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Aaron Rodgers...

That’s Gold, Jerry : 12/4/2018 7:59 am
listening to Sirius/XM NFL radio on way home from work yesterday - Moving the Chains with Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan.

They were talking about the Firing of McCarthy and Kirwan said Rodgers has become a piece of work in Green Bay and then said "I will leave it at that".

It was a very interesting comment especially now that Rodgers has been paid the money and his play has not been good. Now, if that was no. 10, man, we'd be hearing it from the beat writers and so forth.

But I see the same situation in Green Bay that I have in New York. The Packers have not built or given Rodgers help. Based purely on observation, the Packers should be scoring 30 pts a game but they are not. So for those who may watch Green Bay more than I do...what's the issue there?
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Rodgers doesnt take the  
CromartiesKid21 : 12/4/2018 8:01 am : link
play given in front of him anymore; all he tries to do is play hero ball and look for the big shot downfield while taking sacks and not sustaining drives.
Rodgers has been failed  
rocco8112 : 12/4/2018 8:07 am : link
by his team and his (Super Bowl Winning) head coach. The franchise has failed him and the losses lie at the feet of everyone involved in Green Bay down to the maintenence staff and caterers.

There is no blame to assign this generational QB, his franchise has failed him.

This is the opposite of the Giants situation where it is old, obsolete and immobile Eli who has been an anchor on the Giants success.

Or, football might be a team game and it is hard to keep a winner going.
Well, there are excuses for Rodgers (“playing on one leg”),  
Big Blue '56 : 12/4/2018 8:08 am : link
none for Eli..

😎😎
Rodgers has been failed by Green Bay  
Chris684 : 12/4/2018 8:14 am : link
and Eli has failed the Giants.

It's the same boring narrative from the haters.

Excuses all around for the other guys, throw our guy under the bus.
RE: Rodgers has been failed by Green Bay  
Big Blue '56 : 12/4/2018 8:16 am : link
In comment 14204905 Chris684 said:
Quote:
and Eli has failed the Giants.

It's the same boring narrative from the haters.

Excuses all around for the other guys, throw our guy under the bus.


Duh, ya think? :)
RE: Well, there are excuses for Rodgers (“playing on one leg”),  
rocco8112 : 12/4/2018 8:17 am : link
In comment 14204895 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
none for Eli..

😎😎


Yeah, it is always like this. Football is the ultimate team sport, by nature of the position QB gets a lot of blame or credit. Some in my view, get way more blame than others. Every game is a referendum on Eli's career and always has been. Rodgers on the other hand has the excuse parade marched out over and over.
Also Chris and yes I will take shit for this,  
Big Blue '56 : 12/4/2018 8:20 am : link
I will always take an Eli over a Marino, Rodgers and Brees because he has as many SB wins than those QBs combined, even if they are/were better QBs over a career..

As I’ve said since 2011, Rodgers would have zero titles if not for our 2010 31-10 meltdown in the Philly game.

Again, I give two shitz whether they are better QBs. Give me my titles, angst and all
Rodgers deserves his share of blame  
UberAlias : 12/4/2018 8:21 am : link
But I don't think you can compare Rodgers to Eli. Let's be honest, if Eli's play had been at Rodgers level, no one would be criticizing him, and that's acknowledging that Rodgers's play is slipping. Prior to this year, the Packers recent win totals were 7, 10, 10, and 12 with three playoff appearances and two losses in the conference championship. NYG has seasons of 3, 11, 6, and 6 with one a one-and-done playoff appearance on the strength of the defense. Is this really a comparison?
No one comes into this house  
mattlawson : 12/4/2018 8:24 am : link
Without paying the price
BB56  
Chris684 : 12/4/2018 8:25 am : link
No need to explain to me my friend, we are on the same page. I have been an Eli Manning guy since the day we drafted him.

The grass isn't always greener, you know?
Also a divisional round loss for GB in 2015  
UberAlias : 12/4/2018 8:27 am : link
Meaning they won a playoff game that year too.
it is really no secret that Aaron Rodgers is a douchebag  
Jints in Carolina : 12/4/2018 8:30 am : link
talented as hell, but still a douchebag.
RE: it is really no secret that Aaron Rodgers is a douchebag  
crick n NC : 12/4/2018 8:31 am : link
In comment 14204940 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
talented as hell, but still a douchebag.


👍
GB has had a better season than NYG every year going back to 2011  
UberAlias : 12/4/2018 8:31 am : link
Not very close.
Aaron Rodgers  
hassan : 12/4/2018 8:34 am : link
has a 21:1 td-int ratio this season. They are bad this year in spite of him being stellar as usual. He may be a prick and a jerk, but the guy has top passing skills which are tangible.

Prior to this year, Rodgers consistently won when he stayed the starter for the team.

The lack of context is a little alarming in the comparisons.

It is a team game, but the appropriate amount of blame the qbs should have is very different between gb and nyg.



Rodgers has thrown 21 TDs this year  
UberAlias : 12/4/2018 8:36 am : link
to one pick. His team is better than ours year in year out, but let's pile on the guy.
Not to make excuses for Rodgers but...  
EricJ : 12/4/2018 8:37 am : link
he has one guy to throw to. The rest of the WRs has been a revolving door.
Go back to the  
crick n NC : 12/4/2018 8:38 am : link
Old philosophy - quarterbacks get too much credit when the team wins and too much blame when the team loses
The definition of insanity.....  
Doomster : 12/4/2018 8:40 am : link
Also Chris and yes I will take shit for this,
Big Blue '56 : 8:20 am : link : reply
I will always take an Eli over a Marino, Rodgers and Brees because he has as many SB wins than those QBs combined, even if they are/were better QBs over a career..
crick  
hassan : 12/4/2018 8:42 am : link
sure, but that still doesn’t make comparing eli to rodgers rational.....
RE: The definition of insanity.....  
Big Blue '56 : 12/4/2018 8:42 am : link
In comment 14204953 Doomster said:
Quote:
Also Chris and yes I will take shit for this,
Big Blue '56 : 8:20 am : link : reply
I will always take an Eli over a Marino, Rodgers and Brees because he has as many SB wins than those QBs combined, even if they are/were better QBs over a career..


You forgot to bold even if they are/were better QBs over a career.
Rodgers is great  
jeff57 : 12/4/2018 8:44 am : link
He's carried his team more than any other QB not named Russell Wilson.
To be fair  
joeinpa : 12/4/2018 8:45 am : link
Do you guys think Eli is a talented as Rogers

There are Eli hater there, but seeing his limitations this stage of his career does not put one in that club.
RE: To be fair  
Big Blue '56 : 12/4/2018 8:49 am : link
In comment 14204959 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Do you guys think Eli is a talented as Rogers

There are Eli hater there, but seeing his limitations this stage of his career does not put one in that club.


Absolutely not. But he has more championships which is ALL this fan cares about
...  
christian : 12/4/2018 8:51 am : link
The cumulative satisfaction of the 2 championships makes being a Giants fan over the span of Manning's career more enjoyable than being a Packers fan over the span of Rodgers. I don't think anyone can honestly argue against that.

But who the better player is and who's had a better career is a far different story and should be measured by different criteria.

Winning 2 rings isn't a career measurement. No one thinks Jim Punket had better career than Steve Young, right?
RE: Aaron Rodgers  
exiled : 12/4/2018 8:53 am : link
Quote:
has a 21:1 td-int ratio this season. They are bad this year in spite of him being stellar as usual. ...

It is a team game, but the appropriate amount of blame the qbs should have is very different between gb and nyg.


You’re right about context. Comparing Rodgers and Eli has always been apples and oranges. And Rodgers stats have been pretty good this season. Eli’s? No. But Rodgers has always been an imprtovisational player. Eli’s a pocket passer, where the line play is critical. He’d actually be playing considerably better with GB’s line. (The last time I checked anyway, it had a decent rating.)

Listen, I’m an Eli homer, but I’ve never thought he’s been on par with Rodgers. The end results, though, are the same. 4 wins.
RE: ...  
Big Blue '56 : 12/4/2018 8:54 am : link
In comment 14204968 christian said:
Quote:
The cumulative satisfaction of the 2 championships makes being a Giants fan over the span of Manning's career more enjoyable than being a Packers fan over the span of Rodgers. I don't think anyone can honestly argue against that.

But who the better player is and who's had a better career is a far different story and should be measured by different criteria.

Winning 2 rings isn't a career measurement. No one thinks Jim Punket had better career than Steve Young, right?


Morning buddy. No sane fan would ever argue that Eli is or has been better or comparable to Rodgers over their respective careers. You can’t. I don’t know of anyone who would
Contrary to popular belief  
UberAlias : 12/4/2018 8:56 am : link
Believing it is in the best interest of the team to move on does not make one an Eli hater. I love Eli and he is unquestionably my favorite player of this era. The difference is, I'm sick of losing and looking forward to the future, not trying to relive the past in desperation. There is too much baggage coming with years of losing football and in my eyes we need to bury the past, of which the recent past is as ugly as we've seen in a long long time, so that we can focus on the future. Even if it means taking a small step back so we can move forward.
I'm starting to understand why the Giants organization  
Motley Two : 12/4/2018 8:57 am : link
started to fetishize all things Green Bay over the past several years, half their fanbase is gay for Aaron Rodgers.
Rodgers has had a much better supporting cast over the  
JCin332 : 12/4/2018 9:07 am : link
course of his career than Eli...
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 12/4/2018 9:08 am : link
In comment 14204978 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14204968 christian said:


Quote:


The cumulative satisfaction of the 2 championships makes being a Giants fan over the span of Manning's career more enjoyable than being a Packers fan over the span of Rodgers. I don't think anyone can honestly argue against that.

But who the better player is and who's had a better career is a far different story and should be measured by different criteria.

Winning 2 rings isn't a career measurement. No one thinks Jim Punket had better career than Steve Young, right?



Morning buddy. No sane fan would ever argue that Eli is or has been better or comparable to Rodgers over their respective careers. You can’t. I don’t know of anyone who would


Completely agree. Tangent, but I feel like some fans feel like they need to be hyperbolic about Manning, as if his career and achievements alone don't make him great. He is a great quarterback, who's achieved so much.

He's just had the misfortune, reputation wise of playing through 2 eras of fantastic QB play. But who's played at the same time is just background noise to me.

The undisputed quality he should be remembered for is being the toughest QB of his era. He doesn't get nearly enough praise for that.
The definition of insanity.....  
Doomster : 12/4/2018 9:11 am : link
Doomster : 8:40 am : link : reply
Also Chris and yes I will take shit for this,
Big Blue '56 : 8:20 am : link : reply
I will always take an Eli over a Marino, Rodgers and Brees because he has as many SB wins than those QBs combined, even if they are/were better QBs over a career..

You are correct! That is much better!
RE: Rodgers doesnt take the  
Tuckrule : 12/4/2018 9:11 am : link
In comment 14204887 CromartiesKid21 said:
Quote:
play given in front of him anymore; all he tries to do is play hero ball and look for the big shot downfield while taking sacks and not sustaining drives.


So you basically took a packer caller who called into boomer and carton and regurgitated it as your own thoughts. You even used “hero ball” and the “big shot down field”. Exactly how the caller said it. Man I wish people would either give credit or not post others peoples shit as their own.
RE: Rodgers has had a much better supporting cast over the  
Default : 12/4/2018 9:14 am : link
In comment 14204995 JCin332 said:
Quote:
course of his career than Eli...

lol that so laughably untrue
outside of Jordy Nelson, Rodgers has had a rotating cast of nobodies at WR/TE/RB, not to mention horrible defenses

that statement doesn’t put Eli in a better light, it puts guys like Cruz, Burress, Beckham, Nicks, Steve Smith, and Jacobs/Bradshaw in a worse light
Could never understand why this is such a charged topic  
jcn56 : 12/4/2018 9:34 am : link
When it's all said and done, Rodgers might end up being one of the best to ever play the position.

Eli's not as good as Rodgers. He's also not as good as Brady. So what? Does that somehow take away from his career or accomplishments, that he doesn't directly measure up against two of the best to ever play the position?

Strahan was no Reggie White either, but I'm still glad he played in a Giants uniform.
I don't think it has anything to do with Eli....  
Britt in VA : 12/4/2018 9:36 am : link
I think it has more to do with the anointing of Rodgers.
RE: Also a divisional round loss for GB in 2015  
Dinger : 12/4/2018 9:37 am : link
In comment 14204933 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Meaning they won a playoff game that year too.


But here is where you have your cake and want to eat it too. If Rodgers got them to the playoffs so many year, 9 I believe, and he only has one superbowl win and Eli has been there 6 times and has 2 superbowl victories wouldnt that make him a better quarterback? Or are we going to pick and choose when its an organizational issue, a team effort, the competition, or all just on the QB?

Rogers is a great quarterback no doubt. But you have to give Eli credit where its due as well. Even his two SB teams were not world beaters in the regular season. He made some average receivers and TE's better players.
I've always felt it was strange that Aaron Rodgers....  
Britt in VA : 12/4/2018 9:43 am : link
was considered to do it all on his own and elevate his team above their level of play.

The year he actually won the Superbowl, they had the 2nd ranked defense in the NFL.
RE: Rodgers has had a much better supporting cast over the  
MetsAreBack : 12/4/2018 9:44 am : link
In comment 14204995 JCin332 said:
Quote:
course of his career than Eli...


drivel nonsense.

And as far as two championships go, perhaps if Rodgers had defenses that held NE to 14 and 17 points, respectively, things would be different for him.

Instead -- they gave up 51 to Arizona, 37 to NYG, 45 to SF, 44 to ATL. Green Bay has averaged giving up 26.5 points per game in 16 Rodgers playoff games. But by all means, lets pretend Rodgers isnt clutch.
RE: I've always felt it was strange that Aaron Rodgers....  
MetsAreBack : 12/4/2018 9:49 am : link
In comment 14205028 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
was considered to do it all on his own and elevate his team above their level of play.

The year he actually won the Superbowl, they had the 2nd ranked defense in the NFL.


In 2011, the Packers defense averaged giving up 19 points per game during their superbowl run. The following year, the NYG defense averaged giving up 14 points per game.
RE: I've always felt it was strange that Aaron Rodgers....  
Ash_3 : 12/4/2018 9:52 am : link
In comment 14205028 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
was considered to do it all on his own and elevate his team above their level of play.

The year he actually won the Superbowl, they had the 2nd ranked defense in the NFL.


So you're making the same damn argument you make for Eli--that he needs help to succeed. Moreover, Rodgers does make his receivers better. Rodgers has largely enjoyed pretty good offensive lines, but his accuracy and mobility have allowed him to make his offensive cast better than the sum of its parts.

Nearly every football claim you make about other QBs is some shadow claim about Eli or is inconsistent with your own previous defenses of Eli.
Of course he needs help to succeed. Every QB does.  
Britt in VA : 12/4/2018 9:53 am : link
That's why I always find it hilarious how I hear "Aaron Rodgers doesn't need a perfect line like Eli does, Aaron Rodgers would have this roster winning...."

It's all bullsh-t. All QB's need help. Nobody does it on their own.

You act like that's some kind of universal opinion here, it's not.
It's a team game.  
Britt in VA : 12/4/2018 9:54 am : link
Always has been. Always will be.
RE: RE: Also a divisional round loss for GB in 2015  
UberAlias : 12/4/2018 10:03 am : link
In comment 14205022 Dinger said:
Quote:
In comment 14204933 UberAlias said:


Quote:


Meaning they won a playoff game that year too.



But here is where you have your cake and want to eat it too. If Rodgers got them to the playoffs so many year, 9 I believe, and he only has one superbowl win and Eli has been there 6 times and has 2 superbowl victories wouldnt that make him a better quarterback? Or are we going to pick and choose when its an organizational issue, a team effort, the competition, or all just on the QB?

Rogers is a great quarterback no doubt. But you have to give Eli credit where its due as well. Even his two SB teams were not world beaters in the regular season. He made some average receivers and TE's better players.
I'm not comparing their careers. My personal opinion on that matter is that AR covered up a lot of the stink in GB, but that is neither here nor there. My point was that GB is in a downturn, but their recent history going back several years is FAR superior to NYG in every season. Rodgers hasn't been just putting up stats in the past 5 or 6 years, he's winning games in regular season and the playoffs. Now despite his 21:1 TD:INT ratio, the team isn't winning a lot of games. That's not the same as NYG who have been worse and the offense anemic.
I give Eli HUGE amount of credit for both SB wins  
UberAlias : 12/4/2018 10:06 am : link
The problem is, that was a long time ago and the results since have not been good.
RE: I give Eli HUGE amount of credit for both SB wins  
dep026 : 12/4/2018 10:10 am : link
In comment 14205056 UberAlias said:
Quote:
The problem is, that was a long time ago and the results since have not been good.


A lot has gone wrong here.

Eli Needs more help around him than Rodgers does, but suffice it to say Eli hasn’t gotten it from NY and Rodgers certainly hasn’t gotten it from GB.
RE: Also Chris and yes I will take shit for this,  
Greg from LI : 12/4/2018 10:12 am : link
In comment 14204920 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
I will always take an Eli over a Marino, Rodgers and Brees because he has as many SB wins than those QBs combined, even if they are/were better QBs over a career.


You will take shit for it because you will deserve to take shit for it. If you fire up the time machine and put prime Dan Marino on those Giants teams, do you really mean to suggest that they DON'T win with him? Utterly ludicrous.

I've pointed this out before and I'll do so again now: when Marino took over as starter in 1983, the Dolphins still had a great defense, ranked 1st in points allowed and 7th in yards allowed. In year two, when they went to the Super Bowl, they slipped a bit to 7th and 12th. After that? 12/23, 26/26, 16/26, 24/26, 22/24, 4/7, 24/25, 11/10, 24/20, 17/19, 10/16, 17/17, 16/26, 1/3, 19/5. He played almost his entire career with awful defenses, and even when their defense was good in 1990, they allowed 44 points to Buffalo in their playoff loss. Additionally, here are the leading rushers he had over the course of his career: Andra Franklin, Woody Bennett, Tony Nathan, Troy Stradford, Lorenzo Hampton, Sammy Smith, Mark Higgs, Bernie Parmalee, Karim Abdul-Jabbar, JJ Johnson. Abdul-Jabbar in 1996 was the only 1000 yard rusher he ever had. And he never had great receivers, either. Duper and Clayton were good, but hardly Hall of Fame caliber players. Same with Irving Fryar in his later career.

Dan Marino is the poster boy for a franchise wasting its QB with a subpar roster.
RE: RE: Also Chris and yes I will take shit for this,  
dep026 : 12/4/2018 10:14 am : link
In comment 14205062 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14204920 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


I will always take an Eli over a Marino, Rodgers and Brees because he has as many SB wins than those QBs combined, even if they are/were better QBs over a career.



You will take shit for it because you will deserve to take shit for it. If you fire up the time machine and put prime Dan Marino on those Giants teams, do you really mean to suggest that they DON'T win with him? Utterly ludicrous.

I've pointed this out before and I'll do so again now: when Marino took over as starter in 1983, the Dolphins still had a great defense, ranked 1st in points allowed and 7th in yards allowed. In year two, when they went to the Super Bowl, they slipped a bit to 7th and 12th. After that? 12/23, 26/26, 16/26, 24/26, 22/24, 4/7, 24/25, 11/10, 24/20, 17/19, 10/16, 17/17, 16/26, 1/3, 19/5. He played almost his entire career with awful defenses, and even when their defense was good in 1990, they allowed 44 points to Buffalo in their playoff loss. Additionally, here are the leading rushers he had over the course of his career: Andra Franklin, Woody Bennett, Tony Nathan, Troy Stradford, Lorenzo Hampton, Sammy Smith, Mark Higgs, Bernie Parmalee, Karim Abdul-Jabbar, JJ Johnson. Abdul-Jabbar in 1996 was the only 1000 yard rusher he ever had. And he never had great receivers, either. Duper and Clayton were good, but hardly Hall of Fame caliber players. Same with Irving Fryar in his later career.

Dan Marino is the poster boy for a franchise wasting its QB with a subpar roster.


This is a pretty good post but I think Duper and Clayton were really good. Simms would have given his left nut for them.
Regardless of football  
Dnew15 : 12/4/2018 10:26 am : link
ability, Eli is a whole lot easier to root for than that douche bag Rodgers.
yes briefly though  
hassan : 12/4/2018 10:27 am : link
regarding duper and clayton.

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