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NFT: 12/10 Knicks Talk: Frankie Smokes

LawrenceTaylor56 : 12/10/2018 7:01 am
Knicks lost their 4th straight last night.

Couple positives with our two youngest players setting career high in points so far in their early careers.

David Fizdale: It's been said many times. Fizdale just seems to push the right buttons. Has now had 3 players respond greatly to consecutive DNPS (Burke,Dotson,Frank). Showed he had Franks back after getting himself ejected. I'm not gonna question his offense, as it seems he knows what he is doing and trying to figure out who can do what in certain situations.

Frank Ntilikina: Trade talks are foolish, IMO. Listen, if last night was best case scenario Frank, we're gonna love the pick. (7-11, 18 points,4-4 from downtown) The thing we need to see more is consistency. What did he do for the first time ever? He actually tried to take over a game offensively. He was knocking down shots. He wasn't doing the hesitation and shoot. Nope. Had a nice look for a Robinson alley oop that became a turnover. Fouled out on some QUESTIONABLE calls at the end that eventually got Fizdale ejected.

Kevin Knox: One of those oddball stats where he is the second teenager only to LeBron James to score 25 points and grab 15 rebounds. Impressive company. Could have easily had a few more points if he doesn't carelessly throw the ball up it seems on a few of those drives. Getting some strength training will improve this dramatically.

Noah Vonleh: If there's one player I'd choose to keep on the island of misfit toys. It would be him. On a night where the offense didn't get going, he played the point forward role and had 10 rebounds and... 9 assists? He can stretch the floor on offense and provides good defense.

Damyean Dotson: Another good night where he played good defense. 12 points on 6-8 shooting. 3 assists.

The rest: Tim "Michigan Man" Hardaway with an average night. 3-5 from downtown. Ended up with 21 points. Allonzo Trier didn't play due to a hamstring during warmups? Kanter had a meh night while getting abused by Cody Zeller early on.


I"m happy for Frank. I'd like to see Knox work on finishing better  
Ira : 12/10/2018 7:05 am : link
.
RE: I  
nygiants16 : 12/10/2018 7:15 am : link
In comment 14212313 Ira said:
Quote:
.


sometimes when he drives i think he looks to draw the foul more than trying to finish
Julius  
DanMetroMan : 12/10/2018 7:29 am : link
Randle 26, 11 and 3 last 5 games, a true breakout this season for Randle.
All  
DanMetroMan : 12/10/2018 7:33 am : link
3 are still reasonably young but imagine the Knicks used #2 overall on MGK, #9 on Kaminsky (I'd look into him), #11 on Monk? And this is all they have to show for it so far?
That  
Jon in NYC : 12/10/2018 7:38 am : link
charge called on French Frank was an absolutely brutal call. Badger Frank was on skates and FF just bullied him.
I  
DanMetroMan : 12/10/2018 7:45 am : link
expect it to happen when he gets stronger but I'd like to see Knox play more physically. I get that he's undersized in terms of muscle mass but he shies away from contact more than he should.
MSG  
Jon in NYC : 12/10/2018 7:50 am : link
audio in the game Saturday night picked up a Nets player yelling at RHJ "Take him in the post, he's too weak" or something like that.

Regardless, that seems to be the consensus.

.  
DanMetroMan : 12/10/2018 9:17 am : link
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The Detroit Pistons have expressed interest in trading for Damyean Dotson, according to a league source. Luke Kennard, the backup guard, has missed games due to injury but also has not found a fit in Dwane Caseys system.
RE: All  
Enzo : 12/10/2018 9:18 am : link
In comment 14212337 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
3 are still reasonably young but imagine the Knicks used #2 overall on MGK, #9 on Kaminsky (I'd look into him), #11 on Monk? And this is all they have to show for it so far?

that type of return happens to lots of team. Once you get outside the top 4-5 of the lottery, the likelihood of getting a long term starter drops off considerably.
RE: I  
Enzo : 12/10/2018 9:20 am : link
In comment 14212313 Ira said:
Quote:
.

seems like he needs to work on everything when it comes to drives. Not everyone is a natural when it comes to finishing around the rim. The good news is that it can be improved upon.
Pistons  
DanMetroMan : 12/10/2018 9:36 am : link
have little to nothing to offer the Knicks. No 2nd round picks 2020-2023 and you sure as hell are not trading Dotson for simply a 2019 2nd.
RE: Pistons  
Anakim : 12/10/2018 10:01 am : link
In comment 14212529 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
have little to nothing to offer the Knicks. No 2nd round picks 2020-2023 and you sure as hell are not trading Dotson for simply a 2019 2nd.


There's always your boy, Stanley "the Man..ly?" Johnson
RE: RE: Pistons  
DanMetroMan : 12/10/2018 10:11 am : link
In comment 14212601 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14212529 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


have little to nothing to offer the Knicks. No 2nd round picks 2020-2023 and you sure as hell are not trading Dotson for simply a 2019 2nd.



There's always your boy, Stanley "the Man..ly?" Johnson


Hasn't developed at all. Future "well he was a high pick, worth the risk on a 1 year deal" type lol
Would  
Jon in NYC : 12/10/2018 10:43 am : link
love to find a way to get Terry Rozier.

Burke + Dotson for Rozier, who says no?
RE: Would  
nygiants16 : 12/10/2018 10:51 am : link
In comment 14212712 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
love to find a way to get Terry Rozier.

Burke + Dotson for Rozier, who says no?


but why would the celtics do that :)
Would not be thrilled about trading Dot  
Oscar : 12/10/2018 10:52 am : link
The guys I really do not want to trade under normal circumstances (meaning Knicks are not getting say Anthony Davis back) are KP, Frank, Knox, Mitch, Trier, Dotson. Thats really it.

Happy to trade Kanter, Hardaway, Vonleh, Mudiay, Burke, Lee or whoever else.
Oscar  
Carl in CT : 12/10/2018 11:27 am : link
You have to give to get but Id like to keep Noah.
Fair trade offer with Celts.  
Carl in CT : 12/10/2018 11:29 am : link
However Celts have too many bodies. They are a team that needs to do a two for one to get a star. Maybe a 3 for 1.
I would like to keep Vonleh too  
Oscar : 12/10/2018 11:39 am : link
But hes not signed next year, not sure they could retain him at an amount that makes sense considering they want two max spots. Might find a team willing to deal for him.
Vonleh is on my  
Jan in DC : 12/10/2018 11:42 am : link
young guys to keep list.
Trade  
TyreeHelmet : 12/10/2018 1:26 pm : link
What about a pure salary dump with the Kings?

Knicks trade- Kanter and THJR

Kings trade- Koustos, Shumpert , ZBO

Kings can throw in a young player or 2nd round picks but this is about getting off of Hardaway's contract.

Do the Kings do this? This gives them a major talent upgrade without having to give up any assets.
One question though Does THJR  
Carl in CT : 12/10/2018 1:36 pm : link
(With KP) help you get a max player? (I know not quite there in salary) or without him (if he is an All Star) scare a player away. Thats the $1m question.
RE: RE: Would  
Jon in NYC : 12/10/2018 1:51 pm : link
In comment 14212736 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14212712 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


love to find a way to get Terry Rozier.

Burke + Dotson for Rozier, who says no?



but why would the celtics do that :)


Rozier's a malcontent, they need a 3 and D SG, and Burke is more than serviceable as a backup point. I agree though maybe the Knicks need to throw in something else
RE: I would like to keep Vonleh too  
steve in ky : 12/10/2018 1:58 pm : link
In comment 14212843 Oscar said:
Quote:
But hes not signed next year, not sure they could retain him at an amount that makes sense considering they want two max spots. Might find a team willing to deal for him.


I hope they can keep him, he does a lot of things well.

One thing in the Knicks favor. He has bounced around with three teams before NY and never really clicked with anyone's system. He had multiple offers last season but choice the Knicks because he wanted to play for Fizdale.

He may just be be of the mind of wanting to of make it work to remain with the Knicks instead of bouncing around some more. He may view this as the best long term option for his career and reaching his full potential.
I hope  
Enzo : 12/10/2018 2:04 pm : link
they figure out a way to keep Vonleh. I really hope Mudiay is not here. I can't see any scenario where Mario or Kanter are back. Not sure how I feel about Burke. The market is potentially going to be flooded with free agents this summer - so maybe there will be opportunities to get some bargains, either with our guys or others.
I think trades should be reserved for when we actually have a guy  
adamg : 12/10/2018 2:04 pm : link
lined up.

Trading Hardaway or Lee just to open up space seems like a waste of draft picks. Unless they have Durant on the line and the difference between signing him is a 2020 first and Hardaway being shipped away, I don't see the value in just trading away guys.

And can Frank finally get some time at the 1? He's obviously great for a team-oriented basketball team. They need to start moving away from the iso ball and start playing real basketball. Frank gets us closer to that.
RE: I hope  
adamg : 12/10/2018 2:06 pm : link
In comment 14213177 Enzo said:
Quote:
they figure out a way to keep Vonleh. I really hope Mudiay is not here. I can't see any scenario where Mario or Kanter are back. Not sure how I feel about Burke. The market is potentially going to be flooded with free agents this summer - so maybe there will be opportunities to get some bargains, either with our guys or others.


Add another to the Vonleh re-up list. And I think Burke is fine as the back up point. He should be the third or fourth guy off the bench.
Yes, Knox has to finish better.  
manh george : 12/10/2018 2:10 pm : link
He will finish better when he gets way stronger, which he will. Bernard King started his professional career two years older that Knox. So, consider Knox in comparison with King as a college sophomore, not a rookie pro. Consider Knox's finishing capability in two years--plus a pretty good three, 2 1/2 inches extra height and long arms. Will he be at King level? Unlikely, but a reasonable facsimile thereof isn't out of the question.

Beginning to again look like a great pick, which wasn't the case early on.

What excited me most about Frank was that most of the shots he made were soft and right down the middle of the hoop--no stuff bouncing around that happened to go in. As he gets stronger, which he will, he could become a really good shooter, decent ball handler, great defender and decent rebounder.
The only salary dump I would make is  
#10* : 12/10/2018 2:21 pm : link
Lee. I think Kanter has proven he belongs on this roster and is a great fit for New York. Hardaway while streaky is a couple adjustments away from being a very useful player and he was drafted here.

There's no security in getting a top free agent so I'd commit to our core players leaving open one max contract other than KP.
Hezonja is only 23  
steve in ky : 12/10/2018 2:22 pm : link
I don't think they have yet given up on him working out. I wouldn't rule him out for next season as of yet.
RE: Hezonja is only 23  
adamg : 12/10/2018 2:23 pm : link
In comment 14213205 steve in ky said:
Quote:
I don't think they have yet given up on him working out. I wouldn't rule him out for next season as of yet.


Clarence Gaines is on twitter. He's been very anti-Hezonja. Can't say I know better...
Vonleh and maybr mudiay  
nygiants16 : 12/10/2018 2:26 pm : link
are the only 2 i would keep right now depending on price..

RE: RE: Hezonja is only 23  
steve in ky : 12/10/2018 2:27 pm : link
In comment 14213208 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14213205 steve in ky said:


Quote:


I don't think they have yet given up on him working out. I wouldn't rule him out for next season as of yet.



Clarence Gaines is on twitter. He's been very anti-Hezonja. Can't say I know better...


I take anything he says about the Knicks with a grain of salt. He has an axe to grind with how things ended between them and his buddy Phil Jackson
RE: Hezonja is only 23  
Enzo : 12/10/2018 2:34 pm : link
In comment 14213205 steve in ky said:
Quote:
I don't think they have yet given up on him working out. I wouldn't rule him out for next season as of yet.

Mario has all the tools but for some reason they just don't seem to add up to a quality player. I will say that most of our guards are shoot-first types....so maybe this isn't the best environment for him to develop.
Happy to see Knox coming along.  
bceagle05 : 12/10/2018 3:38 pm : link
Two 26-point games in one week or so - excellent sign for a teenager playing against grown men. You can tell the game's slowing down for him.

As for the keepers, put me down for (in this order)...

KP
Knox
Dotson
Trier
Robinson
Frank
Vonleh

I wouldn't explore the trade market until we see what the draft and free agency bring. Things aren't as bleak as they appear right now though. We knew what we were getting into this year.
And I'm not very high on Frank  
bceagle05 : 12/10/2018 3:39 pm : link
but wouldn't say I'm in a big rush to trade him.
Kanter and Hardaway are not winning  
Dave on the UWS : 12/10/2018 4:33 pm : link
type players. The sooner they are out of here the better
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