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Old Farts’ thread: Compare the ‘56-‘62 front 4 with others.

Big Blue '56 : 12/5/2018 5:41 pm
Andy Robustelli, Dick Modzelewski, Rosy Grier and Jim Katcavage were one of the best front 4s I’ve seen in my lifetime. They have always been respected, but rarely (imo) were they ever given their just due amongst the other all-time revered groups.

As I’ve said several times before, Little Mo and Rosy kept Huff clean, much like Siragusa and Adams with Lewis. Huff was a worthy HOFer, but a lot of his success with the Giants was greatly aided by Mo and Rosy, imo.

Thoughts?
I didn't realize Rosey Grier  
Vanzetti : 12/5/2018 7:21 pm : link
was working security when Bobby Kennedy was shot and took the gun from Sirhan Sirhan.

Am I the only person who did not know this?
A Comparable Group --The Colts  
clatterbuck : 12/5/2018 7:33 pm : link
of that era, Art Donovan, Gino Marchetti, Gene Lipscomb -- can't remember the other DE -- but they were really good. Never understood why Giants traded Grier for a lesser player, LoVetere. He had good years left. It was sad seeing Robustelli, Kat, Little Mo at the end of their careers. And I agree that Huff benefitted from having those guys in front of him during the Glory Years. My recollection is that the "Fearsome Foursome" term orginated in NY with Robustelli, Kat, Little Mo and Grier, but maybe I'm making that up.
Sacks Weren't a Stat Back Then,  
clatterbuck : 12/5/2018 7:35 pm : link
an estimate of how many that group recorded would be interesting.
The Giants d-line probably was given credit at the time UNTIL  
Ivan15 : 12/5/2018 9:17 pm : link
the Giants couldn't win the big one against the Colts or Packers.

Robustelli, Grier, Little Mo and Katkavage were a very good line, but they proved to be too small and light when they faced the Packers. Robustelli and Katkavage in particular were very light (230 lbs. and 235 lbs. as I recall) and were no match for the bigger and faster Packers guards and the Green Bay Sweep.

Then, with the Giants defense on the downslide, the Rams Fearsome Foursome came along, with Grier as a big DT.
The Giants d-line probably was given credit at the time UNTIL  
Ivan15 : 12/5/2018 9:18 pm : link
the Giants couldn't win the big one against the Colts or Packers.

Robustelli, Grier, Little Mo and Katkavage were a very good line, but they proved to be too small and light when they faced the Packers. Robustelli and Katkavage in particular were very light (230 lbs. and 235 lbs. as I recall) and were no match for the bigger and faster Packers guards and the Green Bay Sweep.

Then, with the Giants defense on the downslide, the Rams Fearsome Foursome came along, with Grier as a big DT.
Clatterbuck, the other Colt on the front four was Don Joyce, another  
carpoon : 12/5/2018 9:26 pm : link
all pro. He was very,very good.

I think I recall Rosey requesting the trade for the same reason Fred Dryer did later. To try acting and the movies.
.  
Gene : 12/5/2018 9:46 pm : link
The Purple People Eaters  
PatersonPlank : 12/5/2018 10:04 pm : link
and the Fearsome Foursome were the best IMO
In defense of Sam Huff  
Still a Sam Huff fan : 12/5/2018 10:21 pm : link
I am fully aware that nobody is knocking Huff in any way. Did he have his job made easier because of those four great ones? Sure. It’s just like a quarterback is made to look good if he has all day to throw the ball. The lines, if really good will make the rest of the team excel. Just think about how goos Dick Lynch and Jimmy Patton were made to look with the QB being rushed.

With that said, I can close my eyes and still see Sam Huff with his arms around Jimmy Brown’s legs. I think his strength to the team was in calling defensive signals and tackling the opposition’s leading runner. God he did that well.
RE: A Comparable Group --The Colts  
hankb1126 : 12/6/2018 3:16 am : link
In comment 14207028 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
of that era, Art Donovan, Gino Marchetti, Gene Lipscomb -- can't remember the other DE -- but they were really good. Never understood why Giants traded Grier for a lesser player, LoVetere. He had good years left. It was sad seeing Robustelli, Kat, Little Mo at the end of their careers. And I agree that Huff benefitted from having those guys in front of him during the Glory Years. My recollection is that the "Fearsome Foursome" term orginated in NY with Robustelli, Kat, Little Mo and Grier, but maybe I'm making that up.
i think the other de was ordell braase
Huff was still a force when he went to the Redskins.  
CT Charlie : 12/6/2018 6:48 am : link
Deserving Hall of Famer. It's a shame he's another guy with dementia possibly related to CTE.
RE: Huff was still a force when he went to the Redskins.  
Big Blue '56 : 12/6/2018 6:52 am : link
In comment 14207182 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
Deserving Hall of Famer. It's a shame he's another guy with dementia possibly related to CTE.


Sam Huff fan, agree. Charlie, I think his best years arguably were with the Skins
Ivan,  
Big Blue '56 : 12/6/2018 6:53 am : link
Quote:


Robustelli and Katkavage in particular were very light (230 lbs. and 235 lbs. as I recall) and were no match for the bigger and faster Packers guards and the Green Bay Sweep.



Who was? 😊😊
Robustelli and Katkavage were good, but when I looked at the rosters  
Ivan15 : 12/6/2018 8:06 am : link
Just by weight alone, the Giants big DTs and Huff had made running inside very difficult, but the smallish DEs made the Giants vulnerable to sweeps and off-tackle plays.

I think Lombardi actually built the Packers to attack the Giants (Landry designed) Defense.
Rosey Brown  
yalebowl : 12/6/2018 8:29 am : link
Came in as the fifth lineman when they were in a goal line defense
This line was pretty good...  
yalebowl : 12/6/2018 8:34 am : link
Leonard Marshall, Jim Burt, George Martin, and on occasion Lawrence Taylor.

RE: Rosey Brown  
Big Blue '56 : 12/6/2018 8:38 am : link
In comment 14207218 yalebowl said:
Quote:
Came in as the fifth lineman when they were in a goal line defense


They also brought in Jack Stroud
A Frank Gifford quote  
prh : 12/6/2018 9:00 am : link
Quote:
“If they made one of their famous goal-line stands, we’d hear about it for a week,” Gifford remembered. “Or if they recovered a fumble, Sam might walk by me as I started onto the field and say, ‘See if you can hold ’em for a while.’ ”

Giant's fans loved their defense back then.
NY Times article - ( New Window )
Thew early  
PaulN : 12/6/2018 10:08 am : link
60's teams that lost three in a row could have easily won in 62 and 63. The 63 game was lost because YA got hurt in the game, otherwise the Giants would have beat the bears for certain. The 62 game is the game people forget about. The Giants had the most prolific passing game, that game the winds were 30 - 40 mph, made passing impossible, otherwise the Giants could have beat the packers that day.
RE: Sacks Weren't a Stat Back Then,  
since1925 : 12/6/2018 10:21 am : link
In comment 14207029 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
an estimate of how many that group recorded would be interesting.


Sacks wasn't a word back then.
Blitzes  
PaulN : 12/6/2018 10:28 am : link
Were called Red Dogs.
RE: Thew early  
Big Blue '56 : 12/6/2018 11:12 am : link
In comment 14207297 PaulN said:
Quote:
60's teams that lost three in a row could have easily won in 62 and 63. The 63 game was lost because YA got hurt in the game, otherwise the Giants would have beat the bears for certain. The 62 game is the game people forget about. The Giants had the most prolific passing game, that game the winds were 30 - 40 mph, made passing impossible, otherwise the Giants could have beat the packers that day.


Agreed
RE: Thew early  
clatterbuck : 12/6/2018 11:55 am : link
In comment 14207297 PaulN said:
Quote:
60's teams that lost three in a row could have easily won in 62 and 63. The 63 game was lost because YA got hurt in the game, otherwise the Giants would have beat the bears for certain. The 62 game is the game people forget about. The Giants had the most prolific passing game, that game the winds were 30 - 40 mph, made passing impossible, otherwise the Giants could have beat the packers that day.


Yes. Both 62, 63 games played in brutal conditions. Giants were a better team in 63 but the offense couldn't function once Tittle got hurt. As I recall, he tried to play on the bad knee and threw 2-3 picks.
Also, Shofner’s wide open drop in the endzone  
Big Blue '56 : 12/6/2018 12:11 pm : link
which would have put us up 14-0, was the absolute backbreaker in the ‘63 title game
Couple of things  
prh : 12/6/2018 12:52 pm : link
I lived in Bergen County at the time and the game was blacked out locally. Ray Nitschke was the game MVP. He appeared as a contestant on the game show 'What's My Line' that night. Not sure if the panel guessed correctly.
RE: Couple of things  
Big Blue '56 : 12/6/2018 3:31 pm : link
In comment 14207552 prh said:
Quote:
I lived in Bergen County at the time and the game was blacked out locally. Ray Nitschke was the game MVP. He appeared as a contestant on the game show 'What's My Line' that night. Not sure if the panel guessed correctly.


Do you remember when the star of the game at home, appeared on the Ed Sullivan show to take a bow?
'56  
prh : 12/6/2018 3:55 pm : link
Now that you mentioned it. I do recall stars of the game getting recognized. I think he acknowledged other celebrities and well known people of the time too. Thanks for shaking some of the cobwebs out.
Well,  
Doomster : 12/7/2018 7:47 am : link
Thew early
PaulN : 12/6/2018 10:08 am : link : reply
60's teams that lost three in a row could have easily won in 62 and 63. The 63 game was lost because YA got hurt in the game, otherwise the Giants would have beat the bears for certain.

I agree.....the Bears could not move the ball on the Giants that day....it was two ints that killed the Giants....and Shoftner dropping a td in the end zone, didn't help....



The 62 game is the game people forget about. The Giants had the most prolific passing game, that game the winds were 30 - 40 mph, made passing impossible, otherwise the Giants could have beat the packers that day.

The operative word is could, not would.....they were 13-1, Giants were 12-2....Pack had a point differential of 267, while the Giants were 115.....only Detroit, on a Thanksgiving Day, prevented the Pack from going undefeated that year....
I loved that front four too, but after we traded Huff to the Skins,  
Ira : 12/7/2018 8:18 am : link
he still played very well.
RE: Also, Shofner’s wide open drop in the endzone  
clatterbuck : 12/7/2018 1:19 pm : link
In comment 14207481 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
which would have put us up 14-0, was the absolute backbreaker in the ‘63 title game


Wasn't there a dropped TD early in the 61 game, maybe Kyle Rote? Don't think it had too much impact on the outcome of that game, however.
Excellent recall. I am 100% blanking on that.  
Big Blue '56 : 12/7/2018 1:24 pm : link
From Wiki (First Quarter)


Quote:


After both teams exchanged punts, the Giants were on the move to the Green Bay 46-yard line when the Giants end Kyle Rote, who was wide open but looking back into the sun, dropped a long pass from Y. A. Tittle at the GB 10.

When the Packers took over for their 2nd possession, end Max McGee returned the favor by dropping a 50-yard pass from Starr. However, Starr then hit Paul Hornung for a 24-yard gain to midfield. Jim Taylor, despite having injured a kidney in the Rams game two weeks before and Hornung kept the Packers drive moving to the NY 6-yard line as time expired.

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