Average QBR of 108, 10 TDs, and 2 Ints. I'll take that. Is he perfect? No. But he never was. He'll always make that "WTF throw." But he'll alo make throws like the one to coleman, a check out of plays to put the team in a better position, etc.. With just a mediocre line, Eli can still make plays.
looking at it in aggregate is different than the current specific dilemma.
jimmy i would agree normally about win projections but a decent line and saquon may get the Giants to wins alone he is that good. not to mention if the line is decent odell will get open.
not that that changes my opinion of current day Eli. a game manager who should hang them up.
Wins...I took that into account. Keep in mind our entire team until this last game has been healthy for the most part which is unheard of. And let me know how many 2nd and 3rd string QBs we have played. Amongst others...
jimmy i would agree normally about win projections but a decent line and saquon may get the Giants to wins alone he is that good. not to mention if the line is decent odell will get open.
not that that changes my opinion of current day Eli. a game manager who should hang them up.
If they extended him that would be a startling amount of incompetence. I HAVE to believe they aren’t that stupid. Although the evidence isn’t in their favor.
Quote:
and Im' fine with it since 2020 is the draft to go get a QB. But on what planet will he or should he "take a discount"? I wouldn't if I was him, and neither would any of you.
Eli could play for free in 2019 and his career earnings would still exceed his career production relative to his peers and their earnings/production. In a salary cap league, that's a lot more relevant than whether fans with normal jobs would "take a discount."
And that's without considering the fact that many normal people do choose to work for less to stay with a company or in a town/city that they prefer (whether that's by way of passing on a new job, turning down a relocation opportunity, etc.). So "neither would any of you" is kind of a throwaway bullshit statement.
You do realize that any qb picked first overall in any draft ranging from 04 to whenever the rookie pay scale was adjusted or capped, was going to be the #1 earner of all time IF he lived up to his initial contract and hype, right? Don’t tell me about tom Brady, He’s a weirdo exception and he wasn’t picked first overall. Plus the pats org is 100% full of shit anyway. So fuck them too. Any qb not named Brady is maxing out. He’s a fucking robot.
So yeah let’s bring Eli back again. I love when the Giants ceiling is 7-9
Quote:
that his earnings have overmatched his production....
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
If you can get 2 SB titles AND 26 more regular season wins AND 5 more postseason wins while not leading the NFL in turnovers for the entirety of his career, all for the bargain price of FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS less... yes, Eli's earnings have exceeded his production.
He will finish his career as the highest paid player in NFL history and has never been the best player in the league for any stretch of his career. How anyone can claim that Eli has not been overpaid, relative to his peers, over the balance of his career boggles my mind.
It boggles your mind? When did you start following pro sports? Yesterday?
First overall pick when there was virtually no rookie cap. Super bowl mvp by age 27. Two time super bowl mvp and nyg legend by 30-31. And it boggles your mind? Why? How?
But we've heard the song and dance for years now. I half believe people here would've preferred to have Tony Romo over Eli. There used to be threads several times a year trying to make the argument that Romo was the superior QB.
I cringe when posters intimate that this is a recent thing to question Eli. It has basically gone on fairly consistently throughout his career.
But we've heard the song and dance for years now. I half believe people here would've preferred to have Tony Romo over Eli. There used to be threads several times a year trying to make the argument that Romo was the superior QB.
I cringe when posters intimate that this is a recent thing to question Eli. It has basically gone on fairly consistently throughout his career.
Spot on. The Romo fan club was strong
Don’t forget Houston too.
Quote:
To still post here makes me believe he is Eric’s or Gidies cousin. Everyone knows he is just a troll at this point.
ha, the standard dep troll accusation anytime he’s got nothing of substance to offer.as predictable as Eli throwing a bone headed pick
Compared to the standard Les post where he could post only something negative of Eli because he isn’t smart enough to talk about anything else?
100% troll at this point. Tell us again Eli beat no good teams this year or how Vince young was better than Eli.
Quote:
To still post here makes me believe he is Eric’s or Gidies cousin. Everyone knows he is just a troll at this point.
ha, the standard dep troll accusation anytime he’s got nothing of substance to offer.as predictable as Eli throwing a bone headed pick
Are we taking about the same Eli who’s only thrown 8 INTs in 13 games? Same as Tom Brady, and fewer than Mahomes, Goff, and about 15 other guys?
Almost have to admire the determination with which some of these babies invent excuses and refuse to acknowledge how well Eli is playing this season.
It must be so hard to see Eli play well and the Giants win, so you don’t get to say “I told you so” for a week and instead have to invent lame excuses.
Can he be upgraded? sure. Show me the upgrade first, though.
Some here just want to dump Eli at any cost, no matter whether there's a plan in place or not.
the Giants have to get a player that represents a better long term potential upside than Eli and/or a better value.
He's starting next year almost assuredly. I would hope they could work on terms like Peyton did with the Broncos.
I will say it is nice to see him playing better. Not nearly as 'great' as some have implied here but he is playing solid football. Believe it or not, for many of us critical of the Giants for being in this situation and critical of Eli play, its not personal animus towards him at all. In fact, I thought they should try to spare his winning record and protect him from the beatings he was taking not just physically but image wise earlier in the year.
Its in fact possible to have a few of these viewpoints at the same time-nice to see Eli has some game left to him we have not seen in a while, while recogizing he has limitations and because he is showing better recently still no reason to make long term plans with him given his age in particular.
I’d say that’s pretty damn good.
I do hope it continues though as a fan...
Eli is Eli and you will scratch your head at least once per game, but he made a few very nice throws Sunday. I think the only bad one was on the goal line that Shepard broke up.
I do hope it continues though as a fan...
I don’t think fans should look at these last few weeks other than by putting competent people around Eli... whoever replaces him will be in a good spot.
Barkley and OBJ are the horses. Give an OL that’s average and these two will lead to a lot of points no matter who the QB is.
Quote:
the last few weeks. But I don’t subscribe to view that we have a consistent winner at QB any longer.
I do hope it continues though as a fan...
I don’t think fans should look at these last few weeks other than by putting competent people around Eli... whoever replaces him will be in a good spot.
Barkley and OBJ are the horses. Give an OL that’s average and these two will lead to a lot of points no matter who the QB is.
Agree mostly. So who were these competent people that made the diff these past several weeks...Brown?
I certainly hope he can produce like this next year in a full schedule. It would be a best season by a mile for him as far as qb rating and stats. Not that I think much of that.......the Gilbride system while it worked put points up at the expense of high qb rating with the hero throws it emphasized.
Granted maybe this setup with another lineman added works well next year. The schedule has been soft though recently, dont want to hear about the Skins d as they had basically thrown the towel in early.
A lot to observe the next three weeks. Hope he keeps it up.
I don't see anyone saying to pass over a franchise prospect at QB if opportunity presents itself.
I do see a lot of dump Eli no matter what.
there is some decent percentage that thinks he should play another few seasons; not anything i have proof for but i get the sense of from reading enough material here. some won’t out admit it but I have my suspicions.
Who the fuck cares if Eli was or is overpaid by X amount of money all these years? Haven’t you guys gotten used to 100 million dollar contracts by now?
Lazy. Worthless. Garbage.
the real issue is the Giants ought to negotiate a better deal for next year because they could use those dollars elsewhere and in spite of his recent play he has not been worth this premium and should get into something better; they possess leverage now. that is absolutely worthwhile.
1)What motivation does Eli have to take a pay cut? Pay cuts are almost always completed in the form of a restructure and I don't think we should expend eli
2) The Players Association would likely try to block a straight pay cut as they certainly don't want that type of solution implemented.
1)What motivation does Eli have to take a pay cut? Pay cuts are almost always completed in the form of a restructure and I don't think we should expend eli
2) The Players Association would likely try to block a straight pay cut as they certainly don't want that type of solution implemented.
He does have a $5M roster bonus, so the Giants do have a little leverage. Basically he's set to earn $17M in "new" money ($11.5 base + $5 RB + $0.5 workout bonus) from the Giants in 2019. So if the Giants wanted to play hardball with him they could threaten to cut him if he doesn't take a paycut.
The question then becomes: what can Eli reasonably expect to get on the open market? If it's more than that $17M and he doesn't mind finishing his career elsewhere, he can (and would) certainly push back and refuse a pay cut. But if it's let's say $12M, then there's certainly room for a an agreement.
The Giants could also simply add a year at say $5M and fully guarantee his $5M roster bonus and part of his base salary to spread the cap hits. So essentially make it a 2 yr/$22M deal with $10M gtd. His 2019 cap hit would then be $11M + the remaining $6M currently owed ($17M total, $6M less than currently) with a 2020 cap hit of $11M.
i don’t think Giants will go down this road but it’s not outrageous for them to ask. article th other day in the ny post about this.
Four teams who are currently very poor defensively. On top of that, the added bonus of playing a few of those teams with QBs who were more than gracious with their turnovers that created great scoring opportunities.
Alas, at the end of the day, this is going to lead to exactly what's going on here - that Eli still has the goods for this team to make a run. And the order will be issued once again from our fine friends at Jints Central: do what it takes for Eli.
Welcome to the definition of insanity...
I’d say that’s pretty damn good.
I'd say it's a pretty damn small sample size.
you really need to get some help.....
Quote:
In comment 14213238 dep026 said:
Quote:
that his earnings have overmatched his production....
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
If you can get 2 SB titles AND 26 more regular season wins AND 5 more postseason wins while not leading the NFL in turnovers for the entirety of his career, all for the bargain price of FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS less... yes, Eli's earnings have exceeded his production.
He will finish his career as the highest paid player in NFL history and has never been the best player in the league for any stretch of his career. How anyone can claim that Eli has not been overpaid, relative to his peers, over the balance of his career boggles my mind.
It boggles your mind? When did you start following pro sports? Yesterday?
First overall pick when there was virtually no rookie cap. Super bowl mvp by age 27. Two time super bowl mvp and nyg legend by 30-31. And it boggles your mind? Why? How?
It's a salary cap league. The best teams know how to maximize value in their roster construction. Paying a QB who at best was borderline top 10 in the league more money than any other player has ever earned is a poor value proposition.
Maybe "boggles my mind" was the wrong term, but I figured it was kinder than "disappoints me."
As for how long I've followed pro sports, I'll put my background up against almost anyone here, save for a few obvious exceptions. You're not one of them.
Today's argument is about who the QB is going to be during the transition. Tough it out with a rookie? Will there be a rookie to be had this year? Do you try a retread vet? is it likely any of them will be any better than Eli?
It's all well and good to say get a QB to build around, but what if one isn't available to do so? Who is the QB during the interim until one is available? Eli certainly is in the mix for that discussion.
I think they have to pay him for 2019 and take it from there.
they cut simms in 94 and keeping him around would not have led to a fundamentally different outcome anyway, maybe a better 94 and 95 (they were not getting past the 9ers and Boys of that era) but do they get to a Kerry Collins by 98 if they start the Brown experiment later? Same type of scenarios apply here.
Think long term and they will be well served. And perhaps that is playing him next year and if he surprises people he carries on and there really is a few seasons left. Im open minded enough to that outcome; as unlikely as I see that as being reality; I dont see how a team that is ascending on offense should be held back by a piece that will clearly descend soon (and probably already has) and will have to take time to create a window for the replacement to get up to speed. the giants have to think about maximizing Barkley and Beckham, and their o line is getting better and can continue to; they have a tough order in front of them with Manning in his twilight and getting the right prospect in here and then going through at least a year of growing pains.
Quote:
Would translate to 32 TDs and 7 INTs.
I’d say that’s pretty damn good.
I'd say it's a pretty damn small sample size.
1/3 of the season?
Shit you weren’t around blasting people after a game... we’re you?
Today's argument is about who the QB is going to be during the transition. Tough it out with a rookie? Will there be a rookie to be had this year? Do you try a retread vet? is it likely any of them will be any better than Eli?
It's all well and good to say get a QB to build around, but what if one isn't available to do so? Who is the QB during the interim until one is available? Eli certainly is in the mix for that discussion.
I would frame the existing circumstances this way instead - can we win a SB with Eli? A simple, straight-forward question.
If the answer is yes, by yes I would say a 50% or > chance, then the organization should go all in.
If no, which is where I am, you draft a QB, or go with Lauletta, and deal with the growing pains right away. Right into the deep end of the pool. What's the point of another sentimental Eli tour?
i do think they have some fear of moving to a rookie with a peak saquon and odell and will try to ride manning as long as possible. of course what do i really know but it comes across that way.
I was just thinking about this. I personally don't like to include Brady in these because he has a super model wife that makes more than Tom while technically being retired. Still, Brady gives his team a discount and regardless of circumstance, it does help his team. I don't think any other QB is willing to do this though. Just another advantage that the Patriots currently have over other teams.
Roethlisberger, however, signed his latest contract extension about the same time as Eli. Ben's total cap for that extension is $105,795,000 with $54,750,000 guaranteed. Eli's total cap for the same extension at roughly the same time is $103,750,000 with $58,000,000 guaranteed. I think it's far more relevant to look at the latest contract and not the total contract. Eli had about an $11 million to $12 million head start before one of them extended by simply being drafted higher than Ben.
That being the case and looking at their latest extension, Ben's cap is higher but his guarantees are lower. I think your kind of splitting hairs there. It's certainly not significantly less than Eli.
I'm in the camp that it is time to search for a new QB, but we're not desperate. If one falls into our lap, rush to the podium or make a trade to get there. But don't dump Eli just to pick/play a mediocre or worse QB just for the hell of it. You're not getting to a SB that way, either. Be patient. If a good QB isn't attainable this year, work on other parts of the team that we can and go with Eli another year. Rinse and repeat next year or until we get desperate.
that’s not all due to their individual talents, more that pitt is better but ben during this contract has also probably outplayed manning.
of course the Giants did not sign manning to not make playoff appearances but they signed him in 2015 off of four non playoff years. so some of it is self inflicted......and there is no reason for them not to reconsider this next contract season.
Quote:
In comment 14214335 dep026 said:
Quote:
Would translate to 32 TDs and 7 INTs.
I’d say that’s pretty damn good.
I'd say it's a pretty damn small sample size.
1/3 of the season?
Shit you weren’t around blasting people after a game... we’re you?
Yes, 1/3 of a season is a small sample size. I know you loathe statistics in general, but don't be obtuse.
And was I blasting people after one game because of one game? Was that one game consistent with a larger sample size or no? I'm honestly asking because I don't remember doing that, but I could definitely be wrong.