Average QBR of 108, 10 TDs, and 2 Ints. I'll take that. Is he perfect? No. But he never was. He'll always make that "WTF throw." But he'll alo make throws like the one to coleman, a check out of plays to put the team in a better position, etc.. With just a mediocre line, Eli can still make plays.
I fully understand Omameh is a ghastly bad football player, and most second graders would be an upgrade, but Brown has been very bad in the last few games.
The 9ers and Bucs are one thing. The Eagles, Bears and Skins are another. If he's more the guy we've seen the last 3 weeks, he's not part of the future as UFA.
I fully understand Omameh is a ghastly bad football player, and most second graders would be an upgrade, but Brown has been very bad in the last few games.
The 9ers and Bucs are one thing. The Eagles, Bears and Skins are another. If he's more the guy we've seen the last 3 weeks, he's not part of the future as UFA.
I'm not saying Brown is an all star. And while he has been at best okay, the line has gone from tragedy to slightly above mediocre. I'm more pointing out that with a simply okay line, Eli can perform at a high level.
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And I said it was because they could never field an OL that would support him in time for his contract to expire. I'm so very very happy that it looks like Jamon Brown may have proven me wrong. I'm perfectly happy to have Eli start for this team in 2019. But honestly, I would really like to see him take a team friendly discount. Put another piece on that OL and one or two ER's on defense and look out.
Think Abrams could work something out in deferred salary with ELI if he wants another shot at the playoffs next season. Get a couple of stud FA to shore up that OL.
That's the dream.
I said it too, for the same reasons.
Again, he's not unique in this regard, but over the course of his career, Eli has been least effective when faced with consistent A-gap pressure... this is going back to 2008 or so when Philly would pound him with straight A-gap and cross-axe blitzes (a Jim Johnson hallmark).
In recent years, it's been less about designed A-gap blitzes and more simple E-T/T-E line stunts where our guards (you name 'em... Jerry, Omameh, Greco, Fluker) get beat because they struggled to pass off the twist. Part of that is attributable to tackles, but the result was usually the inside rusher getting penetration in Eli's face and consequently disrupting the play.
Brown is a big body, occupies a lot of space, and is technically proficient. He's playing at an above-average professional level (in other words, I believe he would start over more than half of the offensive guards in the league) and has thus stabilized the right side of the line from center out. Most importantly, he's substantially negated a relatively basic tactic defenses have employed effectively against us for years, which also happens to be one of Eli's biggest bugaboos. So, significant improvement in that particular area has resulted in an outsize improvement in the play of our quarterback.
I agree
I agree with you, especially about Eli being done here and how it has turned around. There is not a snowball's chance in hell he takes less money though.
Eli can still play though, it should be obvious to anyone. I would love to see him lead the team into the playoffs one more time.
Eli shouldn't take or be asked to take a pay cut. He's paid like an average starter which is what he is. Further, we have enough money ($30+m) to get whatever FA we want.
Pretty ironic considering you're a dupe troll yourself.
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And I said it was because they could never field an OL that would support him in time for his contract to expire. I'm so very very happy that it looks like Jamon Brown may have proven me wrong. I'm perfectly happy to have Eli start for this team in 2019. But honestly, I would really like to see him take a team friendly discount. Put another piece on that OL and one or two ER's on defense and look out.
Eli shouldn't take or be asked to take a pay cut. He's paid like an average starter which is what he is. Further, we have enough money ($30+m) to get whatever FA we want.
Eli is on pace to be the highest paid player in NFL history, including his own QB contemporaries - more than a few of which have had superior career production than he has had. He might be paid like an average starter in a snapshot right now, but on balance, he has been very well compensated - it would be very easy to justify asking him to take a pay cut (as Diver proposed last week - waive his 2019 roster and workout bonuses in exchange for fully guaranteeing his 2019 salary).
But it's moot - the Mannings do not take pay cuts. Ever.
I don't know what christian is looking at, but it's different OL play than I'm seeing. Going to the gravamen of regulator's post, re. Jamon Brown's play, what exacerbates Eli's weakness and vulnerability in facing the rush up the middle, is his lack of quickness, and twitch, which he has never had--and that is only going to stay as bad or get worse. His effort yesterday to spin away from a rush up the middle was, unfortunately, comical, as one of the rushers closed in, scraped his jersey with his hand, Eli spun trying to do a 360 and fell to earth.
Eli could play for free in 2019 and his career earnings would still exceed his career production relative to his peers and their earnings/production. In a salary cap league, that's a lot more relevant than whether fans with normal jobs would "take a discount."
And that's without considering the fact that many normal people do choose to work for less to stay with a company or in a town/city that they prefer (whether that's by way of passing on a new job, turning down a relocation opportunity, etc.). So "neither would any of you" is kind of a throwaway bullshit statement.
and it’s extremely flawed in the case of manning or in sports in general. the giants should give him no choice and he would have none other than to test the market.
it won’t happen but GD is spot on. Giants should force a negotiation down or draft a replacement and sign a replacement level player to start. But they are too scared and won’t do it.
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and Im' fine with it since 2020 is the draft to go get a QB. But on what planet will he or should he "take a discount"? I wouldn't if I was him, and neither would any of you.
Eli could play for free in 2019 and his career earnings would still exceed his career production relative to his peers and their earnings/production. In a salary cap league, that's a lot more relevant than whether fans with normal jobs would "take a discount."
And that's without considering the fact that many normal people do choose to work for less to stay with a company or in a town/city that they prefer (whether that's by way of passing on a new job, turning down a relocation opportunity, etc.). So "neither would any of you" is kind of a throwaway bullshit statement.
So is counting another persons money. Its also about precedent and respect. The players association won't like it if one of the highest paid players just takes a huge paycut, there's other factors involved here other than just you counting Eli's bank account.
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and Im' fine with it since 2020 is the draft to go get a QB. But on what planet will he or should he "take a discount"? I wouldn't if I was him, and neither would any of you.
Eli could play for free in 2019 and his career earnings would still exceed his career production relative to his peers and their earnings/production. In a salary cap league, that's a lot more relevant than whether fans with normal jobs would "take a discount."
And that's without considering the fact that many normal people do choose to work for less to stay with a company or in a town/city that they prefer (whether that's by way of passing on a new job, turning down a relocation opportunity, etc.). So "neither would any of you" is kind of a throwaway bullshit statement.
So you're blaming Eli for trying to make as much money as he can? This is one of the oddest takes ever.
Considering he plays in era where contracts and salary caps go up every year, he has played 15 years, and plays a premium position.... it shouldnt really be a shock should it? I mean in 10 years, a dozen players will surpass him and no one will even remember.
leverage works both ways though and all is fair. Giants should absolutely challenge eli’s salary for next year.
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
When he signed his first re-up, I believe he already won his first Championship and game MVP, and his second re-up he had done it again. Tack on longevity, availability, durability, clutch in biggest games, ability to navigate New York and the media......yeah, I don’t think this organization is worrying about the money paid Eli.
14 yrs later, Baker Mayfield 33m or so over 4 yrs. I’m sure if Baker can win one SB per contract, the Browns will make him a very wealthy man, and be glad to pay.
Can someone point to a specific instance where the money paid our QB has prevented us from signing or trading for someone we wanted? I can’t recall one, and we have spent as much as anyone in FA over the years.
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
If you can get 2 SB titles AND 26 more regular season wins AND 5 more postseason wins while not leading the NFL in turnovers for the entirety of his career, all for the bargain price of FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS less... yes, Eli's earnings have exceeded his production.
He will finish his career as the highest paid player in NFL history and has never been the best player in the league for any stretch of his career. How anyone can claim that Eli has not been overpaid, relative to his peers, over the balance of his career boggles my mind.
Or are you saying "IF, AND ONLY IF" the Giants decide to keep Eli then you hope it would be under a team-friendly deal?
Eli has been overpaid in his most recent contract, that still doesn't mean he should take a pay cut. He earned that contract and the Giants didn't have to agree to it. But they did and now here we are. Its a pointless thing to argue about.
Or are you saying "IF, AND ONLY IF" the Giants decide to keep Eli then you hope it would be under a team-friendly deal?
No, I'd eat it and let him walk after 2019. I honestly don't know what the alternative is if we don't take a QB high, so rather than finding someone off the scrap heap that will still be expensive relative to their ability, why not just keep things as is and then move on.
I've got an open mind heading into 2019, mostly because I really don't know what our options are.
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that his earnings have overmatched his production....
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
If you can get 2 SB titles AND 26 more regular season wins AND 5 more postseason wins while not leading the NFL in turnovers for the entirety of his career, all for the bargain price of FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS less... yes, Eli's earnings have exceeded his production.
He will finish his career as the highest paid player in NFL history and has never been the best player in the league for any stretch of his career. How anyone can claim that Eli has not been overpaid, relative to his peers, over the balance of his career boggles my mind.
I have seen odd takes on this board.
This may take the cake.
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and continuing to kick the can down the road to restructuring the position?
Or are you saying "IF, AND ONLY IF" the Giants decide to keep Eli then you hope it would be under a team-friendly deal?
No, I'd eat it and let him walk after 2019. I honestly don't know what the alternative is if we don't take a QB high, so rather than finding someone off the scrap heap that will still be expensive relative to their ability, why not just keep things as is and then move on.
I've got an open mind heading into 2019, mostly because I really don't know what our options are.
Yeah, I don't know what our options either but Giants should have at least some as QB do become available each season.
I just really feel we have to cut this Eli-cord in order to get better (albeit maybe not in 2019) or risk languishing in bad/mediocrity land much longer...
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In comment 14212509 bradshaw44 said:
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And I said it was because they could never field an OL that would support him in time for his contract to expire. I'm so very very happy that it looks like Jamon Brown may have proven me wrong. I'm perfectly happy to have Eli start for this team in 2019. But honestly, I would really like to see him take a team friendly discount. Put another piece on that OL and one or two ER's on defense and look out.
Eli shouldn't take or be asked to take a pay cut. He's paid like an average starter which is what he is. Further, we have enough money ($30+m) to get whatever FA we want.
Eli is on pace to be the highest paid player in NFL history, including his own QB contemporaries - more than a few of which have had superior career production than he has had. He might be paid like an average starter in a snapshot right now, but on balance, he has been very well compensated - it would be very easy to justify asking him to take a pay cut (as Diver proposed last week - waive his 2019 roster and workout bonuses in exchange for fully guaranteeing his 2019 salary).
But it's moot - the Mannings do not take pay cuts. Ever.
I thought Peyton took a pay cut his last season in Denver.
and there will never be a suitable replacement to some. I get one more year given we are stuck with lauletta and I would rather cut the cord as well.
But witness how enamored many are with our winning against dregs and backups and no surprise we will find the cries for him to come back and be extended by many here.......
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In comment 14213238 dep026 said:
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that his earnings have overmatched his production....
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
If you can get 2 SB titles AND 26 more regular season wins AND 5 more postseason wins while not leading the NFL in turnovers for the entirety of his career, all for the bargain price of FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS less... yes, Eli's earnings have exceeded his production.
He will finish his career as the highest paid player in NFL history and has never been the best player in the league for any stretch of his career. How anyone can claim that Eli has not been overpaid, relative to his peers, over the balance of his career boggles my mind.
I have seen odd takes on this board.
This may take the cake.
It's hardly an odd take. It's just one that you disagree with because of your affection for Eli that supersedes your ability to view things logically.
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In comment 14212857 BillT said:
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In comment 14212509 bradshaw44 said:
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And I said it was because they could never field an OL that would support him in time for his contract to expire. I'm so very very happy that it looks like Jamon Brown may have proven me wrong. I'm perfectly happy to have Eli start for this team in 2019. But honestly, I would really like to see him take a team friendly discount. Put another piece on that OL and one or two ER's on defense and look out.
Eli shouldn't take or be asked to take a pay cut. He's paid like an average starter which is what he is. Further, we have enough money ($30+m) to get whatever FA we want.
Eli is on pace to be the highest paid player in NFL history, including his own QB contemporaries - more than a few of which have had superior career production than he has had. He might be paid like an average starter in a snapshot right now, but on balance, he has been very well compensated - it would be very easy to justify asking him to take a pay cut (as Diver proposed last week - waive his 2019 roster and workout bonuses in exchange for fully guaranteeing his 2019 salary).
But it's moot - the Mannings do not take pay cuts. Ever.
I thought Peyton took a pay cut his last season in Denver.
You're right, he did (actually I think it was the season before his last, but your point is valid anyway). Technically the amount by which his salary was reduced was converted to incentives that he had a chance to recoup, but he didn't end up earning it, so it wound up being a pay cut. So there's hope!
I think that's a very fair reasoning of the situation at hand. The Giants have zero 'need' for Eli next year. None. Many fans expect him to be gone anyway, so there won't be backlash if they do let him go. This means Mara doesn't have any PR image matters to worry about. I really think this is the position they should take with Eli. And if he doesn't accept it, let him go. Simple as that.
Wouldn't you only do so if we need him?
Wouldn't you only do so if we need him?
Because the team wouldn't mind having a winning season and possibly making some noise in the playoffs next year. But even if they do it's not a glimpse of the future, it's one last hurrah before the next generation. And if we need to start that one season early by letting Eli walk, then do so. It's basically just telling Eli, we will give you one last shot at the title, but it will be on our terms. And if he doesn't want to then that's on him. Either way you slice it, 2020 is the next generation. Win, lose or draw in 2019.
At some point our luck of playing backup QBs will end...sadly
we are going through mirage we saw in 94 and 13 with current run.
Giants may even be an 8-8 or 9-7 team with eli next year but no future in him.
At some point our luck of playing backup QBs will end...sadly
Odd's are you are correct about winning with Eli. But the odds of us winning anything with a stop gap are probably worse. And if Eli does produce another shit season then we use the draft position to make a move for one of the 2020 QB's. Basically 2019 is a year of limbo with or without Eli so why not take a shot if he's willing to take a cut?
I'm sure we all hope that our wait for the next franchise QB isn't a long one. But being lucky enough to go from Montana to Young, Favre to Rogers, or even Peyton to Luck is highly unlikely.