This isn’t meant to be a pro-Eli or anti-Eli thread. It’s just an honest question with regards to the state of the Giants offense 3/4 through the season.
I listened to The Ringer NFL podcast today where Mike Lombardi said the Giants would be competing for the NFC East if they had better QB play. I see tweets every week of plays where WR’s are running free and Eli is not seeing them.
On the other side, he can still make the throws (should have had a game winner in OT last week). He played nearly perfect games in Houston & against TB. We all know the status of the OL from earlier this year.
Where do you fall with regards to Eli’s impact on the overall success of the 2018 Giants?
He can't get them the ball? So who is he completing passes to 68% of the time he manages to throw one then? Are those imaginary receivers?
SS is so underrated. He's not being used the right way because we barely get him the ball. Every WR has drops, can we acknowledge that? Or is it ok only to acknowledge that every QB has INT's so we shouldn't hold Eli accountable?
Engram has been disappointing, but again, we are not using him to the best of his abilities. He's a guy that will do damage in space, but we just can't get him the ball. Our QB looks for a read and then starts hearing footsteps, makes it kind of hard. Also makes it hard for receivers when they don't get consistent looks.
So on one hand you say OBJ is set for some career highs, but on the other hand he's only been good. Can you explain?
1. Well we brought in a MLB that everyone seemed pretty stoked about. We had some quality guys returning. I think many peoiple thought the defense would be at least better than 2017. Maybe not 2016, but definitely not this bad.
2. SS is a solid player. EE has been bad. But if they are being used wrong - thats coaching.
As far as OBJ. He's been good. Great? In some games he has been. I dont think he has been bad. I dont think he has hurt the Giants whatsoever. I understand teams are taking him away with bracket coverages and double teams. I dont think he has had the impact like Barkley. I know many of the posters here will blame Eli not getting him or missing him a few times. Thats fine.
But he has been our 2nd best player. I see nothing wrong with that.
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You literally can't worry about 'what if?' You could play the what if game for the next 10 years. So, keep Eli for the next decade?
People really, really overthink this. I've never seen anything like this before ever.
My what "ifs" were in response to the prior odd stance.
This isnt hard. You replace Eli when you find the right person to do so. If its through the draft, FA, trade, or whatever. You jsut dont replace him to replace him though. That makes absolutely no sense.
So if it means you replace him in 2020, then thats when it will be. We arent a QB away from contending. So if there is an edge rusher or OL that grade out higher than a QB, you take them.
You're right. I've never seen anything like this before either.
"When the right person is there to do so."
But as you said, you never know for sure. Any QB can be the next Gabbert. So, maybe since they'll never know for sure and any player can bust at anytime, they should just trade the picks for proven NFL players. The mindset makes no sense.
The one fact is that only constant on this team/offense for the past 6-7 years now is Eli. The head coach has been changed multiple times. New coaching staff. New GM. The OL has been turned over again. New WRs. New RB. New TE. Literally everything is new except the one constant.
No. But by that mindset, no QB ever should lose his job, or retire, or get traded ever.
2 underperforming cancerous players for a legit MLB team leader? To go along with former ALL-PRO members and highly paid players? I thought they would be better than this. You're selling that you thought they would be this bad?
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doesnt mean they are better, right?
No. But by that mindset, no QB ever should lose his job, or retire, or get traded ever.
No, he is going too. It could be this offseason. It could be in 2020.
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so last year we had one of the worst defenses in the NFL. We got rid of JPP and DRC and brought in Ogletree and everyone thought we'd have a good defnese? Is that what you are selling?
This defense had one good corner back, a bunch of unproven players in the secondary and unproven pass rushers, and you thought they’d be better?
2 underperforming cancerous players for a legit MLB team leader? To go along with former ALL-PRO members and highly paid players? I thought they would be better than this. You're selling that you thought they would be this bad?
Jenkins - pro bowler
Apple - first round pick
Collins - all pro
unproven FS/Nickel.
They should have been a lot better than what they became.
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so last year we had one of the worst defenses in the NFL. We got rid of JPP and DRC and brought in Ogletree and everyone thought we'd have a good defnese? Is that what you are selling?
2 underperforming cancerous players for a legit MLB team leader? To go along with former ALL-PRO members and highly paid players? I thought they would be better than this. You're selling that you thought they would be this bad?
I'm not sure what they really did to improve. I don't think JPP is cancerous either. I never thought Ogletree was going to turn us from a terrible defense to a great defense. I expected maybe marginal improvement. The offense has been way more disappointing to me. We have way too much talent at the skill position players to be this inept.
Did you expect the defense to give up more PPG this year than last year? I am sorry, but thats a really tough sell for me.
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He’s not the same QB. He’s likely not getting any better and isn’t good enough to carry this team?
What if he is completely unplayable next year? Another wasted year without a successor on the roster.
It might get worse replacing him but it’s not likely to get better with him.
Here’s what will happen:
Well keep Eli and improve the oline. Continue to struggle. And Shurmur will get the blame for holding Eli back.
What if we improve the OL and he plays better? What if we improve the OL and Barkley becomes virtually unstoppable?
What if we draft the next Lockear, Mariota, or Blaine Gabbert?
The medium-term future of the Giants is completely dependent on whether the management believes they can improve the talent of the team to championship level in the window of good play Manning has left.
Looking at the number of positions that are deeply flawed on this team going into the off-season; RT, RG, C, WR depth, TE, FS, SS, CB depth, DE/Edge -- I don't see those two windows aligning.
The Giants will get better with some better players and build on this year, health permitting. Doesn't need to be "what if." But does that get you into the championship conversation?
You see the paradox there, right?
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so last year we had one of the worst defenses in the NFL. We got rid of JPP and DRC and brought in Ogletree and everyone thought we'd have a good defnese? Is that what you are selling?
What he is selling, is anything that he can say, to make it seem reasonable(only to him) to keep trotting Eli out htere for the rest of this year, next year, and until the next Aaron Rodgers or sure thing is available(will never happen).
Pretty much
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so last year we had one of the worst defenses in the NFL. We got rid of JPP and DRC and brought in Ogletree and everyone thought we'd have a good defnese? Is that what you are selling?
What he is selling, is anything that he can say, to make it seem reasonable(only to him) to keep trotting Eli out htere for the rest of this year, next year, and until the next Aaron Rodgers or sure thing is available(will never happen).
lol. Wow.
Yes. Yes, I think he did his job well against the Bears. The same Bears that have 2 players in the defensive backfield in the top 5 for interceptions. The interception going to Kyle Fuller who has the 2nd most interceptions. The Bears who have one of the best defenses in the league.
I'm not saying Eli is some great QB but he's not holding the team back either. He's in the middle of the pack and I don't see anyone better available or coming up in the 2019 draft. Don't see it from last year's draft class either.
He might be, but it sure as heck won't be a shoo in choice like so many other QBs of his generation, like Peyton, Brees, Brady, Big Ben, Rivers, Rodgers... The stats just don't shine bright enough for Eli relative to his peers, and every one who watches football knows that except us Giants fans.
Eli has been great at moments, and he's been incredibly heroic in certain games, like his play in the arctic cold NFC championship over Favre in Green Bay, and in the rain versus Harbaugh's brutal 9ers D in SF. The real Road Warrior.
But he hasn't been a great QB over vast expanses of his career. The team's record with him starting is barely above .500... And it's not all been on his supporting staff.
But give him an OL, with two great future HOF team mates like OBJ and Saquon Barkley, and
Eli will be fine. He hasn't lost that much from who he was when he won Lombardi trophies.
He wasn't great then, and he won't need to be great in 2019. Give him an OL to protect him, and let Saquon and Odell be the superstars.
Let Eli be Eli, "cool as the other side of the pillow" and he will be enough.