NFT: Realmuto to the Mets gaining traction?

Plays Santa gets traded off the team a few days later.

Because unless they were spending serious coin who is your LF? Some cheap scrub. Realmuto is making about 6, Pollock likely around 15, pen too? The payroll is already at about 149 a good reliever alone is 10+.. and they still don't have a LF unless you're trotting... Lagares out there? Yuck.

the Wright stuff for a second Realmuto would put the Mets payroll at roughly 155 million, Pollock.. 170? I mean Barring MAJOR payroll additions there is no way to add Realmuto AND Pollock AND Pen and replace Nimmo with anything resembling a real CO and there isn't a single internal option.

another trade like this, payroll needs to be $175M+. Likely more like $185M.

Agreed that OF would be a huge hole. It�s already an issue even with our current guys.

appears imminent m.

didn�t realize that payroll was already that high Dan.

pricey is that:

-He's been historically streaky. If you check his splits out he goes wildly up and down. He will go entire months without hitting a lick.

-He's much better from the left side. We have a ton of lefty bats at this point. I was hoping C was the one spot we could get a RH in.

-QO. Losing the second pick and IFA pool money will hurt, especially after the Cano deal.

For all these reasons, I probably still like Ramos more, but he's older and likely doesnt have a lot of runway left.

roughly 149 with arbitration eligible players (and Wright) per Cots.

Nimmo, Amed, or Conforto for Realmuto. He's a really good player, but his addition alone coupled with the loss of any of the other three does not make the team any better. And if there are asking for more on top, it's an even worse trade.

(AND I STILL DONT WANT TO TRADE NIMMO) is if you do in fact sign Harper.

Dan's right. Signing a catcher and a "Pollock" for example and then a SU man are going to blow our payroll up pretty quick. I think that's one of the reasons why the Cano/Diaz deal was appealing. If you add Realmuto for say Conforto... once again... you are adding almost no payroll for 2019 purposes.

That ONLY makes sense if you are gearing up for a huge Harper run though. Literally the only way I could justify it. Any other way, and Im storming Citi with a pitch fork.

but I think BVW is following his premise that he wants reliable producers and less ''ifs'. Nimmo I consider a bit of an "if". Will he match last year's performance, who knows? Conforto has more of a track record, and Rosario's upside is great. Nimmo is better than anything the Braves are offering. I give Marlins Nimmo, Gimenez and Peterson OR if you want to lower prospect hit, maybe take back Chen for Vargas. You can do Nimmo, Peterson and Vargas for Realmuto and Chen. I want to hold on to the real young prospects like Newton, Vientos (who I think is the big star in 3 years), Santana, Mauricio, and Szapucki. Everything else is open game.

To Dan's point about Realmuto having only 2 years. I think you can re-sign him and deGrom. And you trade players like Syndergaard, Matz, Conforto, Rosario prior to their free agencies, suck for a 2 years, and then re-stock like the Yankees did.

too big in my opinion. He had a pretty low WAR, and is too inconsistent to invest $300 million. Beltran when he signed was a much lower risk, he had 5 straight years of 4+ WAR, and was ascending.. Harper had a 10 WAR season, but 2 of his last 3 seasons were less than 2 WAR. I just rather spread that money around. I also think they are interested in creating a winning culture, not sure Bryce is that.

And come on man... We can say Harper is unlikely or going to command too much money without shitting on him. He just turned in a wRC+ 135, 34 HR, 100 RBI season and that's a "down year". He just turned 26 and has a CAREER wRC+ of 140 and he's accumulated almost 31 WAR already. He is easily one of the best players in baseball not named Trout.

as much as prospects get overrated, the few who hit are a massive values that justify overvaluing them as a whole (since it's impossible to predict hits/misses). Hitting on just a few JDG/Thor/Nimmo/Confortos is a HUGE value boon in terms of cheap years of control compared to getting 1 or 2 years of Realmuto vs. waiting for him in FA.

Cano is on the books for $20m in 2021-2023. We know JDG, Thor, and Wheeler could combine for $60m in AAV by then. Diaz Conforto and Nimmo, even if just in arbitration, won't be cheap. Right now is when they need to sustain and develop as much talent as humanly possible in the minors so they have cheap talent to fill the roster down the road. Gimenez, Alonso, Vientos, Mauricio, Kay, Peterson, SWR, Szapucki - that's when we will need those guys to come through and fill holes a minimum salaries. That's where Kelenic as a 5 tool CF hurts to give up most bc he was unique in the system.

They also need to start hoarding as many high upside arms in the event they need to replace JDG/Thor/Wheeler over the next several seasons.

So just sign Pollock....or Grandal....or do salary swap trades for guys like Cervelli/Martin - and try to minimize the crossover of the contracts with Cano's last 3 years (ideally 3 years or less).

1 exception to the above - if the Angels are willing to discuss Andrelton, I'd listen. He is a total unicorn and a gamechanger defensively. Practically every time we played that guy he did something nobody else can do. The time to get him may be in-season though if the angels are out of it. I don't think I'd do Rosario for Simmons right now, but if Rosario starts slow again and Gimenez is looking good in the minors maybe that's more doable.

IMO

That�s a tough guy to trade. Unless the Giminez kid is the real deal and close to being ready.

They might be thinking of doing it because they�ve already sent Martino out there saying a scout said Giminez could play now. lol

If you�re the Marlins. Rosario is a no brainer for a catcher you can�t re-sign

In comment 14206179 Rflairr said:

Quote:

That�s a tough guy to trade. Unless the Giminez kid is the real deal and close to being ready. They might be thinking of doing it because they�ve already sent Martino out there saying a scout said Giminez could play now. lol If you�re the Marlins. Rosario is a no brainer for a catcher you can�t re-sign

Gimenez is not close. Second half best case. Okay AA numbers, struggled in the AFL.

is a package headed by Nimmo better than what the Braves have been offering (Riley/Soroka)?

In comment 14206182 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 14206179 Rflairr said: Quote: That�s a tough guy to trade. Unless the Giminez kid is the real deal and close to being ready. They might be thinking of doing it because they�ve already sent Martino out there saying a scout said Giminez could play now. lol If you�re the Marlins. Rosario is a no brainer for a catcher you can�t re-sign Gimenez is not close. Second half best case. Okay AA numbers, struggled in the AFL.

I agree. But just an example of how I think they leak stuff to Martino

In comment 14206184 CMicks3110 said:

Quote:

is a package headed by Nimmo better than what the Braves have been offering (Riley/Soroka)?

For the Marlins? No. They won't be good this year so it's at best 3 years of Nimmo "mattering" so you're talking 5 and 6 years of control vs. 2 or 3 where you hope Nimmo matters. That said the rumored ask is Nimmo AND top prospects/Rosario so that tilts the scales. But if the Mets were bad like the Marlins Riley/Soroka is a much better package than Nimmo (again this isn't a knock on Nimmo) rather years of control for 2 young players. Soroka looked fantastic during his limited run with the Braves.. at 20.


Your boy is with me by the way

Adam Fisher
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Replying to @Kyle_Suta99 @michaelgbaron
I�d still try to sign a premier catcher like Ramos or Grandal. I think Rosario can be an all-star caliber player but think his defensive ceiling is limited. I wouldn�t trade for Realmuto at these prices.

Reminder... Amed Rosario was the #1 prospect in baseball before 2018 (for @keithlaw) and is 3 full years younger than Nimmo and Conforto. Both of which would not have looked like "Nimmo and Conforto" in the bigs at 21 and 22 years old

Realmuto is a proven commodity, an established productive hitter, who is only 27. At a position where its often difficult to find that level of production. While younger and having shown flashes what the upside on both Nimmo and Roasario? Nimmo will be 26 when the season starts and whiffs a ton. what is a realistic upside for him?
Similarly Rosario while younger, strikes me a moderate hitting SS. I'm an idiot fan, not a BB scout but he doesn't look to be a potential 20HR/70RBI/270BA guy and he's another 120Ks in the line up.
A wiser man that I said one in the hand is worth two in the bush.

might be easier to flip for prospects if they are looking for long-term value, and I think he's a better player than either Soroka or Riley.

He had a 4.7 WAR last year. Soroka had a 1.44 Whip, and his numbers in the minors were not that stellar. 7/8 per 9 ip K rate. Sure he's 21, but he didn't have the stuff Syndergaard had when he was traded for Dickey.

Dickey in 2012 had a 5.7 WAR and needed to be re-signed, and the Blue Jays were in a win-now mode, similar to the Mets in this situation.

Mets netted a top prospect at the time (d'arnaud) and a good prospect at the time (syndergaard). Thor turned out to be better than advertised, but he was ranked #93 in all of baseball in 2012.

Realmuto had a 4.3 WAR, and has 2 years of control, and has been a consistently 2-4 WAR player over the past few years. The Marlins are clearly over valuing him.

If i'm brodie and i'm selling this to the Marlins I'm saying you need to move quickly before the catcher market dries up and their stuck with no suitors. I don't think the Sandy, wait out the market approach will work in this situation for either side.

all due respect you are making it sound like Nimmo for Realmuto is something the Marlins seem to be considering. They want 2 of Nimmo/Conforto/Rosario and that's a really bad deal.

The Mets have 2 legit MLB starting OF on the roster as it is, 1 legit SS. Unless you are spending MUCH more money than years past and going bonkers the roster doesn't improve, you're just moving pieces around. Fact remains the Mets payroll should they make "this" trade would already be higher than last season MINUS a SS and an OF or 2 OF. Good luck fielding a good team.

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#Mets are pushing hard for #Marlins Realmuto but package will be much stronger than just Nimmo according to sources on both sides

Jim Bowden
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#Marlins asking price for Realmuto from #Mets has been Conforto and Rosario ++....too steep for #Mets.....they'll do Nimmo + but so far not enuf for #Marlins ....as talks continue...


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According to a source #Marlins would not have interest in a #Mets Nimmo for Realmuto trade�they would need either Amed Rosario or Michael Conforto to start


So it's not really even worth discussing Nimmo for Realmuto.

But the two sides remained far apart on Tuesday, according to an industry source, based largely on the Mets� reluctance to include Michael Conforto in a deal. The Mets appear willing to use Brandon Nimmo as the centerpiece for the trade, but that likely would not be enough to get Realmuto. The Mets could also look to use Amed Rosario in a deal.

Realmuto, who is under club control for another two seasons, recently informed Marlins officials through his representatives that he won�t re-sign with Miami. Realmuto is represented by CAA � the same firm Brodie Van Wagenen co-headed before becoming Mets general manager in October.

The Marlins have sought high-level prospects for Realmuto, but the Mets� farm system just took a hit after the team sent Jarred Kelenic and Justin Dunn to the Mariners as part of the trade for Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz.


So the Mets starting SS would be... again this just doesn't make sense. Sign Grandal or Ramos and keep what you have.

what it's worth Steamer projects Realmuto and Grandal to be equal players by fWAR in 2019

In comment 14206184 CMicks3110 said:

Quote:

is a package headed by Nimmo better than what the Braves have been offering (Riley/Soroka)?

It all depends on who the second piece is. BA just put out their top 10 Braves prospect list and Riley was now their #1 prospect. Soroka is a top 25 prospect who played extremely well in the majors last year despite being the youngest player in the league until his injury. Now if the injury isn't a big deal at all then the Braves offer is more attractive especially when you consider the cheap 6 years of control for each.

I would be livid if the Braves traded both for 2 years of Realmuto when they could just go out and sign either Grandal or Ramos.

In comment 14206205 CMicks3110 said:

Quote:

might be easier to flip for prospects if they are looking for long-term value, and I think he's a better player than either Soroka or Riley. He had a 4.7 WAR last year. Soroka had a 1.44 Whip, and his numbers in the minors were not that stellar. 7/8 per 9 ip K rate. Sure he's 21, but he didn't have the stuff Syndergaard had when he was traded for Dickey. Dickey in 2012 had a 5.7 WAR and needed to be re-signed, and the Blue Jays were in a win-now mode, similar to the Mets in this situation. Mets netted a top prospect at the time (d'arnaud) and a good prospect at the time (syndergaard). Thor turned out to be better than advertised, but he was ranked #93 in all of baseball in 2012. Realmuto had a 4.3 WAR, and has 2 years of control, and has been a consistently 2-4 WAR player over the past few years. The Marlins are clearly over valuing him. If i'm brodie and i'm selling this to the Marlins I'm saying you need to move quickly before the catcher market dries up and their stuck with no suitors. I don't think the Sandy, wait out the market approach will work in this situation for either side.

You are seriously downplaying Soroka's minor league performance.
In 2016 in Single A at 18 he had a 2.78 FIP
in 2017 in AA at 19 he had a 3.19 FIP
in 2018 in AAA at 20 he had a 1.78 FIP
Also in 2018 in MLB as the youngest player in the league he had a 2.85 FIP and a 0.6 fWar in only 25.2 innings. Over 200 innings that works out to a 4.8 fWAR for the youngest player in baseball.

That every contender wishes to have. His enthusiasm rubs off on his teammates.

That intangible isn�t going to be reflected on his stats

The Marlins will find a way to fuck this up.

They aren�t in the drivers seat here. They can ask for the moon, and rightfully so, but sooner or later they are going to have to settle for less.

either Rosario or Gimenez will be traded. Mets love Gimenez. And talk of moving Rosario to CF is foolish.

For Realmuto I'd trade Rosario. Add a catching prospect, but no Nimmo or Conforto.

Sing Ramos and Grandal. Trading valuable pieces for a catcher scares me. I�d rather risk the money than the prospects on a catcher.

Sign Grandal or Ramos
Sign Miller plus to beef up bullpen.
Sign an OF and utility guy.

I�d love Harper or Machado but I just don�t see it.

I would demand either Conforto or Rosario plus one of Mauricio or Vientos. That or Gimenez, Mauricio, Vientos, Szpaucki.

In comment 14206310 ZGiants98 said:

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They aren�t in the drivers seat here. They can ask for the moon, and rightfully so, but sooner or later they are going to have to settle for less.

Their idiots for passing on Soroka and Riley. I am mad the Braves actually offered this AGAIN. This is the same package they offered at the deadline. I hope the Braves took this offer off the table because the Marlins will probably come back to them once nobody offers anything better.

Their = They're

or Rosario would be pretty shitty for Realmuto. He's good, but is he really that good?

Jeffy has a major hard on for him, so I do worry. Major, major hardon. Hopefully bvw is doing this to appease Jeffy and show him how insane the ask is. Hopefully.

In comment 14206316 Csonka said:

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either Rosario or Gimenez will be traded. Mets love Gimenez. And talk of moving Rosario to CF is foolish. For Realmuto I'd trade Rosario. Add a catching prospect, but no Nimmo or Conforto.

Sadly the Mets do not have a catching prospect. Their best C prospect is 16 year old they just signed for the biggest bonus they have ever given out and has yet to play a game. Otherwise they do no have a C in the system that projects to be a starter.

I still think this system is middle of the pack and has enough talent that it could rise from there, especially if they do well in the draft again, but if they deal from it any more it's going to be bottom of the league real quick.
Mets top 10 + top u25 - ( New Window )

we can't complain about the Mets sitting around and doing nothing?

and that's a hole that's hard to fill in FA since the best available SS is probably iglesias? He actually isn't a terrible idea as a placeholder for a couple years but why not use that time to see if Rosario puts it together? He's probably still the best 5 tool talent in the entire org and he only just turned 23.

In comment 14206356 JayBinQueens said:

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we can't complain about the Mets sitting around and doing nothing?

yea it's definitely a lot more interesting.

to win now in a heartbeat, but you shouldn't have to overpay on trades like Cano or Realmuto where the acquiring team has some leverage.

Speaking of Cano, did anyone read the article this morning by Rosenthal that the Mets team doctor (Altchek?) performed knee surgery on Cano this off-season (minor surgery it sounded like but it sounded odd the M's team doctor wouldn't have done it he was still a member of the Mariners - I didn't read past the headline)?

In comment 14206362 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

to win now in a heartbeat, but you shouldn't have to overpay on trades like Cano or Realmuto where the acquiring team has some leverage. Speaking of Cano, did anyone read the article this morning by Rosenthal that the Mets team doctor (Altchek?) performed knee surgery on Cano this off-season (minor surgery it sounded like but it sounded odd the M's team doctor wouldn't have done it he was still a member of the Mariners - I didn't read past the headline)?

Altchek does work for other teams as well. He did Didi's TJ for example. This isn't unusual.

Rookie maximums for at-bats (130), games pitched (30) or innings (50) in the major leagues"

If the 2 leaders are within 5% of each other, or the leader has less than 30% there will be a run-off between the top 2. If a run-off results in a tie the tiebreaker will be vote total in the previous poll, we will continue to "go back" in the polls until there is a clear leader.

*Jeff McNeil is ineligible
*Chris Flexen is ineligible
*Drew Smith is ineligible
*Tyler Bashlor is ineligible

1) Andres Gimenez (SS) AA 19/37 votes- 51%
2) Peter Alonso (1B) AAA 24/36 votes- 67%
3) Ronny Mauricio (SS) Kingsport 12/33-36%
4) Mark Vientos (3b) Kingsport 16/31-52%
5) David Peterson (LHP) A+ 21/31- 68%
6) Franklyn Kilome (RHP) AA 20/33-61%
7) Thomas Szapucki (LHP) A 18/32-56%
8) Shervyen Newton (SS) Kingsport 12/30-40%, Run-off with Anthony Kay 17/33-52%
9) Anthony Kay (LHP) AA 18/26-69%
10) Simeon Woods-Richardson (RHP) Kingsport 12/30-40%
11) Luis Santana (2B) 15/26-58%
12) Will Toffey (3B) 10/29-34%, run-off with Cecchini 15/27-56%
13) Gavin Cecchini (2b) 14/26-46%
14) Francisco Alvarez (C) 9/26-35%
15) Dez Lindsay (OF) 7/18-39%
16) Tony Dibrell (RHP) 9/23-39%
17) Jordan Humphreys (RHP) 7/21-33%, Run-off with Nido 18/24-75%
18) Ross Adolph (OF) 6/25-24%, run-off with Nido 18/25-72%
19) Adam Hill (RHP) 4/26-15%, Run-off with Nido/Crismatt 11/26-58%
20) Junior Santos (RHP) 6/28-21%, Run-off with Nido 11/20-55%
21) Tomas Nido (C) 10/23-43%
22) Luis Guillorme (SS) 9/24-38%
23) Adrian Hernandez 6/26-23%, run-off with Wahl/Cortes 8/15-53%
24) Carlos Cortes (2b) 8/21-38%
25) Steven Villines (RHP) 4/16 25%, Run-off with Thompson/Wahl 9/23-39%
26) David Thompson (3b) 8/23-35%
27) Ali Sanchez (C) 9/17-53%
28) Bobby Wahl (RHP) 11/25-44%
29) Eric Hanhold (RHP) 7/21-33%, run-off 7/20-35%
30) Luis Carpio (IF) 4/18-22%, runoff with Uriarte 9/14-64%
31) Stanley Consuegra (OF) 4/20-20%, runoff with Uriarte/Valdez 6/17-35%, advances due to more votes in previous poll
32) Juan Uriarte (C) 4/19-21%
33) Freddy Valdez (OF) 7/17-41%

In comment 14206362 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

to win now in a heartbeat, but you shouldn't have to overpay on trades like Cano or Realmuto where the acquiring team has some leverage. Speaking of Cano, did anyone read the article this morning by Rosenthal that the Mets team doctor (Altchek?) performed knee surgery on Cano this off-season (minor surgery it sounded like but it sounded odd the M's team doctor wouldn't have done it he was still a member of the Mariners - I didn't read past the headline)?

has happened a lot in basketball with the nets team doc (O'Malley) at HSS performing surgery on almost every major leg injury. Believe he did both Durant and Paul George. Obviously everyone always goes and sees andrews. I think it's common that there are a few "go to guys" for each sport.

said before the Cano deal their analytics projected an 83 win team. I'd love to know where they see 6 games of improvement vs. last year's 77 without a closer on the roster.

Also said they now believe the trade pushes them into the upper 80's and they may be 1 or 2 moves from 90's. Obviously not surprising, but very typical wilponian rose covered glasses. I think he'd be in for a real surprise if the season started today bc I think 80 wins might even be a little overly optimistic as they are configured right now.

In comment 14206402 Eric on Li said:

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said before the Cano deal their analytics projected an 83 win team. I'd love to know where they see 6 games of improvement vs. last year's 77 without a closer on the roster. Also said they now believe the trade pushes them into the upper 80's and they may be 1 or 2 moves from 90's. Obviously not surprising, but very typical wilponian rose covered glasses. I think he'd be in for a real surprise if the season started today bc I think 80 wins might even be a little overly optimistic as they are configured right now.

Considering the second half team played over .500 without a closer and it�s setup men, without Cespedes, I�m guessing that�s where. The second half team with McNeil, Nimmo, Conforto, and Rosario leading the way was better than the first. I�d also expect better and more consistent seasons from Syndergaard and Wheeler. Wheeler isn�t gong to go through a rough start (6 weeks again) and hopefully Thor doesn�t have any nagging finger stuff, etc.