I’ll start off by saying I am against giving this guy a huge deal even before the injury. It looks like there are a bunch of good FS on the market this coming offseason and this could be a good way to reallocate money to the DL and OL.
Upcoming FS free agents:
Lamarcus Joyner
Earl Thomas
Tyrann Mathieu
HaHa Clinton-Dix
Adrian Phillips (big fan)
Adrian Amos (big fan as well for the price tag compared to Collins)
The money that we can potentially save by letting Collins walk and going out and using the money on someone like a Matt Paradis, the C from Denver, or making a play for Demarcus Lawrence (pipe dream as I’m sure he’ll stay in Dallas), or Clowney or Dee Ford.
Thoughts?
If they can’t work out a deal, then they’ll most likely tag him, imo. Not sure whether they’d prefer the franchise or transitional tag
Mathieu would be awesome, but he's likely going to get close to whatever Collins gets, if not more. Also sounds like the Texans plan to keep him.
Love Earl Thomas, but he's getting up their in age and hasn't played a full 16 games since 2015.
C Matt Paradis might be my top FA target this offseason. Add him, re-sign Brown and they might finally have a solid interior OL. Draft an OT to compete with Wheeler and the arrow might finally be pointing up for the OL.
Lawrence/Clowney are likely franchise tag candidates, though I'd happily grab either if they hit the open market.
Mathieu would be awesome, but he's likely going to get close to whatever Collins gets, if not more. Also sounds like the Texans plan to keep him.
Love Earl Thomas, but he's getting up their in age and hasn't played a full 16 games since 2015.
C Matt Paradis might be my top FA target this offseason. Add him, re-sign Brown and they might finally have a solid interior OL. Draft an OT to compete with Wheeler and the arrow might finally be pointing up for the OL.
Lawrence/Clowney are likely franchise tag candidates, though I'd happily grab either if they hit the open market.
We don't need someone to compete with Wheeler. WE need a replacement. He is not good.
That said, Gettleman has a reputation for not paying defensive backs fwiw.
Collins has been totally exposed as a safety, unless there was a chronic injury no one is talking about. His shoulder may become chronic but that doesn't justify his inability to cover TEs.
If the Giants offer a "Prove it" deal, I doubt he takes it, and his performance the last couple of years under 2 different DCs doesn't justify tagging him.
It would suck to lose him for no return on investment, but it probably will be better that he learns to play LB somewhere else.
A free SS?
In other words, the guy thinks he is already a lot better than he will ever really be and that is his weakness. He thinks that he can just show up on the scene and the runners are going to go down trembling in fear. This season has been one of missed tackles and many failed half assed attempts to bring ballcarriers down or put them out of bounds. I would love to see a breakdown of YAC (yards after Collins) that ballcarriers exploited this guys inability or unwillingness to wrap up. That is why I loved safeties like Terry Kinard and Greg Jackson; their arms were so long they just attached themselves and spun people down if they couldn't get the big hit.
I am anxious to see if this defense is somewhat improved with Collins out. I have a hunch that we might be more sound. We might see people in position better; spaced out better so that there are no gaping holes for a QB to find a wide open receiver. Collins thinks he's like Lawrence Taylor and everybody else is forced to be Harry Carson & Co. covering his ass when he's out of position. LT made plays and that is why they let him continue doing whatever he was doing. He was in the front seven and in the backfield. Collins is out in the open and he gets exposed every week.
He is a self righteous prick about it too. I have never seen him point to himself and own it. Too proud. With his style of play, always looking to land the big hit, I worry about that shoulder. For now the silver lining is the fact that we get to see the defense without him for four games.
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but would try to keep him at a reasonable cost, I feel he is a very good free SS.
A free SS?
whoops good SS
Side note, why did the honey badger only get a 1 year deal at moderate money? Thought he was a pretty well regarded player during his time with AZ.
Hard not to want that guy on your team
I think you bring him back 5 yrs 50 million 25 guaranteed.
If he plays out the deal he will be 29 yrs old.
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Philips or Amos would be interesting if you can get them in the $6-8M per range.
Mathieu would be awesome, but he's likely going to get close to whatever Collins gets, if not more. Also sounds like the Texans plan to keep him.
Love Earl Thomas, but he's getting up their in age and hasn't played a full 16 games since 2015.
C Matt Paradis might be my top FA target this offseason. Add him, re-sign Brown and they might finally have a solid interior OL. Draft an OT to compete with Wheeler and the arrow might finally be pointing up for the OL.
Lawrence/Clowney are likely franchise tag candidates, though I'd happily grab either if they hit the open market.
We don't need someone to compete with Wheeler. WE need a replacement. He is not good.
I mean "compete" in the way Hernandez had to "compete" with Omameh for the starting LG spot (IIRC, WH was 2nd string for minicamp).
My preference would be start day 1 at RT and potentially play LT in 2-3 years.
That said, Gettleman has a reputation for not paying defensive backs fwiw.
It's projected to be at 12 mill., for the FT.
It's good for other players to see someone rewarded when they do things the right way. No one is questioning his effort from what I can tell. He's still young and his most important years are ahead of him. He can do what Bettcher wants at the position. I wouldn't be upset if they paid him as high as $45MM for four years either.
I think people underestimate how valuable he is in his role on this defense.
Big Blue '56 : 11:22 am : link : reply
and when allowed to do what he does best, he’s a terrific player.
Exactly what is it that he does best? Besides missing tackles, lack of coverage skills, and the ability to take himself out of the play....
this shouldn't impact his career. I know all injuries are different but Earl Thomas had a torn shoulder labrum after the 2014 season and had no further issues with the shoulder (he has had subsequent leg injuries but those are unrelated)
I think this is the right point. Bettcher hasn't used Collins as well as Spags did. That would seem to be on the coaches and not the player. Collins is awesome in the box. Top 5 at that. I keep him and go after a FS in the first couple of rounds in the draft.
His shoulder injury might reduce his market value to the point where we could afford to bring him back on a one year 'prove it" deal. But I wouldn't be surprised if a team with a lot of cap space overpays for him to the point where we have to let him leave.
I'm guessing $12M+. It's not a crazy number, especially with the cap expanding faster and faster every year, but Collins has such a glaring hole in his game. And the league exploits it.
Roy Williams was very similar, albeit a FS. Could lay the wood but could be exploited in the passing game - big time.
Don’t see why we couldn’t sign the Honey Badger or Early T. Thomas isn’t a kid but either could be veteran leaders at a position that tends to allow for experience.
Big Blue '56 : 11:22 am : link : reply
and when allowed to do what he does best, he’s a terrific player.
Exactly what is it that he does best? Besides missing tackles, lack of coverage skills, and the ability to take himself out of the play....
Missing tackles? One lie, all lies. There is nobody that tackles better than Collins on that defense.
Try again.
If do we franchise Collins, I expect we will get trade offers for him. We did listen to several trade offers for Landon Collins before the trade deadline. If we got a first round offer, Collins would have been traded; he is someone we are willing to move if the price is right.
If we get a good enough deal, Collins will get traded.
We were reportedly looking for a 1st round pick before the trade deadline, with Collins' injury.
I could see us pulling the trigger on trade deal something along the lines of a second and fourth/fifth round picks similar to what we got for Shockey (we wanted a 2nd + 4th; got 2nd and fifth).
Dude, Dallas traded a 1st for WR who had 600ish receiving yards the season before.
Transition tag might be the way to go .
Getting a Free agent RT and a Free safety but not sure
who on the market for a FS . He also has a nose for the football very good hands and can run like a HB.
We need all the help we can get on defense .
That said, Gettleman has a reputation for not paying defensive backs fwiw.
Yeah but he's got a recent history of overpaying the shit out of players.
Let's see what tendency wins!
If the Giants had a free safety or any depth to speak of at corner Collins wouldn't be in as much coverage.
Moving forward he's one of the better players in league. He can be a really disruptive player and worth good money just doing that.