two players, one of which will be 39 and 40 years old.

And two of their most recent first rounders are gone.

It's pretty much all or nothing the next couple of seasons because the dark days are coming.

Doesn�t he want to win a championship before the end?

If Diaz. I mean how do we invest that much in a dude with a ticking time bomb in his elbow like that. Wasn�t that what putz had too? This would really be days of future past

In comment 14200912 bhill410 said:

Quote:

If Diaz. I mean how do we invest that much in a dude with a ticking time bomb in his elbow like that. Wasn�t that what putz had too? This would really be days of future past

It�s not a new issue... it�s something he�s had since he was drafted. It�s just coming off like this is some new headline.... it�s not.

Sign Miller and Harper. C ya in the WS.

1.) Nimmo CF
2.) McNeil 3B
3.) Cespedes LF
4.) Harper RF
5.) Realmuto C
6.) Cano 2B
7.) Alonso 1B
8.) Rosario SS

In comment 14201684 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

Sign Miller and Harper. C ya in the WS.

Conforto and ??? and ??? for Realmuto.

Just, fixing that for you.

In comment 14202369 Knineteen said:

Quote:

In comment 14201684 ZGiants98 said: Quote: Sign Miller and Harper. C ya in the WS. Conforto and ??? and ??? for Realmuto. Just, fixing that for you.

Yeah right. They�ve already said they would do a Conforto or Nimmo headlined package. Realmuto only has two years of control left and wants out. They aren�t going to do better than Conforto. They can have Dom Smith too I suppose.

In comment 14200081 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

?

I'd like it better if it were Bruce, Swarzak and maybe Batista for Cano and Diaz. Seattle basically bought Kelenic and Dunn. I still look at Cano as the bad contract the Mets took to get Diaz, but relief pitchers' careers are short and unpredictable.

I think Kelenic is going to be really, really good.

To me, it's telling that the Mets didn't tender Wilmer Flores. I think they plan to move Cano and McNeil around, DH Cano in AL parks, maybe play Cano at first sometimes if Alonso doesn't catch fire. In short, I think they're really looking at Cano/McNiel as sort of a supercharged version of Flores.

Check out his numbers after coming back from suspension last year. I don�t expect Robbie�s play to drop off a cliff anytime soon, that said you�re still paying him $20M a year for the wrong 5 year stretch of his contract. Unless Diz is lights out again, and for a while, I view this as a meh deal. I guess it�s worth it for the Mets though. I�m not going to pretend to know anything about the prospects going to Seattle

Quote:

To me, it's telling that the Mets didn't tender Wilmer Flores..

I think you�re reading too much into it. I think they just didnt want to pay a utility guy with bad knees @ $5 million.

In comment 14202579 Jim in Fairfax said:

Quote:

Quote: To me, it's telling that the Mets didn't tender Wilmer Flores.. I think you�re reading too much into it. I think they just didnt want to pay a utility guy with bad knees @ $5 million.

agree with Jim. Flores was shut down in September with early on-set arthritis.

That's not a guy you pay $5M per season for, when you have doubts about his availability.

In comment 14200538 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

1 of Ramos, Grandal, Cervelli 2 RP's (Miller and Robertson the pair I like) 1 low end SP (Gio would be solid) Pollock

Dan, whats your thoughts on

Which catcher you think is best for the SPs?

Can Frazier play 1b?

Pollocks injury history, has great tools but still scares me

Joe Kelly

Mcneil at 3b

Cespedes return in July

Re-sign Wheeler

Thoughts on Jarred Kelenic last 2 months in Kingsport

In comment 14202711 Rory said:

Quote:

In comment 14200538 DanMetroMan said: Quote: 1 of Ramos, Grandal, Cervelli 2 RP's (Miller and Robertson the pair I like) 1 low end SP (Gio would be solid) Pollock Dan, whats your thoughts on Which catcher you think is best for the SPs? Can Frazier play 1b? Pollocks injury history, has great tools but still scares me Joe Kelly Mcneil at 3b Cespedes return in July Re-sign Wheeler Thoughts on Jarred Kelenic last 2 months in Kingsport

Personally my catching list is Ramos, Cervelli, Grandal and then something like Vargas and one of the RP prospects for Russell Martin. I don't agree a TOTAL zero defensive catcher is a good idea for a team with this lineup. How many hitters in this lineup have produced at all? Have produced for more than one season? It's a short list. I like Pollock but I suspect someone gets nutty and gives him 5, I don't think I could go more than 4. Frazier should be the starting 1b to open the season, agreed on Wheeler and I think Kelenic is going to be very good personally. I've heard they aren't sure they see Cespedes at all so July seems otimistic so who knows?

Why don't they just sign a good closer in the FA market and save their money and prospects? Throw money at elite guys not a guy closing in on being labeled a has been.

... Not.

Fucking Loser organization