I know some Mets fans don't want to hear opinions from other fans on their threads, so I'll start a new one and just look at it from Seattles perspective. If you are a sensitive mets fan, please get out now.
Wow, what a job by Seattle, absolutely amazing.
So in order to steal one of the best hitters in the game during his prime, Seattle needed to sign him to a 10 year deal that would bring him into his 40's. Everyone knew that the contract would be an albatross towards the end, but they had to make a bold move. They sign Cano and get 5 high quality years. Then he gets busted for PED's and with 5 years left on the deal, they unload him and ONLY add $20M to the deal to get it done. All they had to do was add a RP to get it done. It doesn't stop there though, they even got the Mets to throw in a few top level prospects to sweaten the pot and only took on minimal salary(Bruce and the RP) to entice the Mets even more.
Absolutely amazing job by Seattle. They stole Cano from the Yankees, got his best years and then unloaded him fairly easily.
Bare minimum to be competitive: Maldonado, McCutchen, Miller or Robertson.
Very happy: Ramos, Pollock, Miller or Robertson, backend starter for depth purposes.
Shoot for the Stars: Swap Conforto for Realmuto, Sign Harper, Sign Miller and Robertson (or two similar arms), sign Gio. Live with Lagares in CF until Cespedes returns. Rid yourself of Frazier.
Crazy enough even the shoot for the stars option probably keeps the payroll around 170 million or so.
Im kind of surprised he still is employed by SNY. They have to be able to identify how bad he is right? I can think of countless better options.
"One rival executive who likes the Mariners return in the Robinson Can-Edwin Diaz blockbuster said it would have been even better if the Ms had landed Mets second baseman Jeff McNeil, who in the execs opinion could have been another Mitch Haniger-like steal for Seattle."
"The executive believes McNeil possesses freaky contact skills that will enable him to be an everyday second baseman on a championship club." - (Ken Rosenthal)
"One rival executive who likes the Mariners return in the Robinson Can-Edwin Diaz blockbuster said it would have been even better if the Ms had landed Mets second baseman Jeff McNeil, who in the execs opinion could have been another Mitch Haniger-like steal for Seattle."
"The executive believes McNeil possesses freaky contact skills that will enable him to be an everyday second baseman on a championship club." - (Ken Rosenthal)
Just hope that Callaway doesn't regularly start Frazier over McNeil at 3B.
"One rival executive who likes the Mariners return in the Robinson Can-Edwin Diaz blockbuster said it would have been even better if the Ms had landed Mets second baseman Jeff McNeil, who in the execs opinion could have been another Mitch Haniger-like steal for Seattle."
"The executive believes McNeil possesses freaky contact skills that will enable him to be an everyday second baseman on a championship club." - (Ken Rosenthal)
And herein lies the issue. The Mets had all the leverage in this deal and you always felt that it was the Mariners who were controlling the discussion. When a team is trying to unload an albatross contract for a 36 year old recent PED violator, the other team should win that trade 100 times out of 100. Only the Mets could screw that up.
Bare minimum to be competitive: Maldonado, McCutchen, Miller or Robertson.
Very happy: Ramos, Pollock, Miller or Robertson, backend starter for depth purposes.
Shoot for the Stars: Swap Conforto for Realmuto, Sign Harper, Sign Miller and Robertson (or two similar arms), sign Gio. Live with Lagares in CF until Cespedes returns. Rid yourself of Frazier.
Crazy enough even the shoot for the stars option probably keeps the payroll around 170 million or so.
I respect you as a poster and a Mets fan, but I hate your post. A home grown talent like Conforto you want to trade for Realmuto? I hate the hired guns mentality. I'd rather root for homegrown stars, and Conforto is that. Would love to see him play his whole career as a Met.
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"One rival executive who likes the Mariners return in the Robinson Can-Edwin Diaz blockbuster said it would have been even better if the Ms had landed Mets second baseman Jeff McNeil, who in the execs opinion could have been another Mitch Haniger-like steal for Seattle."
"The executive believes McNeil possesses freaky contact skills that will enable him to be an everyday second baseman on a championship club." - (Ken Rosenthal)
And herein lies the issue. The Mets had all the leverage in this deal and you always felt that it was the Mariners who were controlling the discussion. When a team is trying to unload an albatross contract for a 36 year old recent PED violator, the other team should win that trade 100 times out of 100. Only the Mets could screw that up.
Disagree. Just because they gave out an expensive contract doesnt mean we get to just run roughshod over them despite them eating almost half his salary in the deal net. Cano is still very good and proved it post PEDs. We dont get to have their closer for the supreme duty of taking on Cano. Cano still has value and likely would have gotten a nice 2-3 year deal on the open market today. They didnt screw up anything with Cano. They wanted him and swapped out some bad contacts and acquired some cash to make his contract less. They gave up nothing of substance for him. They did a separate trade for one of the best closers in baseball for a couple of prospects. Seems reasonable and fair all around to me.
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"One rival executive who likes the Mariners return in the Robinson Can-Edwin Diaz blockbuster said it would have been even better if the Ms had landed Mets second baseman Jeff McNeil, who in the execs opinion could have been another Mitch Haniger-like steal for Seattle."
"The executive believes McNeil possesses freaky contact skills that will enable him to be an everyday second baseman on a championship club." - (Ken Rosenthal)
Just hope that Callaway doesn't regularly start Frazier over McNeil at 3B.
Hopefully Frazier is either moved or is at 1B until Alonso is finished being Super 2d.
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In comment 14204619 ZGiants98 said:
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"One rival executive who likes the Mariners return in the Robinson Can-Edwin Diaz blockbuster said it would have been even better if the Ms had landed Mets second baseman Jeff McNeil, who in the execs opinion could have been another Mitch Haniger-like steal for Seattle."
"The executive believes McNeil possesses freaky contact skills that will enable him to be an everyday second baseman on a championship club." - (Ken Rosenthal)
Just hope that Callaway doesn't regularly start Frazier over McNeil at 3B.
Hopefully Frazier is either moved or is at 1B until Alonso is finished being Super 2d.
Agreed, I would hang on Frazier and let him be the 1B until June 1st. At that point, you can either trade him or move him to the bench.
As for Cerrone, I don't believe his opinions are his own. Knowing he is paid by the team, ownership is probably using him to take the temperature of the fan base.
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In comment 14204619 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
"One rival executive who likes the Mariners return in the Robinson Can-Edwin Diaz blockbuster said it would have been even better if the Ms had landed Mets second baseman Jeff McNeil, who in the execs opinion could have been another Mitch Haniger-like steal for Seattle."
"The executive believes McNeil possesses freaky contact skills that will enable him to be an everyday second baseman on a championship club." - (Ken Rosenthal)
And herein lies the issue. The Mets had all the leverage in this deal and you always felt that it was the Mariners who were controlling the discussion. When a team is trying to unload an albatross contract for a 36 year old recent PED violator, the other team should win that trade 100 times out of 100. Only the Mets could screw that up.
Disagree. Just because they gave out an expensive contract doesnt mean we get to just run roughshod over them despite them eating almost half his salary in the deal net. Cano is still very good and proved it post PEDs. We dont get to have their closer for the supreme duty of taking on Cano. Cano still has value and likely would have gotten a nice 2-3 year deal on the open market today. They didnt screw up anything with Cano. They wanted him and swapped out some bad contacts and acquired some cash to make his contract less. They gave up nothing of substance for him. They did a separate trade for one of the best closers in baseball for a couple of prospects. Seems reasonable and fair all around to me.
You are right, we can disagree. The expensive contract is a big part of the deal. If a team wants to hand a player a dumb, expensive, long term contract...and then unload the worst part of that contract to another team, then they shouldnt be in the drivers seat. The Mets didnt even save any money on the deal this year lol. And Bruce/Swarzak were not bad contracts by any stretch.
And stop acting like that Cano and Diaz were separate trades...they werent. The Mariners werent going to throw in Diaz unless they get our best prospects and also take Canos albatross contract. And this is off of ONE big year. If we get 2017 Diaz ( highly probable) then the trade doesnt look so good, eh?
wat?
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And Bruce/Swarzak were not bad contracts by any stretch.
wat?
2 years at $14 mill for Jay Bruce
1 year at $8.5 mill for Anthony Swarzak
Total of $36.5 mill
Vs
5 years at $20 mill for 36 year old PED user Robinson Cano
No, they are not bad contracts. People only think they are bad contracts because its the Mets.
Swarzak has had 2 above average seasons out of the 9 hes been in MLB. Just based on that its highly unlikely hes going to repeat his career year. Expecting that given hes 33 and coming off a shoulder problem is even more unlikely.
Swarzak is paid like he's a 1 war player and it's not impossible he does that. Some around here were calling him an elite setup man last year. Vet relievers always find a home and Swarzak has more upside than your typical Fernando Salas. Would have had no issue keeping him, and in all honesty there's a better than 50-50 chance any team in the race is looking for a guy like him august.
Bruce's contract obviously hurt a little more - but mostly bc the Mets had no use of him since they don't have a DH and already have 2 better COF'ers. He can still likely post a 30/100 season - he's just very 1 dimensional and not a fit for the NL or the mets. His contract is valued around 3 fwar over 2 years. I'd say it's safe he does about that and he could do a little better if he has 1 good year like 2017.
Both of those guys are a bounceback to 2017 away from exceeding the value of the contracts. It takes a much bigger leap of faith that Cano will come close to matching his, let alone exceeding.
The Mariners took them and paid 20 million in order to receive better prospects from the Mets.
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Are you suggesting that Seattle, who is now tearing it down to rebuild, somehow wanted those contracts? They 100% took them to help balance the Cano contract. They have zero need for either. The Mets very likely could have gotten them to just pay out what they are going to pay Bruce and Swarzak on top of the 20 million but by clearing Bruce and Swarzak they also open a couple of crucial roster spots on the 40 man. It a 1000% was a favor to us.
The Mariners took them and paid 20 million in order to receive better prospects from the Mets.
Of course. In no way shape or form where they taking them because they liked them.
Who cares if Bruce and Swarzak bounce back? Seattle didnt want them for a single second.
Mets traded 2 players with inflated contracts with injury history and 3 prospects that are not ready to help win now for Cano who becomes their best hitter in the lineup and Diaz who could be the best closer in the NL.
how many wins were lost in the back end of games last year?
jarred kelenic does hurt but hes 19 and the Mets have the 9th pick in this years draft to replace.
Have to see what they do next but I like the trade.
Who cares if Bruce and Swarzak bounce back? Seattle didnt want them for a single second.
I think the better point is to correct people who call the entire Bruce and Swarzak contracts "dead" money. You know how I feel about Bruce (I've likely sounded like a broken record on him), but he's still almost certainly not entirely "dead" money. It's an "underwater" contract.
If Bruce plays to his career norms, he's likely to be worth $10-$15M total or so for the remainder of his contract (0.75-1 WAR per year). It means Bruce is overpaid, not completely worthless. So when someone uses Bruce/Swarzak's total amount owed and just subtracting it from the Cano remainder, it's not entirely accurate.
Put differently, as a Mets fan, I'd rather just get the balance owed to Swarzak and Bruce in cash and keep the players. The Mets could then hypothetically trade either of those, eat all the money, and receive some minor asset in return.
Scenario B: SEA pays a cash amount to the Mets equal to the remainder of salary owed to Bruce and Swarzak.
Does anyone dispute that scenario B is preferable to the Mets?
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Seattle didnt take back Bruce and Swarzak to even out some money in the deal? Amazing.
Who cares if Bruce and Swarzak bounce back? Seattle didnt want them for a single second.
I think the better point is to correct people who call the entire Bruce and Swarzak contracts "dead" money. You know how I feel about Bruce (I've likely sounded like a broken record on him), but he's still almost certainly not entirely "dead" money. It's an "underwater" contract.
If Bruce plays to his career norms, he's likely to be worth $10-$15M total or so for the remainder of his contract (0.75-1 WAR per year). It means Bruce is overpaid, not completely worthless. So when someone uses Bruce/Swarzak's total amount owed and just subtracting it from the Cano remainder, it's not entirely accurate.
Put differently, as a Mets fan, I'd rather just get the balance owed to Swarzak and Bruce in cash and keep the players. The Mets could then hypothetically trade either of those, eat all the money, and receive some minor asset in return.
Dude that logic works exactly the same way both ways. Assuming Canos contract is all dead money is farcical as well but its still a trade of multiple bad contracts.
Scenario B: SEA pays a cash amount to the Mets equal to the remainder of salary owed to Bruce and Swarzak.
Does anyone dispute that scenario B is preferable to the Mets?
I just I did. Same money back but you get rid of two spare parts and free up roster spots which isnt nothing.
Mike Puma
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Jeff Wilpon on Brodie: I havent seen anybody with this much drive and determination in a long time.
Mike Puma
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Jeff Wilpon on Brodie: I havent seen anybody with this much drive and determination in a long time.
LOL yeah and beyond that when Sandy first took over he was completely hamstrung as a result of the financial mess the Wilpon's found themselves in. How much more drive and determination could be likely have had? He was great at shepherding the organization through that period.
Jeff mentioned today they were hoping to resolve it soon to free up the roster spot.
BVW says there would have to be "very special circumstances for us to even consider" trading Syndergaard. He is part of the Mets core. -- Anthony DiComo
So trading him for crap that's being discussed or suggested by Cerrone would make that quote look absurd.
Anthony Swarzak, Jay Bruce, $20 Million, and a discount on Edwin Diaz is an amazing trade?
Thank you again for the Seattle perspective.
If this was Cano for 2 years $60M maybe people would feel better, but it's the same $60M (other than the $20M from SEA is being paid over time).
Also, the Mets traded two prospects for the best closer in the league last year. One is 19 years old.
I have repeatedly said I wouldn't have made the trade, but that's partly prospect hugging (phrase I've seen used more and more lately), but to say this was a good trade for Seattle has some massive projection for risky prospects and embraces they're going to be really bad for a while.
And the Mets team doctor performing the minor surgery is probably a good thing, no? He knows first hand the prognosis.