NGT: Amari Cooper

And Cooper is going to ensure they are extended and paid. This is a very good thing for Giants fans, so thank you Coop!

In comment 14212438 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 14212420 GoBlue6599 said: Quote: In comment 14212405 UConn4523 said: Quote: and pay him a huge contract. Still a bad trade from that perspective. He’s definitely doing better than I thought, however. He’s not a player I’d ever fear though so I couldn’t care less what Dallas does with him. This make no sense.. So you trade for a excellent WR and you have to pay him what he’s worth and somehow it’s a bad trade? The Cowboys are about to win the division and Coopers a big reason why It makes plenty of sense because you aren’t getting him cheap which is the point of draft picks.

Who cares about getting him cheap? What does that have to do with anything ? What’s the likelihood you get a WR anywhere close to Cooper in the draft?

In comment 14212447 Ben in Tampa said:

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And Cooper is going to ensure they are extended and paid. This is a very good thing for Giants fans, so thank you Coop!

All I hear is about how bad Garret and Dak are but yet here they are smacking around the Giants and winning the division while we get to celebrate 5-8 and beating Mark freakin Sanchez

no NFL GMs that’s for sure.

Cooper's a good WR, but there's a decent chance of drafting a better WR than him in the 1st round and he's about to start costing significant money.

First 5 games with DAL: 30 rec 425 yds 3 TDs
Yesterday: 10 rec 217 yds 3 TDs

This is like annointing BJ Hill the next JJ Watt after his 3 sack performance last week.

In comment 14212457 giants#1 said:

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Cooper's a good WR, but there's a decent chance of drafting a better WR than him in the 1st round and he's about to start costing significant money. First 5 games with DAL: 30 rec 425 yds 3 TDs Yesterday: 10 rec 217 yds 3 TDs This is like annointing BJ Hill the next JJ Watt after his 3 sack performance last week.

Even before yesterday those first 5 games are a 96 catches, 1360 yards, and 9.6 TD pace extrapolated over a full season.

That's elite WR production.

Yesterday obviously demolishes that.

IMO it's not likely they draft a WR that can do that, and given their abundance of cap space it was not a bad trade.

Of losing the first round pick they gave up. He was the missing piece in making them a playoff team.
They are the 4th youngest team in the NFL with a tremendous defense that can rush the QB with their front 4 and cover LB’s with tremendous speed in Smith and VanderEsch.
If Frederick returns from his illness their OL improves dramatically.
They just need for Dak to be a game manager.

Look I hate the Cowboys more than anybody but they are going to be good going forward.

Jerry Jones and his son always find ways to keep their good players. I see them keeping Lawrence as well as Cooper.

In comment 14212451 GoBlue6599 said:

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In comment 14212438 UConn4523 said: Quote: In comment 14212420 GoBlue6599 said: Quote: In comment 14212405 UConn4523 said: Quote: and pay him a huge contract. Still a bad trade from that perspective. He’s definitely doing better than I thought, however. He’s not a player I’d ever fear though so I couldn’t care less what Dallas does with him. This make no sense.. So you trade for a excellent WR and you have to pay him what he’s worth and somehow it’s a bad trade? The Cowboys are about to win the division and Coopers a big reason why It makes plenty of sense because you aren’t getting him cheap which is the point of draft picks. Who cares about getting him cheap? What does that have to do with anything ? What’s the likelihood you get a WR anywhere close to Cooper in the draft?

Well, I'll take Ridley over him any day and twice on Sunday's and he was taken 24th overall last year (roughly where the Cowboys pick will likely end up).

From last years draft, DJ Moore, Anthony Miller and a few others may also turn into better players than Cooper.

2017 - excluding the top 10: Cooper Kupp (69 overall), Kenny Golladay (96 overall) and Smith-Schuster (62 overall) are better than Cooper.

2016 - Will Fuller if he can stay healthy; Michael Thomas (47 overall) by a mile;

So there's a decent chance of getting a better WR than Amari Cooper.

Therefore it was an incredibly smart trade. The first round of the draft is essentially a 50/50 proposition. So Jerah took away that draft downside by getting a player who is a difference maker at a critical position of need. Now Dallas has a vertical game that is real.

And as mentioned above, they should be able to make a deal for Cooper work under the cap.

Frankly, this is one of the great in-season trades we’ve seen in a long, long time.

The Cowboys think they are building toward a championship, and still have another dirt cheap year at QB.

They have tons of cap space, and can make more jettisoning a few overpaid vets.

There's no guarantee you are going to get a player as good as Cooper in the back 1/3 of the first. It wasn't cheap, but it wasn't stupid, and the deeper they go, the lower the pick.

I hate the Cowboys more than a kick in the nuts, but getting Cooper isn't the tragedy for them some would like it to be.

if that’s the player they get than it will workout. But I’m still skeptical, 6 games is a small sample size, I’ll wait until next year to see how that goes.

yourself.

Today Anthony Miller is not better than Amari Cooper. Kenny Golladay is not better than Amari Cooper. Cooper Kupp, DJ Moore, not better than Amari Cooper.

Ridley can be, but maybe have him play a snap where he's not the #1 WR on his own team and see how he does.

Cooper has drop issues and had a down year in 2017, but he's better than every WR you mentioned except Michael Thomas and Smith-Schuster.

Now list all the WR's from those drafts who busted. I bet it's a longer list.

Ridley can be, but maybe have him play a snap where he's not the #1 WR on his own team and see how he does.

should be

Ridley can be, but maybe have him play a snap where he is the #1 WR on his own team and see how he does.

On all the sideline 1 on 1 battles

In comment 14212490 pjcas18 said:

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yourself. Today Anthony Miller is not better than Amari Cooper. Kenny Golladay is not better than Amari Cooper. Cooper Kupp, DJ Moore, not better than Amari Cooper. Ridley can be, but maybe have him play a snap where he's not the #1 WR on his own team and see how he does. Cooper has drop issues and had a down year in 2017, but he's better than every WR you mentioned except Michael Thomas and Smith-Schuster. Now list all the WR's from those drafts who busted. I bet it's a longer list.

As soon as Cooper plays some snaps at this level without Zeke drawing all the attention!

Never said the group from this years draft were better (except Ridley). Said they have the potential to be better and have all looked at least solid so far in their rookie years.

Golladay's stats for this season (his 2nd) are nearly identical to Cooper's (his 4th) despite Golladay being the 3rd WR for much of the season. But you're right, there's no comparison here.

A healthy Cooper Kupp is much better than Amari Cooper. Add him to Thomas, SS, and Ridley and you have at least 4 WRs in the last 3 drafts alone that are as good if not better and all were drafted in the bottom of the 1st or later.

but his team is one win away from 3 NFC East titles in 5 years. The only time we have ever done that is from 1986-1990 (86, 89, 90). He might not be a great football executive, but he is not as bad as people make him out to be.

his first two seasons.

None of the guys you mentioned, other than the two I noted, will sniff the pro-bowl.

Even forget the pro-bowl if you think it's a joke.

You cherry picked players, but omitted the 1st round busts (so far) like Mike Williams, John Ross, Corey Davis (based on where he was picked), Corey Coleman, Josh Doctson, Laquon Treadwell, Kevin White, Davante Parker, Nelson Agholor, Brashad Perriman, Philip Dorsett...etc.

And look at the 2019 mock drafts, I have seen some with very few or even no skill guys going in the second half of the first round.

So in essence you think the Cowboys, a team starting Allen Hurns and Tavon Austin at WR much of the year with rookie Michal Gallup should go into the draft and have to force a WR pick and it's reasonable to think that WR would be the equivalent of Amari Cooper because Michael Thomas and Juju Smith-Schuster are awesome.

Does that sound like a good approach when you have strength on both lines, a great RB, solid rest of your defense, a ton of cap room and one glaring hole?

This was one of the most obvious in-season trades in a long time and it was a good one.

I hope the Cowboys lose in as painful a manner as possible, but nothing wrong with admitting this was a solid move for them and extending Cooper would also be a good move.

Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis have had a ton of playoff appearances and 4 division titles. And seven playoff appearances without a single victory.

Would we be lauding management for the results Dallas has gotten? I'm fairly confident we wouldn't. Heck, people wanted TC fired in 2009, 2010 and 2012 and 2013. And in retrospect, doing what we did this past season back in 2013 looks like it would've been the most prudent move.

He's a very good receiver who makes their whole offense better. They're on the way to winning our division and they could do some damage in the playoffs.

Cooper's performance the past season and a half says very bad things about Derek Carr.

In comment 14212548 pjcas18 said:

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his first two seasons. None of the guys you mentioned, other than the two I noted, will sniff the pro-bowl. Even forget the pro-bowl if you think it's a joke. You cherry picked players, but omitted the 1st round busts (so far) like Mike Williams, John Ross, Corey Davis (based on where he was picked), Corey Coleman, Josh Doctson, Laquon Treadwell, Kevin White, Davante Parker, Nelson Agholor, Brashad Perriman, Philip Dorsett...etc. And look at the 2019 mock drafts, I have seen some with very few or even no skill guys going in the second half of the first round. So in essence you think the Cowboys, a team starting Allen Hurns and Tavon Austin at WR much of the year with rookie Michal Gallup should go into the draft and have to force a WR pick and it's reasonable to think that WR would be the equivalent of Amari Cooper because Michael Thomas and Juju Smith-Schuster are awesome. Does that sound like a good approach when you have strength on both lines, a great RB, solid rest of your defense, a ton of cap room and one glaring hole? This was one of the most obvious in-season trades in a long time and it was a good one. I hope the Cowboys lose in as painful a manner as possible, but nothing wrong with admitting this was a solid move for them and extending Cooper would also be a good move.

I omitted those guys because they were taken ahead of where the Cowboys pick will likely end up. I also only included guys taken in the 2nd/3rd rounds which omits guys like Diggs and Hill. And only looked at the past 3 drafts which misses guys like Beckham, Evans, Thielen, Adams, Lockett, etc. (and that's only going back to 2014).

Cooper's a low end #1 WR at best and they gave up a 1st round pick when he's a year from cashing in. You can view it as a good trade since he'll help them win the worst division in football, but unless he develops into a top 10-15 guy, I'll agree to disagree there. And it has nothing to do with overvaluing picks since I think the Raiders got screwed on the Mack deal.

wasn't even drafted. He participated in the Vikings "Call of the wild" open tryout, made their PS and then eventually worked his way onto the team as a special teamer and then into an elite WR. He's a Disney movie.

But he would be in his 4th season as a pro before he caught more passes than Cooper did as a rookie. By then the Cowboys OL window would be closed probably and Elliott on his second contract.

This is very simple. The Cowboys had an obvious need, Cooper presented an obvious solution, the trade is a good one. For both teams IMO.

Any other route the Cowboys chose to take to fill their glaring WR need would be more risky than Cooper. Sure, they could win the lottery and get a Thielen as a UDFA, or have a Michael Thomas or Smith-Schuster drop to them in the 2nd, but it's a low percentage move.

Cooper for a 1st is/was the safest transaction to fill their WR hole.

has really struggled since taking over as Det. leading pass catcher. I love they and his size, but he has been shut down by the other teams #1 CB in recent weeks.
I'm taking Cooper over him.

In comment 14212405 UConn4523 said:

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and pay him a huge contract. Still a bad trade from that perspective. He’s definitely doing better than I thought, however. He’s not a player I’d ever fear though so I couldn’t care less what Dallas does with him.

Still a bad trade? Try again, It was a steal for dallas.

people forget how good Cooper was when he came into the league, and he's only 24. I'm not a fan of this trade from a Giants perspective. The only benefit, as others have said, is that it might make the Cowboys keep Garrett and give Dak a monster contract.

is not only the QBs going down but their Oline injuries. That Oline played like the Giants did for the 1st 6-7 games. Sanchez had no chance.

Rec/YDS/TD
2018:
TJ Moore: 47/676/2
Calvin Ridley: 51/657/8

2017:
Corey Davis: 54/765/4
Mike Williams: 30/516/7
John Ross: 18/200/6

2016:
Corey Coleman: 4/63/0
Will Fuller: 32/503/4
Laquon Treadwell: 31/279/1
Josh Doctson: 39/465/2

2015:
Kevin White: 3/20/0
Amari Cooper: 62/922/7
DeVante Parker: 22/296/1
Nelson Agholor: 53/572/1
Breshad Perriman: 10/188/0
Phillip Dorsett: 27/256/2

Cooper's production is more of an anomaly than the standard for RD1 receivers. Didn't have time to avg the career stats on all these players but the numbers wouldn't be all that different. OBJ and Mike Evans would be the extreme outliers if they were included along with the rest of the 2014 first round class in both 2018 production and avg career production per season. All things considered its actually a very good deal for Dallas to give up a first round pick and the loss of cost control on a player who continues to exceed his projected value while helping secure a playoff spot. While Oakland save a ton of money they have at best a roughly one in ten chance of securing a similarly productive player if they target a receiver with one of their first round picks. It sucks but this is one of the few moves that Dallas actually probably got right.

2 huge games. It would help if he could play vs the Eagles backups more often.

Dallas isn’t winning anything with this team. No first next year and they’ll have to pay him big $$$.

I’d hold off calling this a great deal.

Cooper still disappears and drops easy ones including in yesterday’s game. DB falls down. Ball hits him in the chest and drop. It would have been an 80 yard TD.

In comment 14212745 mrvax said:

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is not only the QBs going down but their Oline injuries. That Oline played like the Giants did for the 1st 6-7 games. Sanchez had no chance.

I'm not sure if you watched the 1st half of the game, but Sanchez's first 3-5 passes were hitting guys right on the numbers, but they were dropping his passes, that killed there drive and team.

Not taking anything away from what your saying, just bringing out another point on why they struggled

What is definitely clear is that Dallas is a better run organization than the Giants are right now. Pathetic.

I agree with you, Amari Cooper was the 4th pick in the entire draft when he came out.

He is a bona fide #1, the cowboys made out big time. The Raiders will get a 1st rd pick back, but much later in the draft, especially if Dallas makes the playoffs.

In comment 14212705 djm said:

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In comment 14212405 UConn4523 said: Quote: and pay him a huge contract. Still a bad trade from that perspective. He’s definitely doing better than I thought, however. He’s not a player I’d ever fear though so I couldn’t care less what Dallas does with him. Still a bad trade? Try again, It was a steal for dallas.

Well if you say so. I’m glad it only takes 6 games for some of you to be sold on some stuff but want multiple seasons of production for Giants players before deeming it a success.

I’ll wait until next season. Right now it’s working out, it’s a long way to go and the better he plays the more money he will cost - paying him and Dak is just fine with me.

In comment 14212842 sxdxca said:

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I agree with you, Amari Cooper was the 4th pick in the entire draft when he came out. He is a bona fide #1, the cowboys made out big time. The Raiders will get a 1st rd pick back, but much later in the draft, especially if Dallas makes the playoffs.

He was very good WR at Alabama .. I don’t know what happened in Oakland but he has been great in Dallas

In comment 14212872 GoBlue6599 said:

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In comment 14212842 sxdxca said: Quote: I agree with you, Amari Cooper was the 4th pick in the entire draft when he came out. He is a bona fide #1, the cowboys made out big time. The Raiders will get a 1st rd pick back, but much later in the draft, especially if Dallas makes the playoffs. He was very good WR at Alabama .. I don’t know what happened in Oakland but he has been great in Dallas

He was great his first two years in Oakland. Bad year last year but the team was coming unglued. He's well worth a first round pick and big contract. You build around players like Cooper and Mack. Cap room and draft picks are great but remember what you're hoping to get in the draft is players like this and then eventually you have to pay them.

In comment 14213017 bluepepper said:

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In comment 14212872 GoBlue6599 said: Quote: In comment 14212842 sxdxca said: Quote: I agree with you, Amari Cooper was the 4th pick in the entire draft when he came out. He is a bona fide #1, the cowboys made out big time. The Raiders will get a 1st rd pick back, but much later in the draft, especially if Dallas makes the playoffs. He was very good WR at Alabama .. I don’t know what happened in Oakland but he has been great in Dallas He was great his first two years in Oakland. Bad year last year but the team was coming unglued. He's well worth a first round pick and big contract. You build around players like Cooper and Mack. Cap room and draft picks are great but remember what you're hoping to get in the draft is players like this and then eventually you have to pay them.

Agree with this here...Raiders fans have to be sick seeing Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper 2 top players lead there teams to the playoffs

But Jerry Jones is looking like a genius with some of his gambles the last few years. We used to laugh at how he would pull the trigger on risky bets. We ain't laughing now.

aren't we laughing??

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Hate to say it JerseyCityJoe : 1:16 pm : link : reply But Jerry Jones is looking like a genius with some of his gambles the last few years. We used to laugh at how he would pull the trigger on risky bets. We ain't laughing now.

Has he won something with his gambles? He's giving up a 1st next year and will have to resign Cooper and they still are likely a one and done team this year.

Smith was a gamble that is paying dividends 2 years later.

We made the playoffs in 2016 by basically having a healthy team and a dominant D and many people correctly said it was done with smoke and mirrors. Dallas has needed devastating injuries to the division leader to sit atop the division, but it is now because they are a well constructed, well-run team?

Keep your head in the sand and use those weak arguments on someone else. He's putting together a powerhouse and anyone with a brain should see it.

In comment 14213195 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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aren't we laughing?? Quote: Hate to say it JerseyCityJoe : 1:16 pm : link : reply But Jerry Jones is looking like a genius with some of his gambles the last few years. We used to laugh at how he would pull the trigger on risky bets. We ain't laughing now. Has he won something with his gambles? He's giving up a 1st next year and will have to resign Cooper and they still are likely a one and done team this year. Smith was a gamble that is paying dividends 2 years later. We made the playoffs in 2016 by basically having a healthy team and a dominant D and many people correctly said it was done with smoke and mirrors. Dallas has needed devastating injuries to the division leader to sit atop the division, but it is now because they are a well constructed, well-run team?

Not to mention they were about to fire their coach and hire Lincoln Riley 3 weeks ago!

In comment 14213312 JerseyCityJoe said:

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Keep your head in the sand and use those weak arguments on someone else. He's putting together a powerhouse and anyone with a brain should see it.

People have called the Cowboys a merging powerhouse in the past and then having it fizzle out. Lets wait until they win a championship before we anoint this group as one. To this point they are simply winning a week division and haven't done anything else.

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Fats lol JerseyCityJoe : 3:09 pm : link : reply Keep your head in the sand and use those weak arguments on someone else. He's putting together a powerhouse and anyone with a brain should see it.

Sure. Was everyone's head in the sand 4 weeks ago when they were fighting to be slightly better than the Giants and then had Washington fortuitously lose several OL players and 2 QB's to magically vault over them??

They've had one of the best OL's in the game and arguably the best RB and they've won how many rings??

By logic I've seen used on this site in the past several months, the powerhouse is going to be hard to sustain since Zeke's prime started ticking Day 1, and keeping together the OL will be hard without breaking the bank, and giving up a #1 draft pick takes away valuable equity.

Dallas is an average team in a terrible division. That's what my eyes tell me and have told me for the past two decades.

Powerhouse my ass.

In comment 14213082 JerseyCityJoe said:

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But Jerry Jones is looking like a genius with some of his gambles the last few years. We used to laugh at how he would pull the trigger on risky bets. We ain't laughing now.

You do realize that any positives achieved by the Cowboys are more the doing of Stephen Jones and much less that of JJ, whether he (JJ) ultimately signs off on them or not?

that is

In comment 14213356 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Dallas is an average team in a terrible division. That's what my eyes tell me and have told me for the past two decades. Powerhouse my ass.

Powerhouse - no. Everything is too close to the vest. But they have a playoff caliber defense and recently stymied the Saints. Which is no joke. So that is certainly noteworthy.

Look, the division is wacked. There hasn't been a repeat winner in like 15 years. But it has produced SB winners with some serious warts... ;)

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You do realize that any positives achieved by the Cowboys are more the doing of Stephen Jones and much less that of JJ, whether he (JJ) ultimately signs off on them or not?

I do, but whats the difference? As you said JJ ultimately has the final say. He's been more hit than miss is really my point.

His OL is one of the best. His DL is one of the best. His LB core is one of the best. He has one of the best RB in the game. He just picked up a receiver that can stretch the field and turn games around which they have been missing.

Now no one hate Dallas like I do and I am not saying they are SB bound just yet. But I think we Giant fans can give credit where credit is due.

be said for the past several years:

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His OL is one of the best. His DL is one of the best. His LB core is one of the best. He has one of the best RB in the game. He just picked up a receiver that can stretch the field and turn games around which they have been missing.

So again, what have they won??

Fats for someone who has a gift for understanding complex issues and a almost encyclopedic memory for statistical constructs, I really don't understand your resistance to my original simple take.

Dallas and JJ has made some shrewd bets on talent that for reasons of personal issues or injury history have been paying off right now.

What have they won you ask? They same thing that a team like KC or LA has won. Nothing. But that does not mean its going to stay that way.

only the successes, of course it will look good.

What about the gambles of signing Greg Hardy? Of going into the season with the WR corps that they did? Retaining Garrett as HC?

Can you imagine the reaction if we were contender and went into a season with a WR corps like Dallas did? Hell, Gettleman gets crucified for signing Stewart. If he went into a season with Allen Hurns as a #1 WR, would we be calling it a shrewd move and a gamble?

The Cowboys have been playing well for a stretch of games, so everything that has been done is "paying off"?? It really doesn't mean squat if they haven't won.

In comment 14213666 JerseyCityJoe said:

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Quote: You do realize that any positives achieved by the Cowboys are more the doing of Stephen Jones and much less that of JJ, whether he (JJ) ultimately signs off on them or not? I do, but whats the difference? As you said JJ ultimately has the final say. He's been more hit than miss is really my point. His OL is one of the best. His DL is one of the best. His LB core is one of the best. He has one of the best RB in the game. He just picked up a receiver that can stretch the field and turn games around which they have been missing. Now no one hate Dallas like I do and I am not saying they are SB bound just yet. But I think we Giant fans can give credit where credit is due.

Joe understood, but those position upgrades you cite were mostly his son’s doing. Remember, JJ wanted Manziel, his son took Zach Martin.

will get the overall credit from me and he should