Average QBR of 108, 10 TDs, and 2 Ints. I'll take that. Is he perfect? No. But he never was. He'll always make that "WTF throw." But he'll alo make throws like the one to coleman, a check out of plays to put the team in a better position, etc.. With just a mediocre line, Eli can still make plays.
I fully understand Omameh is a ghastly bad football player, and most second graders would be an upgrade, but Brown has been very bad in the last few games.
The 9ers and Bucs are one thing. The Eagles, Bears and Skins are another. If he's more the guy we've seen the last 3 weeks, he's not part of the future as UFA.
I fully understand Omameh is a ghastly bad football player, and most second graders would be an upgrade, but Brown has been very bad in the last few games.
The 9ers and Bucs are one thing. The Eagles, Bears and Skins are another. If he's more the guy we've seen the last 3 weeks, he's not part of the future as UFA.
I'm not saying Brown is an all star. And while he has been at best okay, the line has gone from tragedy to slightly above mediocre. I'm more pointing out that with a simply okay line, Eli can perform at a high level.
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And I said it was because they could never field an OL that would support him in time for his contract to expire. I'm so very very happy that it looks like Jamon Brown may have proven me wrong. I'm perfectly happy to have Eli start for this team in 2019. But honestly, I would really like to see him take a team friendly discount. Put another piece on that OL and one or two ER's on defense and look out.
Think Abrams could work something out in deferred salary with ELI if he wants another shot at the playoffs next season. Get a couple of stud FA to shore up that OL.
That's the dream.
I said it too, for the same reasons.
Again, he's not unique in this regard, but over the course of his career, Eli has been least effective when faced with consistent A-gap pressure... this is going back to 2008 or so when Philly would pound him with straight A-gap and cross-axe blitzes (a Jim Johnson hallmark).
In recent years, it's been less about designed A-gap blitzes and more simple E-T/T-E line stunts where our guards (you name 'em... Jerry, Omameh, Greco, Fluker) get beat because they struggled to pass off the twist. Part of that is attributable to tackles, but the result was usually the inside rusher getting penetration in Eli's face and consequently disrupting the play.
Brown is a big body, occupies a lot of space, and is technically proficient. He's playing at an above-average professional level (in other words, I believe he would start over more than half of the offensive guards in the league) and has thus stabilized the right side of the line from center out. Most importantly, he's substantially negated a relatively basic tactic defenses have employed effectively against us for years, which also happens to be one of Eli's biggest bugaboos. So, significant improvement in that particular area has resulted in an outsize improvement in the play of our quarterback.
I agree
I agree with you, especially about Eli being done here and how it has turned around. There is not a snowball's chance in hell he takes less money though.
Eli can still play though, it should be obvious to anyone. I would love to see him lead the team into the playoffs one more time.
Eli shouldn't take or be asked to take a pay cut. He's paid like an average starter which is what he is. Further, we have enough money ($30+m) to get whatever FA we want.
Pretty ironic considering you're a dupe troll yourself.
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And I said it was because they could never field an OL that would support him in time for his contract to expire. I'm so very very happy that it looks like Jamon Brown may have proven me wrong. I'm perfectly happy to have Eli start for this team in 2019. But honestly, I would really like to see him take a team friendly discount. Put another piece on that OL and one or two ER's on defense and look out.
Eli shouldn't take or be asked to take a pay cut. He's paid like an average starter which is what he is. Further, we have enough money ($30+m) to get whatever FA we want.
Eli is on pace to be the highest paid player in NFL history, including his own QB contemporaries - more than a few of which have had superior career production than he has had. He might be paid like an average starter in a snapshot right now, but on balance, he has been very well compensated - it would be very easy to justify asking him to take a pay cut (as Diver proposed last week - waive his 2019 roster and workout bonuses in exchange for fully guaranteeing his 2019 salary).
But it's moot - the Mannings do not take pay cuts. Ever.
I don't know what christian is looking at, but it's different OL play than I'm seeing. Going to the gravamen of regulator's post, re. Jamon Brown's play, what exacerbates Eli's weakness and vulnerability in facing the rush up the middle, is his lack of quickness, and twitch, which he has never had--and that is only going to stay as bad or get worse. His effort yesterday to spin away from a rush up the middle was, unfortunately, comical, as one of the rushers closed in, scraped his jersey with his hand, Eli spun trying to do a 360 and fell to earth.
Eli could play for free in 2019 and his career earnings would still exceed his career production relative to his peers and their earnings/production. In a salary cap league, that's a lot more relevant than whether fans with normal jobs would "take a discount."
And that's without considering the fact that many normal people do choose to work for less to stay with a company or in a town/city that they prefer (whether that's by way of passing on a new job, turning down a relocation opportunity, etc.). So "neither would any of you" is kind of a throwaway bullshit statement.
and it’s extremely flawed in the case of manning or in sports in general. the giants should give him no choice and he would have none other than to test the market.
it won’t happen but GD is spot on. Giants should force a negotiation down or draft a replacement and sign a replacement level player to start. But they are too scared and won’t do it.
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and Im' fine with it since 2020 is the draft to go get a QB. But on what planet will he or should he "take a discount"? I wouldn't if I was him, and neither would any of you.
Eli could play for free in 2019 and his career earnings would still exceed his career production relative to his peers and their earnings/production. In a salary cap league, that's a lot more relevant than whether fans with normal jobs would "take a discount."
And that's without considering the fact that many normal people do choose to work for less to stay with a company or in a town/city that they prefer (whether that's by way of passing on a new job, turning down a relocation opportunity, etc.). So "neither would any of you" is kind of a throwaway bullshit statement.
So is counting another persons money. Its also about precedent and respect. The players association won't like it if one of the highest paid players just takes a huge paycut, there's other factors involved here other than just you counting Eli's bank account.
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and Im' fine with it since 2020 is the draft to go get a QB. But on what planet will he or should he "take a discount"? I wouldn't if I was him, and neither would any of you.
Eli could play for free in 2019 and his career earnings would still exceed his career production relative to his peers and their earnings/production. In a salary cap league, that's a lot more relevant than whether fans with normal jobs would "take a discount."
And that's without considering the fact that many normal people do choose to work for less to stay with a company or in a town/city that they prefer (whether that's by way of passing on a new job, turning down a relocation opportunity, etc.). So "neither would any of you" is kind of a throwaway bullshit statement.
So you're blaming Eli for trying to make as much money as he can? This is one of the oddest takes ever.
Considering he plays in era where contracts and salary caps go up every year, he has played 15 years, and plays a premium position.... it shouldnt really be a shock should it? I mean in 10 years, a dozen players will surpass him and no one will even remember.
leverage works both ways though and all is fair. Giants should absolutely challenge eli’s salary for next year.
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
When he signed his first re-up, I believe he already won his first Championship and game MVP, and his second re-up he had done it again. Tack on longevity, availability, durability, clutch in biggest games, ability to navigate New York and the media......yeah, I don’t think this organization is worrying about the money paid Eli.
14 yrs later, Baker Mayfield 33m or so over 4 yrs. I’m sure if Baker can win one SB per contract, the Browns will make him a very wealthy man, and be glad to pay.
Can someone point to a specific instance where the money paid our QB has prevented us from signing or trading for someone we wanted? I can’t recall one, and we have spent as much as anyone in FA over the years.
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
If you can get 2 SB titles AND 26 more regular season wins AND 5 more postseason wins while not leading the NFL in turnovers for the entirety of his career, all for the bargain price of FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS less... yes, Eli's earnings have exceeded his production.
He will finish his career as the highest paid player in NFL history and has never been the best player in the league for any stretch of his career. How anyone can claim that Eli has not been overpaid, relative to his peers, over the balance of his career boggles my mind.
Or are you saying "IF, AND ONLY IF" the Giants decide to keep Eli then you hope it would be under a team-friendly deal?
Eli has been overpaid in his most recent contract, that still doesn't mean he should take a pay cut. He earned that contract and the Giants didn't have to agree to it. But they did and now here we are. Its a pointless thing to argue about.
Or are you saying "IF, AND ONLY IF" the Giants decide to keep Eli then you hope it would be under a team-friendly deal?
No, I'd eat it and let him walk after 2019. I honestly don't know what the alternative is if we don't take a QB high, so rather than finding someone off the scrap heap that will still be expensive relative to their ability, why not just keep things as is and then move on.
I've got an open mind heading into 2019, mostly because I really don't know what our options are.
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that his earnings have overmatched his production....
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
If you can get 2 SB titles AND 26 more regular season wins AND 5 more postseason wins while not leading the NFL in turnovers for the entirety of his career, all for the bargain price of FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS less... yes, Eli's earnings have exceeded his production.
He will finish his career as the highest paid player in NFL history and has never been the best player in the league for any stretch of his career. How anyone can claim that Eli has not been overpaid, relative to his peers, over the balance of his career boggles my mind.
I have seen odd takes on this board.
This may take the cake.
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and continuing to kick the can down the road to restructuring the position?
Or are you saying "IF, AND ONLY IF" the Giants decide to keep Eli then you hope it would be under a team-friendly deal?
No, I'd eat it and let him walk after 2019. I honestly don't know what the alternative is if we don't take a QB high, so rather than finding someone off the scrap heap that will still be expensive relative to their ability, why not just keep things as is and then move on.
I've got an open mind heading into 2019, mostly because I really don't know what our options are.
Yeah, I don't know what our options either but Giants should have at least some as QB do become available each season.
I just really feel we have to cut this Eli-cord in order to get better (albeit maybe not in 2019) or risk languishing in bad/mediocrity land much longer...
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In comment 14212509 bradshaw44 said:
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And I said it was because they could never field an OL that would support him in time for his contract to expire. I'm so very very happy that it looks like Jamon Brown may have proven me wrong. I'm perfectly happy to have Eli start for this team in 2019. But honestly, I would really like to see him take a team friendly discount. Put another piece on that OL and one or two ER's on defense and look out.
Eli shouldn't take or be asked to take a pay cut. He's paid like an average starter which is what he is. Further, we have enough money ($30+m) to get whatever FA we want.
Eli is on pace to be the highest paid player in NFL history, including his own QB contemporaries - more than a few of which have had superior career production than he has had. He might be paid like an average starter in a snapshot right now, but on balance, he has been very well compensated - it would be very easy to justify asking him to take a pay cut (as Diver proposed last week - waive his 2019 roster and workout bonuses in exchange for fully guaranteeing his 2019 salary).
But it's moot - the Mannings do not take pay cuts. Ever.
I thought Peyton took a pay cut his last season in Denver.
and there will never be a suitable replacement to some. I get one more year given we are stuck with lauletta and I would rather cut the cord as well.
But witness how enamored many are with our winning against dregs and backups and no surprise we will find the cries for him to come back and be extended by many here.......
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In comment 14213238 dep026 said:
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that his earnings have overmatched his production....
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
If you can get 2 SB titles AND 26 more regular season wins AND 5 more postseason wins while not leading the NFL in turnovers for the entirety of his career, all for the bargain price of FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS less... yes, Eli's earnings have exceeded his production.
He will finish his career as the highest paid player in NFL history and has never been the best player in the league for any stretch of his career. How anyone can claim that Eli has not been overpaid, relative to his peers, over the balance of his career boggles my mind.
I have seen odd takes on this board.
This may take the cake.
It's hardly an odd take. It's just one that you disagree with because of your affection for Eli that supersedes your ability to view things logically.
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In comment 14212857 BillT said:
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In comment 14212509 bradshaw44 said:
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And I said it was because they could never field an OL that would support him in time for his contract to expire. I'm so very very happy that it looks like Jamon Brown may have proven me wrong. I'm perfectly happy to have Eli start for this team in 2019. But honestly, I would really like to see him take a team friendly discount. Put another piece on that OL and one or two ER's on defense and look out.
Eli shouldn't take or be asked to take a pay cut. He's paid like an average starter which is what he is. Further, we have enough money ($30+m) to get whatever FA we want.
Eli is on pace to be the highest paid player in NFL history, including his own QB contemporaries - more than a few of which have had superior career production than he has had. He might be paid like an average starter in a snapshot right now, but on balance, he has been very well compensated - it would be very easy to justify asking him to take a pay cut (as Diver proposed last week - waive his 2019 roster and workout bonuses in exchange for fully guaranteeing his 2019 salary).
But it's moot - the Mannings do not take pay cuts. Ever.
I thought Peyton took a pay cut his last season in Denver.
You're right, he did (actually I think it was the season before his last, but your point is valid anyway). Technically the amount by which his salary was reduced was converted to incentives that he had a chance to recoup, but he didn't end up earning it, so it wound up being a pay cut. So there's hope!
I think that's a very fair reasoning of the situation at hand. The Giants have zero 'need' for Eli next year. None. Many fans expect him to be gone anyway, so there won't be backlash if they do let him go. This means Mara doesn't have any PR image matters to worry about. I really think this is the position they should take with Eli. And if he doesn't accept it, let him go. Simple as that.
Wouldn't you only do so if we need him?
Wouldn't you only do so if we need him?
Because the team wouldn't mind having a winning season and possibly making some noise in the playoffs next year. But even if they do it's not a glimpse of the future, it's one last hurrah before the next generation. And if we need to start that one season early by letting Eli walk, then do so. It's basically just telling Eli, we will give you one last shot at the title, but it will be on our terms. And if he doesn't want to then that's on him. Either way you slice it, 2020 is the next generation. Win, lose or draw in 2019.
At some point our luck of playing backup QBs will end...sadly
we are going through mirage we saw in 94 and 13 with current run.
Giants may even be an 8-8 or 9-7 team with eli next year but no future in him.
At some point our luck of playing backup QBs will end...sadly
Odd's are you are correct about winning with Eli. But the odds of us winning anything with a stop gap are probably worse. And if Eli does produce another shit season then we use the draft position to make a move for one of the 2020 QB's. Basically 2019 is a year of limbo with or without Eli so why not take a shot if he's willing to take a cut?
I'm sure we all hope that our wait for the next franchise QB isn't a long one. But being lucky enough to go from Montana to Young, Favre to Rogers, or even Peyton to Luck is highly unlikely.
we are going through mirage we saw in 94 and 13 with current run.
Giants may even be an 8-8 or 9-7 team with eli next year but no future in him.
Yea everyone needs to understand, next year if Eli is on this team and starting, it isn't about the future. It's the end of the era. Even if Eli puts together one last magical run and we go 19-0 there is NO chance we extend him. It might get him a hefty payday from a desperate team that buys into the Super Bowl hype, but it won't be the Giants.
The NYG may not like any QBs in the 2019 draft or be able to draft the one(s) they do like. But keeping Eli around longer is surely not going to reap us any rewards...
Basically 2019 is a year of limbo with or without Eli so why not take a shot if he's willing to take a cut?
Understood the view. Its just not mine. Imv, we have basically zero shot of doing anything but middling around 4-6 wins with some highs and lots of lows...
The NYG may not like any QBs in the 2019 draft or be able to draft the one(s) they do like. But keeping Eli around longer is surely not going to reap us any rewards...
Which may be true. But what would you have them do? Start Tanney next year to ensure we get a good pick? That's the conundrum. The Giants can't openly say they are tanking 2019 so fans should just pack it in and come back in 2020. That's why I refer to it as limbo. We are kind of just stuck in a holding pattern at this point. Maybe if a team with no QB need is sitting their when Herbert, Grier or Lock (I am not saying these will be the guys NYG should be interested in, just using the names out there right now) are sitting there this year and they call and make us a proposition DG will take it. But the possibility of that happening is probably about as good as us winning the SB next year.
It's a shitty situation anyway you look at it.
Not a pleasant thought but we may have to consider a view that we draft a QB early in 2019 because he "passes" enough tests. And ultimately see even better prospects in 2020 and make yet another QB move. I know we have other needs, but imv until we get that right guy under center, its all moot...
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In comment 14213259 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14213238 dep026 said:
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that his earnings have overmatched his production....
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
If you can get 2 SB titles AND 26 more regular season wins AND 5 more postseason wins while not leading the NFL in turnovers for the entirety of his career, all for the bargain price of FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS less... yes, Eli's earnings have exceeded his production.
He will finish his career as the highest paid player in NFL history and has never been the best player in the league for any stretch of his career. How anyone can claim that Eli has not been overpaid, relative to his peers, over the balance of his career boggles my mind.
I have seen odd takes on this board.
This may take the cake.
It's hardly an odd take. It's just one that you disagree with because of your affection for Eli that supersedes your ability to view things logically.
So you’re tellig me.... that he has underproduced as a player with all the yards and TDs and SB rings because he has thrown a few too many INTs?
You’re right it’s not an odd take. It’s a moronic take. Every team in the NFL would make their QB the richest player in the history of it meant not one but TWO titles.
The only people who thinks he has underperformed his contract have been his constant detractors for his entire career. I rather support a player for what he has done and meant that shit on him for the dumbest of things.
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In comment 14213313 dep026 said:
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In comment 14213259 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14213238 dep026 said:
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that his earnings have overmatched his production....
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
If you can get 2 SB titles AND 26 more regular season wins AND 5 more postseason wins while not leading the NFL in turnovers for the entirety of his career, all for the bargain price of FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS less... yes, Eli's earnings have exceeded his production.
He will finish his career as the highest paid player in NFL history and has never been the best player in the league for any stretch of his career. How anyone can claim that Eli has not been overpaid, relative to his peers, over the balance of his career boggles my mind.
I have seen odd takes on this board.
This may take the cake.
It's hardly an odd take. It's just one that you disagree with because of your affection for Eli that supersedes your ability to view things logically.
So you’re tellig me.... that he has underproduced as a player with all the yards and TDs and SB rings because he has thrown a few too many INTs?
You’re right it’s not an odd take. It’s a moronic take. Every team in the NFL would make their QB the richest player in the history of it meant not one but TWO titles.
The only people who thinks he has underperformed his contract have been his constant detractors for his entire career. I rather support a player for what he has done and meant that shit on him for the dumbest of things.
I think you are 100% correct, could not agree more.
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
Under. I have to exclude the pats here
jimmy i would agree normally about win projections but a decent line and saquon may get the Giants to wins alone he is that good. not to mention if the line is decent odell will get open.
not that that changes my opinion of current day Eli. a game manager who should hang them up.
That doesn’t mean he’s underperformed. It means that NE and Pitt both got really good deals.
We aren’t arguing who’s the better value. The argument is has Eli lives up to his career contract and he has plus some.
the two examples of multiple time winning qbs you mentioned were paid less.
i agree he is not some big outlier and i agree he has not fleeced the team like a max nba contract for rasheed lewis. but it’s not as cut and dry as you are making it.
the two examples of multiple time winning qbs you mentioned were paid less.
i agree he is not some big outlier and i agree he has not fleeced the team like a max nba contract for rasheed lewis. but it’s not as cut and dry as you are making it.
Let’s put it this way...
Cleveland browns chose Mayfield first overall. In 15 years... he becomes a top 10 QB in yards and TDs. Throws a bunch of picks. Gives you some inconsistent games/years. But brings home 2 SB trophies and was the best player in the game.
How many Browns fans are saying... “ehhhhh, he didn’t live up to his career earnings!”
looking at it in aggregate is different than the current specific dilemma.
jimmy i would agree normally about win projections but a decent line and saquon may get the Giants to wins alone he is that good. not to mention if the line is decent odell will get open.
not that that changes my opinion of current day Eli. a game manager who should hang them up.
Wins...I took that into account. Keep in mind our entire team until this last game has been healthy for the most part which is unheard of. And let me know how many 2nd and 3rd string QBs we have played. Amongst others...
jimmy i would agree normally about win projections but a decent line and saquon may get the Giants to wins alone he is that good. not to mention if the line is decent odell will get open.
not that that changes my opinion of current day Eli. a game manager who should hang them up.
If they extended him that would be a startling amount of incompetence. I HAVE to believe they aren’t that stupid. Although the evidence isn’t in their favor.
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and Im' fine with it since 2020 is the draft to go get a QB. But on what planet will he or should he "take a discount"? I wouldn't if I was him, and neither would any of you.
Eli could play for free in 2019 and his career earnings would still exceed his career production relative to his peers and their earnings/production. In a salary cap league, that's a lot more relevant than whether fans with normal jobs would "take a discount."
And that's without considering the fact that many normal people do choose to work for less to stay with a company or in a town/city that they prefer (whether that's by way of passing on a new job, turning down a relocation opportunity, etc.). So "neither would any of you" is kind of a throwaway bullshit statement.
You do realize that any qb picked first overall in any draft ranging from 04 to whenever the rookie pay scale was adjusted or capped, was going to be the #1 earner of all time IF he lived up to his initial contract and hype, right? Don’t tell me about tom Brady, He’s a weirdo exception and he wasn’t picked first overall. Plus the pats org is 100% full of shit anyway. So fuck them too. Any qb not named Brady is maxing out. He’s a fucking robot.
So yeah let’s bring Eli back again. I love when the Giants ceiling is 7-9
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that his earnings have overmatched his production....
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
If you can get 2 SB titles AND 26 more regular season wins AND 5 more postseason wins while not leading the NFL in turnovers for the entirety of his career, all for the bargain price of FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS less... yes, Eli's earnings have exceeded his production.
He will finish his career as the highest paid player in NFL history and has never been the best player in the league for any stretch of his career. How anyone can claim that Eli has not been overpaid, relative to his peers, over the balance of his career boggles my mind.
It boggles your mind? When did you start following pro sports? Yesterday?
First overall pick when there was virtually no rookie cap. Super bowl mvp by age 27. Two time super bowl mvp and nyg legend by 30-31. And it boggles your mind? Why? How?
But we've heard the song and dance for years now. I half believe people here would've preferred to have Tony Romo over Eli. There used to be threads several times a year trying to make the argument that Romo was the superior QB.
I cringe when posters intimate that this is a recent thing to question Eli. It has basically gone on fairly consistently throughout his career.
But we've heard the song and dance for years now. I half believe people here would've preferred to have Tony Romo over Eli. There used to be threads several times a year trying to make the argument that Romo was the superior QB.
I cringe when posters intimate that this is a recent thing to question Eli. It has basically gone on fairly consistently throughout his career.
Spot on. The Romo fan club was strong
Don’t forget Houston too.
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To still post here makes me believe he is Eric’s or Gidies cousin. Everyone knows he is just a troll at this point.
ha, the standard dep troll accusation anytime he’s got nothing of substance to offer.as predictable as Eli throwing a bone headed pick
Compared to the standard Les post where he could post only something negative of Eli because he isn’t smart enough to talk about anything else?
100% troll at this point. Tell us again Eli beat no good teams this year or how Vince young was better than Eli.
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To still post here makes me believe he is Eric’s or Gidies cousin. Everyone knows he is just a troll at this point.
ha, the standard dep troll accusation anytime he’s got nothing of substance to offer.as predictable as Eli throwing a bone headed pick
Are we taking about the same Eli who’s only thrown 8 INTs in 13 games? Same as Tom Brady, and fewer than Mahomes, Goff, and about 15 other guys?
Almost have to admire the determination with which some of these babies invent excuses and refuse to acknowledge how well Eli is playing this season.
It must be so hard to see Eli play well and the Giants win, so you don’t get to say “I told you so” for a week and instead have to invent lame excuses.
Can he be upgraded? sure. Show me the upgrade first, though.
Some here just want to dump Eli at any cost, no matter whether there's a plan in place or not.
the Giants have to get a player that represents a better long term potential upside than Eli and/or a better value.
He's starting next year almost assuredly. I would hope they could work on terms like Peyton did with the Broncos.
I will say it is nice to see him playing better. Not nearly as 'great' as some have implied here but he is playing solid football. Believe it or not, for many of us critical of the Giants for being in this situation and critical of Eli play, its not personal animus towards him at all. In fact, I thought they should try to spare his winning record and protect him from the beatings he was taking not just physically but image wise earlier in the year.
Its in fact possible to have a few of these viewpoints at the same time-nice to see Eli has some game left to him we have not seen in a while, while recogizing he has limitations and because he is showing better recently still no reason to make long term plans with him given his age in particular.
I’d say that’s pretty damn good.
I do hope it continues though as a fan...
Eli is Eli and you will scratch your head at least once per game, but he made a few very nice throws Sunday. I think the only bad one was on the goal line that Shepard broke up.
I do hope it continues though as a fan...
I don’t think fans should look at these last few weeks other than by putting competent people around Eli... whoever replaces him will be in a good spot.
Barkley and OBJ are the horses. Give an OL that’s average and these two will lead to a lot of points no matter who the QB is.
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the last few weeks. But I don’t subscribe to view that we have a consistent winner at QB any longer.
I do hope it continues though as a fan...
I don’t think fans should look at these last few weeks other than by putting competent people around Eli... whoever replaces him will be in a good spot.
Barkley and OBJ are the horses. Give an OL that’s average and these two will lead to a lot of points no matter who the QB is.
Agree mostly. So who were these competent people that made the diff these past several weeks...Brown?
I certainly hope he can produce like this next year in a full schedule. It would be a best season by a mile for him as far as qb rating and stats. Not that I think much of that.......the Gilbride system while it worked put points up at the expense of high qb rating with the hero throws it emphasized.
Granted maybe this setup with another lineman added works well next year. The schedule has been soft though recently, dont want to hear about the Skins d as they had basically thrown the towel in early.
A lot to observe the next three weeks. Hope he keeps it up.
I don't see anyone saying to pass over a franchise prospect at QB if opportunity presents itself.
I do see a lot of dump Eli no matter what.
there is some decent percentage that thinks he should play another few seasons; not anything i have proof for but i get the sense of from reading enough material here. some won’t out admit it but I have my suspicions.
Who the fuck cares if Eli was or is overpaid by X amount of money all these years? Haven’t you guys gotten used to 100 million dollar contracts by now?
Lazy. Worthless. Garbage.
the real issue is the Giants ought to negotiate a better deal for next year because they could use those dollars elsewhere and in spite of his recent play he has not been worth this premium and should get into something better; they possess leverage now. that is absolutely worthwhile.
1)What motivation does Eli have to take a pay cut? Pay cuts are almost always completed in the form of a restructure and I don't think we should expend eli
2) The Players Association would likely try to block a straight pay cut as they certainly don't want that type of solution implemented.
1)What motivation does Eli have to take a pay cut? Pay cuts are almost always completed in the form of a restructure and I don't think we should expend eli
2) The Players Association would likely try to block a straight pay cut as they certainly don't want that type of solution implemented.
He does have a $5M roster bonus, so the Giants do have a little leverage. Basically he's set to earn $17M in "new" money ($11.5 base + $5 RB + $0.5 workout bonus) from the Giants in 2019. So if the Giants wanted to play hardball with him they could threaten to cut him if he doesn't take a paycut.
The question then becomes: what can Eli reasonably expect to get on the open market? If it's more than that $17M and he doesn't mind finishing his career elsewhere, he can (and would) certainly push back and refuse a pay cut. But if it's let's say $12M, then there's certainly room for a an agreement.
The Giants could also simply add a year at say $5M and fully guarantee his $5M roster bonus and part of his base salary to spread the cap hits. So essentially make it a 2 yr/$22M deal with $10M gtd. His 2019 cap hit would then be $11M + the remaining $6M currently owed ($17M total, $6M less than currently) with a 2020 cap hit of $11M.
i don’t think Giants will go down this road but it’s not outrageous for them to ask. article th other day in the ny post about this.
Four teams who are currently very poor defensively. On top of that, the added bonus of playing a few of those teams with QBs who were more than gracious with their turnovers that created great scoring opportunities.
Alas, at the end of the day, this is going to lead to exactly what's going on here - that Eli still has the goods for this team to make a run. And the order will be issued once again from our fine friends at Jints Central: do what it takes for Eli.
Welcome to the definition of insanity...
I’d say that’s pretty damn good.
I'd say it's a pretty damn small sample size.
you really need to get some help.....
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In comment 14213238 dep026 said:
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that his earnings have overmatched his production....
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
If you can get 2 SB titles AND 26 more regular season wins AND 5 more postseason wins while not leading the NFL in turnovers for the entirety of his career, all for the bargain price of FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS less... yes, Eli's earnings have exceeded his production.
He will finish his career as the highest paid player in NFL history and has never been the best player in the league for any stretch of his career. How anyone can claim that Eli has not been overpaid, relative to his peers, over the balance of his career boggles my mind.
It boggles your mind? When did you start following pro sports? Yesterday?
First overall pick when there was virtually no rookie cap. Super bowl mvp by age 27. Two time super bowl mvp and nyg legend by 30-31. And it boggles your mind? Why? How?
It's a salary cap league. The best teams know how to maximize value in their roster construction. Paying a QB who at best was borderline top 10 in the league more money than any other player has ever earned is a poor value proposition.
Maybe "boggles my mind" was the wrong term, but I figured it was kinder than "disappoints me."
As for how long I've followed pro sports, I'll put my background up against almost anyone here, save for a few obvious exceptions. You're not one of them.
Today's argument is about who the QB is going to be during the transition. Tough it out with a rookie? Will there be a rookie to be had this year? Do you try a retread vet? is it likely any of them will be any better than Eli?
It's all well and good to say get a QB to build around, but what if one isn't available to do so? Who is the QB during the interim until one is available? Eli certainly is in the mix for that discussion.
I think they have to pay him for 2019 and take it from there.
they cut simms in 94 and keeping him around would not have led to a fundamentally different outcome anyway, maybe a better 94 and 95 (they were not getting past the 9ers and Boys of that era) but do they get to a Kerry Collins by 98 if they start the Brown experiment later? Same type of scenarios apply here.
Think long term and they will be well served. And perhaps that is playing him next year and if he surprises people he carries on and there really is a few seasons left. Im open minded enough to that outcome; as unlikely as I see that as being reality; I dont see how a team that is ascending on offense should be held back by a piece that will clearly descend soon (and probably already has) and will have to take time to create a window for the replacement to get up to speed. the giants have to think about maximizing Barkley and Beckham, and their o line is getting better and can continue to; they have a tough order in front of them with Manning in his twilight and getting the right prospect in here and then going through at least a year of growing pains.
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Would translate to 32 TDs and 7 INTs.
I’d say that’s pretty damn good.
I'd say it's a pretty damn small sample size.
1/3 of the season?
Shit you weren’t around blasting people after a game... we’re you?
Today's argument is about who the QB is going to be during the transition. Tough it out with a rookie? Will there be a rookie to be had this year? Do you try a retread vet? is it likely any of them will be any better than Eli?
It's all well and good to say get a QB to build around, but what if one isn't available to do so? Who is the QB during the interim until one is available? Eli certainly is in the mix for that discussion.
I would frame the existing circumstances this way instead - can we win a SB with Eli? A simple, straight-forward question.
If the answer is yes, by yes I would say a 50% or > chance, then the organization should go all in.
If no, which is where I am, you draft a QB, or go with Lauletta, and deal with the growing pains right away. Right into the deep end of the pool. What's the point of another sentimental Eli tour?
i do think they have some fear of moving to a rookie with a peak saquon and odell and will try to ride manning as long as possible. of course what do i really know but it comes across that way.
I was just thinking about this. I personally don't like to include Brady in these because he has a super model wife that makes more than Tom while technically being retired. Still, Brady gives his team a discount and regardless of circumstance, it does help his team. I don't think any other QB is willing to do this though. Just another advantage that the Patriots currently have over other teams.
Roethlisberger, however, signed his latest contract extension about the same time as Eli. Ben's total cap for that extension is $105,795,000 with $54,750,000 guaranteed. Eli's total cap for the same extension at roughly the same time is $103,750,000 with $58,000,000 guaranteed. I think it's far more relevant to look at the latest contract and not the total contract. Eli had about an $11 million to $12 million head start before one of them extended by simply being drafted higher than Ben.
That being the case and looking at their latest extension, Ben's cap is higher but his guarantees are lower. I think your kind of splitting hairs there. It's certainly not significantly less than Eli.
I'm in the camp that it is time to search for a new QB, but we're not desperate. If one falls into our lap, rush to the podium or make a trade to get there. But don't dump Eli just to pick/play a mediocre or worse QB just for the hell of it. You're not getting to a SB that way, either. Be patient. If a good QB isn't attainable this year, work on other parts of the team that we can and go with Eli another year. Rinse and repeat next year or until we get desperate.
that’s not all due to their individual talents, more that pitt is better but ben during this contract has also probably outplayed manning.
of course the Giants did not sign manning to not make playoff appearances but they signed him in 2015 off of four non playoff years. so some of it is self inflicted......and there is no reason for them not to reconsider this next contract season.
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In comment 14214335 dep026 said:
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Would translate to 32 TDs and 7 INTs.
I’d say that’s pretty damn good.
I'd say it's a pretty damn small sample size.
1/3 of the season?
Shit you weren’t around blasting people after a game... we’re you?
Yes, 1/3 of a season is a small sample size. I know you loathe statistics in general, but don't be obtuse.
And was I blasting people after one game because of one game? Was that one game consistent with a larger sample size or no? I'm honestly asking because I don't remember doing that, but I could definitely be wrong.