Average QBR of 108, 10 TDs, and 2 Ints. I'll take that. Is he perfect? No. But he never was. He'll always make that "WTF throw." But he'll alo make throws like the one to coleman, a check out of plays to put the team in a better position, etc.. With just a mediocre line, Eli can still make plays.
we are going through mirage we saw in 94 and 13 with current run.
Giants may even be an 8-8 or 9-7 team with eli next year but no future in him.
Yea everyone needs to understand, next year if Eli is on this team and starting, it isn't about the future. It's the end of the era. Even if Eli puts together one last magical run and we go 19-0 there is NO chance we extend him. It might get him a hefty payday from a desperate team that buys into the Super Bowl hype, but it won't be the Giants.
The NYG may not like any QBs in the 2019 draft or be able to draft the one(s) they do like. But keeping Eli around longer is surely not going to reap us any rewards...
Basically 2019 is a year of limbo with or without Eli so why not take a shot if he's willing to take a cut?
Understood the view. Its just not mine. Imv, we have basically zero shot of doing anything but middling around 4-6 wins with some highs and lots of lows...
The NYG may not like any QBs in the 2019 draft or be able to draft the one(s) they do like. But keeping Eli around longer is surely not going to reap us any rewards...
Which may be true. But what would you have them do? Start Tanney next year to ensure we get a good pick? That's the conundrum. The Giants can't openly say they are tanking 2019 so fans should just pack it in and come back in 2020. That's why I refer to it as limbo. We are kind of just stuck in a holding pattern at this point. Maybe if a team with no QB need is sitting their when Herbert, Grier or Lock (I am not saying these will be the guys NYG should be interested in, just using the names out there right now) are sitting there this year and they call and make us a proposition DG will take it. But the possibility of that happening is probably about as good as us winning the SB next year.
It's a shitty situation anyway you look at it.
Not a pleasant thought but we may have to consider a view that we draft a QB early in 2019 because he "passes" enough tests. And ultimately see even better prospects in 2020 and make yet another QB move. I know we have other needs, but imv until we get that right guy under center, its all moot...
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In comment 14213259 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14213238 dep026 said:
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that his earnings have overmatched his production....
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
If you can get 2 SB titles AND 26 more regular season wins AND 5 more postseason wins while not leading the NFL in turnovers for the entirety of his career, all for the bargain price of FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS less... yes, Eli's earnings have exceeded his production.
He will finish his career as the highest paid player in NFL history and has never been the best player in the league for any stretch of his career. How anyone can claim that Eli has not been overpaid, relative to his peers, over the balance of his career boggles my mind.
I have seen odd takes on this board.
This may take the cake.
It's hardly an odd take. It's just one that you disagree with because of your affection for Eli that supersedes your ability to view things logically.
So you’re tellig me.... that he has underproduced as a player with all the yards and TDs and SB rings because he has thrown a few too many INTs?
You’re right it’s not an odd take. It’s a moronic take. Every team in the NFL would make their QB the richest player in the history of it meant not one but TWO titles.
The only people who thinks he has underperformed his contract have been his constant detractors for his entire career. I rather support a player for what he has done and meant that shit on him for the dumbest of things.
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In comment 14213313 dep026 said:
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In comment 14213259 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14213238 dep026 said:
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that his earnings have overmatched his production....
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
If you can get 2 SB titles AND 26 more regular season wins AND 5 more postseason wins while not leading the NFL in turnovers for the entirety of his career, all for the bargain price of FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS less... yes, Eli's earnings have exceeded his production.
He will finish his career as the highest paid player in NFL history and has never been the best player in the league for any stretch of his career. How anyone can claim that Eli has not been overpaid, relative to his peers, over the balance of his career boggles my mind.
I have seen odd takes on this board.
This may take the cake.
It's hardly an odd take. It's just one that you disagree with because of your affection for Eli that supersedes your ability to view things logically.
So you’re tellig me.... that he has underproduced as a player with all the yards and TDs and SB rings because he has thrown a few too many INTs?
You’re right it’s not an odd take. It’s a moronic take. Every team in the NFL would make their QB the richest player in the history of it meant not one but TWO titles.
The only people who thinks he has underperformed his contract have been his constant detractors for his entire career. I rather support a player for what he has done and meant that shit on him for the dumbest of things.
I think you are 100% correct, could not agree more.
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
Under. I have to exclude the pats here
jimmy i would agree normally about win projections but a decent line and saquon may get the Giants to wins alone he is that good. not to mention if the line is decent odell will get open.
not that that changes my opinion of current day Eli. a game manager who should hang them up.
That doesn’t mean he’s underperformed. It means that NE and Pitt both got really good deals.
We aren’t arguing who’s the better value. The argument is has Eli lives up to his career contract and he has plus some.
the two examples of multiple time winning qbs you mentioned were paid less.
i agree he is not some big outlier and i agree he has not fleeced the team like a max nba contract for rasheed lewis. but it’s not as cut and dry as you are making it.
the two examples of multiple time winning qbs you mentioned were paid less.
i agree he is not some big outlier and i agree he has not fleeced the team like a max nba contract for rasheed lewis. but it’s not as cut and dry as you are making it.
Let’s put it this way...
Cleveland browns chose Mayfield first overall. In 15 years... he becomes a top 10 QB in yards and TDs. Throws a bunch of picks. Gives you some inconsistent games/years. But brings home 2 SB trophies and was the best player in the game.
How many Browns fans are saying... “ehhhhh, he didn’t live up to his career earnings!”
looking at it in aggregate is different than the current specific dilemma.
jimmy i would agree normally about win projections but a decent line and saquon may get the Giants to wins alone he is that good. not to mention if the line is decent odell will get open.
not that that changes my opinion of current day Eli. a game manager who should hang them up.
Wins...I took that into account. Keep in mind our entire team until this last game has been healthy for the most part which is unheard of. And let me know how many 2nd and 3rd string QBs we have played. Amongst others...
jimmy i would agree normally about win projections but a decent line and saquon may get the Giants to wins alone he is that good. not to mention if the line is decent odell will get open.
not that that changes my opinion of current day Eli. a game manager who should hang them up.
If they extended him that would be a startling amount of incompetence. I HAVE to believe they aren’t that stupid. Although the evidence isn’t in their favor.
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and Im' fine with it since 2020 is the draft to go get a QB. But on what planet will he or should he "take a discount"? I wouldn't if I was him, and neither would any of you.
Eli could play for free in 2019 and his career earnings would still exceed his career production relative to his peers and their earnings/production. In a salary cap league, that's a lot more relevant than whether fans with normal jobs would "take a discount."
And that's without considering the fact that many normal people do choose to work for less to stay with a company or in a town/city that they prefer (whether that's by way of passing on a new job, turning down a relocation opportunity, etc.). So "neither would any of you" is kind of a throwaway bullshit statement.
You do realize that any qb picked first overall in any draft ranging from 04 to whenever the rookie pay scale was adjusted or capped, was going to be the #1 earner of all time IF he lived up to his initial contract and hype, right? Don’t tell me about tom Brady, He’s a weirdo exception and he wasn’t picked first overall. Plus the pats org is 100% full of shit anyway. So fuck them too. Any qb not named Brady is maxing out. He’s a fucking robot.
So yeah let’s bring Eli back again. I love when the Giants ceiling is 7-9
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that his earnings have overmatched his production....
Oh really? How many teams will sign up for giving a guy 250 million dollars for 15 years if it means a guarantee 2 SB titles.
Ill set the over/under at 31.5 and Ill take the over.
If you can get 2 SB titles AND 26 more regular season wins AND 5 more postseason wins while not leading the NFL in turnovers for the entirety of his career, all for the bargain price of FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS less... yes, Eli's earnings have exceeded his production.
He will finish his career as the highest paid player in NFL history and has never been the best player in the league for any stretch of his career. How anyone can claim that Eli has not been overpaid, relative to his peers, over the balance of his career boggles my mind.
It boggles your mind? When did you start following pro sports? Yesterday?
First overall pick when there was virtually no rookie cap. Super bowl mvp by age 27. Two time super bowl mvp and nyg legend by 30-31. And it boggles your mind? Why? How?
But we've heard the song and dance for years now. I half believe people here would've preferred to have Tony Romo over Eli. There used to be threads several times a year trying to make the argument that Romo was the superior QB.
I cringe when posters intimate that this is a recent thing to question Eli. It has basically gone on fairly consistently throughout his career.
But we've heard the song and dance for years now. I half believe people here would've preferred to have Tony Romo over Eli. There used to be threads several times a year trying to make the argument that Romo was the superior QB.
I cringe when posters intimate that this is a recent thing to question Eli. It has basically gone on fairly consistently throughout his career.
Spot on. The Romo fan club was strong
Don’t forget Houston too.
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To still post here makes me believe he is Eric’s or Gidies cousin. Everyone knows he is just a troll at this point.
ha, the standard dep troll accusation anytime he’s got nothing of substance to offer.as predictable as Eli throwing a bone headed pick
Compared to the standard Les post where he could post only something negative of Eli because he isn’t smart enough to talk about anything else?
100% troll at this point. Tell us again Eli beat no good teams this year or how Vince young was better than Eli.
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To still post here makes me believe he is Eric’s or Gidies cousin. Everyone knows he is just a troll at this point.
ha, the standard dep troll accusation anytime he’s got nothing of substance to offer.as predictable as Eli throwing a bone headed pick
Are we taking about the same Eli who’s only thrown 8 INTs in 13 games? Same as Tom Brady, and fewer than Mahomes, Goff, and about 15 other guys?
Almost have to admire the determination with which some of these babies invent excuses and refuse to acknowledge how well Eli is playing this season.
It must be so hard to see Eli play well and the Giants win, so you don’t get to say “I told you so” for a week and instead have to invent lame excuses.
Can he be upgraded? sure. Show me the upgrade first, though.
Some here just want to dump Eli at any cost, no matter whether there's a plan in place or not.
the Giants have to get a player that represents a better long term potential upside than Eli and/or a better value.
He's starting next year almost assuredly. I would hope they could work on terms like Peyton did with the Broncos.
I will say it is nice to see him playing better. Not nearly as 'great' as some have implied here but he is playing solid football. Believe it or not, for many of us critical of the Giants for being in this situation and critical of Eli play, its not personal animus towards him at all. In fact, I thought they should try to spare his winning record and protect him from the beatings he was taking not just physically but image wise earlier in the year.
Its in fact possible to have a few of these viewpoints at the same time-nice to see Eli has some game left to him we have not seen in a while, while recogizing he has limitations and because he is showing better recently still no reason to make long term plans with him given his age in particular.
I’d say that’s pretty damn good.
I do hope it continues though as a fan...
Eli is Eli and you will scratch your head at least once per game, but he made a few very nice throws Sunday. I think the only bad one was on the goal line that Shepard broke up.
I do hope it continues though as a fan...
I don’t think fans should look at these last few weeks other than by putting competent people around Eli... whoever replaces him will be in a good spot.
Barkley and OBJ are the horses. Give an OL that’s average and these two will lead to a lot of points no matter who the QB is.
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the last few weeks. But I don’t subscribe to view that we have a consistent winner at QB any longer.
I do hope it continues though as a fan...
I don’t think fans should look at these last few weeks other than by putting competent people around Eli... whoever replaces him will be in a good spot.
Barkley and OBJ are the horses. Give an OL that’s average and these two will lead to a lot of points no matter who the QB is.
Agree mostly. So who were these competent people that made the diff these past several weeks...Brown?
I certainly hope he can produce like this next year in a full schedule. It would be a best season by a mile for him as far as qb rating and stats. Not that I think much of that.......the Gilbride system while it worked put points up at the expense of high qb rating with the hero throws it emphasized.
Granted maybe this setup with another lineman added works well next year. The schedule has been soft though recently, dont want to hear about the Skins d as they had basically thrown the towel in early.
A lot to observe the next three weeks. Hope he keeps it up.
I don't see anyone saying to pass over a franchise prospect at QB if opportunity presents itself.
I do see a lot of dump Eli no matter what.
there is some decent percentage that thinks he should play another few seasons; not anything i have proof for but i get the sense of from reading enough material here. some won’t out admit it but I have my suspicions.
Who the fuck cares if Eli was or is overpaid by X amount of money all these years? Haven’t you guys gotten used to 100 million dollar contracts by now?
Lazy. Worthless. Garbage.
the real issue is the Giants ought to negotiate a better deal for next year because they could use those dollars elsewhere and in spite of his recent play he has not been worth this premium and should get into something better; they possess leverage now. that is absolutely worthwhile.
1)What motivation does Eli have to take a pay cut? Pay cuts are almost always completed in the form of a restructure and I don't think we should expend eli
2) The Players Association would likely try to block a straight pay cut as they certainly don't want that type of solution implemented.
1)What motivation does Eli have to take a pay cut? Pay cuts are almost always completed in the form of a restructure and I don't think we should expend eli
2) The Players Association would likely try to block a straight pay cut as they certainly don't want that type of solution implemented.
He does have a $5M roster bonus, so the Giants do have a little leverage. Basically he's set to earn $17M in "new" money ($11.5 base + $5 RB + $0.5 workout bonus) from the Giants in 2019. So if the Giants wanted to play hardball with him they could threaten to cut him if he doesn't take a paycut.
The question then becomes: what can Eli reasonably expect to get on the open market? If it's more than that $17M and he doesn't mind finishing his career elsewhere, he can (and would) certainly push back and refuse a pay cut. But if it's let's say $12M, then there's certainly room for a an agreement.
The Giants could also simply add a year at say $5M and fully guarantee his $5M roster bonus and part of his base salary to spread the cap hits. So essentially make it a 2 yr/$22M deal with $10M gtd. His 2019 cap hit would then be $11M + the remaining $6M currently owed ($17M total, $6M less than currently) with a 2020 cap hit of $11M.
i don’t think Giants will go down this road but it’s not outrageous for them to ask. article th other day in the ny post about this.
Four teams who are currently very poor defensively. On top of that, the added bonus of playing a few of those teams with QBs who were more than gracious with their turnovers that created great scoring opportunities.
Alas, at the end of the day, this is going to lead to exactly what's going on here - that Eli still has the goods for this team to make a run. And the order will be issued once again from our fine friends at Jints Central: do what it takes for Eli.
Welcome to the definition of insanity...
I’d say that’s pretty damn good.
I'd say it's a pretty damn small sample size.