Plaxico was all height. Hakeem had hands and moves. I think he was more of a YAC receiver than Plax, but plax in the corner was almost as lock down as Mariano....
Plaxico, because he had the speed to break away (see the Jets game in 2007) and had the size to out jump defenders in the end zone (see many examples, particularly vs. the Eagles in the Osi sack game).
At the peak of his peak (although it was short-lived) Â
It would be Nicks. He had it all. Hands, speed, the ability to get open and make the catch and break tackles... plus the size and athletic ability to make catches in traffic. He was absolutely dominant. And in the 2011 playoffs when it counted most he was T.O.-like, no exaggeration.
BTW- I never noticed this, but the best seasons Nicks and Burress had for the Giants, respectively,were extremely similar. Both has 76 receptions and 7 TDs, Burress for 1214 yards and Nicks for 1192 Yards. Literally the same exact stats with just 22 yards difference (Nicks in 2011, Burress in 2005).
I don't know what it is, maybe because he was past his prime years by the time Eli took over, but Toomer gets weirdly forgotten and overlooked around here. The only Giants receiver I'd take over him is Odell.
I think Plax was vastly overrated. Great size, ok speed, questionable hands, and for whatever reason he led to several miscues. Give me Nicks and then Toomer. Nicks could have been great had he stayed healthy. Unfortunately he was one of many along with smith and cruz that had their careers cut short.
Think NFC Championship in Green Bay. Packers couldn't cover him. He killed Al Harris. Toomer had some key catches in that game and had a great game in Dallas as well and Nicks was terrific in the 2011 playoffs but Plaxico at his best was a force and he and Eli were a great combination.
...Nicks was devastating in his prime. League record holder for playoff receiving yardage all time at one point, not sure if it still holds.
Toomer BY FAR is #1 all-time in team receiving yards, #1 in TD's as well. 5 consecutive 1,000yd+ seasons. Not as flashy as Beckham, Cruz, he was still plenty elusive, was a return man early on. He was the first great Giant wideout going back to the 60's. An absolute breath of fresh air. He and Hilliard were a fantastic pair. Really happy AT was on that 2007 team, got a ring and played an important role in that last great drive, with a key catch and a fantastic pick that sprung Steve Smith on 3rd and 11.
over Plax or Hakeem. Remember, when Eli came onboard, Toomer was nearing the end. Would have been interesting to see that offense if Toomer were still in his prime.
I also think I'd take Nicks over Plax, but that's a toss up. Plax was more of a physical specimen but I think Nicks was the better route runner and gave more consistent effort.
and its not even close. He put it all together, but was healthy for a short window.
In that window, their weren't many that could hang with his change of direction, hands, power, and routes.
Plaxico was good for longer, but his highs weren't as High as Hakeems.
Toomer didn't have as strong of tools as Plax and Nicks.. but his body catching limited his effective radius.
Plax was so talented, he really could (should) have been more dominating on a consistent basis though. Toomer on the other hand was half as talented and did as much as he could with what he had. Love the guy.
1a. Nicks. The best pure WR of the 3. Sneaky fast and great hands. Injured too often, though.
1b. Plax. Not the route runner or greatest catcher but he scared the hell out of D coordinators. Can't teach size. Always had to be accounted for and was hugely responsible for the success of the running game.
2. Toomer. Steady, but for a time in 2002 was virtually uncoverable. Elite status on a team that had mainly garbage at WR otherwise although Shockey was there.
right up until that Tampa game where Talib stepped on his ankle/foot. He was never the same after that. Nicks was on his way towards a monster season that year.
In 2011 I thought he played better football than the other two ever did.
Plax was the most talented, but talent isn't everything. A receiver has to be trusted to run the right route. Or show up to practice, or not shoot himself.
At his peak, Plax was almost unstoppable. His problem was self Â
Toomer was solid, very reliable, but never equaled Plax A game.
Nicks was a shooting star, but injuries took away his game. If he could have continued, He probably could have been as consistent as Toomer and close to as dominant as Plax.
At their peak, I would say Plax, 1; Nicks, 2; Toomer, 3. No one else to consider unless you go back to Homer Jones and Del Shofner, both ranking above Nicks in my mind.
he was 6'3" 209 LBs and ran a 4.4; smooth route runner, great hands, and played during a time before the passing offenses truly exploded. His quarterbacks included Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Danny Kanell, Kerry Collins, Jesse Palmer, and a very young Eli and still had had 5 straight seasons with 1000 yards is impresive; Burress was on NYG for 4 years, and had 2 good seasons. Nicks also had 2 seasons with 1000 yards with Eli in his prime, and a bunch of other major weapons around him. I think Amani's 2002 season he was unguardable.
how game changing Burress' mere presence was. When he was on the field defenses were compelled to keep a safety over the top.
When Buress was playing that year the Giants ran the table on each of the NLF's best teams. What was it, 8 in a row against teams with winning records? I recall that that was, and still is, an NFL record for consecutive wins versus teams with winning records. Moreover, during that run, the Giants beat both teams that made it to the Superbowl as well as other teams that made deep playoff runs.
I do not recall either Toomer or Nicks having the same effect on defenses.
Is that Toomer actually had the best best season of them all. 82 rec, 1343 yards, 8 TDs (in 2002).
And yet not a single trip to Hawaii between all three of them. Now that is straight up robbery.
I don't think it's robbery, Giants fans really overrate our WR's. Probably because we never had any for years.
Toomer absolutely was robbed in 2002 - Marty Booker made it over him with 97-1189-6 versus Toomer's 82-1343-8. Toomer wasn't even the alternate, Donald Driver was, also with an inferior season to Toomer's (70-1064-9).
ah, a golden oldie, the myth of "Plax won games with his presence!" Â
with Plaxico a close 2nd. But as much as I appreciate and respect Toomer, Nicks' 2011 season and how dominant he was as a WR at his peak is what gives him the #1 spot.
He had catch radius, after the catch, enough speed, route-running ability, and toughness.
Plaxico was very, very good as well, if not great during the run in 2007. But Nicks set records in the 2011 playoffs.
down to 1 game my conclusion is different. Burress in the 2007 NFC championship game vs. Packers. He had Green Bay's star CB literally crying play after play.
I immediately jump at Plax. But the more I think about it Nicks was better and more consistent, just not as shall I say flamboyant. Plax seemed to always come down with the contested/jump ball.
I have the Hicks poster, they gave out after a game a few years back, hangin' in may garage.
Plaxico was all height. Hakeem had hands and moves. I think he was more of a YAC receiver than Plax, but plax in the corner was almost as lock down as Mariano....
God taught Mariano the cut fastball. It's the only rational explanation, dude was an absolute freak.
Is that Toomer actually had the best best season of them all. 82 rec, 1343 yards, 8 TDs (in 2002).
And yet not a single trip to Hawaii between all three of them. Now that is straight up robbery.
I don't think it's robbery, Giants fans really overrate our WR's. Probably because we never had any for years.
Toomer absolutely was robbed in 2002 - Marty Booker made it over him with 97-1189-6 versus Toomer's 82-1343-8. Toomer wasn't even the alternate, Donald Driver was, also with an inferior season to Toomer's (70-1064-9).
he was 6'3" 209 LBs and ran a 4.4; smooth route runner, great hands, and played during a time before the passing offenses truly exploded. His quarterbacks included Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Danny Kanell, Kerry Collins, Jesse Palmer, and a very young Eli and still had had 5 straight seasons with 1000 yards is impresive; Burress was on NYG for 4 years, and had 2 good seasons. Nicks also had 2 seasons with 1000 yards with Eli in his prime, and a bunch of other major weapons around him. I think Amani's 2002 season he was unguardable.
Really good post here. The point about Toomer's QB woes is spot on.
Tim Brown was better than Toomer, but he dealt with a similar situation during almost his entire career. People forget how great Brown and how much more spectacular his production would have been with a QB of greater stature.
I'm glad DeAndre Hopkins now has Watson because he was destined for a similar career. He's a great, great player.
RE: RE: I'm going to be the contrarian and say Toomer Â
he was 6'3" 209 LBs and ran a 4.4; smooth route runner, great hands, and played during a time before the passing offenses truly exploded. His quarterbacks included Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Danny Kanell, Kerry Collins, Jesse Palmer, and a very young Eli and still had had 5 straight seasons with 1000 yards is impresive; Burress was on NYG for 4 years, and had 2 good seasons. Nicks also had 2 seasons with 1000 yards with Eli in his prime, and a bunch of other major weapons around him. I think Amani's 2002 season he was unguardable.
Really good post here. The point about Toomer's QB woes is spot on.
Tim Brown was better than Toomer, but he dealt with a similar situation during almost his entire career. People forget how great Brown and how much more spectacular his production would have been with a QB of greater stature.
I'm glad DeAndre Hopkins now has Watson because he was destined for a similar career. He's a great, great player.
Hopkins is the best in the league. Really great to watch play.
Toomer was stuck with shitty QB’s for most of his career. He probably would have looked a lot better with Eli throwing him the ball in his prime. I know the sexy pick is probably Burress, and Nicks is a fan favorite, but Toomer was the most complete WR prior to Beckham.
And we only got to see him just entering his prime before the injury in the Tampa game in 2012. Consistently beat one on one coverage against top corners. I will give Plax credit for being a really good run blocker which helped Tiki spring some of those big runs.
if Nicks didn’t have his career shortened he might have been clear #1 over Plax, a couple more seasons under his belt as a seasoned vet, he was getting towards all-pro caliber play..but Eli and Plax was a deadly combo.
Some older BBI’ers will remember the ‘All Day Baby’ and speedlines..or was it All Year Baby?
he was 6'3" 209 LBs and ran a 4.4; smooth route runner, great hands, and played during a time before the passing offenses truly exploded. His quarterbacks included Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Danny Kanell, Kerry Collins, Jesse Palmer, and a very young Eli and still had had 5 straight seasons with 1000 yards is impresive; Burress was on NYG for 4 years, and had 2 good seasons. Nicks also had 2 seasons with 1000 yards with Eli in his prime, and a bunch of other major weapons around him. I think Amani's 2002 season he was unguardable.
Really good post here. The point about Toomer's QB woes is spot on.
Tim Brown was better than Toomer, but he dealt with a similar situation during almost his entire career. People forget how great Brown and how much more spectacular his production would have been with a QB of greater stature.
I'm glad DeAndre Hopkins now has Watson because he was destined for a similar career. He's a great, great player.
Andre Johnson had a hof career with a bunch of "QBs" wobbling ducks his way.
First, comparing the three is like comparing apples to oranges and pears. They were different kinds of receivers. Give me Plax in the red zone. He was unstoppable there. If you needed a bomb it was Amani and for tough gritty catches 20 yards or so down field, Hakeem was best.
It is difficult to compare athletes of different eras too, but I go back to a guy named Homer Jones who was suberb at getting behind the defense and catching long passes. I go back even further, to Bill Swiacki, who played collegiate ball at Columbia, and then starred for the Giants. He had sticky fingers and I never saw him drop a ball.
both regular season and playoffs, Nicks was a monster. I recall one TD catch in the regular season game where he won a contested red zone catch...tremendous.
Plax had a big day against them too in playoffs in 2008
Toomer was not great his first 3 or 4 years IIRC...... Â
He worked on his craft and became a great receiver, truly reliable. I loved his sideline catches tapping his toes in. Cannot even cover those throws. The back shoulder fade was another great pass Toomer excelled in catching and became a staple in the offense. Plax was uncoverable, the same could be said for OBJs first few years, as well. Plax, Toomer and Smith were a fantastic trio of receivers, as well as Nicks, Cruz and Manningham. Nicks was also a fantastic receiver for his few years of health. I have to give it to Plax IMO. He could not be covered and killed the Eagles and other NFC East foes.
Lastly, our luck with exceptional receivers has not been good as far as longevity. I hope that changes soon for us, especially after OBJ broke his ankle last year. So far he still appears to be a very good route runner and receiver. Only thing I see missing in his game is the explosiveness. He used to be capable of taking a slant and outrunning the Defense.
I would say Nicks was the best overall player but if you asked me to take one for a single game I think I would take Plax. He was a matchup nightmare. Before Eli entered his prime he was often bailed out by just lobbing it up to Burress.
he was on his way to elite status. Toomer was never really close to that. Plax was great but wasn't the big play threat that Nicks was. Hakeem and Cruz were a helluva combo. Damned shame we only got one season of them together. Of course that was more than we ever got of OBJ and Cruz. Still riles me up the way we got ravaged by injuries at WR. That's one of the positions where it's realistic to expect guys to have long careers. Not for the Giants though.
RE: Nicks was establishing himself as a top 5 WR Â
right up until that Tampa game where Talib stepped on his ankle/foot. He was never the same after that. Nicks was on his way towards a monster season that year.
but forgot he was an incredibly poorly officiated eagles finale from leading the NFC in yards. Him and Collins should have made the pro bowl that year.
And while I m not surprised that Toomer seems to be a distant third in the consensus here, fans are often enamored with great physical attributes in athletes, I disagree with the consensus.
Toomer made as many big plays as the other two, maybe more.
But they were all great players, hard to make a mistake taking in choosing one
And I don't have to think about it for a second. Even covered, 6-5 is open. His downfield blocking was devastating from the WR position and he showed up huge in big games.
And I don't have to think about it for a second. Even covered, 6-5 is open. His downfield blocking was devastating from the WR position and he showed up huge in big games.
He began dealing with serious leg issues at 22. At that age, Burress and Toomer hadn't caught their first professional pass. By 24, he was basically finished. When Toomer and Plax were 24, they were wearing out their respective welcomes in NY and Pittsburgh.
Nicks - he bitched the best CBs, played big and was best in playoffs Â
His peak was shorter than the others and he lost games to injury even within that peak but even still his numbers were as good as the others in his prime, better in the playoffs and he owned all of his CB matchups. I always had faith he would show up and dominate like the stud WR he was.
He averaged 7/111/1 in the 2011 playoff run. Straight Baller.
Plaxico for me. Could not be covered, made big plays all over the field, blocked, he was a special player who made special plays on special days. And after the big game you could count on him to be packing heat in case anyone gets all up in my juray at da club.
Throughout his career from PIT to NYG he was terrible on fade routes. He was big but not a good leaper. Used his body well, very good on slants but terrible on jump balls especially on fades.
Throughout his career from PIT to NYG he was terrible on fade routes. He was big but not a good leaper. Used his body well, very good on slants but terrible on jump balls especially on fades.
I think the problem behind that is throughout his tenure here, that was the go-to move in the redzone and every defense knew it was coming. It's hard to defend 6'5, but it's less hard when every defensive coach knows that's what you're going to try first.
Toomer a distant third.
Both Nicks and Plax had plenty of moments quitting on routes getting balls picked off.
Amani was sneaky good, always where he was supposed to be and a sideline magician.
BTW- I never noticed this, but the best seasons Nicks and Burress had for the Giants, respectively,were extremely similar. Both has 76 receptions and 7 TDs, Burress for 1214 yards and Nicks for 1192 Yards. Literally the same exact stats with just 22 yards difference (Nicks in 2011, Burress in 2005).
And yet not a single trip to Hawaii between all three of them. Now that is straight up robbery.
Toomer was a body catcher, so was limited. To this day, I've never seen a WR that was a better in-bounds toe tapper than Toomer.
Toomer BY FAR is #1 all-time in team receiving yards, #1 in TD's as well. 5 consecutive 1,000yd+ seasons. Not as flashy as Beckham, Cruz, he was still plenty elusive, was a return man early on. He was the first great Giant wideout going back to the 60's. An absolute breath of fresh air. He and Hilliard were a fantastic pair. Really happy AT was on that 2007 team, got a ring and played an important role in that last great drive, with a key catch and a fantastic pick that sprung Steve Smith on 3rd and 11.
Toomer was a body catcher, so was limited. To this day, I've never seen a WR that was a better in-bounds toe tapper than Toomer.
Ike Hilliard was the best. His intangibles were off the charts.
I also think I'd take Nicks over Plax, but that's a toss up. Plax was more of a physical specimen but I think Nicks was the better route runner and gave more consistent effort.
Plax was vary good at being a big WR. Knew how to use his body and size well.
Toomer was just very reliable. Not exceptional in any category.
In that window, their weren't many that could hang with his change of direction, hands, power, and routes.
Plaxico was good for longer, but his highs weren't as High as Hakeems.
Toomer didn't have as strong of tools as Plax and Nicks.. but his body catching limited his effective radius.
1b. Plax. Not the route runner or greatest catcher but he scared the hell out of D coordinators. Can't teach size. Always had to be accounted for and was hugely responsible for the success of the running game.
2. Toomer. Steady, but for a time in 2002 was virtually uncoverable. Elite status on a team that had mainly garbage at WR otherwise although Shockey was there.
Plax was the most talented, but talent isn't everything. A receiver has to be trusted to run the right route. Or show up to practice, or not shoot himself.
Toomer was solid, very reliable, but never equaled Plax A game.
Nicks was a shooting star, but injuries took away his game. If he could have continued, He probably could have been as consistent as Toomer and close to as dominant as Plax.
At their peak, I would say Plax, 1; Nicks, 2; Toomer, 3. No one else to consider unless you go back to Homer Jones and Del Shofner, both ranking above Nicks in my mind.
And yet not a single trip to Hawaii between all three of them. Now that is straight up robbery.
I don't think it's robbery, Giants fans really overrate our WR's. Probably because we never had any for years.
When Buress was playing that year the Giants ran the table on each of the NLF's best teams. What was it, 8 in a row against teams with winning records? I recall that that was, and still is, an NFL record for consecutive wins versus teams with winning records. Moreover, during that run, the Giants beat both teams that made it to the Superbowl as well as other teams that made deep playoff runs.
I do not recall either Toomer or Nicks having the same effect on defenses.
Quote:
Is that Toomer actually had the best best season of them all. 82 rec, 1343 yards, 8 TDs (in 2002).
And yet not a single trip to Hawaii between all three of them. Now that is straight up robbery.
I don't think it's robbery, Giants fans really overrate our WR's. Probably because we never had any for years.
Toomer absolutely was robbed in 2002 - Marty Booker made it over him with 97-1189-6 versus Toomer's 82-1343-8. Toomer wasn't even the alternate, Donald Driver was, also with an inferior season to Toomer's (70-1064-9).
He had catch radius, after the catch, enough speed, route-running ability, and toughness.
Plaxico was very, very good as well, if not great during the run in 2007. But Nicks set records in the 2011 playoffs.
Candle in the wind.
I have the Hicks poster, they gave out after a game a few years back, hangin' in may garage.
God taught Mariano the cut fastball. It's the only rational explanation, dude was an absolute freak.
Career as a whole, it's not close......Toomer.
Quote:
In comment 14208523 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
Is that Toomer actually had the best best season of them all. 82 rec, 1343 yards, 8 TDs (in 2002).
And yet not a single trip to Hawaii between all three of them. Now that is straight up robbery.
I don't think it's robbery, Giants fans really overrate our WR's. Probably because we never had any for years.
Toomer absolutely was robbed in 2002 - Marty Booker made it over him with 97-1189-6 versus Toomer's 82-1343-8. Toomer wasn't even the alternate, Donald Driver was, also with an inferior season to Toomer's (70-1064-9).
I agree on that year with Toomer.
Really good post here. The point about Toomer's QB woes is spot on.
Tim Brown was better than Toomer, but he dealt with a similar situation during almost his entire career. People forget how great Brown and how much more spectacular his production would have been with a QB of greater stature.
I'm glad DeAndre Hopkins now has Watson because he was destined for a similar career. He's a great, great player.
Quote:
he was 6'3" 209 LBs and ran a 4.4; smooth route runner, great hands, and played during a time before the passing offenses truly exploded. His quarterbacks included Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Danny Kanell, Kerry Collins, Jesse Palmer, and a very young Eli and still had had 5 straight seasons with 1000 yards is impresive; Burress was on NYG for 4 years, and had 2 good seasons. Nicks also had 2 seasons with 1000 yards with Eli in his prime, and a bunch of other major weapons around him. I think Amani's 2002 season he was unguardable.
Really good post here. The point about Toomer's QB woes is spot on.
Tim Brown was better than Toomer, but he dealt with a similar situation during almost his entire career. People forget how great Brown and how much more spectacular his production would have been with a QB of greater stature.
I'm glad DeAndre Hopkins now has Watson because he was destined for a similar career. He's a great, great player.
Hopkins is the best in the league. Really great to watch play.
He was the best WR in the NFL during that span. He was also playing with Daryl Jones on the other side.
Some older BBI’ers will remember the ‘All Day Baby’ and speedlines..or was it All Year Baby?
Sideline catch: Toomer
Move the chains/must-have third down: Nicks
Quote:
he was 6'3" 209 LBs and ran a 4.4; smooth route runner, great hands, and played during a time before the passing offenses truly exploded. His quarterbacks included Dave Brown, Kent Graham, Danny Kanell, Kerry Collins, Jesse Palmer, and a very young Eli and still had had 5 straight seasons with 1000 yards is impresive; Burress was on NYG for 4 years, and had 2 good seasons. Nicks also had 2 seasons with 1000 yards with Eli in his prime, and a bunch of other major weapons around him. I think Amani's 2002 season he was unguardable.
Really good post here. The point about Toomer's QB woes is spot on.
Tim Brown was better than Toomer, but he dealt with a similar situation during almost his entire career. People forget how great Brown and how much more spectacular his production would have been with a QB of greater stature.
I'm glad DeAndre Hopkins now has Watson because he was destined for a similar career. He's a great, great player.
Andre Johnson had a hof career with a bunch of "QBs" wobbling ducks his way.
Out of these 3, Nicks is the easy answer.
Cruz should be on the list. At his best? I’d take him over Plac and easily take him over Toomer..
Fun idea to debate, and as evidenced by all the opinions here I think we’d agree it’s a close debate.
Prime Toomer is underrated IMO
It is difficult to compare athletes of different eras too, but I go back to a guy named Homer Jones who was suberb at getting behind the defense and catching long passes. I go back even further, to Bill Swiacki, who played collegiate ball at Columbia, and then starred for the Giants. He had sticky fingers and I never saw him drop a ball.
Plax had a big day against them too in playoffs in 2008
Lastly, our luck with exceptional receivers has not been good as far as longevity. I hope that changes soon for us, especially after OBJ broke his ankle last year. So far he still appears to be a very good route runner and receiver. Only thing I see missing in his game is the explosiveness. He used to be capable of taking a slant and outrunning the Defense.
I believe you mean Nicks, not Hicks.
This.
plax was very good in 05 and 07 but not on level of nicks.
toomer was a solid player and more consistent but not as good as either of the other two at peak.
RK...Player..................Rec.....Yds.....Avg.....TD......20+.....40+
1.......Randy.Moss.......106.....1,347...12.7.......7.......19......6
2.......Amani.Toomer....82......1,343...16.4.......8.......24......4
3.......Joe.Horn.............88......1,312...14.9.......7.......19......6
4.......Torry.Holt...........91......1,302...14.3.......4.......17......3
5.......Terrell.Owens....100.....1,300...13.........13......17......5
6.......Koren.Robinson..78......1,240...15.9.......5.......19......4
7.......Marty.Booker......97......1,189...12.3.......6.......20......3
8.......Keysh.Johnson....76......1,088...14.3.......5.......14......1
9.......Isaac.Bruce.........79......1,075...13.6.......7.......20......0
10......Donald.Driver....70......1,064...15.2.......9.......15......3
For a season though I think I’d go peak Nicks. Pre injury he was a tough cover for anybody.
I love Toomer and he was robbed 2002, but it’s hard to ignore his first Super Bowl as the #1.
good comment above...
And while I m not surprised that Toomer seems to be a distant third in the consensus here, fans are often enamored with great physical attributes in athletes, I disagree with the consensus.
Toomer made as many big plays as the other two, maybe more.
But they were all great players, hard to make a mistake taking in choosing one
+1
He averaged 7/111/1 in the 2011 playoff run. Straight Baller.
Damn shame his career got cut short.
Overall career best was Toomer.
I think the problem behind that is throughout his tenure here, that was the go-to move in the redzone and every defense knew it was coming. It's hard to defend 6'5, but it's less hard when every defensive coach knows that's what you're going to try first.