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Say what you want about Shurmur

GiantsRage2007 : 12/9/2018 5:41 pm
No coach is perfect. I've been critical of his play-calling and time management in particular... but...

You can't deny the Giants have come out of the bye winning 4 out of 5 and averaging about 32 ppg. Yea, the Philly game sucked, but... maybe this coach needs to learn to win like these players do. I know we've played some back-up qbs, but... so did McAdoo for almost 2 yrs and we couldn't hang 30 on any of them.

He has these guys playing hard, and playing to win. You can't ask for much more than that.

Oh, to dream of another OL or 2 in the draft and a DL and maybe a ball-hawing safety... Playoffs? 2019 Playoffs? That sounds nice to me!
Not sure putting up 30 on a backup QB who is on the sideline  
robbieballs2003 : 12/9/2018 5:44 pm : link
justifies your point.
RE: Not sure putting up 30 on a backup QB who is on the sideline  
section125 : 12/9/2018 5:49 pm : link
In comment 14211319 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
justifies your point.


They put up 33 on the defense. I get your point, but blame the decimated team. But nevertheless, they scored the points, and probably score more if Eli and Barkley stay in the game.

Just need to keep perspective and I guess that is what you are saying.
Decimated?  
djstat : 12/9/2018 5:50 pm : link
Their defense is not decimated
The skins had a top ten defense coming into today  
adamg : 12/9/2018 5:51 pm : link
We didn't do this against some bullshit D.
.  
arcarsenal : 12/9/2018 5:57 pm : link
There are two aspects to the Redskins...

Yes, their defense has played well this year - and they aren't totally decimated.

BUT - awful offense makes it hard to play defense. The Redskins punted like 10 times today. Every Mark Sanchez drive was non-competitive.

Field position and sheer TOP put their defense in a near-impossible situation today.

That said...

You play the teams on the schedule and no NFCE game is ever "easy"

Shurmur has done a very nice job of keeping this team pushing and fighting. The offense looks like it is really improving and coming around.

If we find a way to finish this year 7-9 or even 8-8 considering we started 1-7, I'll be pretty encouraged going into next year.

He seems to be settling in here. Barring a really, really shitty final 3 weeks, he deserves another shot next year.
I get the arguments that we aren't playing  
GiantsRage2007 : 12/9/2018 5:59 pm : link
Great teams

But

You play who you play when you play them

There were PLENTY of backup qb's and bad teams that McAdoo and Coughlin in the final years lost to.

Especially for this offense, to put up a streak of games like we have lately? I'll take it. It's great!
yup  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/9/2018 6:04 pm : link
but how big was the Bears game? Totally different vibe if we didn't pull that out at the end. If we lost that, he would have lost the entire fan base.
I don't care if  
rocco8112 : 12/9/2018 6:11 pm : link
they played a fifth string QB. Early this season I viewed the Giants as one of the worst teams in the league. This has been a different team since the bye week and is becoming a team I doubt any contender wants to see on the schedule now. They also just look more physical and like an NFL team. HC deserves credit as does the QB who I think it should be clear to all can still play.

Also, Barkley is amazing and the specials are really forming up too. Great to kick this shit out of the Redskins today.
Don't forget what he and Gettleman inherited.  
short lease : 12/9/2018 6:13 pm : link
Anybody think we were going to the SB after 1 year. They definitely earned another year of employment.
Also they hd this  
rocco8112 : 12/9/2018 6:16 pm : link
dominant win without one of their best players which I think is important and particularly because of who that player is.
RE: yup  
Fort Mill Mike : 12/9/2018 6:16 pm : link
In comment 14211357 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
but how big was the Bears game? Totally different vibe if we didn't pull that out at the end. If we lost that, he would have lost the entire fan base.


Yep. Losing that game would/could have been a back breaker and the Giants are too demoralized to win another game. I’m buying into the idea of building momentum and a winning culture that will pay off next season and the going forward.
The needle is pointing up  
gmenatlarge : 12/9/2018 6:17 pm : link
But they still have not beaten a GOOD team....
RE: The needle is pointing up  
section125 : 12/9/2018 6:18 pm : link
In comment 14211377 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
But they still have not beaten a GOOD team....


8-3 Bears are not a good team, backup QB or not?
RE: The needle is pointing up  
trueblueinpw : 12/9/2018 6:18 pm : link
In comment 14211377 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
But they still have not beaten a GOOD team....


Bears are a good team. Back up QB sure but a good defense.
But Eric they showed  
Dave on the UWS : 12/9/2018 6:19 pm : link
toughness and resilience in pulling that game out. This is part of the progression of this team, this coach, in pointing the arrow up. It’s now obvious that the team is starting to develop an identity. You can see the players, especially the young ones who will become part of the next competitive core. AND you can see clearly where the holes on the roster still are. When looked at with the big picture lens, it’s been a positive year for DG and PS. I can now see a playoff type team next year with another good offseason.
RE: The needle is pointing up  
WillVAB : 12/9/2018 6:22 pm : link
In comment 14211377 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
But they still have not beaten a GOOD team....


The Bears aren’t a good team? The Texans aren’t a good team?
I've been saying it  
section125 : 12/9/2018 6:23 pm : link
for a few weeks - the players have not given up on him. They are playing hard for him. That is very important and one of the reasons I'm certain he stays. AFter Philly I wanted him gone. But the players, despite limited talent, have not quit.
The offensive line  
Gman11 : 12/9/2018 6:35 pm : link
improved and so did the offense. Say what you will about Gettleman, but he isn't afraid to admit his mistakes and cut bait. The previous regime kept Flowers in there despite his incompetence. Shurmur and Gettlemen admitted their mistakes with Flowers and Omameh and now look. They are actually functional.
That Bears  
jtfuoco : 12/9/2018 6:41 pm : link
game and philly game is better indicator of what he is as a coach then today against Washington.
RE: The needle is pointing up  
short lease : 12/9/2018 6:43 pm : link
In comment 14211377 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
But they still have not beaten a GOOD team....


Didn't we beat the Texans before they won something like 9 in a row? That is a pretty good team .... and we came very close to some other very good teams. He wasn't going to fix things in a season.
Call me crazy,  
BigBlueinDE : 12/9/2018 6:46 pm : link
but I think he's going to be very successful here.
This is why  
mittenedman : 12/9/2018 6:51 pm : link
you can complain about trading Snacks for a 5th rounder all you want, maybe it has nothing to do with it, but the Giants look like a much better TEAM since then and maybe, just maybe, they knew something we didn't.

The team as a living breathing organism finally hit its stride and found a formula that works for them.
RE: The offensive line  
LauderdaleMatty : 12/9/2018 6:53 pm : link
In comment 14211431 Gman11 said:
Quote:
improved and so did the offense. Say what you will about Gettleman, but he isn't afraid to admit his mistakes and cut bait. The previous regime kept Flowers in there despite his incompetence. Shurmur and Gettlemen admitted their mistakes with Flowers and Omameh and now look. They are actually functional.


This. Still think they fucked up cutting bait on Snacks and Apple. But this offense once the OL went from worst in the league mediocre it’s been a different team. And OBJ didn’t play. Add one more OL and a legit pass rusher and a few other defensive players this team can easily compete next year. Reese destroyed this team the last 5 years. DG and Shurmur should get another year to see how it evolves. Barkley is making the QB or bust crowd look dumber and dumber each game
Jury still out IMO but nice to see us put up  
Bluesbreaker : 12/9/2018 6:53 pm : link
Some TD's instead of settling for FG's think
he is still learning on the fly with using his players
to best suit there skill levels .
RE: That Bears  
section125 : 12/9/2018 6:55 pm : link
In comment 14211442 jtfuoco said:
Quote:
game and philly game is better indicator of what he is as a coach then today against Washington.


really? That is looking at stats to get your conclusion.
Come on, how many backup QBs have we played against?  
SHO'NUFF : 12/9/2018 7:33 pm : link
It's like that one year we played against 6 or 7 backup QBs and had a decent run of wins.
Even if they don’t win another game  
Rick in Dallas : 12/9/2018 7:55 pm : link
Shurmur will be back next year.
Even if they don’t win another game  
Rick in Dallas : 12/9/2018 7:56 pm : link
Shurmur will be back next year.
They're 1-4 in the division, and the 1 was against a guy  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/9/2018 7:57 pm : link
Who wasnt even in the NFL last week.
RE: Even if they don’t win another game  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12/9/2018 8:00 pm : link
In comment 14211745 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Shurmur will be back next year.


Agree. I discussed this in my preview. For better or worse, the Bears game was huge.
Quote yearly stats all you want - but anyone can see the Giants  
PatersonPlank : 12/9/2018 8:05 pm : link
are improving. This is what he will be judged on
RE: Quote yearly stats all you want - but anyone can see the Giants  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/9/2018 8:09 pm : link
In comment 14211777 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
are improving. This is what he will be judged on


What matters is how they're improving. Wins against bad teams is what they did last year too. They ran all over Denver last season with Orleans Darkwa and that was thought to be a turning point too.
RE: They're 1-4 in the division, and the 1 was against a guy  
section125 : 12/9/2018 8:13 pm : link
In comment 14211751 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Who wasnt even in the NFL last week.


It is hard to win against anyone in the NFL. And today wasn't even close 40-16.

It is improvement every week. It is winning games with a less than talented team.
RE: RE: They're 1-4 in the division, and the 1 was against a guy  
Eman11 : 12/9/2018 8:18 pm : link
In comment 14211793 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14211751 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Who wasnt even in the NFL last week.



It is hard to win against anyone in the NFL. And today wasn't even close 40-16.

It is improvement every week. It is winning games with a less than talented team.


Agreed and it's also about being prepared and effort. Something they're consistently doing.

This team could've easily hung their heads and mailed in the season after the last Eagles loss but they've done the opposite, and the HC has to get credit for that.
RE: RE: They're 1-4 in the division, and the 1 was against a guy  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/9/2018 8:18 pm : link
In comment 14211793 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14211751 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Who wasnt even in the NFL last week.



It is hard to win against anyone in the NFL. And today wasn't even close 40-16.

It is improvement every week. It is winning games with a less than talented team.



When you're playing less than talented teams in back to back weeks, you're gonna see improvement.

What they did against Chicago matters, but even then, it was without their starting QB so it creates situations that arent an accurate way to judge the team.

Like getting 14 points off Sanchez tipped pass INTs against a Washington team that knew their season ended with Alex Smith's leg.
Shumur has the team playing better and hard.  
joe48 : 12/9/2018 8:24 pm : link
We have not beaten a good offense. Barkley is a game changer and was the right choice for this team. We need some defensive line help along more talent on the OL. Shurmur is utilizing Barkley more each week and this kid will be unstoppable with a few more OL upgrades. Eli will probably be the QB next year but we should better with more talent. I do not think we will be a playoff threat next year. Too many holes to fill and a limited QB.
At 1-7 they found themselves  
joeinpa : 12/9/2018 8:38 pm : link
With a legitimate chance to be a contender in the division if they had beaten the Eagles.

19-3 lead and they spit the bit while returning to the hapless losers than had been in the first 8 games during that second half.

That stinker of a half in a very meaningful game takes something away from the idea that these wins, while nice, are really a big deal in the scheme of things.

"They're still playing hard"  
Go Terps : 12/9/2018 8:48 pm : link
Pretty low standard.

When it comes to assessing this team and this stage I throw out everything after 1-7.
RE: The needle is pointing up  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/9/2018 8:49 pm : link
In comment 14211377 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
But they still have not beaten a GOOD team....


What was the Bears' record before we beat them? Yeah, they had a mediocre backup QB playing, but their team wins on defense primarily anyway.
*staff  
Go Terps : 12/9/2018 8:49 pm : link
.
this team is changing  
Dankbeerman : 12/9/2018 8:50 pm : link
mostly for the better. I been a long time since we attackesmd our flaws. not always perfect but we arent stagnent. making the adjustments that we can is huge.
IMHO ...  
Beer Man : 12/9/2018 8:51 pm : link
the team has shown improvement, particularly since the by-week. I think we are seeing a glimpse of how powerful this O could be. But there are still wrinkles to iron out, the OL is still a WIP and a few players have to be more consistent and play up to their potential. DG and PS inherited a mess, and there is still a lot to fix, but the team is showing some new life. Hopefully the trend continues and we see a very successful offseason.
C'mon folks, it's not that hard to see the difference  
BlueLou'sBack : 12/9/2018 9:01 pm : link
Barkley makes. He makes everyone around him better. Every player on the offense at least recognizes this simple fact now: do your job, and SB has a shot to score. I'm not saying Shep and OBJ weren't good blockers BEFORE SB arrived... But what did OBJ say the other day about his own blocking? HIS MOM is ragging on him, telling him he's got to finish because you never know when your block is the last one SB needs to take it to the house.

Or something like that. Anybody who's ever played OL knows this: when you play with someone truly gifted, it energizes you to do your darn job, at least.

When your WRs are blocking like junkyard dogs fighting over bones, it's not the coach making the difference. So long as PS keeps feeding SB the ball...
He’s the same shitty coach he was in Cleveland  
Rflairr : 12/9/2018 9:13 pm : link
But whatever makes you feel good
...  
christian : 12/9/2018 9:15 pm : link
A fourth of the roster are UFA going into this season. Aside from Collins and maybe Brown, not many guys to lose sleep over on paper. Except a bunch of those guys are starting or getting a bunch of PT. Not even taking into account the guys who will be cap casualties.

Point being there is likely going to be a bunch of turnover just by virtue of contracts. The Giants don't have a bunch of young good players under contract.

Shurmur's going to have a very different team and challenge next year.
Some of his in-game decisions make...  
Chris in Philly : 12/9/2018 9:43 pm : link
me cuckoo. But there’s no denying that the guys want to play for him. And that means something.
RE: RE: The needle is pointing up  
JOrthman : 12/10/2018 1:13 am : link
In comment 14211383 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
In comment 14211377 gmenatlarge said:


Quote:


But they still have not beaten a GOOD team....



Bears are a good team. Back up QB sure but a good defense.


Also, lets stop acting like Trubisky is Brady. So yes, Daniels is not as good, but the drop off was not like going from Brady to Sanchez.
RE: RE: The needle is pointing up  
JOrthman : 12/10/2018 1:16 am : link
In comment 14211864 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14211377 gmenatlarge said:


Quote:


But they still have not beaten a GOOD team....



What was the Bears' record before we beat them? Yeah, they had a mediocre backup QB playing, but their team wins on defense primarily anyway.


Exactly, the drop off between Trubisky and Daniels is not as big as people are making it sound.
RE: Call me crazy,  
santacruzom : 12/10/2018 1:17 am : link
In comment 14211462 BigBlueinDE said:
Quote:
but I think he's going to be very successful here.


The one thing that seems encouraging... he may be the sort who actually learns from mistakes and doesn't stay stubborn.

That in itself is a breath of fresh air.
I don't envy the task before the Giants ownership  
santacruzom : 12/10/2018 1:31 am : link
in evaluating this team come season's end.

Will their tendency be to dismiss the 1-7 start as an acclimation period, and eagerly cling to what the performance after the midpoint might imply? Will they still be able to see the weak spots and blunders buried in the wins and say, "Wait a minute, let's make sure we have a plan to address ______?"

Will the tell themselves, "A few different bounces here and there and we would have beat X, Y and Z and been right in the hunt!" and be satisfied by that, despite the possibility that maybe beating X, Y and Z doesn't really actually signify anything that meaningful because neither of them were great teams either?

Gonna be tricky.
I disagree with the idea that  
rocco8112 : 12/10/2018 6:28 am : link
beating "bad" teams does not matter. This team was a fucking joke. Now it is clearly imrpoving. Lets see how this all plays out. If they keep winning and looking good the next threee weeks and maybe even put a dagger in Dallas' season, those are very good signs to me.

Last year that joke of a team and HC went to SF, a bottom feeder and they did not trade for their new QB yet, and got destroyed. This year, sure some of the recent wins were against weaker teams, but they were wins and yesterday they obliterated a weak injured team. To me that means things are trending up and I think the coach needs to get some credit.

Also, cutting bait with the whole right side of the line and finding a more workable solution is also a good move. Took balls and it seems to be working out.

Also  
rocco8112 : 12/10/2018 6:31 am : link
even specials are coming around. When was the last time that happened? Shurmur will be back and he deserves to be back. If he can pull of a streak for 8 -8 and that 8th win kills Dallas, well that is not so bad if you think about it.

Sure wish they won that Carolina game, 63 yard fluke from a kicker who has been crap since.
RE: RE: RE: The needle is pointing up  
gmenatlarge : 12/10/2018 8:29 am : link
In comment 14212214 JOrthman said:
Quote:
In comment 14211864 BlueLou'sBack said:


Quote:


In comment 14211377 gmenatlarge said:


Quote:


But they still have not beaten a GOOD team....



What was the Bears' record before we beat them? Yeah, they had a mediocre backup QB playing, but their team wins on defense primarily anyway.



Exactly, the drop off between Trubisky and Daniels is not as big as people are making it sound.


Nobody is calling trubisky Brady, far from it, but I doubt Trubisky would have spotted the giants a TD lead by throwing a pick-6 into Ogletree's face mask. Are the Giants improving?-definitely but they collapsed in the face of a tough front seven in Philly and they still have big problems on the O-line. Beat Indy on the road or dallas at home and I'll be impressed! Right now they are what the record says they are a 5-8 team. Any team in the league can say if they got a few bounces here or there they could be in it.
RE: RE: The needle is pointing up  
rsjem1979 : 12/10/2018 9:18 am : link
In comment 14211382 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14211377 gmenatlarge said:


Quote:


But they still have not beaten a GOOD team....



8-3 Bears are not a good team, backup QB or not?


Why is it the concept of a "trap game" never applies to a Giants opponent? The Bears had a big division win over the Vikings, then won on Thanksgiving Day. They'd won five straight and had 10 days off before facing the Giants, with a massive Sunday Night matchup against the Rams looming.

Isn't it at least possible the Bears were looking past the Giants a little bit? It's "great" that the Giants managed not to lose after blowing the game in the final 2 minutes, but let's be reasonable, the Bears didn't bring the same intensity they had last night in obliterating the Rams offense.
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