Sherman
✔
@Joelsherman1
Told that Van Wagenen has multiple scenarios working to try to land Realmuto from #Marlins and the 1 involving #Yankees is not among the strongest.
Ken_Rosenthal
#Mets discussing multiple two- and three-team scenarios involving Realmuto and others, sources say. Team continues to place premium on their SP; would move Syndergaard only for big return. Tyson Ross signed today for $5.75M. Syndergaard will not cost much more in 2019.
probably a lot of scenarios and the Yankees wont make the best offer. I like what BVW is doing, get as many teams interested as possible and see what happens.
Anthony DiComo
✔
@AnthonyDiComo
The Mets have indeed discussed Realmuto scenarios including, but not limited to, a three-team deal that would send Noah Syndergaard to the Yankees. Yet I'd urge you to recall Brodie Van Wagenen's words from earlier today:
"We're not going to create a hole by filling another."
I don't get what's so complicated about this. Realmuto is going to cost more than Grandal if you extend him.
Keeps salary manageable for two years and when you have to extend him Cespedes and Wright are off the books. Either way... No thanks.
If you don't extend him now they're paying even bigger in 2 years or losing him for nothing. But either way the salary is secondary, now way should they give up a more valuable player with more control for Realmuto. Trading Syndergaard for Realmuto would be insanity.
is if we somehow had a simultaneous trade in place for Kluber. And the Yankees arent getting Thor for Florial and some spare parts. lol. If you can get Torres maybe Rosario get packaged to Cleveland or something.
Either way gross. And I already see how this thread is going to go. Thor can be had for nothing. Yankees players are untouchable.. Yada yada.
probably as much or more than any other player on our team. He just rightfully wants to be paid fair market value and he's only going to get that if he waits to free agency. I don't blame him one bit. Mets should offer him a fat nice deal next year.
Is about the end for me. Sorry, but that's the breaking point. They won't get an adequate return for him and watching him pitch for the Yankees for the next half decade or more is of zero interest to me.
Tim Healey
✔
@timbhealey
Mets & Yankees have talked about versions of a three-way deal involving Marlins that would send Realmuto to the Mets & Syndergaard to the Yankees, sources confirm.
A deal is not close, and frankly seems pretty unlikely.
But Brodie Van Wagenen is clearly willing to be creative.
Max Wildstein
✔
@MaxWildstein
Source: Prospects being floated in a possible three-team trade involving #Mets, #Marlins by #Yankees are Clint Frazier, Jonathan Loaisiga, Mike King, Chance Adams, and Sonny Gray. It is still pretty early in process from vibe that Im getting. Theres smoke, tho.
@MaxWildstein
30m30 minutes ago
More
Also have heard that the #Mets have asked #Yankees about Miguel Andujar, who NYYs been unwilling to discuss in trade talks. We will see if this 3-team trade rumor becomes a thing in end.
Matt Ehalt
✔
@MattEhalt
Mets and league sources have said Miami wants a haul that includes major-league talent and top prospects. And there's though they don't want to deal inside the division. It's not going to be cheap.
put on two years of control of a catcher coming off a career year. And the Yankees make guys like Andujar ,who cant field for shit, "untouchable". Meanwhile here we are with three years of an ace who has the lowest FIP in ALL OF BASEBALL since he entered the league who we are chalking up for peanuts. Im going to bed. lol. Hopefully this nightmare will be over when I awake.
Can suck my balls for what they are asking for Realmuto. Yes, I've been drinking tonight. But FUCK the Marlins. Fuck them hard.
I will tell you this, if the Mets trade Noah Syndergaard, a Norse God, to the muthafuckin' Yankees, then Mets fans will watch as Thor wins MULTIPLE World Series titles in the Bronx. Noah is special. You do not trade this franchise pitcher for J.T. Realmuto. The fact of the matter is that an ace like Thor is way, WAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than the difference between Realmuto and a Wilson Ramos signing.
And I'll end by saying, FUCK THE WILPONS FOR BEING SUCH CHEAP FUCKING OWNERS THAT WON'T JUST GO ALL IN ON A WINNER IN QUEENS. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKKCKKKKKKK YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. I feel better now.
Syndergaard to the pitching staff.My concerns in adding him is that he's never thrown 200 innings in his career (last year 154 innings) & the Yankees just added Paxton,who also has never thrown 200 innings (career high 160 innings last year) so although there is no question about either's stuff, there would be questions about their durability.
Yankees would obviously have to give up an awful lot to make this deal. Andujar & Florial just to start. Would I make such a deal? Yes but I'd much rather try to trade for Kluber but it seems the Dodgers w/an offer of Verdugo,have the inside track.
Syndergaard is cost-controlled until 2022 & this new Yankee management mindset seems to be wanting to stay under the cap(Prove me wrong Cash & sign Machado!) & using your young players to secure needs in trades seems to be Cashman's priority. From a Mets fan's perspective,I would think they need 2 pieces,Andujar & Realmuto to make this trade,while the Marlins get Florial & other Yankee prospects.
However,once all parties wake up from their naps,they may look at this as too volatile.Fun to think about as a fan & if it did happen,would make baseball in New York even more interesting!
+1000 DON'T TRADE SYNDERGAARD!!! The mets are not in a position to trade, they need to add players via FA, just cet a CF and a C and they will be fine, don't get stupid!
because someone will be getting screwed. I dont mind giving up what it takes to get NS but his injury history is real and its a problem. Id rather make a move for someone else slightly less talented but more reliable.
RE: As a Yankee fan,I'll preface this by saying,sure I'd love to add
Syndergaard to the pitching staff.My concerns in adding him is that he's never thrown 200 innings in his career (last year 154 innings) & the Yankees just added Paxton,who also has never thrown 200 innings (career high 160 innings last year) so although there is no question about either's stuff, there would be questions about their durability.
Yankees would obviously have to give up an awful lot to make this deal. Andujar & Florial just to start. Would I make such a deal? Yes but I'd much rather try to trade for Kluber but it seems the Dodgers w/an offer of Verdugo,have the inside track.
Syndergaard is cost-controlled until 2022 & this new Yankee management mindset seems to be wanting to stay under the cap(Prove me wrong Cash & sign Machado!) & using your young players to secure needs in trades seems to be Cashman's priority. From a Mets fan's perspective,I would think they need 2 pieces,Andujar & Realmuto to make this trade,while the Marlins get Florial & other Yankee prospects.
However,once all parties wake up from their naps,they may look at this as too volatile.Fun to think about as a fan & if it did happen,would make baseball in New York even more interesting!
I wonder if the trend towards early involvement of the Pen makes starter innings less of an issue?
RE: RE: As a Yankee fan,I'll preface this by saying,sure I'd love to add
Syndergaard to the pitching staff.My concerns in adding him is that he's never thrown 200 innings in his career (last year 154 innings) & the Yankees just added Paxton,who also has never thrown 200 innings (career high 160 innings last year) so although there is no question about either's stuff, there would be questions about their durability.
Yankees would obviously have to give up an awful lot to make this deal. Andujar & Florial just to start. Would I make such a deal? Yes but I'd much rather try to trade for Kluber but it seems the Dodgers w/an offer of Verdugo,have the inside track.
Syndergaard is cost-controlled until 2022 & this new Yankee management mindset seems to be wanting to stay under the cap(Prove me wrong Cash & sign Machado!) & using your young players to secure needs in trades seems to be Cashman's priority. From a Mets fan's perspective,I would think they need 2 pieces,Andujar & Realmuto to make this trade,while the Marlins get Florial & other Yankee prospects.
However,once all parties wake up from their naps,they may look at this as too volatile.Fun to think about as a fan & if it did happen,would make baseball in New York even more interesting!
I wonder if the trend towards early involvement of the Pen makes starter innings less of an issue?
To some extent,sure. But for these 2 guys the limitation of their innings was,to some degree,injury related.Plus,if an extended post season is the goal, their inning totals will grow considerably. All that being said,I'd still make the deal (although I'd rather trade for Kluber).
Did I miss when Realmuto became the next Johnny Bench?
If the plan is to sign Morton or Happ to replace Thor or Syndergaard... it's a bad one but far worse when you learn the Mets haven't met with either player whereas other teams have. The Phillies have been in "consistent dialogue" with Happ for example. What happens when Happ signs? Then what? You wouldn't have this second move already signed sealed and delivered?
because someone will be getting screwed. I dont mind giving up what it takes to get NS but his injury history is real and its a problem. Id rather make a move for someone else slightly less talented but more reliable.
He actually has had no major injury ever. He missed some time due to a finger issue this past year and he partially tore a lat in another year (muscle injury that fully healed/heals). Zero tendon, ligament, elbow, rotator cuff issues. deGrom easily has a much scarier past.
haven't even Met with Happ or Morton and Wheeler is a FA after the year. PS why is everyone so sure Wheeler takes a team friendly deal if offered (they haven't had talks) but given Wheeler has proven himself to be one of the more cocky/self assured players on the team.. why is it a given he doesn't see Corbin have 1 great season, land 140 and believe in himself enough to land something "big" or hit FA? I think this idea he's taking some really team friendly deal is based on nada other than wishful thinking. This could be an absolute DISASTER. The Mets SP depth beyond their big 4 RIGHT NOW is very, very, very thin minus Dunn, Kilome and Crismatt.... Thor and then Wheeler a FA in a year... YEESH.
Max Wildstein
✔
@MaxWildstein
Source: Prospects being floated in a possible three-team trade involving #Mets, #Marlins by #Yankees are Clint Frazier, Jonathan Loaisiga, Mike King, Chance Adams, and Sonny Gray. It is still pretty early in process from vibe that Im getting. Theres smoke, tho.
So, Ryan Church Part 2, a pitcher who cant pitch in NY and a bunch of filler. Of course, the Yankees arent willing to part with actual good prospects for Thor. This is just another trade scenario where the Mets will probably lose.
If the plan is to sign Morton or Happ to replace Thor or Syndergaard... it's a bad one but far worse when you learn the Mets haven't met with either player whereas other teams have. The Phillies have been in "consistent dialogue" with Happ for example. What happens when Happ signs? Then what? You wouldn't have this second move already signed sealed and delivered?
I think one of them (Morton or Happ) can replace Thor, but they definitely can't replace Syndergaard.
...some team will have to drop a TON of gold to get Noah Syndergaard. Needs to be at minimum two high-end position players and a budding minor league star. Short of that, don't touch any deal.
But here's a better solution: Just keep Syndergaard and pay the man when the time comes.
Mets fans deserve to see this guy remain a Met.
Period.
ps The Mets would be out of their minds to let him pitch for the Yanks.
I would also assume that the Yankees risk adjust their time when it comes to dealing with Angelos, Wilpon, Pittsburgh and a few others who make decisions out of fear more than conviction or analysis no matter what their FO tells them
trade a player to the Yankees. I just don't think the names floated so far have been close to enough.
This would be similar to Chris Sale, not quite, but similar.
Noah has 3 full season of cost control, so did Sale.
Sale was maybe a little more established, but Syndergaard would be 2 years younger (just about) at the time of the trade.
I would not do this trade in a Realmuto threesome, that confuses things, but I'd trade him (anyone is available for the right price), but I haven't seen anything close to the right price.
Catcher is such a black hole position - the Red Sox won the WS with catchers who had a worse WAR than Plawecki and Mesoraco.
The year before the Astros won with a very pedestrian Brian McCann (and his 13% CS and 1.7 fWAR)
In 2016 Miguel Montero was brutal for the Cubs and so was ancient David Ross.
You don't need Gary Carter or Mike Piazza behind the plate to win in this era. I'd rather simply get the best defensive catcher and just consider any offense gravy.
and thats how I see it with the Yankees. Give Sanchez 1 more shot at turning things around but if he cant handle getting better at both catching and correcting his hitting, completely remove him as a C, get a full time defensive C and move Sanchez to DH or trade him.
I don't think this trade goes through but the positive is
that the Mets and Yankees are actually in a serious negotiation and not letting the cross town rivalry prevent them from conducting business. I am on the Mets side of things but am not naive that the Yankees are a flagship team and the Mets need to get an identity,
We may need an OF, how is this Judge guy that the Yankees have?
(I am obviously joking before I get LOL'd to death).
Trading Thor for a catcher is a total "spin wheels in place" move.
up Thor, the Mets need to get back Realmuto and Hicks. Yankees pay full cost of Realmuto (prospects/young talent as well).
For Mets, trade would be Thor for Realmuto and Hicks. For Yankees, Hicks plus prospects for Thor. Mets would then continue going all-in and deal for Kluber (likely emptying out most of what's left in the farm).
Not sure I'd even like this deal, but we need more than Realmuto coming back if Thor is going out.
that these winter meetings are out in Vegas; radio silence in the morning due to the 3 hour time difference, then pandemonium while sleeping on the east coast.
Tim Healey
✔
@timbhealey
Mets & Yankees have talked about versions of a three-way deal involving Marlins that would send Realmuto to the Mets & Syndergaard to the Yankees, sources confirm.
A deal is not close, and frankly seems pretty unlikely.
But Brodie Van Wagenen is clearly willing to be creative.
I also saw another blog, where it was stated that the 3-way deal involving the Yanks, wasn't the best offer that has been presented to the Mets.
the "mystery owner" that flew in to meet with Harper?
No. Jeff did fly in but the Mets have no plans to meet with Harper. Jeff is there in case they need to sign off on a move. Many believe Miller may happen. Sounds like Britton will not.
It's one thing for them to deal seeming disappointing contracts like Robin Ventura for David Justice (and Ventura turned into an All Star for the Yankees).
Or a late season Frank Tanana trade (for you old timers who remember).
If Thor returns to being an ace and helps the Yankees win a Championship, it will be another gut punch to the Mets. I can't see them doing this.
Yankees will sign Happ. Tool around with Machado, but if they can't work that out, Hal will be just fine and dandy putting the money back in his pocket. He should just sell the team already like it's been rumored. He's not his father, we know that.
the "mystery owner" that flew in to meet with Harper?
No. Jeff did fly in but the Mets have no plans to meet with Harper. Jeff is there in case they need to sign off on a move. Many believe Miller may happen. Sounds like Britton will not.
the "mystery owner" that flew in to meet with Harper?
No. Jeff did fly in but the Mets have no plans to meet with Harper. Jeff is there in case they need to sign off on a move. Many believe Miller may happen. Sounds like Britton will not.
What do you think Miller is looking for $$ wise?
Really hard to say. People are suggesting 12-13 per season but Kimbrel is supposedly asking for 6 years so who knows what the FA market brings.
It's one thing for them to deal seeming disappointing contracts like Robin Ventura for David Justice (and Ventura turned into an All Star for the Yankees).
Or a late season Frank Tanana trade (for you old timers who remember).
If Thor returns to being an ace and helps the Yankees win a Championship, it will be another gut punch to the Mets. I can't see them doing this.
Yankees will sign Happ. Tool around with Machado, but if they can't work that out, Hal will be just fine and dandy putting the money back in his pocket. He should just sell the team already like it's been rumored. He's not his father, we know that.
I get the impression Hal is trying to implement some form of Money-Ball
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWARs last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
discussing Wheeler, on their own, separate from anything with Miami.
Wheeler for Frazier and Loaisiga.
Yanks get to make sure Wheeler is for real on the cheap before making the decision to pay him next year. His upside is potentially a 1a/2 starter after Severino in Yanks rotation.
Frazier is a very good prospect with some health question marks but still very good upside. Loaisiga allows the Mets to keep some SP depth. Mets focus on paying and building around Jake and Thor.
Its speculation on a thread about speculation so taking Matt's comments further:
Businesses are sold and bought by multiplying the recent bottom line x the number of years you think it can be repeated x a risk adjustment up or down. Obviously, in sports there is a "prestige adjustment" some buyers are willing to pay
So if you are going to sell, first you prepare to sell by capturing the potential for future bottom line income and prestige at the most cost managed position you can take.
So are the Yankees being "positioned" for sale? We shall see.
Makes much more sense at Hals age to sell minority percentages and buy them back so you can sell the same franchise more than once or use the profits from the Yankees and then buy back 100% of the YES Network...so who knows? They are advised by Goldman Sachs so all sorts of creative ways to monetize the family's stake are possible
not shitting on Andujar here but it wouldn't be the worst idea for them to sell high. Defense/walk rate.. I'm not saying he's not good but if someone was open to him as a headliner for a big SP etc it's a no-brainer to me. Also Evan Roberts "proposed" 3 way is moronic. Thank You.
Sign JDG to a 5 year extension.
Instead of signing a back end FA starter, sign Wheeler to a 3 year extension w/ AAV just under what Eovoldi got.
If Thor is willing to take a Carrasco type deal now, great, otherwise sign him to an extension next offseason.
Cross fingers that 2/3 are healthy and pitching well heading into October.
but teams are aware of the asking price and there are a plethora of teams still interested. That should tell you something.
I think the Yanks are playing this smart. Make it known that Andujar isn't available and he's a part of the future. Teams want what they can't have. Then make him available in the last minute to save other prospects. Then sign MM(assuming they know his asking price and are in the ballpark).
For the Mets, it doesn't seem like enough for me and I don't understand their willingness to give up Noah when they clearly have a 2-3 year window.
For the Yankees, I know a lot won't agree, but I would be all in on Wheeler too. He will cost a lot less and adds a level of risk, but the reward is higher than Syndergaard, IMO.
I know he sucks offensively but if they have to sign Maldonado
to afford locking up Wheeler + JDG + Thor then so be it. I'd prefer Cervelli if they have to go less expensive, but out of every position C is the easiest to compromise offense for defense. Plawecki's development isn't hopeless either, he still has a chance - especially offensively.
He's involved with every FA and trade possibility and it's not just smoke and mirrors. Not saying that the decisions will be right(I think the Seattle trade was a potentially bad move), but he's making sure that he's aware of every asking price so he can evaluate and see if it makes the Mets better. I also think he's smart to work with the Yankees. An unwillingness to work with a team that can help you get better because you don't want to help them is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I guess its the durability concerns, but its not like Thor is throwing 250 innings/year either.
I really hope Mets hold onto ZW - he turned a corner last year big time. Matz also showed improvement, but I'm still not quite convinced there and I think he'd get shelled in the AL East anyway so if I am Cashman I pass there.
He's involved with every FA and trade possibility and it's not just smoke and mirrors. Not saying that the decisions will be right(I think the Seattle trade was a potentially bad move), but he's making sure that he's aware of every asking price so he can evaluate and see if it makes the Mets better. I also think he's smart to work with the Yankees. An unwillingness to work with a team that can help you get better because you don't want to help them is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I agree with this - I applaud his creativity and activity, just hope he also shows good judgement. Seattle move was highly volatile - hoping the next move he makes is less so.
I agree about Wheeler, but it's def the injury concerns. Forget the innings, look at what the injuries actually were. NS has had a finger and lat issue compared to Wheeler who has had multiple elbow(and i think shoulder?) injuries.
I agree about Wheeler, but it's def the injury concerns. Forget the innings, look at what the injuries actually were. NS has had a finger and lat issue compared to Wheeler who has had multiple elbow(and i think shoulder?) injuries.
Correct - Wheeler also had an irregular recovery from TJS where he had to get shutdown for a 2nd season. Eovaldi provides a very good comp because he's same age, similarly had injury issues, high end talent, and this year it clicked. I have to believe a good number of the teams who were interested in Eovaldi as a starter would be willing to spend similar $ on Wheeler.
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWARs last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Andujar has more power than Mcneil and obviously younger
but Mcneil's bat is real as well. You don't post a k rate under 10% by accident. His contact skills are legitimate. Less power obviously caps longer term upside, but he can hit.
I agree about Wheeler, but it's def the injury concerns. Forget the innings, look at what the injuries actually were. NS has had a finger and lat issue compared to Wheeler who has had multiple elbow(and i think shoulder?) injuries.
Correct - Wheeler also had an irregular recovery from TJS where he had to get shutdown for a 2nd season. Eovaldi provides a very good comp because he's same age, similarly had injury issues, high end talent, and this year it clicked. I have to believe a good number of the teams who were interested in Eovaldi as a starter would be willing to spend similar $ on Wheeler.
Yeah but Wheelers sample size was much bigger, no? Wheeler was dominant in the second half of the season, Eovaldi had a great postseason.
Off topic but...Maldonado is... 32. "Under CSAA, framing ability peaks around age 25, declines gradually until about 32, and then starts falling off a cliff, although certain catchers (the Jose Molinas of the world) hold on to the ability longer than most." https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/25514/moving-beyond-wowy-a-mixed-approach-to-measuring-catcher-framing/
I agree about Wheeler, but it's def the injury concerns. Forget the innings, look at what the injuries actually were. NS has had a finger and lat issue compared to Wheeler who has had multiple elbow(and i think shoulder?) injuries.
Correct - Wheeler also had an irregular recovery from TJS where he had to get shutdown for a 2nd season. Eovaldi provides a very good comp because he's same age, similarly had injury issues, high end talent, and this year it clicked. I have to believe a good number of the teams who were interested in Eovaldi as a starter would be willing to spend similar $ on Wheeler.
Yeah but Wheelers sample size was much bigger, no? Wheeler was dominant in the second half of the season, Eovaldi had a great postseason.
Correct - Eovaldi has never been as good as Wheeler was in the 2nd half, but he has been more consistent generally and more productive over his career. The year of control obviously hurts Wheeler's negotiating position at the moment compared to Eovaldi who peaked right before FA, if they were both free Wheeler might be able to get more. But he's not so I think it would be reasonable for both sides to do a similar or slightly lesser AAV deal now.
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWARs last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Silly? Is this just a thought you have or do you actually have experience with the two players?
There is a 3 year age gap - but because McNeil went to college they have the same number of pro seasons, and Andujar has more power, but from an OPS+ standpoint the bats are very similar.
McNeil has been injured throughout his minor league career, but he's got a career .818 OPS (6 seasons).
Off topic but...Maldonado is... 32. "Under CSAA, framing ability peaks around age 25, declines gradually until about 32, and then starts falling off a cliff, although certain catchers (the Jose Molinas of the world) hold on to the ability longer than most." https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/25514/moving-beyond-wowy-a-mixed-approach-to-measuring-catcher-framing/
I know - but even pricing in regression his numbers last year still have a claim to being the best defensive catcher available other than Grandal and probably the best thrower - which is generally not that important but with pitchers like Syndergaard who have a major weakness slowing down the running game has amplified value. Trust me, I get that he's not every day starter quality and going to hit 8th and do it poorly. But I think he adds things defensively that help and if he saves money to invest other places vs. making a silly deal for Realmuto so be it.
RE: RE: I really dont even know why the Mets would
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWARs last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Actually, although a smaller sample, McNeil was a much better hitter than Andujar as well... also both rookies so the flash in the pan stuff works both ways.
we really trying to compare minor league OPS' of Andujar and McNeil? One started his minor league career as a 21 year old out of college and one started his as a 17 year old out of the Dominican Republic...
we really trying to compare minor league OPS' of Andujar and McNeil? One started his minor league career as a 21 year old out of college and one started his as a 17 year old out of the Dominican Republic...
Ive never understood this logic. McNeil literally was playing another sport. He started baseball much later than most players. Does starting the game older give you some sort of an advantage Im unaware of?
RE: RE: RE: I really dont even know why the Mets would
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWARs last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Actually, although a smaller sample, McNeil was a much better hitter than Andujar as well... also both rookies so the flash in the pan stuff works both ways.
I like McNeil a lot; he's on my dynasty fbb team and he helped me a ton. He wasn't a better hitter, and he definitely wasn't a "much better" hitter.
McNeil .852 OPS on the back of a .359 BABIP.
Andujar .855 OPS (.316 BABIP).
Not saying anything about the absurd trade ideas and etc. Obviously these intertwined conversations between NYY/NYM have a tendency to get a little bit chippy...we can all help do our part in avoiding that by not saying ridiculous shit.
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWARs last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Silly? Is this just a thought you have or do you actually have experience with the two players?
There is a 3 year age gap - but because McNeil went to college they have the same number of pro seasons, and Andujar has more power, but from an OPS+ standpoint the bats are very similar.
McNeil has been injured throughout his minor league career, but he's got a career .818 OPS (6 seasons).
Andujar has a career .754 OPS (7 seasons).
7 seasons? .754 OPS?
Not sure who's numbers you're looking at, but they aren't Miguels.
What is the extensive injury history for Syndagaard? That is simply not true. His arm hasnt had any serious injuries. And this guy has the potential to be a cy young winner. Where else are you getting that? Dont trade this guy.
Just sign Grandal. When did Realmuto become Piazza and Pudge combined. Why cant they Mets just sign a couple players they dont need to trade talent for!
And this inflated value of Andujar is nuts. I dont get it.
it's one thing to do it over 250 AB's and another thing to do it over 550 AB's. Andujar is a legit hitter. Dude had 47 doubles and 27 HR's as a rookie and consistently hit the ball hard. There's a reason the Yankees don't want to include him in any discussions.
apparently being shopped. Roark isn't even particularly good. Last 2 seasons 4.20 FIP. 1 year of control. The teams in on Sonny Gray likely are the same who would have interest in Roark.
@Ken_Rosenthal
7m7 minutes ago
More
Name to watch with #Yankees: Miguel Andjar. Rival execs tell me and @ByRobertMurray NYY open to moving him. Would make sense as #Marlins ask for Realmuto; MIA wants established young MLB player as headliner. Also would line up with NYY pursuit of Machado. Torres could play SS.
People can shit on Andujar's defense, but his bat is for real, and will get better. If the Yankees are making him available, that means the Machado stuff is probably heating up.
If the Yankees walk away with Thor and Machado as part of all of this, the Yankees are going to be the trendy pick to win it all next year.
Andujar and McNeil are completely different hitters
The bat was never a concern with Andujar it was always his defense that was the question. McNeil burst onto the scene last year but he needs to display his progress over a larger sample before I will fully buy in. He did have a high BABIP but he still has a great walk rate and low k rate. This year will be key for him assuming he isnt relegated to the bench.
@Ken_Rosenthal
7m7 minutes ago
More
Name to watch with #Yankees: Miguel Andjar. Rival execs tell me and @ByRobertMurray NYY open to moving him. Would make sense as #Marlins ask for Realmuto; MIA wants established young MLB player as headliner. Also would line up with NYY pursuit of Machado. Torres could play SS.
People can shit on Andujar's defense, but his bat is for real, and will get better. If the Yankees are making him available, that means the Machado stuff is probably heating up.
If the Yankees walk away with Thor and Machado as part of all of this, the Yankees are going to be the trendy pick to win it all next year.
Well put Matt on Andujar. But if the Yanks get Thor and Machado, it won't be trendy. They are already considered a leading team for the WS next year. So adding those two won't make it trendy, but probably favorites. (maybe I nitpicked here)
And this inflated value of Andujar is nuts. I dont get it.
Of course you don't get it, you think your Roy Hobbs at 3b is a budding superstar. Enjoy the BAbip regression.
McNeil will likely regress some, but he does have a consistent track record in the minors. Injuries had derailed his career until now and hopefully are behind him.
but he didn't exactly come out of nowhere.
And he's 27 before next season while Andujar is 24 (there are less than 3 years difference between them), it's not like people are calling him grandpa.
does BABIP matter or NAH? or I suppose McNeil's just such a machine that he's going to continue putting out .360+?
Baghdad Z doing Baghdad Z things.
Much better is a matter of perspective I guess. Almost a 10% swing in OPS+/wRC+ land is the difference between a Jay Bruce and a Yoenis Cespedes so yeah... that can be significant. I also prefaced what I was saying with I totally get McNeil had a smaller sample. I also agree McNeils BABIP was a high... a guy that puts a lot of balls in play sometimes will have a higher BABIP but it bears watching. Andujar has signs of regression as well. I actually expect McNeil to hit more power in the majors than he showed after he fully adjusts but his OPS will come down some. Either way... Andujar wasnt a better hitter in their rookie seasons and his defense is atrocious. I see no reason why the Mets would want him.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
Can't imagine this is accurate. Yankees win big here, Mets win too, and Marlins lose in a yuuuge way.
Agreed - if Andujar is getting dealt it's to the Marlins. He seems like the exact type of player they want and we all know they are more likely to rate assets from the NYY system well. Andujar + something to the Marlins, a SP to the Yankees, and Realmuto to the mets makes logical sense, which scares me as a met fan bc out of every potential asset in that deal (including Wheeler) I think Realmuto is the most overrated by a healthy margin.
That proposed return seems awfully light for the Marlins.
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
seems like a moron as an owner but that's an atrocious trade. Ryder Green was a 3rd round pick this year and did not have a good debut. That's not to say he sucks but his stock certainly is not "up". So a third round pick prospect who is what? 4 years away? 5? And Frazier coming off a lost season and whos stock is down for Realmuto? If that's all it would cost the Yankees would just deal with the Marlins directly. I know they have Sanchez but that's a heist. Not happening.
RE: It would be funny to see Andujar go to the Mets now
Pre-Trade "I don't understand why the minor league stats of a 17 year old is not directly comparable to a 21 year old college player"
After "You know the number of errors Andujar has committed each season has gone down from 26 to 15 from when he was 19 years old to now; by the time he's McNeils age hes on pace to be have like 5 a year"
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
Sonny Gray says hello ;) . Yankees would send Sonny to Flushing.
RE: RE: It would be funny to see Andujar go to the Mets now
Pre-Trade "I don't understand why the minor league stats of a 17 year old is not directly comparable to a 21 year old college player"
After "You know the number of errors Andujar has committed each season has gone down from 26 to 15 from when he was 19 years old to now; by the time he's McNeils age hes on pace to be have like 5 a year"
I don't think anyone shit on Andujar. Some Mets fans simply said Andujar's bat is not "in a different league" from Jeff McNeil's.
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
unless you flip the Mets 2nd piece in the trade (Andujar or whoever it is) and Gimenez to Cleveland for Kluber (or someone else)
Only reason I can see the Mets trading Thor is because they either dont want to pay him and Degrom next year or they anticipate injury.
this would all make sense in that they would hold Florial, who they want to keep. They would pass on Harper and look to cobble together one more season of Gardner to make sure he isn't blocked. Andujar as a trade chip selling very high to bring back a top end starter and then use the money to sign Machado seems to be the right move.
And the Yankees will trade Gray, perhaps in a Mets deal, or for prospects to recoup the farm a bit.
If this trade comes to fruition then watch Brodie go out and get Kluber
4 team trade!!!!!!
But seriously even getting Kluber won't change the math on JTR <<<< Thor. If they can get Kluber on a fair deal do it and keep Thor.
Wheeler (by proxy) for JTR makes some sense if they have some alternative SP pitching options lined up since Wheeler isn't under contract beyond next season and you will have to pay him close to FA prices anyway.
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
Sonny Gray says hello ;) . Yankees would send Sonny to Flushing.
Perfect. Has stunk for a few seasons now, a FA after the season and his own GM noted he couldn't handle the market. Perfect Met.
Gray and Realmuto make 10 million more than Syndergaard. Makes absolutely no sense. Not trying to rile up the Yankee fans but Sonny Gray is a mediocre MLB pitcher. Last 3 seasons era+ of 93, and that includes his time in Oakland so it's not just "well Yankee stadium!!"
Gray and Realmuto make 10 million more than Syndergaard. Makes absolutely no sense. Not trying to rile up the Yankee fans but Sonny Gray is a mediocre MLB pitcher. Last 3 seasons era+ of 93, and that includes his time in Oakland so it's not just "well Yankee stadium!!"
Nothing about a team trying to "win now" trading Syndergaard would make sense short of Kris Bryant or Trout.
I wouldn't love that deal personally as I think Mcneil isn't that far off Realmuto and obviously has more years of cheap control. But him + a prospect would seem like the type of return that would make sense for Miami. And possibly the mets too since they (stupidly) may not even see Mcneil as the every day starting 3b over Frazier.
Like I said, I wouldn't love that deal and I think Realmuto is getting insanely overpriced, but a deal along those lines would make a hell of a lot more sense than trading Thor.
it is when discussing mediocre Sonny Gray who makes MORE than him.
Again, would you be shocked if the Mets told the Yankees they need an arm back, in order to make a Thor deal and open up a Machado signing the Yankees would offer Gray and some $$ to offset costs? Gray screams a guy who a team will trade for and see if he could recoup his value and become a potential deal at the deadline in 2019 to add more prospects.
There are few absolutes in life. But one is that Sonny Gray will not be a Yankee in 2019. It's just a question of where is the right place to trade him.
To me, the caveat with an Andujar trade is that it has to mean Machado is a corresponding move.
If we're dealing Andujar and Todd Frazier is our 3B next year, I wouldn't be too thrilled.
Andujar only makes sense if Machado is coming to the Yankees. Didi is going to be out more or less all next year. They aren't filling 2 holes with stopgap players in a Frazier and whoever else to hold down the fort for Didi.
see Frazier come back in a deal for Syndergaard. Frazier could play 3rd, Machado at Short, Torres at 2b to start year, provides insurance if the Voit / Bird 1b doesnt work out so that when Didi comes back Machado shifts to third and Frazier could shift to 1st.
That's true - Todd Frazier could make sense for NYY if they want to roll with Machado @ SS temporarily while Didi is out. Then, move Machado to 3B when Didi is back and maybe they look into extending Didi - or they can explore other options @ SS and put Machado @ 3B regardless.
Machado just has to be signed if Andujar is dealt, IMO - there's basically no way trading Andujar works without that component.
and I'm sure thats the plan. They've probably been weighing MM vs Harper and it's all contingent on their next move. If they move Andujar, it's gotta be MM and I'm sure the Yankees are thinking the same thing.
Yankees get Syndergaard, Todd Frazier
Mets get Andujar and Realmuto
Marlins get Clint Frazier, Greg Bird and Loasiga
Who wins, who loses?
Andujar has to go to Marlins. Mets want Realmuto but they don't have the MLB impact player available that makes sense for Miami. Andujar is exactly the type of player the Marlins want. And again, the Yankees wouldn't do any of this unless Machado is coming.
@Joelsherman1
Follow Follow @Joelsherman1
More
Have heard multiple times now this scenario laid out: #Yankees try to get Realmuto, keep Sanchez as catcher/DH, move Stanton to OF more regularly. #Marlins
So, the would get Sanchez out and make him a fulltime DH? Play Stanton in the outfield? And then I guess sign Machado.
That rumor screams Yankees putting squeeze on Mets to say they will do the deal without them and get the right other chips to swing Realmuto for Thor.
Given the injury breakdown risk inherent in all pitchers, does Thor's motion have one too many moving parts and less then perfect mechanics so as to make him less likely to endure into his 30's and do so at over 175 innings per year?
Compared to those few pitchers with ace stuff and ace mechanics? ( Franchise Ace's if you will. Like DeGrom?)
There is no need to trade Thor right now, still has years of control.
What happens when JT is a FA after next year? Are they going to pony up and pay him? Just sign Grandal or Ramos who at the end of the day will end up being cheaper after two years then what you would have to shell out for JT.
Given the injury breakdown risk inherent in all pitchers, does Thor's motion have one too many moving parts and less then perfect mechanics so as to make him less likely to endure into his 30's and do so at over 175 innings per year?
Compared to those few pitchers with ace stuff and ace mechanics? ( Franchise Ace's if you will. Like DeGrom?)
Syndergaard has an extremely simple delivery for a big guy. Link - ( New Window )
Given the injury breakdown risk inherent in all pitchers, does Thor's motion have one too many moving parts and less then perfect mechanics so as to make him less likely to endure into his 30's and do so at over 175 innings per year?
Compared to those few pitchers with ace stuff and ace mechanics? ( Franchise Ace's if you will. Like DeGrom?)
Thor does not have a lot of moving pieces in his delivery.
All downside for the Mets - I know he's had injury problems but you don't trade one of the top 5 pitching talents in the game to your crosstown rival and not get one of their top guys (Torres, Judge, etc.).
Basically they would be trading Frazier + Andujar for Thor + Machado signing.
wouldn't work with the Yankees. The fact that they are in the same city should mean nothing, IMO. I think it's a great job by BVW to include a team always willing to make moves into the discussion. The ONLY thing that the Mets should be concerned with, IMO, is making the Mets better.
I add a significant bullpen piece (Miller, Familia, etc.)
I add a catcher. Ramos or Grandal. We know the Mets have already met with Ramos
I add a starting pitcher like Morton or Keuchel.
and I roll with it.
Pipe dream, I pursue both Machado and/or Harper, Mets could use both or either.
I don't see how trading Syndergaard makes the Mets better based on the proposed trades (in this thread at least).
And my comment have nothing to do with the Yankees. If I was a GM I'd trade my son to the Yankees if it made the Mets better. I don't consider them a rival and have no hate toward them other than when they play each other.
I watch almost every Yankee game but rarely any other team so I did not know that about Thor. I was wondering if there was going forward risk and they were selling high
Honestly, I don't know why the Mets would trade the guy.
imo, when this trade happens it happens. Until then it sure seems like media in a echo chamber tweeting without filters
He made a ton of sense when 3B was wide open but now that we acquired Cano, thats no longer the case. I still empty the Brinks truck for Harper though.
Yankees get Syndergaard and a Mets minor leaguer like Cheech, Lindsay, or Mauricio
Mets get Realmuto and Aaron Hicks (MUST be in the deal)
Marlins get Andujar, Loaisiga, Green
I still hate it, and the Yankees giving up Hicks, Andujar, Loaisiga, and Green sounds like a lot, but if you're getting back Thor and going to sign Machado, it's not crazy.
For the Mets, getting Realmuto AND Hicks make the deal not batshit crazy.
I watch almost every Yankee game but rarely any other team so I did not know that about Thor. I was wondering if there was going forward risk and they were selling high
Honestly, I don't know why the Mets would trade the guy.
imo, when this trade happens it happens. Until then it sure seems like media in a echo chamber tweeting without filters
The Mets aren't going to pay DeGrom and Thor. They were going to pick one to keep and DeGrom is the obvious choice. And with a pitcher, you want to trade him before any injuries hit as a precaution. The Mets still have Wheeler and Matz there. It's a financial decision.
I watch almost every Yankee game but rarely any other team so I did not know that about Thor. I was wondering if there was going forward risk and they were selling high
Honestly, I don't know why the Mets would trade the guy.
imo, when this trade happens it happens. Until then it sure seems like media in a echo chamber tweeting without filters
The Mets aren't going to pay DeGrom and Thor. They were going to pick one to keep and DeGrom is the obvious choice. And with a pitcher, you want to trade him before any injuries hit as a precaution. The Mets still have Wheeler and Matz there. It's a financial decision.
This is a poor argument to trade Syndergaard. He's not a FA for 3 years AND you still have to sign Realmuto to a contract vs. Syndergaard. It's one thing if Syndergaard were a pending FA. He's not. A lot can happen in 3 seasons.
Yankees get Syndergaard and a Mets minor leaguer like Cheech, Lindsay, or Mauricio
Mets get Realmuto and Aaron Hicks (MUST be in the deal)
Marlins get Andujar, Loaisiga, Green
I still hate it, and the Yankees giving up Hicks, Andujar, Loaisiga, and Green sounds like a lot, but if you're getting back Thor and going to sign Machado, it's not crazy.
For the Mets, getting Realmuto AND Hicks make the deal not batshit crazy.
Why would the Yankees trade Hicks? There is no reason for them to do so. If anything, the Mets are the ones pursuing Realmuto which is triggering all this. And would make sense for the Sherman rumor that the Yankees are saying they will just go ahead and deal for him themselves since they actually have the pieces the Marlins want, not the Mets. Mets need a 3rd team to make it work. It might be because the Mets want a Hicks and the Yankees are telling them to stuff it.
I watch almost every Yankee game but rarely any other team so I did not know that about Thor. I was wondering if there was going forward risk and they were selling high
Honestly, I don't know why the Mets would trade the guy.
imo, when this trade happens it happens. Until then it sure seems like media in a echo chamber tweeting without filters
The Mets aren't going to pay DeGrom and Thor. They were going to pick one to keep and DeGrom is the obvious choice. And with a pitcher, you want to trade him before any injuries hit as a precaution. The Mets still have Wheeler and Matz there. It's a financial decision.
This is a poor argument to trade Syndergaard. He's not a FA for 3 years AND you still have to sign Realmuto to a contract vs. Syndergaard. It's one thing if Syndergaard were a pending FA. He's not. A lot can happen in 3 seasons.
Yankees get Syndergaard and a Mets minor leaguer like Cheech, Lindsay, or Mauricio
Mets get Realmuto and Aaron Hicks (MUST be in the deal)
Marlins get Andujar, Loaisiga, Green
I still hate it, and the Yankees giving up Hicks, Andujar, Loaisiga, and Green sounds like a lot, but if you're getting back Thor and going to sign Machado, it's not crazy.
For the Mets, getting Realmuto AND Hicks make the deal not batshit crazy.
Why would the Yankees trade Hicks? There is no reason for them to do so. If anything, the Mets are the ones pursuing Realmuto which is triggering all this. And would make sense for the Sherman rumor that the Yankees are saying they will just go ahead and deal for him themselves since they actually have the pieces the Marlins want, not the Mets. Mets need a 3rd team to make it work. It might be because the Mets want a Hicks and the Yankees are telling them to stuff it.
Because they'd be getting back one of the best young starting pitchers in the game?
Why would the Yankees trade Hicks? There is no reason for them to do so.
If the Yankees trade Hicks and hold onto Andujar, they can then sign Harper to play left field and play Gardner in center for one year before Florial takes over in 2020.
I'd rather lose Hicks and sign Harper than lose Andujar and sign Machado.
Joel Sherman
Verified account @Joelsherman1
18m18 minutes ago
Will say this about outside perception about what #Yankees will do, internally NYY doesnt love Stanton regularly in OF for health/result reasons and have never seemed to believe they have good match for Realmuto plus Cashman has said Sanchez is his catcher.
24 replies 42 retweets 134 likes
Seems to be saying that outsiders are floating the scenario of Stanton to OF and Sanchez to DH, not the Yankees.
Yankees get Syndergaard and a Mets minor leaguer like Cheech, Lindsay, or Mauricio
Mets get Realmuto and Aaron Hicks (MUST be in the deal)
Marlins get Andujar, Loaisiga, Green
I still hate it, and the Yankees giving up Hicks, Andujar, Loaisiga, and Green sounds like a lot, but if you're getting back Thor and going to sign Machado, it's not crazy.
For the Mets, getting Realmuto AND Hicks make the deal not batshit crazy.
Why would the Yankees trade Hicks? There is no reason for them to do so. If anything, the Mets are the ones pursuing Realmuto which is triggering all this. And would make sense for the Sherman rumor that the Yankees are saying they will just go ahead and deal for him themselves since they actually have the pieces the Marlins want, not the Mets. Mets need a 3rd team to make it work. It might be because the Mets want a Hicks and the Yankees are telling them to stuff it.
Because they'd be getting back one of the best young starting pitchers in the game?
They dont have to give up Hicks because the Mets, from what it sounds like, need a third team to get Realmuto.
Yankees get Syndergaard and a Mets minor leaguer like Cheech, Lindsay, or Mauricio
Mets get Realmuto and Aaron Hicks (MUST be in the deal)
Marlins get Andujar, Loaisiga, Green
I still hate it, and the Yankees giving up Hicks, Andujar, Loaisiga, and Green sounds like a lot, but if you're getting back Thor and going to sign Machado, it's not crazy.
For the Mets, getting Realmuto AND Hicks make the deal not batshit crazy.
Why would the Yankees trade Hicks? There is no reason for them to do so. If anything, the Mets are the ones pursuing Realmuto which is triggering all this. And would make sense for the Sherman rumor that the Yankees are saying they will just go ahead and deal for him themselves since they actually have the pieces the Marlins want, not the Mets. Mets need a 3rd team to make it work. It might be because the Mets want a Hicks and the Yankees are telling them to stuff it.
Matt, the Mets aren't going to trade Noah Syndergaard and his 3 years of control for just J.T. Realmuto. Never going to happen. There HAS to be another legit piece coming back.
Yankees get Syndergaard and a Mets minor leaguer like Cheech, Lindsay, or Mauricio
Mets get Realmuto and Aaron Hicks (MUST be in the deal)
Marlins get Andujar, Loaisiga, Green
I still hate it, and the Yankees giving up Hicks, Andujar, Loaisiga, and Green sounds like a lot, but if you're getting back Thor and going to sign Machado, it's not crazy.
For the Mets, getting Realmuto AND Hicks make the deal not batshit crazy.
Yanks are not trading Starting CF (2nd to Trout in AL Stats), starting 3Bman, a BP set up man and a potential SP for Syndergaard.
not saying it fits perfectly, but if he were a FA he'd fit somewhere between Corbin and Eovaldi - both guys they pursued as FA who were obviously in high demand on the open market. Is 1 year of that worth Andujar? Probably not, that's pretty rich. But if the Marlins like other pieces in the Yankees system better than the Mets, maybe there's something that lines up. Not entirely familiar with how they are valued right now but maybe Sanchez or Bird would have interest for Miami (in combo with some other prospects from either mets or yankees system). Something that equates to Realmuto for Wheeler+ is the only thing that makes sense to me from the Mets side.
Think Syndergaard is being overvalued here, frankly
is much greater than the way another team would value him in a trade given the pending free agency.
Hicks would not headline a package for a bigtime SP, and the Yankees would much sooner add to the prospect return than move their starting CF as a secondary/tertiary piece.
Plus defense, plus discipline, switch hitter, very good baserunner, power.
Not out of the question that he gets moved, but I don't see it happening. I think it's more likely that they play out the year. If they trade Florial, they likely look to sign Hicks long term. If Florial is kept and rebounds from last year, Hicks probably declines a QO and walks, NYY gladly takes the pick.
RE: Think Syndergaard is being overvalued here, frankly
He ain't Chris Sale or Corey Kluber. He has overwhelming stuff but hasn't yet made the jump from very good starter to great Cy Young candidate.
Greg,
He was 11th in baseball in FIP second half and since debuting in 2015 he's 14th. How overrated can he be? 13 pitchers have been better by FIP and 13th by fWAR and that's WITH his missed time. Gotta disagree with you here. He's very, very good with a chance to be a Cy Young caliber pitcher still.
on Hicks inclusion in any deal. Hicks and two years of Realmuto is the minimal return to send Syndergaard to the Bronx. I still wouldn't do the deal from Mets POV.
sorry he's 2nd in baseball in FIP over that time. 2nd! Lower FIP than Sale, (granted far less innings both due to when he came up and his injury) but 2.66 FIP. Link - ( New Window )
He ain't Chris Sale or Corey Kluber. He has overwhelming stuff but hasn't yet made the jump from very good starter to great Cy Young candidate.
He has 3 years of control at lower $ and is the same age as Sale when he got traded. Is there a pitcher (under 30) closer to Sale since that trade than Syndergaard? Cole had 2 years remaining and was coming off a 4 era. Syndergaard was worth 4.2 fwar last year in 25 starts (Sale was worth 4.9 the year before he was traded).
the only knock is that he's hit 180 IP once, and it's his highest total by about 30 IP.
has not yet shown to be a work-horse.
not a major issue, but if there's a knock, that's it.
For sure. But he's also only 26. It's not like this is year 8 of his career. No major surgeries. He's as dominant as any other top pitcher in the game when he pitches and again it's not like he has major red flags injury wise.
on Hicks inclusion in any deal. Hicks and two years of Realmuto is the minimal return to send Syndergaard to the Bronx. I still wouldn't do the deal from Mets POV.
Hicks, not Andujar? Hicks is 29 going on 30 and I think is FA next year, no?
Who plays CF? You can't put Gardner out there every day at age 36. Judge might be able to be adequate in center but there's no way they want him running that much.
sorry he's 2nd in baseball in FIP over that time. 2nd! Lower FIP than Sale, (granted far less innings both due to when he came up and his injury) but 2.66 FIP. Link - ( New Window )
Whenever the "Syndergaard is overrated" narrative gets passed around I feel like this:
Not happening. Cannot see Yanks giving up 2 starters. How do they replace Hicks' defense? I can see one, but not both and that is not to diminish Syndergaard's worth. He is likely a #1. But that opens two holes for the Yanks. Yes Machado will fill the infield hole favorably. But unless there is another starting CF laying around, it would be hard to lose Hicks. And there is little chance the Yanks go for both Machado and Harper.
Not happening. Cannot see Yanks giving up 2 starters. How do they replace Hicks' defense? I can see one, but not both and that is not to diminish Syndergaard's worth. He is likely a #1. But that opens two holes for the Yanks. Yes Machado will fill the infield hole favorably. But unless there is another starting CF laying around, it would be hard to lose Hicks. And there is little chance the Yanks go for both Machado and Harper.
I don't disagree, but I guess it would all depend on how close they thought Florial was. I believe he's still a year or 2 away so I'm not sure how the Yankees could make it work.
Who plays CF? You can't put Gardner out there every day at age 36. Judge might be able to be adequate in center but there's no way they want him running that much.
How quickly you forget the fully rested, $153 million secret weapon we have in the arsenal.
He pitches in a huge park in a really weak division in the weaker league.
FIP- is league and park adjusted so if you prefer using that, since 2016 he's #1 in baseball
"● ERA-, FIP-, and xFIP- are park and league adjusted. They control for home park and your specific leagues average ERA, FIP, or xFIP."
There are no numbers other than innings pitched in which Syndergaard can be argued has been anything worse than a top 10-15 SP in baseball. They don't exist. Link - ( New Window )
Yankees get Syndergaard and a Mets minor leaguer like Cheech, Lindsay, or Mauricio
Mets get Realmuto and Aaron Hicks (MUST be in the deal)
Marlins get Andujar, Loaisiga, Green
I still hate it, and the Yankees giving up Hicks, Andujar, Loaisiga, and Green sounds like a lot, but if you're getting back Thor and going to sign Machado, it's not crazy.
For the Mets, getting Realmuto AND Hicks make the deal not batshit crazy.
Why would the Yankees trade Hicks? There is no reason for them to do so. If anything, the Mets are the ones pursuing Realmuto which is triggering all this. And would make sense for the Sherman rumor that the Yankees are saying they will just go ahead and deal for him themselves since they actually have the pieces the Marlins want, not the Mets. Mets need a 3rd team to make it work. It might be because the Mets want a Hicks and the Yankees are telling them to stuff it.
Matt, the Mets aren't going to trade Noah Syndergaard and his 3 years of control for just J.T. Realmuto. Never going to happen. There HAS to be another legit piece coming back.
I don't necessarily disagree with you. That's why I said the Sherman rumor of the Yankees dealing for Realmuto directly and moving Sanchez to DH made no sense to me. It sounded like a warning to the Mets that if they want Realmuto that badly, the Yankees aren't going to give up additional players like a Hicks or maybe some other prospect. I don't see the Yankees trading Hicks. Again, the Mets are the team who is trying to land Realmuto here as the pivot point. Their problem is that they don't have what the Marlins want to make it happen so they need a 3rd team. If it's not the Yankees, it'll be someone else. But I don't see the Yankees giving up Hicks.
Who plays CF? You can't put Gardner out there every day at age 36. Judge might be able to be adequate in center but there's no way they want him running that much.
How quickly you forget the fully rested, $153 million secret weapon we have in the arsenal.
Cannot imagine how I forget that weapon..I am ashamed of myself.
Who plays CF? You can't put Gardner out there every day at age 36. Judge might be able to be adequate in center but there's no way they want him running that much.
You can dust off Jacoby Ellsbury for all I care, frankly, that's still not in any way an overpay for Syndergaard.
Who plays CF? You can't put Gardner out there every day at age 36. Judge might be able to be adequate in center but there's no way they want him running that much.
You can dust off Jacoby Ellsbury for all I care, frankly, that's still not in any way an overpay for Syndergaard.
There you go then, Andujar and Ellsbury for Syndergaard!
trade is an excellent framework for what a Syndergaard trade should look like. Sale had 5 years of excellent numbers to Thor's 3 but Syndergaards age compared to Sale sort of even it out and both had minor dings to their durability makeup. Sale had early career shoulder questions but at the time of the trade had 5 years of about 30 starts a season and 3 200+ inning seasons, Syndergaard having less elbow / shoulder concerns than Sale but failing to reach 200 innings. Both have 3 years of team control at the time of the deal.
The Sox gave up the #2 overall & #32 overall prospects in the game as well as a guy rated organizationally 8th and 28th at the time. The equivalent deal would almost be term for term Andujar (not ranked as a prospect anymore, but rookie of the year runner up), Florial - #45 ranked prospect, and maybe Loiasiga - #66 ranked & someone like a Ryder Green or other lower end 4th piece with upside. This upgrades the back end of the deal the Sox made as Loaisiga is light years better than the two throw ins in the Sale trade to make up for the slightly lower ranked Florial than Kopech. However you divvy up those four players between the Mets and the Marlins, that would be what a fair offer from the Yankees would be to receive Syndergaard.
Steve, big difference between Moncada and Andujar though.
Moncada was a prospect, Andujar is not. He has already proven to be an MLB caliber player and a great one at that. Guy had 47 doubles and 27 HR's as a rookie. His value is way higher than that of Moncada, IMO.
for wanting Sale to be the comp, but he had 3 200+ IP seasons plus another one at 192 IP at the time he was traded. He was a sure-fire, bona fide, work horse ace at the time he was traded. (In the AL, to boot.)
Not saying Noah can't get there, but he's a riskier player right now than Sale was at the time of the trade.
is not a proper comp. He put up his numbers in the AL and they were all better. I don't know what a proper comp would be for Thor speaking in terms of his production and contract, but Sale isn't it.
a Yankee fan by the way.... not a Met fan trying to make the Noah / Sale comp. I do agree I think Andujar is worth more currently than Moncada was then, I was more trying to make the point that some of those here who think the Yanks would need to add Hicks in the deal to make it even are overvaluing Syndergaard. An Andujar / Florial / Hicks deal is significantly more than Sale fetched and I dont think Syndergaard is worth more than Sale.
@Joelsherman1
4m4 minutes ago
More
#Padres have been told by #Marlins they have prospect inventory to get Realmuto but have not been told yet by Mia what combo would need to be.
RE: Think Syndergaard is being overvalued here, frankly
or at least not me is suggesting Syndergaard = Sale.
But you have to have a bar and there are not a lot of 26 year old top of the rotation pitchers who get traded.
call him an ace, call him a #1, call him top of the rotation. It's irrelevant. He throws 100 and has a 12 to 6 curveball. He hasn't even really put together a season that has matched his stuff yet and DMM showed you his FIP and FIP results.
So Sale is used as a comp not indicating the two pitchers are clones, but to see what it cost for the Sox to acquire Sale and evaluate the proposed return for Syndergaard accordingly.
And now is very different than then. At the time Sox fans and media were questioning was it an overpay. Moncada was #1 or #2 prospect in baseball. Today some of the bloom is off that rose and who knows if Moncada pans out, but that's the risk with prospects. but the price was steep even if it turns out poorly for the White Sox.
Mets acquired Santana, but that was a long time ago and the Mets immediately negotiated a massive extension for Santana so it's not apples to apples either but the Twins wound up with garbage for Santana (though Carlos Gomez later excelled, just not with the Twins).
Anyway, people get hung up on stuff, but the point is not to say Syndergaard = Sale.
Scherzer is another decent comp, but when he was traded, at a similar age, he had less credentials.
Maybe there are others too, I am sure there are, but not a ton.
There just aren't a lot of examples, so people look to the ones they have to compare and adjust in their minds what a fair trade looks like.
Personally, no way I trade Syndergaard for the names mentioned and it could be the established player version of prospect hugging, but I think he's more valuable to the Mets and the makeup of their team than the guys mentioned in return for him.
One negative I will say about him though is Syndergaard doesn't seem like he's improving. He's great as is without improvement, but seems to have plateaud IMO and some say he's hasn't "learned to pitch" and I see that a little.
I expected after his first year or two he'd become unhittable as he evolved, but he has remained the same (which of course is pretty damn good)
It's not prospect hugging when he's been that good in the MLs already.
and he said this 3 team scenario with Thor and the yankees is likely 100% BS... remember the winter meetings is a petri dish of bad info , agents , writers all have an agenda and will knowingly pass along stuff they know is not true ... tweeters/ writers do it knowing is bullshit so teh agents / gms will owe them a favor .. as long as they can still say they heard "X" .. they can write it ... fake news is rampant in sports as well :)
I wasn't trying to be critical, lol. I agree with your stance on this.
trade is an excellent framework for what a Syndergaard trade should look like. Sale had 5 years of excellent numbers to Thor's 3 but Syndergaards age compared to Sale sort of even it out and both had minor dings to their durability makeup. Sale had early career shoulder questions but at the time of the trade had 5 years of about 30 starts a season and 3 200+ inning seasons, Syndergaard having less elbow / shoulder concerns than Sale but failing to reach 200 innings. Both have 3 years of team control at the time of the deal.
The Sox gave up the #2 overall & #32 overall prospects in the game as well as a guy rated organizationally 8th and 28th at the time. The equivalent deal would almost be term for term Andujar (not ranked as a prospect anymore, but rookie of the year runner up), Florial - #45 ranked prospect, and maybe Loiasiga - #66 ranked & someone like a Ryder Green or other lower end 4th piece with upside. This upgrades the back end of the deal the Sox made as Loaisiga is light years better than the two throw ins in the Sale trade to make up for the slightly lower ranked Florial than Kopech. However you divvy up those four players between the Mets and the Marlins, that would be what a fair offer from the Yankees would be to receive Syndergaard.
A proven major league hitter is worth more than the #2 prospect. You won't get Andjuar and Florial.
I am not sure that rumors like this are about this trade
and he said this 3 team scenario with Thor and the yankees is likely 100% BS... remember the winter meetings is a petri dish of bad info , agents , writers all have an agenda and will knowingly pass along stuff they know is not true ... tweeters/ writers do it knowing is bullshit so teh agents / gms will owe them a favor .. as long as they can still say they heard "X" .. they can write it ... fake news is rampant in sports as well :)
also a dodger contact wanted to be me they get Bryce - I said no bet - FYI
and he said this 3 team scenario with Thor and the yankees is likely 100% BS... remember the winter meetings is a petri dish of bad info , agents , writers all have an agenda and will knowingly pass along stuff they know is not true ... tweeters/ writers do it knowing is bullshit so teh agents / gms will owe them a favor .. as long as they can still say they heard "X" .. they can write it ... fake news is rampant in sports as well :)
Thanks Capone. I hope its the case and Thor isnt traded to the Yankees for a crappy package.
and he said this 3 team scenario with Thor and the yankees is likely 100% BS... remember the winter meetings is a petri dish of bad info , agents , writers all have an agenda and will knowingly pass along stuff they know is not true ... tweeters/ writers do it knowing is bullshit so teh agents / gms will owe them a favor .. as long as they can still say they heard "X" .. they can write it ... fake news is rampant in sports as well :)
Thanks Capone. I hope its the case and Thor isnt traded to the Yankees for a crappy package.
Or the Yankees overpay for an NL pitcher likely to struggle in the AL East.
are not getting Noah Syndergaard, they don't have the capital to afford him without including Torres and that's not going to happen. Heck,
I don't think Andujar, Frazier and Loaisaga is enough to get back Wheeler and I'm a Yankee fan...
The Yankees are not getting Noah Syndergaard, they don't have the capital to afford him without including Torres and that's not going to happen. Heck, I don't think Andujar, Frazier and Loaisaga is enough to get back Wheeler and I'm a Yankee fan... Reformatted
Andujar, Frazier and Loaisiga isn't enough for Zack Wheeler?
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
Wheeler began 2018 in the minors. He had a ridiculous 3.5 months after a slow start, but I'd need to see more before ponying up a ton in terms of high end prospects.
I'd acquire him, but I don't think that post about not being enough is accurate.
and he said this 3 team scenario with Thor and the yankees is likely 100% BS... remember the winter meetings is a petri dish of bad info , agents , writers all have an agenda and will knowingly pass along stuff they know is not true ... tweeters/ writers do it knowing is bullshit so teh agents / gms will owe them a favor .. as long as they can still say they heard "X" .. they can write it ... fake news is rampant in sports as well :)
Thanks Capone. I hope its the case and Thor isnt traded to the Yankees for a crappy package.
Or the Yankees overpay for an NL pitcher likely to struggle in the AL East.
Lol, right. The scary AL East. Its amazing any pitcher succeeds pitching to any of those teams. Im willing to bet NS would do just fine.
But then again, its just as easy to say that any of your player wouldnt hit nearly as well with the top flight starting pitchers in the NL East.
Wheeler was brilliant last year, really came into his own and that's what teams are paying for now, look at Corbin and Eovaldi - prime years and recent high uptick in performance.
RE: Andujar, Frazier and Loaisiga isn't enough for Zack Wheeler?
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
That would be a really bad trade. One year of control on Wheeler.
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
That would be a really bad trade. One year of control on Wheeler.
The premise is the Yankees would resign him. But I get your point.
RE: RE: RE: Andujar, Frazier and Loaisiga isn't enough for Zack Wheeler?
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
RE: RE: RE: RE: Andujar, Frazier and Loaisiga isn't enough for Zack Wheeler?
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Andujar, Frazier and Loaisiga isn't enough for Zack Wheeler?
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
He's also a great hitter and only going to get better. So, nope.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Andujar, Frazier and Loaisiga isn't enough for Zack Wheeler?
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
He's also a great hitter and only going to get better. So, nope.
and he said this 3 team scenario with Thor and the yankees is likely 100% BS... remember the winter meetings is a petri dish of bad info , agents , writers all have an agenda and will knowingly pass along stuff they know is not true ... tweeters/ writers do it knowing is bullshit so teh agents / gms will owe them a favor .. as long as they can still say they heard "X" .. they can write it ... fake news is rampant in sports as well :)
Sounds about right. I'd love to land Thor for a limited damage package but that only pre-supposed the Mets were hellbent on getting Realmuto and the Yankees had them over a barrel. In my heart of hearts, I already know how this is going to end. Yankees will miss out on Muchado and Harper. They will sign Happ. They'll trade Gray for prospects. And Hal and Cashman will say that they spent their money on Stanton last year and to ignore the whole luxury tax thing and say they are better with Paxton and a full year of Happ.
and he said this 3 team scenario with Thor and the yankees is likely 100% BS... remember the winter meetings is a petri dish of bad info , agents , writers all have an agenda and will knowingly pass along stuff they know is not true ... tweeters/ writers do it knowing is bullshit so teh agents / gms will owe them a favor .. as long as they can still say they heard "X" .. they can write it ... fake news is rampant in sports as well :)
Yup, that was my thought lastnight. I can understand "talks" between the two teams but I think a lot of it is for show, or simply not true. When it comes to the Yankees/Mets and the cross need for Pitching/young position talent I just can't see either side giving in to the other and rightfully so.
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
He's also a great hitter and only going to get better. So, nope.
There is a reason Andujar is available.... Andujar available in trade talks - ( New Window )
And again, he's a tremendous hitter already in his rookie year. If they're going to trade him for an ace pitcher, fine. But for something less or just basically give him away? No thanks. Also, if they do trade him, who are you replacing him with?
Since they are on the hook for the whole contract, I wonder if the Yanks go after him. Worst case, he's done and they lose a million or two. Best case, he buys them time to get to Didi and then deal him when Didi gets back.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Andujar, Frazier and Loaisiga isn't enough for Zack Wheeler?
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
He's also a great hitter and only going to get better. So, nope.
There is a reason Andujar is available.... Andujar available in trade talks - ( New Window )
And again, he's a tremendous hitter already in his rookie year. If they're going to trade him for an ace pitcher, fine. But for something less or just basically give him away? No thanks. Also, if they do trade him, who are you replacing him with?
Theoretically Machado, Syndergaard is an ace pitcher, and if the deal was Andujar for Syndergaard straight up the Mets would be getting robbed. Every GM in baseball would sell Andujar for Syndergaard and pop bottles all night afterward.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Andujar, Frazier and Loaisiga isn't enough for Zack Wheeler?
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
He's also a great hitter and only going to get better. So, nope.
There is a reason Andujar is available.... Andujar available in trade talks - ( New Window )
And again, he's a tremendous hitter already in his rookie year. If they're going to trade him for an ace pitcher, fine. But for something less or just basically give him away? No thanks. Also, if they do trade him, who are you replacing him with?
Theoretically Machado, Syndergaard is an ace pitcher, and if the deal was Andujar for Syndergaard straight up the Mets would be getting robbed. Every GM in baseball would sell Andujar for Syndergaard and pop bottles all night afterward.
For an ace pitcher, fine. But not for Wheeler. And I have to see the Yankees sign Machado first, too. No guarantee that happens.
Jon Heyman
Verified account @JonHeyman
50s51 seconds ago
Mets said very aggressive on Realmuto. Debate in room now about whether to give up coveted SS Rosario in package or top SP Syndergaard. Mets didnt want to open SS hole but that hasnt been ruled out. Plus, while NYY thing is less a hurdle now, 3 way deals are still complicated
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Andujar, Frazier and Loaisiga isn't enough for Zack Wheeler?
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
He's also a great hitter and only going to get better. So, nope.
There is a reason Andujar is available.... Andujar available in trade talks - ( New Window )
And again, he's a tremendous hitter already in his rookie year. If they're going to trade him for an ace pitcher, fine. But for something less or just basically give him away? No thanks. Also, if they do trade him, who are you replacing him with?
The obvious replacement is Machado. I think this is what this is about. Trade Miggy, include him in a deal for a frontline starter and then sign Machado and open a 3-4 year window where NYY has a real chance at winning another championship or two, or three...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Andujar, Frazier and Loaisiga isn't enough for Zack Wheeler?
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
He's also a great hitter and only going to get better. So, nope.
There is a reason Andujar is available.... Andujar available in trade talks - ( New Window )
And again, he's a tremendous hitter already in his rookie year. If they're going to trade him for an ace pitcher, fine. But for something less or just basically give him away? No thanks. Also, if they do trade him, who are you replacing him with?
You replace him by signing Machado, who is also a better player.
Man, I love Andujar but man, some of you guys are treating him like hes the next coming of Miguel Cabrera.
Throw out all the overated analytics and look at the guy as a pitcher.
Can maintain 98 mph fastball through 110 ppitches
Has the hardest slider in baseball--maybe the hardest all-time
Rises to the occasion in big games. He is not a Kershaw who is great in regular season but not so much in postseason. Thor is at his best in big games. To be honest, I would definitely choose Thor over Degrom to start a must-win game. And I love Degrom.
He is only going to get better because he is still learning how to pitch.
The only negatives are he can't hold runners on and he has been injury prone. But the injuries are all unrelated and more of the freak nature.
but hopefully that turns out to not be the case. Obviously the only thing of value he's given up so far is Kelenic. I wouldn't have done it but it's not the end of the world.
Trading Rosario may not be the end of the world either but the pattern is not conducive to long term success. Acquiring veterans in their respective primes at the top of their positions is certainly important, but that's only half the equation. Need a strong base of young talent developed internally. Rosario is 23 years old and can easily be a plus hitter / plus defender at a premium position as soon as right now. I wouldn't give that up for a guy 2 years from FA.
seems in over his head. This is idiotic. Realmuto is a very good player. He's not a special player.
Jose Ramirez first 180 MLB games 1.7 fWAR, Arenado first 133 MLB games 1.8 fWAR, JDM first 252 games NEGATIVE .1 fWAR, Freeman 177 games .4 fWAR, Rosario 200 games 1.8 fWAR... BUST!!!!
The Yankees have apparently had preliminary talks about Scooter Gennett with the Reds
Gray for Gannett has been rumored for a while. Honestly, it's up Cashman's alley to dumpster dive. I wonder if the Yankees try to sign Tulo to plug in at short while Didi is out. Tulo gets to try to resurrect his career with little pressure considering all the bats he has around him. And the Yankees don't have to screw around moving Torres.
no point watching the Marlins was I ever "scared" to see Realmuto up there. That's the kind of player you consider dealing a Rosario or a Nimmo or even a Syndergaard for. This is very, very silly if accurate.
no point watching the Marlins was I ever "scared" to see Realmuto up there. That's the kind of player you consider dealing a Rosario or a Nimmo or even a Syndergaard for. This is very, very silly if accurate.
You would think he was Piazza in his prime with all the attention he is getting. Especially annoying with so many other options in FA.
Rosario the #5 overall prospect in baseball a few years ago, and he caught fire towards the end of his official first season in the bigs and now trading him away...? Makes no sense, especially if for Realmuto straight up
Rosario and Dunn in one off-season and maybe even Thor he's got a giant set of balls.
because it means he's putting all his chips in to the center of the table and calling everyone's bluff.
he could become a Mets hero and basically pick his career path (with just about any franchise once his Mets tenure ends) or he can become a massive, and I mean cataclysmic failure - the type to set a franchise back 5 years if things go off the rails.
I feel like if they gave him up that's a lot more tolerable to swallow than Syndergaard.
Rosario final 2 months of the season OPS+ over 100 5 homers, 10 doubles 2 triples with 15 steals.
What's your take, did he turn a corner or just get hot?
he was the best hitter on the US team in the Japan series after the season. he showed true signs of life
"Nearly three months ago, we ran a piece titled "2018's Most Improved Hitters." It wasn't just based on early-season stat lines; it was looking at under-the-hood factors like improved hard-hit rate or decreased strikeouts. Most of the names made plenty of sense, like Mookie Betts, Xander Bogaerts and Mitch Haniger. Sometimes it's not hard to see improvement.
One name that didn't make sense on that Top 10 was Amed Rosario. At the time, he was hitting .251/.284/.366, a line that was 25 percent worse than the Major League average. If the underlying peripherals were trying to tell us a breakout was coming for Rosario, it was a difficult one to see. And all these months later, he's hitting all of .249/.290/.372, which is to say ... nearly the same below-average line he had back in June.
Rosario's breakout hasn't officially arrived yet, but the factors that made him pop up on our list back in June haven't changed -- and we might just be finally seeing the beginnings of the production that the improved underlying metrics hinted at." Link - ( New Window )
Rosario and Dunn in one off-season and maybe even Thor he's got a giant set of balls.
because it means he's putting all his chips in to the center of the table and calling everyone's bluff.
he could become a Mets hero and basically pick his career path (with just about any franchise once his Mets tenure ends) or he can become a massive, and I mean cataclysmic failure - the type to set a franchise back 5 years if things go off the rails.
Jon Heyman
Verified account @JonHeyman
50s51 seconds ago
Mets said very aggressive on Realmuto. Debate in room now about whether to give up coveted SS Rosario in package or top SP Syndergaard. Mets didnt want to open SS hole but that hasnt been ruled out. Plus, while NYY thing is less a hurdle now, 3 way deals are still complicated
Rosario and Dunn in one off-season and maybe even Thor he's got a giant set of balls.
because it means he's putting all his chips in to the center of the table and calling everyone's bluff.
he could become a Mets hero and basically pick his career path (with just about any franchise once his Mets tenure ends) or he can become a massive, and I mean cataclysmic failure - the type to set a franchise back 5 years if things go off the rails.
Billy King-ish.
Or Dave Dombrowski-ish if you want a positive example.
I mean - Billy King took the Nets from last to a 2nd rd playoff team
was that worth it? If Deron Williams wasn't a total turd and if he didn't include all the pick swaps with the celtics it might have been.
The thing is Brodie is talking about dealing future cornerstones and nothing that's coming back in return is dramatically better than whats available via free agency.
Rosario and Dunn in one off-season and maybe even Thor he's got a giant set of balls.
because it means he's putting all his chips in to the center of the table and calling everyone's bluff.
he could become a Mets hero and basically pick his career path (with just about any franchise once his Mets tenure ends) or he can become a massive, and I mean cataclysmic failure - the type to set a franchise back 5 years if things go off the rails.
Billy King-ish.
Or Dave Dombrowski-ish if you want a positive example.
2 things:
1- Dombrowski was also able to spend big money bringing in Price and Martinez.
2- Dombrowski didn't trade too many young players who were already breaking into the MLB and performing. Had he dealt Betts, Bogoerts, Benitendi, Bradley, etc that strategy wouldn't look great. Moncada was like 19 when he was traded, Kopech was pretty far off too, etc.
Rosario, Thor, Nimmo, Conforto (who have all been in various rumors) IMO are much more the former than the latter. Kelenic/Dunn are more the types of guys Dombrowski traded.
I guess the Astros are content to roll with Chirinos
Rosario and Dunn in one off-season and maybe even Thor he's got a giant set of balls.
because it means he's putting all his chips in to the center of the table and calling everyone's bluff.
he could become a Mets hero and basically pick his career path (with just about any franchise once his Mets tenure ends) or he can become a massive, and I mean cataclysmic failure - the type to set a franchise back 5 years if things go off the rails.
Billy King-ish.
Or Dave Dombrowski-ish if you want a positive example.
2 things:
1- Dombrowski was also able to spend big money bringing in Price and Martinez.
2- Dombrowski didn't trade too many young players who were already breaking into the MLB and performing. Had he dealt Betts, Bogoerts, Benitendi, Bradley, etc that strategy wouldn't look great. Moncada was like 19 when he was traded, Kopech was pretty far off too, etc.
Rosario, Thor, Nimmo, Conforto (who have all been in various rumors) IMO are much more the former than the latter. Kelenic/Dunn are more the types of guys Dombrowski traded.
Red Sox got their ring, now their owners will want to keep their money. Odds are Sale will end up on the shelf at some point in 2019. And they aren't replicating their 2018 production. Boston is not repeating next year so bring the costs down now.
RE: I guess the Astros are content to roll with Chirinos
But winners get copied. The Sawx are making it cool to be a contender with absolute garbage behind the plate.
Well that's my point basically. Why not copy what the winners do? Realmuto isn't some massive need. The best teams aren't going bonkers for him. The Mets are.
He traded for Sale, Thornburg, Nunez, and other minor players, but it hurt their farm system
but my point is he doesn't give a F about the farm if the major league team is winning. If the major league team didn't win and the prospects excelled the backlsh would have likely lost him his job.
In DET he traded for:
Dontrelle Willis and Miggy
Renteria
Scherzer
Fister
Anibal Sanchez
Kinsler
Soria
Price
Cespedes
and in Florida he also traded to acquire veterans
Point is some of those trades included major leaguers for major leaguers, but most included prospects.
But winners get copied. The Sawx are making it cool to be a contender with absolute garbage behind the plate.
Not just them, the Astros the year before, the Cubs the year before, and you can probably keep looking back. Yadi Molina and Posey the exceptions, but it's true, you don't need Piazza or Yogi Berra @ catcher to win a WS in this era.
But winners get copied. The Sawx are making it cool to be a contender with absolute garbage behind the plate.
Well that's my point basically. Why not copy what the winners do? Realmuto isn't some massive need. The best teams aren't going bonkers for him. The Brody is.
I thought a lot of what motivated the Tigers to be so aggressive
which involved margot when he was in AA. My point was that in boston he didn't trade any of his blue chip young position players and he was able to sign 9 digit free agent contracts. BVW seems to be very willing to discuss the former and hasn't even taken meetings with the free agents who would fit the latter.
relative to simply signing a free agent catcher, or getting Cervelli for a fraction of the price.
Rosario's upside is still really big.
It would certainly sting but Realmuto is the best catcher available and hes also the youngest. Grandal could also cost as much as 20 AAV (and the 2nd pick and pool money) and he also has some warts (better from the left side, streaky, passed balls, etc.). If Mets spend that saved money on more players (similar to the Cano deal) I can probably get on board.
Sign Iglesias as a stopgap until Gimenez arrives. Also then extend Realmuto.
Im out on trading Thor 100%.
If they trade Rosario, totally agree on Iglesias. I'm constantly surprised he isn't a more in demand player. But I would not trade Rosario.
I've come around that my top catcher option is Cervelli. 1 year deal, reasonable salary, can do a little bit of everything, shouldn't cost too much. IMO Cervelli + Rosario > Realmuto + Iglesias both on the field and on the payroll.
is almost no change Iglesias signs a budget friendly 1 year deal. He likely gets 3 years. He's 29 in January, he's not a "fill in for a year" type at this stage. 2.5 fWAR in 2018. Steamer has him above average in 2019 again over a full-season.
Yeah.. why not? He had a 83 wRC+ as recently as 2017. Its not like Rosarios 2018 is some huge bar to clear. Heck, I could probably live with Guillorme temporarily in the 8th spot. Love Rosarios upside but I could see the logic there. All Im saying.
the marlins know they have to deal him now. Start a faux NY bidding war in the press and hope 1 of the 15 teams interested eventually puts 1 of their young controllable players on the table (Rosario, Andujar, Nimmo, etc).
I'd tell them to go scratch and just trade for Cervelli. Or sign Grandal. Realmuto is not good enough to be worth the holding up whatever the backup plans are.
RE: I know capone is just speculating but i think he's 100% right
the marlins know they have to deal him now. Start a faux NY bidding war in the press and hope 1 of the 15 teams interested eventually puts 1 of their young controllable players on the table (Rosario, Andujar, Nimmo, etc).
I'd tell them to go scratch and just trade for Cervelli. Or sign Grandal. Realmuto is not good enough to be worth the holding up whatever the backup plans are.
The back up plan would be actually talking to free agents....
but I'd do more than that - just pull the trigger on plan B and move on. If Realmuto's cost is more than a 2nd round comp pick (it is) it's not worth it. Over the next 4 years he will likely make more money than Grandal. As great as his 2 year contract looks right now, years 3+ are going to be very expensive. And if you trade a lot for him you don't let him walk after 2 years.
Seems the #Mets are getting the ultimatum from the #Marlins- send Thor to the #Yankees or well send Realmuto to one of your other rivals. Not MIAs job to do NYM any favors here. . - ( New Window )
and get Realmuto, couldn't the Yankees and Mets still trade (and not involve Miami).
Mets: Trade Thor to the Yankees.
Yankees: Trade Frasier, Andujar and...Gary Sanchez!
Sanchez is a power right hand hitter with legit power, younger than Realmuto, former all star, and unlimited potential.
Yes, Cashman has said he's off limits, but who knows? The Yankees can replace his production with Harper or Machado, and get by with light hitting defensive catchers. Won't happen, but it would be interesting to see Gary in the middle of the Met's lineup, eh?
Sounding like there's some momentum towards Grandal
good news if true. I'd probably still prefer Cervelli since he's a little less $ but Grandal is a very good player. Would be a very very solid FA pickup and worth the 2nd round pick.
Could Sanchez be a hidden ingredient in all of this?
I wonder if what's driving this is the Marlins desire for Sanchez, the Mets desire for Realmuto, and the Yankees desire for a top-of-rotation starter (Syndergaard). The Yankees would have to add more pieces and the Mets would receive more pieces, but the headliners would be Realmuto, Thor, and Sanchez.
Of course that leaves the Yankees without a catcher, but that would be the next step, find themselves the best defensive catcher on the market and bat him 9th in the order.
and get Realmuto, couldn't the Yankees and Mets still trade (and not involve Miami).
Mets: Trade Thor to the Yankees.
Yankees: Trade Frasier, Andujar and...Gary Sanchez!
Sanchez is a power right hand hitter with legit power, younger than Realmuto, former all star, and unlimited potential.
Yes, Cashman has said he's off limits, but who knows? The Yankees can replace his production with Harper or Machado, and get by with light hitting defensive catchers. Won't happen, but it would be interesting to see Gary in the middle of the Met's lineup, eh?
Sanchez, Andujar and Frazier? Lol no thanks. Two ML hitters?
The Reds are interested in Braves CF Ender Inciarte
and get Realmuto, couldn't the Yankees and Mets still trade (and not involve Miami).
Mets: Trade Thor to the Yankees.
Yankees: Trade Frasier, Andujar and...Gary Sanchez!
As a Mets fan I would like that deal... but probably a hair too much from the Yankees side. Would think Sanchez + Andujar would suffice. Maybe a lesser prospect than Frasier.
and get Realmuto, couldn't the Yankees and Mets still trade (and not involve Miami).
Mets: Trade Thor to the Yankees.
Yankees: Trade Frasier, Andujar and...Gary Sanchez!
As a Mets fan I would like that deal... but probably a hair too much from the Yankees side. Would think Sanchez + Andujar would suffice. Maybe a lesser prospect than Frasier.
Sanchez and Andujar are both young, cost-controlled All-Star caliber hitters. That would be an overpay for NYY. (Although both are less valuable in the NL.)
Forget JT, forget the Marlins and forget Jeter. Tell them to go scratch. I just get the feeling that teams believe they can bully around the Mets. Dont deal Thor or Rosario. Have some faith in your young promising players.
Stop messing around and just sign Grandal. I feel like Brodie likes the big splash and feels he needs to prove himself. This is going to backfire big time if it comes to fruition.
Thor. Not saying they wont because its the Mets, but why on earth do you pull off the cano trade and then to turn around and weaken your rotation. He is a top five pitcher period, they dont grow on trees and you dont trade them for 3rdbasemen who cant field and have inflated power numbers from playing in Yankees stadium.
Thor. Not saying they wont because its the Mets, but why on earth do you pull off the cano trade and then to turn around and weaken your rotation. He is a top five pitcher period, they dont grow on trees and you dont trade them for 3rdbasemen who cant field and have inflated power numbers from playing in Yankees stadium.
Can we please stop calling him Thor? These childish nicknames should be an embarrassment for Mets fans. Whats next? Dark Night? Oh wait...
Forget JT, forget the Marlins and forget Jeter. Tell them to go scratch. I just get the feeling that teams believe they can bully around the Mets. Dont deal Thor or Rosario. Have some faith in your young promising players.
Stop messing around and just sign Grandal. I feel like Brodie likes the big splash and feels he needs to prove himself. This is going to backfire big time if it comes to fruition.
I dont know if teams are bullying the Mets, I think its more about playing off the Mets desperation to make moves. The Mets are the aggressor, they be dumb not to play off that.
Forget JT, forget the Marlins and forget Jeter. Tell them to go scratch. I just get the feeling that teams believe they can bully around the Mets. Dont deal Thor or Rosario. Have some faith in your young promising players.
Stop messing around and just sign Grandal. I feel like Brodie likes the big splash and feels he needs to prove himself. This is going to backfire big time if it comes to fruition.
I dont know if teams are bullying the Mets, I think its more about playing off the Mets desperation to make moves. The Mets are the aggressor, they be dumb not to play off that.
Realmuto makes the batting order better and improves the defense, but giving up Thor makes the starting pitching much weaker, and starting pitching generally wins championships
Mets need to make a big signing if they really want to improve. So far BVW has just sold off minor league talent to get major league talent but he has not improved the total amount of talent in the organization. In fact, one could argue he has reduced it.
They need to add a Ramos/Cervelli and another top-shelf reliever.
RE: RE: I think people are criminally under rating
Forget JT, forget the Marlins and forget Jeter. Tell them to go scratch. I just get the feeling that teams believe they can bully around the Mets. Dont deal Thor or Rosario. Have some faith in your young promising players.
Stop messing around and just sign Grandal. I feel like Brodie likes the big splash and feels he needs to prove himself. This is going to backfire big time if it comes to fruition.
I agree with this. I hope BVW doesn't feel some need to justify his job with "creativity". I also hope he's not so hamstrung by payroll that he has no choice.
Sign Pollack, 2 of Miller/Britton/Robertson/Ottavino, and Grandal. Let's go.
Thor. Not saying they wont because its the Mets, but why on earth do you pull off the cano trade and then to turn around and weaken your rotation. He is a top five pitcher period, they dont grow on trees and you dont trade them for 3rdbasemen who cant field and have inflated power numbers from playing in Yankees stadium.
Can we please stop calling him Thor? These childish nicknames should be an embarrassment for Mets fans. Whats next? Dark Night? Oh wait...
Godzilla, Babe, Scooter, Gator/Lousiana Lightning, Sweet Lou, El Duque... YOGI, Donnie Baseball, Mr. October... you sure?
Thor. Not saying they wont because its the Mets, but why on earth do you pull off the cano trade and then to turn around and weaken your rotation. He is a top five pitcher period, they dont grow on trees and you dont trade them for 3rdbasemen who cant field and have inflated power numbers from playing in Yankees stadium.
Can we please stop calling him Thor? These childish nicknames should be an embarrassment for Mets fans. Whats next? Dark Night? Oh wait...
Godzilla, Babe, Scooter, Gator/Lousiana Lightning, Sweet Lou, El Duque... YOGI, Donnie Baseball, Mr. October... you sure?
Don't forget Goose, Moose, Rocket, Mo, The Mick, Arod, etc, etc. but typing Thor instead of Syndergaard some guy has a hair across his ass about.
for Realmuto is not a good trade at all. You open up a SS hole and weaken your middle of the field defense. Nimmo also has genuine value even if he might only be a 3rd-4th OF.
Rosarios offensive upside is to be determined but hes showing signs theres more to come for sure.
el Sherman
✔
@Joelsherman1
Key internal question #Mets are mulling: will top SS prospect Andres Giminez be ready for MLB later this season or 2020 making it more palatable to use Rosario to try to land Realmuto, plug short term with a Galvis/Iglesias defender. #Marlins
He doesn't cost you prospects or good young players like Rosario.
Realmuto another situation where BVW may be letting his relationship with a former client cloud his judgement
Well you do give up the second pick and pool money. If you believe Shecky (I do) this Realmuto hard on is coming from Jeff and he's wanted him for more than a year now. If I had to guess, BVW is exhausting every scenario to make his new boss happy.
If the Mets strike out on Pollock, the Padres make for a strong trade partner in terms of CF options to pair with Lagares. Jankowski and Cordero in particular make sense #Mets
YPost_Mets
Van Wagenen was asked if the Mets could address catcher, reliever and outfielder - without a trade - all through free agency, if needed: "Free agents have a variety of price points," he said. "So if we were to add all through free agency, we have the ability to do that."
RE: RE: I think people are criminally under rating
Thor. Not saying they wont because its the Mets, but why on earth do you pull off the cano trade and then to turn around and weaken your rotation. He is a top five pitcher period, they dont grow on trees and you dont trade them for 3rdbasemen who cant field and have inflated power numbers from playing in Yankees stadium.
Can we please stop calling him Thor? These childish nicknames should be an embarrassment for Mets fans. Whats next? Dark Night? Oh wait...
Thor. Not saying they wont because its the Mets, but why on earth do you pull off the cano trade and then to turn around and weaken your rotation. He is a top five pitcher period, they dont grow on trees and you dont trade them for 3rdbasemen who cant field and have inflated power numbers from playing in Yankees stadium.
OK, he had 15 errors and a .948 fielding percentage. But Andujar is very athletic and will improve.
But more to the point. You don't have that quite right about Andujar's bat. He is a line drive hitter with tremendous gap power. Last season, he had 47 doubles -- tied for third highest in the major leagues. And several of his 27 tatters were line drives as well.
My overwhelming preference is for the Mets to keep hold of Noah Syndergaard and for the Yanks to keep Andujar. But if the Mets somehow end up with Miguel Andujar, he will be their best hitter, Yankee Stadium or no Yankee Stadium.
RE: RE: I think people are criminally under rating
Thor. Not saying they wont because its the Mets, but why on earth do you pull off the cano trade and then to turn around and weaken your rotation. He is a top five pitcher period, they dont grow on trees and you dont trade them for 3rdbasemen who cant field and have inflated power numbers from playing in Yankees stadium.
OK, he had 15 errors and a .948 fielding percentage. But Andujar is very athletic and will improve.
But more to the point. You don't have that quite right about Andujar's bat. He is a line drive hitter with tremendous gap power. Last season, he had 47 doubles -- tied for third highest in the major leagues. And several of his 27 tatters were line drives as well.
My overwhelming preference is for the Mets to keep hold of Noah Syndergaard and for the Yanks to keep Andujar. But if the Mets somehow end up with Miguel Andujar, he will be their best hitter, Yankee Stadium or no Yankee Stadium.
Until he falls off a cliff (which can happen at any time). Robinson Cano is a better hitter than Miguel Andujar and it's not particularly close. Even in 2018 Cano out hit Andujar. 136 wRC+ for Cano, Andujar 128. Steamer projects Andujar for 114 in 2019 and Cano 118. Again, Cano can fall off tomorrow but until he does he'd be the best hitter on the Mets if they added Andujar
last 3 seasons 128 wRC+. 27 players in baseball have been better by wRC+. That's not a knock on Andujar at all but unless/until he has a big 2019 he's not a "better" hitter than a borderline HOF who is still hitting to the tune of a top 30 player.
But more to the point. You don't have that quite right about Andujar's bat. He is a line drive hitter with tremendous gap power. Last season, he had 47 doubles -- tied for third highest in the major leagues. And several of his 27 tatters were line drives as well.
My overwhelming preference is for the Mets to keep hold of Noah Syndergaard and for the Yanks to keep Andujar. But if the Mets somehow end up with Miguel Andujar, he will be their best hitter, Yankee Stadium or no Yankee Stadium.
This is a great point. He wasn't called Miggy Mantle for nothing. Andujar is the real deal in the batter's box. He makes lots of contact (16% k rate) and it is almost always solid contact. Many of those doubles were off the wall. Yes, he swings at too many balls (so did Yogi amd Vlad) so he can improve there and be more selective. If he cuts back at swinging at bad balls, he will be a .300 hitter with 30 hr capability. Last year he had 606 plate appearances, so the league had enough time to find his weak spots and adjust.
But just as real is his throwing, not so much fielding. He catches the ball, but has bad footwork and takes too much time to throw.
RE: RE: RE: I think people are criminally under rating
Thor. Not saying they wont because its the Mets, but why on earth do you pull off the cano trade and then to turn around and weaken your rotation. He is a top five pitcher period, they dont grow on trees and you dont trade them for 3rdbasemen who cant field and have inflated power numbers from playing in Yankees stadium.
OK, he had 15 errors and a .948 fielding percentage. But Andujar is very athletic and will improve.
But more to the point. You don't have that quite right about Andujar's bat. He is a line drive hitter with tremendous gap power. Last season, he had 47 doubles -- tied for third highest in the major leagues. And several of his 27 tatters were line drives as well.
My overwhelming preference is for the Mets to keep hold of Noah Syndergaard and for the Yanks to keep Andujar. But if the Mets somehow end up with Miguel Andujar, he will be their best hitter, Yankee Stadium or no Yankee Stadium.
Until he falls off a cliff (which can happen at any time). Robinson Cano is a better hitter than Miguel Andujar and it's not particularly close. Even in 2018 Cano out hit Andujar. 136 wRC+ for Cano, Andujar 128. Steamer projects Andujar for 114 in 2019 and Cano 118. Again, Cano can fall off tomorrow but until he does he'd be the best hitter on the Mets if they added Andujar
Definitely you can argue that Cano is still the better hitter, but that of course was hardly the main point of my response to bhill410. That is, Andujar is a significant gap hitter.
I was merely commenting on his final point, wasn't crapping on Andujar. One is 36 so he could fall off in 2019 and the other could break out further but until that happens Cano is the better hitter. Steamer projects Cano to be better in 2019 too, again I didn't even want the Mets to trade for him but the guy still hits at a very high level.
I was merely commenting on his final point, wasn't crapping on Andujar. One is 36 so he could fall off in 2019 and the other could break out further but until that happens Cano is the better hitter. Steamer projects Cano to be better in 2019 too, again I didn't even want the Mets to trade for him but the guy still hits at a very high level.
What it really means is that Cano has a steady, sterling track record over many seasons and the other is coming off his rookie season. I agree, as of right now, Cano is the better hitter. Until Andujar completes next season like the last one, Cano will be the better hitter(or Robbie crashes). Cano is an All Star quality player, still. But Andujar is 23, and never had a true slump of any sort last season. Teams may find his weak spot, but after 600 PAs last season, they didn't.
I think Andujar is the real deal at the plate.
"feeling" is that Machado will be a Yankee and Harper a Dodger.
I wonder if the Yankees are pretty much frozen in what they want to do until Machado's decision. If/when they agree to Machado, then a whole number of things happen around Andujar to be traded and frees everything up. Cashman and pretty much said he's not in on Harper, and he rarely "lies" directly like that in the press.
I think the reason so much is quiet is that Machado and Harper are the dominoes that everything else will fall once they move.
"feeling" is that Machado will be a Yankee and Harper a Dodger.
I wonder if the Yankees are pretty much frozen in what they want to do until Machado's decision. If/when they agree to Machado, then a whole number of things happen around Andujar to be traded and frees everything up. Cashman and pretty much said he's not in on Harper, and he rarely "lies" directly like that in the press.
I think the reason so much is quiet is that Machado and Harper are the dominoes that everything else will fall once they move.
According to John Heyman, those 2 arent signing until January. The reason being neither wants to sign first only to have the other get more $$. Its a stare down to see who blinks first.
"feeling" is that Machado will be a Yankee and Harper a Dodger.
I wonder if the Yankees are pretty much frozen in what they want to do until Machado's decision. If/when they agree to Machado, then a whole number of things happen around Andujar to be traded and frees everything up. Cashman and pretty much said he's not in on Harper, and he rarely "lies" directly like that in the press.
I think the reason so much is quiet is that Machado and Harper are the dominoes that everything else will fall once they move.
According to John Heyman, those 2 arent signing until January. The reason being neither wants to sign first only to have the other get more $$. Its a stare down to see who blinks first.
suspect the Yankees sign him but Ottavino is a very intriguing addition. He and Robertson are my top 2 wants in the pen for the Mets.
I think he's a stud and whoever signs him is going to get a lights out reliever. Mets are supposedly interested in him too. Hopefully Brodie has enough time to focus on some realistic upgrades rather than just blockbuster headline trades.
suspect the Yankees sign him but Ottavino is a very intriguing addition. He and Robertson are my top 2 wants in the pen for the Mets.
I think he's a stud and whoever signs him is going to get a lights out reliever. Mets are supposedly interested in him too. Hopefully Brodie has enough time to focus on some realistic upgrades rather than just blockbuster headline trades.
There is a false narrative floating around that he has only had one season of success. Yes, 2018 was clearly his best season, however from 2013-2016 Ottavino over 170 games had a 2.84 era, had a poor 2017, reinvented himself with high speed cameras (really interesting stuff) and had a monster year. Even if he's a mix between 2018 and the pitcher he was 2013-2016 that's a big time RP in front of Diaz.
with Ottavino. He was really hyped preseason that year and things didn't work out. Like you're saying, if you look at his entire body of work, and his most recent season, he looks like a good be to be lights out.
I'd prefer him to Miller. Miller also has the track record, but will be 34 next season and is coming off a year where he showed some real decline. Give me the younger guy who pitched at Coors if the costs are equal.
with Ottavino. He was really hyped preseason that year and things didn't work out. Like you're saying, if you look at his entire body of work, and his most recent season, he looks like a good be to be lights out.
I'd prefer him to Miller. Miller also has the track record, but will be 34 next season and is coming off a year where he showed some real decline. Give me the younger guy who pitched at Coors if the costs are equal.
I too would take Ottavino over Miller. I actually have Miller 3rd. I still like Robertson a lot.
They held tight to a 5 year offer on Corbin, not wanting a 6th year when he'll be 34. But they're ok with a third year on Happ when he'll be 38? He's a good pitcher though so I don't hate it. Just seems odd. Hopefully this doesn't mean they're out of the trade market for a SP though. Andujar for pitching and sign Machado makes too much sense.
They held tight to a 5 year offer on Corbin, not wanting a 6th year when he'll be 34. But they're ok with a third year on Happ when he'll be 38? He's a good pitcher though so I don't hate it. Just seems odd. Hopefully this doesn't mean they're out of the trade market for a SP though. Andujar for pitching and sign Machado makes too much sense.
They probably aren't paying Haap nearly as much as they would have paid Corbin.
it's lower risk. We know Happ will at least be solid for a season or two given his track record in the AL East. If his third year is rough, it's better than finding out early on that Corbin can't hack it and there's still five seasons left. But I don't think that would have happened. Cashman said the other day Corbin was the best available. Let's go get the best players, we're the damn Yankees.
Spent 90 million last off-season on older and not very good players. I know its early but why do they seem so relcuctant to spend this offseason on a better crop of FAs?
And just once I want a Mets beat writer to press Jeff Wilpon on his low budget.
@jaseidler
57m57 minutes ago
More Jarrett Seidler Retweeted Jon Heyman
heres the thing: the actual strong defender here is Grandal but based on who is calling shots I am pretty sure theyre going to think its Maldonado, who was that but probably isnt anymore, but still has the 8 arm that the old baseball man crew thinks is the key to catching
than what we have in-house (Steamer projects both Plawecki and D'arnaud to be better in 2019).
Why would the even Mets consider signing him? He seems like the type that would start in AAA and then get called up if you had multiple injuries. Would be pretty awful to start the season with him as our opening day Catcher.
Met question re: Realmuto - what would your top offer be?
We've spent a lot of time lamenting the insane rumors, but obviously everyone else in baseball has too or else Miami would have traded him already. It's also kind of forced everyone to bypass the fact that Realmuto would be a good addition. If it were this easy it would probably be done already, but my top offer would be around Alonso.
Miami has nothing at 1B, want MLB ready, and I can't imagine there are too many guys on the top 100 lists more likely to have an impact next year than him. I'm sure they'd need another big piece and I'd probably be willing to include Mauricio too since he's so far away and such a crapshoot right now. I doubt they care much about Plawecki or Lugo but both are cheap and easy pieces to add - and from a war standpoint both are close to above replacement level.
The minor league system would obviously be gutted, but in doing so they've added 1 of the best catchers in baseball at a below market price the next 2 years. At 1B they can give Dom 1 more shot in tandem with Frazier. It's also opens up a move for Cano sooner if necessary.
With Realmuto they would no longer need to spend big money on a CF, they could just add a depth CF. Gives them enough money remaining for 2 big pieces in the BP. They also keep their 2nd round pick in this scenario which will hopefully allow them to also add another Vientos/Alonso/SWR type prospect in the draft. And down the line they can QO Realmuto and at least recoup a high pick if he bolts in 2 years.
pounce now on Grandal. Other than the age difference there is very, very little that separates him and Realmuto and Grandal is the superior defender. He's the guy. Brodie and Jeff want to show it's a new era. Ante up, sign the best option.
in a worst case scenario for Grandal... lets say Russell Martin-esque. The Jays gave Martin 5 for 82 (16.4 per) , through 4 he's been worth 64 million.... 16 million. Lets assume Martin this year is not worth his salary, or near it... the Jays still had 4 years at "market value" overall. Who wouldn't sign for that? Martin is also turning 36 so odds are Grandal ages a bit more gracefully.
and Ottavino or Robertson, I'd still want them to spend more, but would feel good overall about the offseason and optimistic about 2019. Wouldn't hate on them for being cheap with the OF.
and Ottavino or Robertson, I'd still want them to spend more, but would feel good overall about the offseason and optimistic about 2019. Wouldn't hate on them for being cheap with the OF.
Agreed. If they make 3 additions like that in addition to what they've done it's a good offseason. That team would have a legitimate shot at 90 wins.
No concern that he was so awful in the playoffs that the Dodgers benched him, have zero interest in retaining him and that he's a 100 hitter in about 80 post season ABs? I don't watch the Dodgers often enough to have an opinion just seems like a some red flags. I like Cervelli for the Mets I think he's underrated but his health is always an issue. What are your thoughts on Ramos? The Mets met with him this week.
that Mets would be willing to do Nimmo/Rosario/Peterson for Realmuto but Marlins want Conforto instead of Nimmo.
I wouldn't do the Mets offer much less the Marlins offer. Massive overpay for 2 years. Don't do it.
Wow talk about getting skull fucked if that's what they are willing to give up. You can see why all these teams want to trade with the Mets cause they know they can take advantage.
BVW looking like a horrible hire so far. Only thing that looks good is the front office signings.
No concern that he was so awful in the playoffs that the Dodgers benched him, have zero interest in retaining him and that he's a 100 hitter in about 80 post season ABs? I don't watch the Dodgers often enough to have an opinion just seems like a some red flags. I like Cervelli for the Mets I think he's underrated but his health is always an issue. What are your thoughts on Ramos? The Mets met with him this week.
None. You're looking at 92 ab's in the playoffs career. What's the logical argument? He forgot how to play? One swing where he hits a big HR and nobody remembers what he did previously. The Dodgers offered him the QO so pretty clearly they were okay with him accepting and coming back at nearly 18 million.
a single sane Mets fan would sign for an off-season where they unload Kelenic, Nimmo, Rosario, Peterson and Dunn and have 36 year old Cano, a VERY good closer and 2 years of JT Realmuto to show for it. That would leave them having to fill SS, add at least 1 OF and their minor league system bare bones. I'd be sick, I'd legit be done with the Mets with the Wilpons as owners. I wouldn't switch to another team just follow the sports vs. caring about the Mets. People would be laughing at the Mets with such a trade. The Cano deal was polarizing but made some sense. This would be absurd. Truly, it would make the Mets a laughingstock.
I wouldn't. Not with the available FA OF's. They met with Adam Jones. Do you realize how bad he's been? This team is going to roll with Freddy Galvis, Adam Jones and a P at 3/9 spots + an unproven Alonso, Juan Lagares and Todd Frazier? That's a nice 80 win squad.
I wouldn't. Not with the available FA OF's. They met with Adam Jones. Do you realize how bad he's been? This team is going to roll with Freddy Galvis, Adam Jones and a P at 3/9 spots + an unproven Alonso, Juan Lagares and Todd Frazier? That's a nice 80 win squad.
Joel Sherman
#Marlins GM Mike Hill said slow process on Realmuto is because Mia has been trying to eliminate clubs, narrow field, but interest is so strong that it has been hard to do that.
Plus the factor that BVW seems to be willing to vastly overpay.
tells me we are hearing an absolute ton from the Marlins office trying to drum up interest in Realmuto. They realize they did a horrible job selling off pieces last year that they have gone overboard in trying to do so this year. That latest report sounds like a 1920's used car salesman; "we're trying to narrow down the list and focus on making a deal, but geez; everybody wants him so what could ya do?". The rumored packages are so far fetched anyone should be able to see right through which side the source is for all this mis-information.
@jaseidler
41m41 minutes ago
More
Realmuto, Adam Jones, and one of the shortstops being bandied about in place of Plawecki/TDA, Nimmo, and Rosario is a multiwin *2019* downgrade and completely fucked up for financials and future
tells me we are hearing an absolute ton from the Marlins office trying to drum up interest in Realmuto. They realize they did a horrible job selling off pieces last year that they have gone overboard in trying to do so this year. That latest report sounds like a 1920's used car salesman; "we're trying to narrow down the list and focus on making a deal, but geez; everybody wants him so what could ya do?". The rumored packages are so far fetched anyone should be able to see right through which side the source is for all this mis-information.
Thinking/hoping you are right on this. Rosario/Nimmo+ for realmuto would definitely give me real pause as a Mets fan. Definitely would bail out on my plan seats. I'd be really, really pissed.
If the Mets/Marlins/Yankees are discussing a 3 team trade, why would Sanchez AND Realmuto go to the Mets? Or was Realmuto coming to the Bronx?
Sounds like the Mets and Yankees had talks independent of the Marlins stuff. My guess is the Yankees probably considered an option where they signed Grandal (or traded for Realmuto) and moved Sanchez for someone like Zack Wheeler.
If the Mets/Marlins/Yankees are discussing a 3 team trade, why would Sanchez AND Realmuto go to the Mets? Or was Realmuto coming to the Bronx?
The Yankees were reportedly asking about both Wheeler and Syndergaard. The Mets certainly weren't trading Syndergaard for Sanchez but if the Yankees replaced Sanchez with Grandal (or even Ramos) or traded for Realmuto + Wheeler that certainly would have made the 2019 Yankees better on paper.
No concern that he was so awful in the playoffs that the Dodgers benched him, have zero interest in retaining him and that he's a 100 hitter in about 80 post season ABs? I don't watch the Dodgers often enough to have an opinion just seems like a some red flags. I like Cervelli for the Mets I think he's underrated but his health is always an issue. What are your thoughts on Ramos? The Mets met with him this week.
The Dodgers have Barnes at catcher who was the #1 catcher prospect in baseball a couple of years ago plus they also have two of the top 10 catcher prospects in all of baseball close to being ready. I think that's the reason they are willing to move on from Grandal not because of his poor playoff performance.
sources say there was never a sense the Mets would have felt comfortable sending Syndergaard to the Bronx and that while casual talks were had it was never particularly close. Other Mets pitching was discussed so you're looking at Wheeler, Matz (can't imagine the Yankees like him enough to have it make sense) and maybe Lugo (who would be a sneaky add).
the Mets side I would have moved Wheeler for Sanchez before Morton and Happ were plucked off the market. I'd like to keep Wheeler but I suspect he tests FA. For 2019 and 2020 Sanchez + Morton or Happ would have made the Mets a better team than what they have now. It actually made some sense for both sides. Less so now.
would be an awful deal for NYY. I can't possibly imagine that's what they were kicking around.
I get that Wheeler was tremendously impressive for the second half of last year, but the legend of Zack Wheeler with one year of control has gotten a bit inflated around these parts.
Even coming off of the most nightmarish 25-year old seasons imaginable last year, Sanchez is still one of the top assets in the game at his position when you look at the upside / cost control.
More likely that it was Sanchez as part of a package for Syndergaard.
would be an awful deal for NYY. I can't possibly imagine that's what they were kicking around.
I get that Wheeler was tremendously impressive for the second half of last year, but the legend of Zack Wheeler with one year of control has gotten a bit inflated around these parts.
Even coming off of the most nightmarish 25-year old seasons imaginable last year, Sanchez is still one of the top assets in the game at his position when you look at the upside / cost control.
More likely that it was Sanchez as part of a package for Syndergaard.
Again. Multiple sources say Syndergaard was never truly part of discussions beyond a cursory talk. You're looking at it as 1 for 1. But the Yankees with Grandal/Wheeler are certainly better than just Sanchez and Wheeler is cheap.
Severino, Paxton, Tanaka, Wheeler, Sabathia
C Realmuto/Grandal/Ramos
SS Manny Machado
3b Andujar
2b Torres
LF Stanton
CF Hicks
RF Judge
1b Voit
remove those catchers, remove Wheeler, and sign Morton for 2 years $35M (for the sake of argument, say they'd have had to overpay vs what the Rays got done).
Still loaded. about equally as expensive. and you didn't sell extremely low on Sanchez. and you don't need to pay Wheeler full market value next year in the upside case. Downside cash is Wheeler turned back into a pumpkin and you got even more ass-pounded on that trade than you already thought you did.
Love these discussions, but Wheeler for Sanchez s/u is a non-starter for me, and I don't believe NYY would have come remotely close to doing that. If they did, I'm worried about what dumb shit they actually might do.
is an excellent bounce back candidate. Even his "really bad" season came with a 3.91 FIP. For whatever the reason he's not quite as dynamic as some thought he would be (could be as simple as the height making it easier to pick up) but I suspect he's a solid #3 for someone this season.
actual deal seems unclear, the Dodgers love these crazy deals though.
Ken Rosenthal
Verified account
@Ken_Rosenthal
30m30 minutes ago
More
#Reds, #Dodgers continue to talk. Kemp also part of conversations, sources say. Lots of names, lots of proposals. As noted yesterday, Bailey likely would go back to LAD.
to trade Sanchez for Wheeler. If the plan is to trade Sanchez who costs no money and sign a FA catcher way more than Wheeler would have to come back and not from the Mets.
For 1 year control of Wheeler and 2 years of Realmuto makes little sense unless Mets/Marlins were sending back more talent
Wheeler was one of the best pitchers in baseball since the all star break. Realmuto is one of the best catchers in baseball. And you want more talent for a guy who hit under the Mendoza line and had the most passed balls in either league despite missing significant time with injuries?
RE: RE: Sanchez is under control for 4 more years.
For 1 year control of Wheeler and 2 years of Realmuto makes little sense unless Mets/Marlins were sending back more talent
Wheeler was one of the best pitchers in baseball since the all star break. Realmuto is one of the best catchers in baseball. And you want more talent for a guy who hit under the Mendoza line and had the most passed balls in either league despite missing significant time with injuries?
Youre undervaluing Sanchez here, which is only fair because of his season last year. But it just proves the point that trading Sanchez now, if the Yankees even want to at all, is a ridiculous notion being that his value is so low.
✔
@Joelsherman1
Told that Van Wagenen has multiple scenarios working to try to land Realmuto from #Marlins and the 1 involving #Yankees is not among the strongest.
#Mets discussing multiple two- and three-team scenarios involving Realmuto and others, sources say. Team continues to place premium on their SP; would move Syndergaard only for big return. Tyson Ross signed today for $5.75M. Syndergaard will not cost much more in 2019.
The rumors are definitely real. Is it likely? Probably not. Ill freak the fuck out if we trade Thor to you guys though... lol
Quote:
.
The rumors are definitely real. Is it likely? Probably not. Ill freak the fuck out if we trade Thor to you guys though... lol
Martino says its a possibility as well
. - ( New Window )
How about....
Florial to Mets.
Realmuto to Mets.
Andujar + filler to Marlins
Noah to Yankees
Yankees then sign Machado
Give me a break. Thats still doesnt even scratch the surface. Ill take Judge and we can go from there.
Few have confirmed talks have happened. Who knows if it gets done. Wow
Keeps salary manageable for two years and when you have to extend him Cespedes and Wright are off the books. Either way... No thanks.
Anthony DiComo
✔
@AnthonyDiComo
The Mets have indeed discussed Realmuto scenarios including, but not limited to, a three-team deal that would send Noah Syndergaard to the Yankees. Yet I'd urge you to recall Brodie Van Wagenen's words from earlier today:
"We're not going to create a hole by filling another."
Quote:
I don't get what's so complicated about this. Realmuto is going to cost more than Grandal if you extend him.
Keeps salary manageable for two years and when you have to extend him Cespedes and Wright are off the books. Either way... No thanks.
If you don't extend him now they're paying even bigger in 2 years or losing him for nothing. But either way the salary is secondary, now way should they give up a more valuable player with more control for Realmuto. Trading Syndergaard for Realmuto would be insanity.
Either way gross. And I already see how this thread is going to go. Thor can be had for nothing. Yankees players are untouchable.. Yada yada.
Andy Martino @martinonyc
Source: The Yankees are interested in Mets pitching, not necessarily limited to Syndergaard
The Mets are still in on J.T. Realmuto, and at least one of the ideas on their Winter Meetings white board is a whopper.
Realmuto is also not their only option:https://www.mlb.com/mets/news/mets-discuss-jt-realmuto-trade-with-marlins/c-301667954
I forgot Realmuto to Mets. I know I am asking too much.
Wheeler to Yanks
Realmuto to Mets
Prospects to Marlins
Wheeler to Yanks
Realmuto to Mets
Prospects to Marlins
I still don't like it. Sign Ramos and Ill keep my ace.
Tim Healey
✔
@timbhealey
Mets & Yankees have talked about versions of a three-way deal involving Marlins that would send Realmuto to the Mets & Syndergaard to the Yankees, sources confirm.
A deal is not close, and frankly seems pretty unlikely.
But Brodie Van Wagenen is clearly willing to be creative.
✔
@MaxWildstein
Source: Prospects being floated in a possible three-team trade involving #Mets, #Marlins by #Yankees are Clint Frazier, Jonathan Loaisiga, Mike King, Chance Adams, and Sonny Gray. It is still pretty early in process from vibe that Im getting. Theres smoke, tho.
Verified account
@MaxWildstein
30m30 minutes ago
More
Also have heard that the #Mets have asked #Yankees about Miguel Andujar, who NYYs been unwilling to discuss in trade talks. We will see if this 3-team trade rumor becomes a thing in end.
✔
@MattEhalt
Mets and league sources have said Miami wants a haul that includes major-league talent and top prospects. And there's though they don't want to deal inside the division. It's not going to be cheap.
I will tell you this, if the Mets trade Noah Syndergaard, a Norse God, to the muthafuckin' Yankees, then Mets fans will watch as Thor wins MULTIPLE World Series titles in the Bronx. Noah is special. You do not trade this franchise pitcher for J.T. Realmuto. The fact of the matter is that an ace like Thor is way, WAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than the difference between Realmuto and a Wilson Ramos signing.
And I'll end by saying, FUCK THE WILPONS FOR BEING SUCH CHEAP FUCKING OWNERS THAT WON'T JUST GO ALL IN ON A WINNER IN QUEENS. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKKCKKKKKKK YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. I feel better now.
Source: Noah Syndergaard to Yankees is a real possibility but there are 10 other scenarios Mets are considering
Career half year actually. Very mediocre second half.
And when you're only playing 125 games for the full year, a hot half year is a really small sample.
Similarities are striking.
Yankees would obviously have to give up an awful lot to make this deal. Andujar & Florial just to start. Would I make such a deal? Yes but I'd much rather try to trade for Kluber but it seems the Dodgers w/an offer of Verdugo,have the inside track.
Syndergaard is cost-controlled until 2022 & this new Yankee management mindset seems to be wanting to stay under the cap(Prove me wrong Cash & sign Machado!) & using your young players to secure needs in trades seems to be Cashman's priority. From a Mets fan's perspective,I would think they need 2 pieces,Andujar & Realmuto to make this trade,while the Marlins get Florial & other Yankee prospects.
However,once all parties wake up from their naps,they may look at this as too volatile.Fun to think about as a fan & if it did happen,would make baseball in New York even more interesting!
Similarities are striking.
+1000 DON'T TRADE SYNDERGAARD!!! The mets are not in a position to trade, they need to add players via FA, just cet a CF and a C and they will be fine, don't get stupid!
Yankees would obviously have to give up an awful lot to make this deal. Andujar & Florial just to start. Would I make such a deal? Yes but I'd much rather try to trade for Kluber but it seems the Dodgers w/an offer of Verdugo,have the inside track.
Syndergaard is cost-controlled until 2022 & this new Yankee management mindset seems to be wanting to stay under the cap(Prove me wrong Cash & sign Machado!) & using your young players to secure needs in trades seems to be Cashman's priority. From a Mets fan's perspective,I would think they need 2 pieces,Andujar & Realmuto to make this trade,while the Marlins get Florial & other Yankee prospects.
However,once all parties wake up from their naps,they may look at this as too volatile.Fun to think about as a fan & if it did happen,would make baseball in New York even more interesting!
I wonder if the trend towards early involvement of the Pen makes starter innings less of an issue?
Quote:
Syndergaard to the pitching staff.My concerns in adding him is that he's never thrown 200 innings in his career (last year 154 innings) & the Yankees just added Paxton,who also has never thrown 200 innings (career high 160 innings last year) so although there is no question about either's stuff, there would be questions about their durability.
Yankees would obviously have to give up an awful lot to make this deal. Andujar & Florial just to start. Would I make such a deal? Yes but I'd much rather try to trade for Kluber but it seems the Dodgers w/an offer of Verdugo,have the inside track.
Syndergaard is cost-controlled until 2022 & this new Yankee management mindset seems to be wanting to stay under the cap(Prove me wrong Cash & sign Machado!) & using your young players to secure needs in trades seems to be Cashman's priority. From a Mets fan's perspective,I would think they need 2 pieces,Andujar & Realmuto to make this trade,while the Marlins get Florial & other Yankee prospects.
However,once all parties wake up from their naps,they may look at this as too volatile.Fun to think about as a fan & if it did happen,would make baseball in New York even more interesting!
I wonder if the trend towards early involvement of the Pen makes starter innings less of an issue?
To some extent,sure. But for these 2 guys the limitation of their innings was,to some degree,injury related.Plus,if an extended post season is the goal, their inning totals will grow considerably. All that being said,I'd still make the deal (although I'd rather trade for Kluber).
There is no way the Wilpon's would sign off on a trade where Thor is heading to the Bronx. The backlash would put Fred in an early grave.
He actually has had no major injury ever. He missed some time due to a finger issue this past year and he partially tore a lat in another year (muscle injury that fully healed/heals). Zero tendon, ligament, elbow, rotator cuff issues. deGrom easily has a much scarier past.
A big NO on Matz.
A legit MAYBE on Wheeler.
No
✔
@MaxWildstein
Source: Prospects being floated in a possible three-team trade involving #Mets, #Marlins by #Yankees are Clint Frazier, Jonathan Loaisiga, Mike King, Chance Adams, and Sonny Gray. It is still pretty early in process from vibe that Im getting. Theres smoke, tho.
So, Ryan Church Part 2, a pitcher who cant pitch in NY and a bunch of filler. Of course, the Yankees arent willing to part with actual good prospects for Thor. This is just another trade scenario where the Mets will probably lose.
and possibilities, Cashman has this slotted as worth the right amount of attention
I think one of them (Morton or Happ) can replace Thor, but they definitely can't replace Syndergaard.
...some team will have to drop a TON of gold to get Noah Syndergaard. Needs to be at minimum two high-end position players and a budding minor league star. Short of that, don't touch any deal.
But here's a better solution: Just keep Syndergaard and pay the man when the time comes.
Mets fans deserve to see this guy remain a Met.
Period.
ps The Mets would be out of their minds to let him pitch for the Yanks.
I would also assume that the Yankees risk adjust their time when it comes to dealing with Angelos, Wilpon, Pittsburgh and a few others who make decisions out of fear more than conviction or analysis no matter what their FO tells them
This would be similar to Chris Sale, not quite, but similar.
Noah has 3 full season of cost control, so did Sale.
Sale was maybe a little more established, but Syndergaard would be 2 years younger (just about) at the time of the trade.
I would not do this trade in a Realmuto threesome, that confuses things, but I'd trade him (anyone is available for the right price), but I haven't seen anything close to the right price.
Catcher is such a black hole position - the Red Sox won the WS with catchers who had a worse WAR than Plawecki and Mesoraco.
The year before the Astros won with a very pedestrian Brian McCann (and his 13% CS and 1.7 fWAR)
In 2016 Miguel Montero was brutal for the Cubs and so was ancient David Ross.
You don't need Gary Carter or Mike Piazza behind the plate to win in this era. I'd rather simply get the best defensive catcher and just consider any offense gravy.
We may need an OF, how is this Judge guy that the Yankees have?
(I am obviously joking before I get LOL'd to death).
For Mets, trade would be Thor for Realmuto and Hicks. For Yankees, Hicks plus prospects for Thor. Mets would then continue going all-in and deal for Kluber (likely emptying out most of what's left in the farm).
Not sure I'd even like this deal, but we need more than Realmuto coming back if Thor is going out.
Tim Healey
✔
@timbhealey
Mets & Yankees have talked about versions of a three-way deal involving Marlins that would send Realmuto to the Mets & Syndergaard to the Yankees, sources confirm.
A deal is not close, and frankly seems pretty unlikely.
But Brodie Van Wagenen is clearly willing to be creative.
No. Jeff did fly in but the Mets have no plans to meet with Harper. Jeff is there in case they need to sign off on a move. Many believe Miller may happen. Sounds like Britton will not.
It's one thing for them to deal seeming disappointing contracts like Robin Ventura for David Justice (and Ventura turned into an All Star for the Yankees).
Or a late season Frank Tanana trade (for you old timers who remember).
If Thor returns to being an ace and helps the Yankees win a Championship, it will be another gut punch to the Mets. I can't see them doing this.
Yankees will sign Happ. Tool around with Machado, but if they can't work that out, Hal will be just fine and dandy putting the money back in his pocket. He should just sell the team already like it's been rumored. He's not his father, we know that.
Quote:
the "mystery owner" that flew in to meet with Harper?
No. Jeff did fly in but the Mets have no plans to meet with Harper. Jeff is there in case they need to sign off on a move. Many believe Miller may happen. Sounds like Britton will not.
What do you think Miller is looking for $$ wise?
Quote:
In comment 14214232 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
the "mystery owner" that flew in to meet with Harper?
No. Jeff did fly in but the Mets have no plans to meet with Harper. Jeff is there in case they need to sign off on a move. Many believe Miller may happen. Sounds like Britton will not.
What do you think Miller is looking for $$ wise?
Really hard to say. People are suggesting 12-13 per season but Kimbrel is supposedly asking for 6 years so who knows what the FA market brings.
It's one thing for them to deal seeming disappointing contracts like Robin Ventura for David Justice (and Ventura turned into an All Star for the Yankees).
Or a late season Frank Tanana trade (for you old timers who remember).
If Thor returns to being an ace and helps the Yankees win a Championship, it will be another gut punch to the Mets. I can't see them doing this.
Yankees will sign Happ. Tool around with Machado, but if they can't work that out, Hal will be just fine and dandy putting the money back in his pocket. He should just sell the team already like it's been rumored. He's not his father, we know that.
Wheeler for Frazier and Loaisiga.
Yanks get to make sure Wheeler is for real on the cheap before making the decision to pay him next year. His upside is potentially a 1a/2 starter after Severino in Yanks rotation.
Frazier is a very good prospect with some health question marks but still very good upside. Loaisiga allows the Mets to keep some SP depth. Mets focus on paying and building around Jake and Thor.
Businesses are sold and bought by multiplying the recent bottom line x the number of years you think it can be repeated x a risk adjustment up or down. Obviously, in sports there is a "prestige adjustment" some buyers are willing to pay
So if you are going to sell, first you prepare to sell by capturing the potential for future bottom line income and prestige at the most cost managed position you can take.
So are the Yankees being "positioned" for sale? We shall see.
Makes much more sense at Hals age to sell minority percentages and buy them back so you can sell the same franchise more than once or use the profits from the Yankees and then buy back 100% of the YES Network...so who knows? They are advised by Goldman Sachs so all sorts of creative ways to monetize the family's stake are possible
Instead of signing a back end FA starter, sign Wheeler to a 3 year extension w/ AAV just under what Eovoldi got.
If Thor is willing to take a Carrasco type deal now, great, otherwise sign him to an extension next offseason.
Cross fingers that 2/3 are healthy and pitching well heading into October.
I think the Yanks are playing this smart. Make it known that Andujar isn't available and he's a part of the future. Teams want what they can't have. Then make him available in the last minute to save other prospects. Then sign MM(assuming they know his asking price and are in the ballpark).
For the Mets, it doesn't seem like enough for me and I don't understand their willingness to give up Noah when they clearly have a 2-3 year window.
For the Yankees, I know a lot won't agree, but I would be all in on Wheeler too. He will cost a lot less and adds a level of risk, but the reward is higher than Syndergaard, IMO.
I really hope Mets hold onto ZW - he turned a corner last year big time. Matz also showed improvement, but I'm still not quite convinced there and I think he'd get shelled in the AL East anyway so if I am Cashman I pass there.
I agree with this - I applaud his creativity and activity, just hope he also shows good judgement. Seattle move was highly volatile - hoping the next move he makes is less so.
Correct - Wheeler also had an irregular recovery from TJS where he had to get shutdown for a 2nd season. Eovaldi provides a very good comp because he's same age, similarly had injury issues, high end talent, and this year it clicked. I have to believe a good number of the teams who were interested in Eovaldi as a starter would be willing to spend similar $ on Wheeler.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Quote:
I agree about Wheeler, but it's def the injury concerns. Forget the innings, look at what the injuries actually were. NS has had a finger and lat issue compared to Wheeler who has had multiple elbow(and i think shoulder?) injuries.
Correct - Wheeler also had an irregular recovery from TJS where he had to get shutdown for a 2nd season. Eovaldi provides a very good comp because he's same age, similarly had injury issues, high end talent, and this year it clicked. I have to believe a good number of the teams who were interested in Eovaldi as a starter would be willing to spend similar $ on Wheeler.
Yeah but Wheelers sample size was much bigger, no? Wheeler was dominant in the second half of the season, Eovaldi had a great postseason.
Quote:
In comment 14214351 Keith said:
Quote:
I agree about Wheeler, but it's def the injury concerns. Forget the innings, look at what the injuries actually were. NS has had a finger and lat issue compared to Wheeler who has had multiple elbow(and i think shoulder?) injuries.
Correct - Wheeler also had an irregular recovery from TJS where he had to get shutdown for a 2nd season. Eovaldi provides a very good comp because he's same age, similarly had injury issues, high end talent, and this year it clicked. I have to believe a good number of the teams who were interested in Eovaldi as a starter would be willing to spend similar $ on Wheeler.
Yeah but Wheelers sample size was much bigger, no? Wheeler was dominant in the second half of the season, Eovaldi had a great postseason.
Correct - Eovaldi has never been as good as Wheeler was in the 2nd half, but he has been more consistent generally and more productive over his career. The year of control obviously hurts Wheeler's negotiating position at the moment compared to Eovaldi who peaked right before FA, if they were both free Wheeler might be able to get more. But he's not so I think it would be reasonable for both sides to do a similar or slightly lesser AAV deal now.
Quote:
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWARs last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Silly? Is this just a thought you have or do you actually have experience with the two players?
There is a 3 year age gap - but because McNeil went to college they have the same number of pro seasons, and Andujar has more power, but from an OPS+ standpoint the bats are very similar.
McNeil has been injured throughout his minor league career, but he's got a career .818 OPS (6 seasons).
Andujar has a career .754 OPS (7 seasons).
I know - but even pricing in regression his numbers last year still have a claim to being the best defensive catcher available other than Grandal and probably the best thrower - which is generally not that important but with pitchers like Syndergaard who have a major weakness slowing down the running game has amplified value. Trust me, I get that he's not every day starter quality and going to hit 8th and do it poorly. But I think he adds things defensively that help and if he saves money to invest other places vs. making a silly deal for Realmuto so be it.
Quote:
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWARs last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Actually, although a smaller sample, McNeil was a much better hitter than Andujar as well... also both rookies so the flash in the pan stuff works both ways.
Ive never understood this logic. McNeil literally was playing another sport. He started baseball much later than most players. Does starting the game older give you some sort of an advantage Im unaware of?
Quote:
In comment 14214302 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWARs last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Actually, although a smaller sample, McNeil was a much better hitter than Andujar as well... also both rookies so the flash in the pan stuff works both ways.
I like McNeil a lot; he's on my dynasty fbb team and he helped me a ton. He wasn't a better hitter, and he definitely wasn't a "much better" hitter.
McNeil .852 OPS on the back of a .359 BABIP.
Andujar .855 OPS (.316 BABIP).
Not saying anything about the absurd trade ideas and etc. Obviously these intertwined conversations between NYY/NYM have a tendency to get a little bit chippy...we can all help do our part in avoiding that by not saying ridiculous shit.
Andujar wRC+ 128
League and park adjustments matter.
Quote:
In comment 14214302 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWARs last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Silly? Is this just a thought you have or do you actually have experience with the two players?
There is a 3 year age gap - but because McNeil went to college they have the same number of pro seasons, and Andujar has more power, but from an OPS+ standpoint the bats are very similar.
McNeil has been injured throughout his minor league career, but he's got a career .818 OPS (6 seasons).
Andujar has a career .754 OPS (7 seasons).
7 seasons? .754 OPS?
Not sure who's numbers you're looking at, but they aren't Miguels.
I wasn't upset, just questioning the poster.
The comment that was probably inflammatory (to some people) was this one (besides the "much" better comment which came later)
Just sign Grandal. When did Realmuto become Piazza and Pudge combined. Why cant they Mets just sign a couple players they dont need to trade talent for!
And this inflated value of Andujar is nuts. I dont get it.
Andujar wRC+ 128
League and park adjustments matter.
so, "much better", right?
does BABIP matter or NAH? or I suppose McNeil's just such a machine that he's going to continue putting out .360+?
Baghdad Z doing Baghdad Z things.
I wasn't upset, just questioning the poster.
The comment that was probably inflammatory (to some people) was this one (besides the "much" better comment which came later)
Quote:
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's
I don't really have an issue with anything you said. Z just gets so ridiculous during these conversations that it's too much to ignore.
And this inflated value of Andujar is nuts. I dont get it.
Of course you don't get it, you think your Roy Hobbs at 3b is a budding superstar. Enjoy the BAbip regression.
Do you always flat-out make up quotes? Bizarre.
It's basically done.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
It's basically done.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
Ha.
And the guy who is tight with someone tight with Cashman says Harper to the Yanks is gonna happen.
Well see I guess.
Verified account
@Ken_Rosenthal
7m7 minutes ago
More
Name to watch with #Yankees: Miguel Andjar. Rival execs tell me and @ByRobertMurray NYY open to moving him. Would make sense as #Marlins ask for Realmuto; MIA wants established young MLB player as headliner. Also would line up with NYY pursuit of Machado. Torres could play SS.
People can shit on Andujar's defense, but his bat is for real, and will get better. If the Yankees are making him available, that means the Machado stuff is probably heating up.
If the Yankees walk away with Thor and Machado as part of all of this, the Yankees are going to be the trendy pick to win it all next year.
It's basically done.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
I find this hard to believe - but if the Yanks do this, they need to turn around and ink Machado.
It's basically done.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
Can't imagine this is accurate. Yankees win big here, Mets win too, and Marlins lose in a yuuuge way.
Quote:
Grain of salt
It's basically done.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
I find this hard to believe - but if the Yanks do this, they need to turn around and ink Machado.
I doubt Cash does this unless hes supremely confident Machado is sitting under the tree on Christmas morning.
Quote:
Ken Rosenthal
Verified account
@Ken_Rosenthal
7m7 minutes ago
More
Name to watch with #Yankees: Miguel Andjar. Rival execs tell me and @ByRobertMurray NYY open to moving him. Would make sense as #Marlins ask for Realmuto; MIA wants established young MLB player as headliner. Also would line up with NYY pursuit of Machado. Torres could play SS.
People can shit on Andujar's defense, but his bat is for real, and will get better. If the Yankees are making him available, that means the Machado stuff is probably heating up.
If the Yankees walk away with Thor and Machado as part of all of this, the Yankees are going to be the trendy pick to win it all next year.
Well put Matt on Andujar. But if the Yanks get Thor and Machado, it won't be trendy. They are already considered a leading team for the WS next year. So adding those two won't make it trendy, but probably favorites. (maybe I nitpicked here)
Quote:
And this inflated value of Andujar is nuts. I dont get it.
Of course you don't get it, you think your Roy Hobbs at 3b is a budding superstar. Enjoy the BAbip regression.
McNeil will likely regress some, but he does have a consistent track record in the minors. Injuries had derailed his career until now and hopefully are behind him.
but he didn't exactly come out of nowhere.
And he's 27 before next season while Andujar is 24 (there are less than 3 years difference between them), it's not like people are calling him grandpa.
Quote:
McNeil wRC+ 137
Andujar wRC+ 128
League and park adjustments matter.
so, "much better", right?
does BABIP matter or NAH? or I suppose McNeil's just such a machine that he's going to continue putting out .360+?
Baghdad Z doing Baghdad Z things.
Much better is a matter of perspective I guess. Almost a 10% swing in OPS+/wRC+ land is the difference between a Jay Bruce and a Yoenis Cespedes so yeah... that can be significant. I also prefaced what I was saying with I totally get McNeil had a smaller sample. I also agree McNeils BABIP was a high... a guy that puts a lot of balls in play sometimes will have a higher BABIP but it bears watching. Andujar has signs of regression as well. I actually expect McNeil to hit more power in the majors than he showed after he fully adjusts but his OPS will come down some. Either way... Andujar wasnt a better hitter in their rookie seasons and his defense is atrocious. I see no reason why the Mets would want him.
It's basically done.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
So the Marlins get absolutely, positively shit on? lol No chance.
Quote:
Grain of salt
It's basically done.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
Can't imagine this is accurate. Yankees win big here, Mets win too, and Marlins lose in a yuuuge way.
Agreed - if Andujar is getting dealt it's to the Marlins. He seems like the exact type of player they want and we all know they are more likely to rate assets from the NYY system well. Andujar + something to the Marlins, a SP to the Yankees, and Realmuto to the mets makes logical sense, which scares me as a met fan bc out of every potential asset in that deal (including Wheeler) I think Realmuto is the most overrated by a healthy margin.
Pre-Trade "I don't understand why the minor league stats of a 17 year old is not directly comparable to a 21 year old college player"
After "You know the number of errors Andujar has committed each season has gone down from 26 to 15 from when he was 19 years old to now; by the time he's McNeils age hes on pace to be have like 5 a year"
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
Quote:
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
Sonny Gray says hello ;) . Yankees would send Sonny to Flushing.
Quote:
After he was just shit on on this thread.
Pre-Trade "I don't understand why the minor league stats of a 17 year old is not directly comparable to a 21 year old college player"
After "You know the number of errors Andujar has committed each season has gone down from 26 to 15 from when he was 19 years old to now; by the time he's McNeils age hes on pace to be have like 5 a year"
I don't think anyone shit on Andujar. Some Mets fans simply said Andujar's bat is not "in a different league" from Jeff McNeil's.
Added, you trade him to the Yankees and he wins 20.
Quote:
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
unless you flip the Mets 2nd piece in the trade (Andujar or whoever it is) and Gimenez to Cleveland for Kluber (or someone else)
Only reason I can see the Mets trading Thor is because they either dont want to pay him and Degrom next year or they anticipate injury.
And the Yankees will trade Gray, perhaps in a Mets deal, or for prospects to recoup the farm a bit.
4 team trade!!!!!!
But seriously even getting Kluber won't change the math on JTR <<<< Thor. If they can get Kluber on a fair deal do it and keep Thor.
Wheeler (by proxy) for JTR makes some sense if they have some alternative SP pitching options lined up since Wheeler isn't under contract beyond next season and you will have to pay him close to FA prices anyway.
Quote:
In comment 14214475 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
Sonny Gray says hello ;) . Yankees would send Sonny to Flushing.
Perfect. Has stunk for a few seasons now, a FA after the season and his own GM noted he couldn't handle the market. Perfect Met.
Sonny Gray says hello ;) . Yankees would send Sonny to Flushing.
Perfect. Has stunk for a few seasons now, a FA after the season and his own GM noted he couldn't handle the market. Perfect Met.
Not quite perfect, he isn't repped by CAA.
Nothing about a team trying to "win now" trading Syndergaard would make sense short of Kris Bryant or Trout.
it is when discussing mediocre Sonny Gray who makes MORE than him.
Another reason why his value is so high. I would never trade him if the main return is Realmuto. Just sign Grandal instead. This makes no sense to me.
Sale returned Moncada and Kopech and two lesser prospects
say this goes through (which I doubt)
Syndergaard returns Andjuar and Realmuto
Obviously the White Sox were looking for prospects, not major leaguers and they got the #1 prospect in the game and another top 30/50 prospect.
Doesn't seem that much different to me.
Like I said, I wouldn't love that deal and I think Realmuto is getting insanely overpriced, but a deal along those lines would make a hell of a lot more sense than trading Thor.
So, Yanks get NS.
Miami gets Andujar and CF (Hicks or Florial)
Mets get Realmuto and Gray.
Maybe?
Who knows - I like this stuff though - it's fun to speculate and that's what the hot stove league is all about.
Quote:
Inconsequential. He isnt making anything.
it is when discussing mediocre Sonny Gray who makes MORE than him.
Again, would you be shocked if the Mets told the Yankees they need an arm back, in order to make a Thor deal and open up a Machado signing the Yankees would offer Gray and some $$ to offset costs? Gray screams a guy who a team will trade for and see if he could recoup his value and become a potential deal at the deadline in 2019 to add more prospects.
There are few absolutes in life. But one is that Sonny Gray will not be a Yankee in 2019. It's just a question of where is the right place to trade him.
To me, the caveat with an Andujar trade is that it has to mean Machado is a corresponding move.
If we're dealing Andujar and Todd Frazier is our 3B next year, I wouldn't be too thrilled.
Quote:
off the Mets hands to free up some money too?
To me, the caveat with an Andujar trade is that it has to mean Machado is a corresponding move.
If we're dealing Andujar and Todd Frazier is our 3B next year, I wouldn't be too thrilled.
ARC. I dont think its Todd Frazier in the deal. Its Clint Frazier
Quote:
off the Mets hands to free up some money too?
To me, the caveat with an Andujar trade is that it has to mean Machado is a corresponding move.
If we're dealing Andujar and Todd Frazier is our 3B next year, I wouldn't be too thrilled.
Andujar only makes sense if Machado is coming to the Yankees. Didi is going to be out more or less all next year. They aren't filling 2 holes with stopgap players in a Frazier and whoever else to hold down the fort for Didi.
Quote:
off the Mets hands to free up some money too?
To me, the caveat with an Andujar trade is that it has to mean Machado is a corresponding move.
If we're dealing Andujar and Todd Frazier is our 3B next year, I wouldn't be too thrilled.
My bad. I read ur post wrong
Mets get Andujar and Realmuto
Marlins get Clint Frazier, Greg Bird and Loasiga
Who wins, who loses?
Mets get Andujar and Realmuto
Marlins get Clint Frazier, Greg Bird and Loasiga
Who wins, who loses?
Marlins lose.
I'm not sure who wins?
Yanks win if they also sign Manny Machado.
Machado just has to be signed if Andujar is dealt, IMO - there's basically no way trading Andujar works without that component.
Mets get Andujar and Realmuto
Marlins get Clint Frazier, Greg Bird and Loasiga
Who wins, who loses?
Andujar has to go to Marlins. Mets want Realmuto but they don't have the MLB impact player available that makes sense for Miami. Andujar is exactly the type of player the Marlins want. And again, the Yankees wouldn't do any of this unless Machado is coming.
I don't think so. At least I hope not.
Verified account
@Joelsherman1
Follow Follow @Joelsherman1
More
Have heard multiple times now this scenario laid out: #Yankees try to get Realmuto, keep Sanchez as catcher/DH, move Stanton to OF more regularly. #Marlins
So, the would get Sanchez out and make him a fulltime DH? Play Stanton in the outfield? And then I guess sign Machado.
That rumor screams Yankees putting squeeze on Mets to say they will do the deal without them and get the right other chips to swing Realmuto for Thor.
Compared to those few pitchers with ace stuff and ace mechanics? ( Franchise Ace's if you will. Like DeGrom?)
What happens when JT is a FA after next year? Are they going to pony up and pay him? Just sign Grandal or Ramos who at the end of the day will end up being cheaper after two years then what you would have to shell out for JT.
Oh yeah and you keep Thor...
Compared to those few pitchers with ace stuff and ace mechanics? ( Franchise Ace's if you will. Like DeGrom?)
Syndergaard has an extremely simple delivery for a big guy.
Link - ( New Window )
Compared to those few pitchers with ace stuff and ace mechanics? ( Franchise Ace's if you will. Like DeGrom?)
Thor does not have a lot of moving pieces in his delivery.
Basically they would be trading Frazier + Andujar for Thor + Machado signing.
I add a significant bullpen piece (Miller, Familia, etc.)
I add a catcher. Ramos or Grandal. We know the Mets have already met with Ramos
I add a starting pitcher like Morton or Keuchel.
and I roll with it.
Pipe dream, I pursue both Machado and/or Harper, Mets could use both or either.
I don't see how trading Syndergaard makes the Mets better based on the proposed trades (in this thread at least).
And my comment have nothing to do with the Yankees. If I was a GM I'd trade my son to the Yankees if it made the Mets better. I don't consider them a rival and have no hate toward them other than when they play each other.
Honestly, I don't know why the Mets would trade the guy.
imo, when this trade happens it happens. Until then it sure seems like media in a echo chamber tweeting without filters
Yankees get Syndergaard and a Mets minor leaguer like Cheech, Lindsay, or Mauricio
Mets get Realmuto and Aaron Hicks (MUST be in the deal)
Marlins get Andujar, Loaisiga, Green
I still hate it, and the Yankees giving up Hicks, Andujar, Loaisiga, and Green sounds like a lot, but if you're getting back Thor and going to sign Machado, it's not crazy.
For the Mets, getting Realmuto AND Hicks make the deal not batshit crazy.
Honestly, I don't know why the Mets would trade the guy.
imo, when this trade happens it happens. Until then it sure seems like media in a echo chamber tweeting without filters
The Mets aren't going to pay DeGrom and Thor. They were going to pick one to keep and DeGrom is the obvious choice. And with a pitcher, you want to trade him before any injuries hit as a precaution. The Mets still have Wheeler and Matz there. It's a financial decision.
Quote:
I watch almost every Yankee game but rarely any other team so I did not know that about Thor. I was wondering if there was going forward risk and they were selling high
Honestly, I don't know why the Mets would trade the guy.
imo, when this trade happens it happens. Until then it sure seems like media in a echo chamber tweeting without filters
The Mets aren't going to pay DeGrom and Thor. They were going to pick one to keep and DeGrom is the obvious choice. And with a pitcher, you want to trade him before any injuries hit as a precaution. The Mets still have Wheeler and Matz there. It's a financial decision.
This is a poor argument to trade Syndergaard. He's not a FA for 3 years AND you still have to sign Realmuto to a contract vs. Syndergaard. It's one thing if Syndergaard were a pending FA. He's not. A lot can happen in 3 seasons.
Yankees get Syndergaard and a Mets minor leaguer like Cheech, Lindsay, or Mauricio
Mets get Realmuto and Aaron Hicks (MUST be in the deal)
Marlins get Andujar, Loaisiga, Green
I still hate it, and the Yankees giving up Hicks, Andujar, Loaisiga, and Green sounds like a lot, but if you're getting back Thor and going to sign Machado, it's not crazy.
For the Mets, getting Realmuto AND Hicks make the deal not batshit crazy.
Why would the Yankees trade Hicks? There is no reason for them to do so. If anything, the Mets are the ones pursuing Realmuto which is triggering all this. And would make sense for the Sherman rumor that the Yankees are saying they will just go ahead and deal for him themselves since they actually have the pieces the Marlins want, not the Mets. Mets need a 3rd team to make it work. It might be because the Mets want a Hicks and the Yankees are telling them to stuff it.
Quote:
In comment 14214604 Bill2 said:
Quote:
I watch almost every Yankee game but rarely any other team so I did not know that about Thor. I was wondering if there was going forward risk and they were selling high
Honestly, I don't know why the Mets would trade the guy.
imo, when this trade happens it happens. Until then it sure seems like media in a echo chamber tweeting without filters
The Mets aren't going to pay DeGrom and Thor. They were going to pick one to keep and DeGrom is the obvious choice. And with a pitcher, you want to trade him before any injuries hit as a precaution. The Mets still have Wheeler and Matz there. It's a financial decision.
This is a poor argument to trade Syndergaard. He's not a FA for 3 years AND you still have to sign Realmuto to a contract vs. Syndergaard. It's one thing if Syndergaard were a pending FA. He's not. A lot can happen in 3 seasons.
+1000
Quote:
The trade, IMV, would be:
Yankees get Syndergaard and a Mets minor leaguer like Cheech, Lindsay, or Mauricio
Mets get Realmuto and Aaron Hicks (MUST be in the deal)
Marlins get Andujar, Loaisiga, Green
I still hate it, and the Yankees giving up Hicks, Andujar, Loaisiga, and Green sounds like a lot, but if you're getting back Thor and going to sign Machado, it's not crazy.
For the Mets, getting Realmuto AND Hicks make the deal not batshit crazy.
Why would the Yankees trade Hicks? There is no reason for them to do so. If anything, the Mets are the ones pursuing Realmuto which is triggering all this. And would make sense for the Sherman rumor that the Yankees are saying they will just go ahead and deal for him themselves since they actually have the pieces the Marlins want, not the Mets. Mets need a 3rd team to make it work. It might be because the Mets want a Hicks and the Yankees are telling them to stuff it.
Because they'd be getting back one of the best young starting pitchers in the game?
Why would the Yankees trade Hicks? There is no reason for them to do so.
I'd rather lose Hicks and sign Harper than lose Andujar and sign Machado.
Verified account @Joelsherman1
18m18 minutes ago
Will say this about outside perception about what #Yankees will do, internally NYY doesnt love Stanton regularly in OF for health/result reasons and have never seemed to believe they have good match for Realmuto plus Cashman has said Sanchez is his catcher.
24 replies 42 retweets 134 likes
Seems to be saying that outsiders are floating the scenario of Stanton to OF and Sanchez to DH, not the Yankees.
Quote:
In comment 14214613 allstarjim said:
Quote:
The trade, IMV, would be:
Yankees get Syndergaard and a Mets minor leaguer like Cheech, Lindsay, or Mauricio
Mets get Realmuto and Aaron Hicks (MUST be in the deal)
Marlins get Andujar, Loaisiga, Green
I still hate it, and the Yankees giving up Hicks, Andujar, Loaisiga, and Green sounds like a lot, but if you're getting back Thor and going to sign Machado, it's not crazy.
For the Mets, getting Realmuto AND Hicks make the deal not batshit crazy.
Why would the Yankees trade Hicks? There is no reason for them to do so. If anything, the Mets are the ones pursuing Realmuto which is triggering all this. And would make sense for the Sherman rumor that the Yankees are saying they will just go ahead and deal for him themselves since they actually have the pieces the Marlins want, not the Mets. Mets need a 3rd team to make it work. It might be because the Mets want a Hicks and the Yankees are telling them to stuff it.
Because they'd be getting back one of the best young starting pitchers in the game?
They dont have to give up Hicks because the Mets, from what it sounds like, need a third team to get Realmuto.
Quote:
The trade, IMV, would be:
Yankees get Syndergaard and a Mets minor leaguer like Cheech, Lindsay, or Mauricio
Mets get Realmuto and Aaron Hicks (MUST be in the deal)
Marlins get Andujar, Loaisiga, Green
I still hate it, and the Yankees giving up Hicks, Andujar, Loaisiga, and Green sounds like a lot, but if you're getting back Thor and going to sign Machado, it's not crazy.
For the Mets, getting Realmuto AND Hicks make the deal not batshit crazy.
Why would the Yankees trade Hicks? There is no reason for them to do so. If anything, the Mets are the ones pursuing Realmuto which is triggering all this. And would make sense for the Sherman rumor that the Yankees are saying they will just go ahead and deal for him themselves since they actually have the pieces the Marlins want, not the Mets. Mets need a 3rd team to make it work. It might be because the Mets want a Hicks and the Yankees are telling them to stuff it.
Matt, the Mets aren't going to trade Noah Syndergaard and his 3 years of control for just J.T. Realmuto. Never going to happen. There HAS to be another legit piece coming back.
Yankees get Syndergaard and a Mets minor leaguer like Cheech, Lindsay, or Mauricio
Mets get Realmuto and Aaron Hicks (MUST be in the deal)
Marlins get Andujar, Loaisiga, Green
I still hate it, and the Yankees giving up Hicks, Andujar, Loaisiga, and Green sounds like a lot, but if you're getting back Thor and going to sign Machado, it's not crazy.
For the Mets, getting Realmuto AND Hicks make the deal not batshit crazy.
Yanks are not trading Starting CF (2nd to Trout in AL Stats), starting 3Bman, a BP set up man and a potential SP for Syndergaard.
Hicks would not headline a package for a bigtime SP, and the Yankees would much sooner add to the prospect return than move their starting CF as a secondary/tertiary piece.
Plus defense, plus discipline, switch hitter, very good baserunner, power.
Not out of the question that he gets moved, but I don't see it happening. I think it's more likely that they play out the year. If they trade Florial, they likely look to sign Hicks long term. If Florial is kept and rebounds from last year, Hicks probably declines a QO and walks, NYY gladly takes the pick.
Greg,
He was 11th in baseball in FIP second half and since debuting in 2015 he's 14th. How overrated can he be? 13 pitchers have been better by FIP and 13th by fWAR and that's WITH his missed time. Gotta disagree with you here. He's very, very good with a chance to be a Cy Young caliber pitcher still.
Link - ( New Window )
2nd in FIP
14th in fWAR
4th in era
I mean what exactly is the argument against him?
He's been absolutely dominant, missed some time. Was 11th in FIP second half last year. He's a borderline ace that has ace stuff and is 26.
He has 3 years of control at lower $ and is the same age as Sale when he got traded. Is there a pitcher (under 30) closer to Sale since that trade than Syndergaard? Cole had 2 years remaining and was coming off a 4 era. Syndergaard was worth 4.2 fwar last year in 25 starts (Sale was worth 4.9 the year before he was traded).
has not yet shown to be a work-horse.
not a major issue, but if there's a knock, that's it.
Pitcher 1) 2.71 FIP, 2.85 era
Pitcher 2) 2.97 FIP, 2.77 era
Pitcher 3) 2.93 FIP, 2.67 era
Pitcher 4) 2.42 FIP, 2.81 era
One of these is Noah Syndergaard.
has not yet shown to be a work-horse.
not a major issue, but if there's a knock, that's it.
For sure. But he's also only 26. It's not like this is year 8 of his career. No major surgeries. He's as dominant as any other top pitcher in the game when he pitches and again it's not like he has major red flags injury wise.
he's a huge asset, no question.
Hicks, not Andujar? Hicks is 29 going on 30 and I think is FA next year, no?
Whenever the "Syndergaard is overrated" narrative gets passed around I feel like this:
Not happening. Cannot see Yanks giving up 2 starters. How do they replace Hicks' defense? I can see one, but not both and that is not to diminish Syndergaard's worth. He is likely a #1. But that opens two holes for the Yanks. Yes Machado will fill the infield hole favorably. But unless there is another starting CF laying around, it would be hard to lose Hicks. And there is little chance the Yanks go for both Machado and Harper.
Quote:
in addition to Andujar.
Not happening. Cannot see Yanks giving up 2 starters. How do they replace Hicks' defense? I can see one, but not both and that is not to diminish Syndergaard's worth. He is likely a #1. But that opens two holes for the Yanks. Yes Machado will fill the infield hole favorably. But unless there is another starting CF laying around, it would be hard to lose Hicks. And there is little chance the Yanks go for both Machado and Harper.
I don't disagree, but I guess it would all depend on how close they thought Florial was. I believe he's still a year or 2 away so I'm not sure how the Yankees could make it work.
How quickly you forget the fully rested, $153 million secret weapon we have in the arsenal.
FIP- is league and park adjusted so if you prefer using that, since 2016 he's #1 in baseball
"● ERA-, FIP-, and xFIP- are park and league adjusted. They control for home park and your specific leagues average ERA, FIP, or xFIP."
There are no numbers other than innings pitched in which Syndergaard can be argued has been anything worse than a top 10-15 SP in baseball. They don't exist.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 14214613 allstarjim said:
Quote:
The trade, IMV, would be:
Yankees get Syndergaard and a Mets minor leaguer like Cheech, Lindsay, or Mauricio
Mets get Realmuto and Aaron Hicks (MUST be in the deal)
Marlins get Andujar, Loaisiga, Green
I still hate it, and the Yankees giving up Hicks, Andujar, Loaisiga, and Green sounds like a lot, but if you're getting back Thor and going to sign Machado, it's not crazy.
For the Mets, getting Realmuto AND Hicks make the deal not batshit crazy.
Why would the Yankees trade Hicks? There is no reason for them to do so. If anything, the Mets are the ones pursuing Realmuto which is triggering all this. And would make sense for the Sherman rumor that the Yankees are saying they will just go ahead and deal for him themselves since they actually have the pieces the Marlins want, not the Mets. Mets need a 3rd team to make it work. It might be because the Mets want a Hicks and the Yankees are telling them to stuff it.
Matt, the Mets aren't going to trade Noah Syndergaard and his 3 years of control for just J.T. Realmuto. Never going to happen. There HAS to be another legit piece coming back.
I don't necessarily disagree with you. That's why I said the Sherman rumor of the Yankees dealing for Realmuto directly and moving Sanchez to DH made no sense to me. It sounded like a warning to the Mets that if they want Realmuto that badly, the Yankees aren't going to give up additional players like a Hicks or maybe some other prospect. I don't see the Yankees trading Hicks. Again, the Mets are the team who is trying to land Realmuto here as the pivot point. Their problem is that they don't have what the Marlins want to make it happen so they need a 3rd team. If it's not the Yankees, it'll be someone else. But I don't see the Yankees giving up Hicks.
Quote:
Who plays CF? You can't put Gardner out there every day at age 36. Judge might be able to be adequate in center but there's no way they want him running that much.
How quickly you forget the fully rested, $153 million secret weapon we have in the arsenal.
Cannot imagine how I forget that weapon..I am ashamed of myself.
You can dust off Jacoby Ellsbury for all I care, frankly, that's still not in any way an overpay for Syndergaard.
Quote:
Who plays CF? You can't put Gardner out there every day at age 36. Judge might be able to be adequate in center but there's no way they want him running that much.
You can dust off Jacoby Ellsbury for all I care, frankly, that's still not in any way an overpay for Syndergaard.
There you go then, Andujar and Ellsbury for Syndergaard!
2nd in FIP
14th in fWAR
4th in era
I mean what exactly is the argument against him?
He's been absolutely dominant, missed some time. Was 11th in FIP second half last year. He's a borderline ace that has ace stuff and is 26.
Its Greg, his argument against him is that hes not a Yankee.
It doesn't, you said who plays CF for the Yankees if they trade Hicks, that's why I mentioned Ellsbury.
The Sox gave up the #2 overall & #32 overall prospects in the game as well as a guy rated organizationally 8th and 28th at the time. The equivalent deal would almost be term for term Andujar (not ranked as a prospect anymore, but rookie of the year runner up), Florial - #45 ranked prospect, and maybe Loiasiga - #66 ranked & someone like a Ryder Green or other lower end 4th piece with upside. This upgrades the back end of the deal the Sox made as Loaisiga is light years better than the two throw ins in the Sale trade to make up for the slightly lower ranked Florial than Kopech. However you divvy up those four players between the Mets and the Marlins, that would be what a fair offer from the Yankees would be to receive Syndergaard.
Not saying Noah can't get there, but he's a riskier player right now than Sale was at the time of the trade.
I'm always leery of pitchers moving from the NL to the AL.
What did you expect?
Verified account
@Joelsherman1
4m4 minutes ago
More
#Padres have been told by #Marlins they have prospect inventory to get Realmuto but have not been told yet by Mia what combo would need to be.
Least shocking post of the thread.
But you have to have a bar and there are not a lot of 26 year old top of the rotation pitchers who get traded.
call him an ace, call him a #1, call him top of the rotation. It's irrelevant. He throws 100 and has a 12 to 6 curveball. He hasn't even really put together a season that has matched his stuff yet and DMM showed you his FIP and FIP results.
So Sale is used as a comp not indicating the two pitchers are clones, but to see what it cost for the Sox to acquire Sale and evaluate the proposed return for Syndergaard accordingly.
And now is very different than then. At the time Sox fans and media were questioning was it an overpay. Moncada was #1 or #2 prospect in baseball. Today some of the bloom is off that rose and who knows if Moncada pans out, but that's the risk with prospects. but the price was steep even if it turns out poorly for the White Sox.
Mets acquired Santana, but that was a long time ago and the Mets immediately negotiated a massive extension for Santana so it's not apples to apples either but the Twins wound up with garbage for Santana (though Carlos Gomez later excelled, just not with the Twins).
Anyway, people get hung up on stuff, but the point is not to say Syndergaard = Sale.
Scherzer is another decent comp, but when he was traded, at a similar age, he had less credentials.
Maybe there are others too, I am sure there are, but not a ton.
There just aren't a lot of examples, so people look to the ones they have to compare and adjust in their minds what a fair trade looks like.
Personally, no way I trade Syndergaard for the names mentioned and it could be the established player version of prospect hugging, but I think he's more valuable to the Mets and the makeup of their team than the guys mentioned in return for him.
One negative I will say about him though is Syndergaard doesn't seem like he's improving. He's great as is without improvement, but seems to have plateaud IMO and some say he's hasn't "learned to pitch" and I see that a little.
I expected after his first year or two he'd become unhittable as he evolved, but he has remained the same (which of course is pretty damn good)
right, that's why I said it's the established player version of prospect hugging.
FFS
The Sox gave up the #2 overall & #32 overall prospects in the game as well as a guy rated organizationally 8th and 28th at the time. The equivalent deal would almost be term for term Andujar (not ranked as a prospect anymore, but rookie of the year runner up), Florial - #45 ranked prospect, and maybe Loiasiga - #66 ranked & someone like a Ryder Green or other lower end 4th piece with upside. This upgrades the back end of the deal the Sox made as Loaisiga is light years better than the two throw ins in the Sale trade to make up for the slightly lower ranked Florial than Kopech. However you divvy up those four players between the Mets and the Marlins, that would be what a fair offer from the Yankees would be to receive Syndergaard.
A proven major league hitter is worth more than the #2 prospect. You won't get Andjuar and Florial.
Or agents using GMs they are about to deal with to try to pry loose movement on someone else in their stable.
Who is the agent for Realmuto?
also a dodger contact wanted to be me they get Bryce - I said no bet - FYI
Thanks Capone. I hope its the case and Thor isnt traded to the Yankees for a crappy package.
Quote:
and he said this 3 team scenario with Thor and the yankees is likely 100% BS... remember the winter meetings is a petri dish of bad info , agents , writers all have an agenda and will knowingly pass along stuff they know is not true ... tweeters/ writers do it knowing is bullshit so teh agents / gms will owe them a favor .. as long as they can still say they heard "X" .. they can write it ... fake news is rampant in sports as well :)
Thanks Capone. I hope its the case and Thor isnt traded to the Yankees for a crappy package.
Or the Yankees overpay for an NL pitcher likely to struggle in the AL East.
I don't think Andujar, Frazier and Loaisaga is enough to get back Wheeler and I'm a Yankee fan...
Overall he was 3-0 with 17K in 17 innings in interleague last year. Other than that, yeah. NL pitcher he'd totally suck.
I don't think Andujar, Frazier and Loaisaga is enough to get back Wheeler and I'm a Yankee fan...
The Yankees are not getting Noah Syndergaard, they don't have the capital to afford him without including Torres and that's not going to happen. Heck, I don't think Andujar, Frazier and Loaisaga is enough to get back Wheeler and I'm a Yankee fan... Reformatted
You're nuts.
Wheeler began 2018 in the minors. He had a ridiculous 3.5 months after a slow start, but I'd need to see more before ponying up a ton in terms of high end prospects.
I'd acquire him, but I don't think that post about not being enough is accurate.
Quote:
In comment 14214816 capone said:
Quote:
and he said this 3 team scenario with Thor and the yankees is likely 100% BS... remember the winter meetings is a petri dish of bad info , agents , writers all have an agenda and will knowingly pass along stuff they know is not true ... tweeters/ writers do it knowing is bullshit so teh agents / gms will owe them a favor .. as long as they can still say they heard "X" .. they can write it ... fake news is rampant in sports as well :)
Thanks Capone. I hope its the case and Thor isnt traded to the Yankees for a crappy package.
Or the Yankees overpay for an NL pitcher likely to struggle in the AL East.
Lol, right. The scary AL East. Its amazing any pitcher succeeds pitching to any of those teams. Im willing to bet NS would do just fine.
But then again, its just as easy to say that any of your player wouldnt hit nearly as well with the top flight starting pitchers in the NL East.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
I'm always leery of pitchers moving from the NL to the AL.
An NL pitcher with not so great numbers against AL lineups? Gee, what a shock.
Quote:
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Quote:
In comment 14214860 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
That would be a really bad trade. One year of control on Wheeler.
Quote:
Syndergaard vs AL teams: 12 games, 3.96 ERA, 1.257 WHIP.
I'm always leery of pitchers moving from the NL to the AL.
An NL pitcher with not so great numbers against AL lineups? Gee, what a shock.
With that small sample size, one or two games can skew the numbers. Looked pretty good against AL lineups last season. Held the Yanks to 1 run.
Quote:
In comment 14214870 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14214860 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
That would be a really bad trade. One year of control on Wheeler.
The premise is the Yankees would resign him. But I get your point.
Quote:
In comment 14214860 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Quote:
In comment 14214870 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14214860 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
Quote:
In comment 14214880 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 14214870 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14214860 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
He's also a great hitter and only going to get better. So, nope.
Quote:
In comment 14214897 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14214880 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 14214870 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14214860 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
He's also a great hitter and only going to get better. So, nope.
There is a reason Andujar is available....
Andujar available in trade talks - ( New Window )
Sounds about right. I'd love to land Thor for a limited damage package but that only pre-supposed the Mets were hellbent on getting Realmuto and the Yankees had them over a barrel. In my heart of hearts, I already know how this is going to end. Yankees will miss out on Muchado and Harper. They will sign Happ. They'll trade Gray for prospects. And Hal and Cashman will say that they spent their money on Stanton last year and to ignore the whole luxury tax thing and say they are better with Paxton and a full year of Happ.
Yup, that was my thought lastnight. I can understand "talks" between the two teams but I think a lot of it is for show, or simply not true. When it comes to the Yankees/Mets and the cross need for Pitching/young position talent I just can't see either side giving in to the other and rightfully so.
Seems like that was a disaster.
Quote:
In comment 14214898 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 14214897 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14214880 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 14214870 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14214860 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
He's also a great hitter and only going to get better. So, nope.
There is a reason Andujar is available.... Andujar available in trade talks - ( New Window )
And again, he's a tremendous hitter already in his rookie year. If they're going to trade him for an ace pitcher, fine. But for something less or just basically give him away? No thanks. Also, if they do trade him, who are you replacing him with?
Seems like that was a disaster.
Since they are on the hook for the whole contract, I wonder if the Yanks go after him. Worst case, he's done and they lose a million or two. Best case, he buys them time to get to Didi and then deal him when Didi gets back.
Quote:
In comment 14214900 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14214898 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 14214897 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14214880 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 14214870 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14214860 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
He's also a great hitter and only going to get better. So, nope.
There is a reason Andujar is available.... Andujar available in trade talks - ( New Window )
And again, he's a tremendous hitter already in his rookie year. If they're going to trade him for an ace pitcher, fine. But for something less or just basically give him away? No thanks. Also, if they do trade him, who are you replacing him with?
Theoretically Machado, Syndergaard is an ace pitcher, and if the deal was Andujar for Syndergaard straight up the Mets would be getting robbed. Every GM in baseball would sell Andujar for Syndergaard and pop bottles all night afterward.
Quote:
In comment 14214908 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 14214900 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14214898 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 14214897 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14214880 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 14214870 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14214860 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
He's also a great hitter and only going to get better. So, nope.
There is a reason Andujar is available.... Andujar available in trade talks - ( New Window )
And again, he's a tremendous hitter already in his rookie year. If they're going to trade him for an ace pitcher, fine. But for something less or just basically give him away? No thanks. Also, if they do trade him, who are you replacing him with?
Theoretically Machado, Syndergaard is an ace pitcher, and if the deal was Andujar for Syndergaard straight up the Mets would be getting robbed. Every GM in baseball would sell Andujar for Syndergaard and pop bottles all night afterward.
For an ace pitcher, fine. But not for Wheeler. And I have to see the Yankees sign Machado first, too. No guarantee that happens.
Jon Heyman
Verified account @JonHeyman
50s51 seconds ago
Mets said very aggressive on Realmuto. Debate in room now about whether to give up coveted SS Rosario in package or top SP Syndergaard. Mets didnt want to open SS hole but that hasnt been ruled out. Plus, while NYY thing is less a hurdle now, 3 way deals are still complicated
Quote:
In comment 14214900 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14214898 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 14214897 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14214880 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 14214870 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14214860 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
He's also a great hitter and only going to get better. So, nope.
There is a reason Andujar is available.... Andujar available in trade talks - ( New Window )
And again, he's a tremendous hitter already in his rookie year. If they're going to trade him for an ace pitcher, fine. But for something less or just basically give him away? No thanks. Also, if they do trade him, who are you replacing him with?
The obvious replacement is Machado. I think this is what this is about. Trade Miggy, include him in a deal for a frontline starter and then sign Machado and open a 3-4 year window where NYY has a real chance at winning another championship or two, or three...
Quote:
In comment 14214900 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14214898 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 14214897 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14214880 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 14214870 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14214860 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The guy had half a great season. Before that, he was mediocre to awful going back through 2017, and missed two full seasons before that, and turns 29 next season.
You're nuts.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Dont know why the Yankees would though.
For one Andujar is probably the worst fielding 3B in all of baseball.
Then follow the with the injuries to Frazier last year where he basically missed the entire season with concussion syndrome and Loaisaga who has been injured every year he has played.
I would take Wheeler for the 3 in a NYC minute.
Andujar is also a ridiculous hitter and was a rookie. So, uh, no..
Andujar is a nightmare in the field, big liability. Sell now...
He's also a great hitter and only going to get better. So, nope.
There is a reason Andujar is available.... Andujar available in trade talks - ( New Window )
And again, he's a tremendous hitter already in his rookie year. If they're going to trade him for an ace pitcher, fine. But for something less or just basically give him away? No thanks. Also, if they do trade him, who are you replacing him with?
You replace him by signing Machado, who is also a better player.
Man, I love Andujar but man, some of you guys are treating him like hes the next coming of Miguel Cabrera.
A #Marlins official described #Mets as extremely aggressive on Realmuto
Andy Martino
Mets are reluctant to move Rosario but I dont think as reluctant as they say publicly. Boy oh boy do they want Realmuto
Can maintain 98 mph fastball through 110 ppitches
Has the hardest slider in baseball--maybe the hardest all-time
Rises to the occasion in big games. He is not a Kershaw who is great in regular season but not so much in postseason. Thor is at his best in big games. To be honest, I would definitely choose Thor over Degrom to start a must-win game. And I love Degrom.
He is only going to get better because he is still learning how to pitch.
The only negatives are he can't hold runners on and he has been injury prone. But the injuries are all unrelated and more of the freak nature.
But if it's Yanks vs Sox in a game 7, my money is on Thor.
Maybe before last season, but after the way he pitched last year I think the pitchers I'd select over deGrom in a must-win game is limited to 1 or 2.
And Thor is not one of them.
Rosario final 2 months of the season OPS+ over 100 5 homers, 10 doubles 2 triples with 15 steals.
Trading Rosario may not be the end of the world either but the pattern is not conducive to long term success. Acquiring veterans in their respective primes at the top of their positions is certainly important, but that's only half the equation. Need a strong base of young talent developed internally. Rosario is 23 years old and can easily be a plus hitter / plus defender at a premium position as soon as right now. I wouldn't give that up for a guy 2 years from FA.
Is that part of a Sonny Gray trade?
Jose Ramirez first 180 MLB games 1.7 fWAR, Arenado first 133 MLB games 1.8 fWAR, JDM first 252 games NEGATIVE .1 fWAR, Freeman 177 games .4 fWAR, Rosario 200 games 1.8 fWAR... BUST!!!!
Gray for Gannett has been rumored for a while. Honestly, it's up Cashman's alley to dumpster dive. I wonder if the Yankees try to sign Tulo to plug in at short while Didi is out. Tulo gets to try to resurrect his career with little pressure considering all the bats he has around him. And the Yankees don't have to screw around moving Torres.
You would think he was Piazza in his prime with all the attention he is getting. Especially annoying with so many other options in FA.
because it means he's putting all his chips in to the center of the table and calling everyone's bluff.
he could become a Mets hero and basically pick his career path (with just about any franchise once his Mets tenure ends) or he can become a massive, and I mean cataclysmic failure - the type to set a franchise back 5 years if things go off the rails.
Quote:
I feel like if they gave him up that's a lot more tolerable to swallow than Syndergaard.
Rosario final 2 months of the season OPS+ over 100 5 homers, 10 doubles 2 triples with 15 steals.
What's your take, did he turn a corner or just get hot?
Quote:
In comment 14214966 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
I feel like if they gave him up that's a lot more tolerable to swallow than Syndergaard.
Rosario final 2 months of the season OPS+ over 100 5 homers, 10 doubles 2 triples with 15 steals.
What's your take, did he turn a corner or just get hot?
he was the best hitter on the US team in the Japan series after the season. he showed true signs of life
"Nearly three months ago, we ran a piece titled "2018's Most Improved Hitters." It wasn't just based on early-season stat lines; it was looking at under-the-hood factors like improved hard-hit rate or decreased strikeouts. Most of the names made plenty of sense, like Mookie Betts, Xander Bogaerts and Mitch Haniger. Sometimes it's not hard to see improvement.
One name that didn't make sense on that Top 10 was Amed Rosario. At the time, he was hitting .251/.284/.366, a line that was 25 percent worse than the Major League average. If the underlying peripherals were trying to tell us a breakout was coming for Rosario, it was a difficult one to see. And all these months later, he's hitting all of .249/.290/.372, which is to say ... nearly the same below-average line he had back in June.
Rosario's breakout hasn't officially arrived yet, but the factors that made him pop up on our list back in June haven't changed -- and we might just be finally seeing the beginnings of the production that the improved underlying metrics hinted at."
Link - ( New Window )
because it means he's putting all his chips in to the center of the table and calling everyone's bluff.
he could become a Mets hero and basically pick his career path (with just about any franchise once his Mets tenure ends) or he can become a massive, and I mean cataclysmic failure - the type to set a franchise back 5 years if things go off the rails.
Billy King-ish.
Jon Heyman
Verified account @JonHeyman
50s51 seconds ago
Mets said very aggressive on Realmuto. Debate in room now about whether to give up coveted SS Rosario in package or top SP Syndergaard. Mets didnt want to open SS hole but that hasnt been ruled out. Plus, while NYY thing is less a hurdle now, 3 way deals are still complicated
This would be monumentally stupid
Quote:
Rosario and Dunn in one off-season and maybe even Thor he's got a giant set of balls.
because it means he's putting all his chips in to the center of the table and calling everyone's bluff.
he could become a Mets hero and basically pick his career path (with just about any franchise once his Mets tenure ends) or he can become a massive, and I mean cataclysmic failure - the type to set a franchise back 5 years if things go off the rails.
Billy King-ish.
Or Dave Dombrowski-ish if you want a positive example.
The thing is Brodie is talking about dealing future cornerstones and nothing that's coming back in return is dramatically better than whats available via free agency.
No problem.
Quote:
In comment 14215013 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Rosario and Dunn in one off-season and maybe even Thor he's got a giant set of balls.
because it means he's putting all his chips in to the center of the table and calling everyone's bluff.
he could become a Mets hero and basically pick his career path (with just about any franchise once his Mets tenure ends) or he can become a massive, and I mean cataclysmic failure - the type to set a franchise back 5 years if things go off the rails.
Billy King-ish.
Or Dave Dombrowski-ish if you want a positive example.
2 things:
1- Dombrowski was also able to spend big money bringing in Price and Martinez.
2- Dombrowski didn't trade too many young players who were already breaking into the MLB and performing. Had he dealt Betts, Bogoerts, Benitendi, Bradley, etc that strategy wouldn't look great. Moncada was like 19 when he was traded, Kopech was pretty far off too, etc.
Rosario, Thor, Nimmo, Conforto (who have all been in various rumors) IMO are much more the former than the latter. Kelenic/Dunn are more the types of guys Dombrowski traded.
Quote:
In comment 14215019 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14215013 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Rosario and Dunn in one off-season and maybe even Thor he's got a giant set of balls.
because it means he's putting all his chips in to the center of the table and calling everyone's bluff.
he could become a Mets hero and basically pick his career path (with just about any franchise once his Mets tenure ends) or he can become a massive, and I mean cataclysmic failure - the type to set a franchise back 5 years if things go off the rails.
Billy King-ish.
Or Dave Dombrowski-ish if you want a positive example.
2 things:
1- Dombrowski was also able to spend big money bringing in Price and Martinez.
2- Dombrowski didn't trade too many young players who were already breaking into the MLB and performing. Had he dealt Betts, Bogoerts, Benitendi, Bradley, etc that strategy wouldn't look great. Moncada was like 19 when he was traded, Kopech was pretty far off too, etc.
Rosario, Thor, Nimmo, Conforto (who have all been in various rumors) IMO are much more the former than the latter. Kelenic/Dunn are more the types of guys Dombrowski traded.
Red Sox got their ring, now their owners will want to keep their money. Odds are Sale will end up on the shelf at some point in 2019. And they aren't replicating their 2018 production. Boston is not repeating next year so bring the costs down now.
I mean he can hit a little... but is 35 in June, hit .222 with 140 k's and threw out... not a typo 6/59 baserunners...
Well that's my point basically. Why not copy what the winners do? Realmuto isn't some massive need. The best teams aren't going bonkers for him. The Mets are.
he only signed JDM of significance.
He traded for Sale, Thornburg, Nunez, and other minor players, but it hurt their farm system
but my point is he doesn't give a F about the farm if the major league team is winning. If the major league team didn't win and the prospects excelled the backlsh would have likely lost him his job.
In DET he traded for:
Dontrelle Willis and Miggy
Renteria
Scherzer
Fister
Anibal Sanchez
Kinsler
Soria
Price
Cespedes
and in Florida he also traded to acquire veterans
Point is some of those trades included major leaguers for major leaguers, but most included prospects.
Not just them, the Astros the year before, the Cubs the year before, and you can probably keep looking back. Yadi Molina and Posey the exceptions, but it's true, you don't need Piazza or Yogi Berra @ catcher to win a WS in this era.
Quote:
But winners get copied. The Sawx are making it cool to be a contender with absolute garbage behind the plate.
Well that's my point basically. Why not copy what the winners do? Realmuto isn't some massive need. The best teams aren't going bonkers for him. The Brody is.
I guess the tactic stuck with Dombrowski.
Im out on trading Thor 100%.
Rosario's upside is still really big.
Verified account @jonmorosi
3m3 minutes ago
#Phillies are involved in J.T. Realmuto trade talks, source confirms @JonHeyman report. @MLB @MLBNetwork
Rosario's upside is still really big.
It would certainly sting but Realmuto is the best catcher available and hes also the youngest. Grandal could also cost as much as 20 AAV (and the 2nd pick and pool money) and he also has some warts (better from the left side, streaky, passed balls, etc.). If Mets spend that saved money on more players (similar to the Cano deal) I can probably get on board.
Im out on trading Thor 100%.
If they trade Rosario, totally agree on Iglesias. I'm constantly surprised he isn't a more in demand player. But I would not trade Rosario.
I've come around that my top catcher option is Cervelli. 1 year deal, reasonable salary, can do a little bit of everything, shouldn't cost too much. IMO Cervelli + Rosario > Realmuto + Iglesias both on the field and on the payroll.
Lots of options. As long as the Mets dont trade Thor, Nimmo, etc. for him I can probably see the benefit.
Verified account @jonmorosi
3m3 minutes ago
#Phillies are involved in J.T. Realmuto trade talks, source confirms @JonHeyman report. @MLB @MLBNetwork
Alfaro presumably would be part of this.
He's.. REALLY bad. 3.9 fWAR career, 2.6 coming in 2015 which means his ENTIRE career outside of a fluke 2015 681 games... 1.3 fWAR.
A #Marlins official described #Mets as extremely aggressive on Realmuto
Andy Martino
Mets are reluctant to move Rosario but I dont think as reluctant as they say publicly. Boy oh boy do they want Realmuto
Joel Sherman is a HOF bullshit distributor... the marlins feed him this , he knows it may be complete bullshit but they owe him one ..
I'd tell them to go scratch and just trade for Cervelli. Or sign Grandal. Realmuto is not good enough to be worth the holding up whatever the backup plans are.
I'd tell them to go scratch and just trade for Cervelli. Or sign Grandal. Realmuto is not good enough to be worth the holding up whatever the backup plans are.
The back up plan would be actually talking to free agents....
. - ( New Window )
Bio says he's an anchor for spectrum news sports in upstate NY.
Probably just making an opinion from reading other people's tweets.
Hint. Hes being fed, but not by an NL team lol
Mets: Trade Thor to the Yankees.
Yankees: Trade Frasier, Andujar and...Gary Sanchez!
Sanchez is a power right hand hitter with legit power, younger than Realmuto, former all star, and unlimited potential.
Yes, Cashman has said he's off limits, but who knows? The Yankees can replace his production with Harper or Machado, and get by with light hitting defensive catchers. Won't happen, but it would be interesting to see Gary in the middle of the Met's lineup, eh?
Of course that leaves the Yankees without a catcher, but that would be the next step, find themselves the best defensive catcher on the market and bat him 9th in the order.
Mets: Trade Thor to the Yankees.
Yankees: Trade Frasier, Andujar and...Gary Sanchez!
Sanchez is a power right hand hitter with legit power, younger than Realmuto, former all star, and unlimited potential.
Yes, Cashman has said he's off limits, but who knows? The Yankees can replace his production with Harper or Machado, and get by with light hitting defensive catchers. Won't happen, but it would be interesting to see Gary in the middle of the Met's lineup, eh?
Sanchez, Andujar and Frazier? Lol no thanks. Two ML hitters?
Jeez I hope so
Mets: Trade Thor to the Yankees.
Yankees: Trade Frasier, Andujar and...Gary Sanchez!
As a Mets fan I would like that deal... but probably a hair too much from the Yankees side. Would think Sanchez + Andujar would suffice. Maybe a lesser prospect than Frasier.
Quote:
If NYY are pushing a lot of the rumors here to apply some leverage to Cleveland.
Jeez I hope so
That makes more sense than the Marlins strong arming the Mets to trade Thor to the Yankees. That doesn't make any God damn sense.
Quote:
and get Realmuto, couldn't the Yankees and Mets still trade (and not involve Miami).
Mets: Trade Thor to the Yankees.
Yankees: Trade Frasier, Andujar and...Gary Sanchez!
As a Mets fan I would like that deal... but probably a hair too much from the Yankees side. Would think Sanchez + Andujar would suffice. Maybe a lesser prospect than Frasier.
Sanchez and Andujar are both young, cost-controlled All-Star caliber hitters. That would be an overpay for NYY. (Although both are less valuable in the NL.)
Stop messing around and just sign Grandal. I feel like Brodie likes the big splash and feels he needs to prove himself. This is going to backfire big time if it comes to fruition.
Can we please stop calling him Thor? These childish nicknames should be an embarrassment for Mets fans. Whats next? Dark Night? Oh wait...
Stop messing around and just sign Grandal. I feel like Brodie likes the big splash and feels he needs to prove himself. This is going to backfire big time if it comes to fruition.
I dont know if teams are bullying the Mets, I think its more about playing off the Mets desperation to make moves. The Mets are the aggressor, they be dumb not to play off that.
Quote:
Forget JT, forget the Marlins and forget Jeter. Tell them to go scratch. I just get the feeling that teams believe they can bully around the Mets. Dont deal Thor or Rosario. Have some faith in your young promising players.
Stop messing around and just sign Grandal. I feel like Brodie likes the big splash and feels he needs to prove himself. This is going to backfire big time if it comes to fruition.
I dont know if teams are bullying the Mets, I think its more about playing off the Mets desperation to make moves. The Mets are the aggressor, they be dumb not to play off that.
No disagreement here.
Mets need to make a big signing if they really want to improve. So far BVW has just sold off minor league talent to get major league talent but he has not improved the total amount of talent in the organization. In fact, one could argue he has reduced it.
They need to add a Ramos/Cervelli and another top-shelf reliever.
Can we please stop calling him Thor? These childish nicknames should be an embarrassment for Mets fans. Whats next? Dark Night? Oh wait...
It's not that serious. The Yankees aren't above nicknames either.
I was just about to post the same thing.
Stop messing around and just sign Grandal. I feel like Brodie likes the big splash and feels he needs to prove himself. This is going to backfire big time if it comes to fruition.
I agree with this. I hope BVW doesn't feel some need to justify his job with "creativity". I also hope he's not so hamstrung by payroll that he has no choice.
Sign Pollack, 2 of Miller/Britton/Robertson/Ottavino, and Grandal. Let's go.
Quote:
Thor. Not saying they wont because its the Mets, but why on earth do you pull off the cano trade and then to turn around and weaken your rotation. He is a top five pitcher period, they dont grow on trees and you dont trade them for 3rdbasemen who cant field and have inflated power numbers from playing in Yankees stadium.
Can we please stop calling him Thor? These childish nicknames should be an embarrassment for Mets fans. Whats next? Dark Night? Oh wait...
Godzilla, Babe, Scooter, Gator/Lousiana Lightning, Sweet Lou, El Duque... YOGI, Donnie Baseball, Mr. October... you sure?
Quote:
In comment 14215243 bhill410 said:
Quote:
Thor. Not saying they wont because its the Mets, but why on earth do you pull off the cano trade and then to turn around and weaken your rotation. He is a top five pitcher period, they dont grow on trees and you dont trade them for 3rdbasemen who cant field and have inflated power numbers from playing in Yankees stadium.
Can we please stop calling him Thor? These childish nicknames should be an embarrassment for Mets fans. Whats next? Dark Night? Oh wait...
Godzilla, Babe, Scooter, Gator/Lousiana Lightning, Sweet Lou, El Duque... YOGI, Donnie Baseball, Mr. October... you sure?
Don't forget Goose, Moose, Rocket, Mo, The Mick, Arod, etc, etc. but typing Thor instead of Syndergaard some guy has a hair across his ass about.
LOL.
Not easier than Noah
Rosarios offensive upside is to be determined but hes showing signs theres more to come for sure.
✔
@Joelsherman1
Key internal question #Mets are mulling: will top SS prospect Andres Giminez be ready for MLB later this season or 2020 making it more palatable to use Rosario to try to land Realmuto, plug short term with a Galvis/Iglesias defender. #Marlins
107
9:44 PM - Dec 11, 2018
Realmuto another situation where BVW may be letting his relationship with a former client cloud his judgement
Realmuto another situation where BVW may be letting his relationship with a former client cloud his judgement
Well you do give up the second pick and pool money. If you believe Shecky (I do) this Realmuto hard on is coming from Jeff and he's wanted him for more than a year now. If I had to guess, BVW is exhausting every scenario to make his new boss happy.
SNY
Verified account @SNYtv
4m4 minutes ago
"We know how much Brodie likes Realmuto, but we're starting to hear that he likes Grandal quite a bit as well" - @martinonyc
Van Wagenen was asked if the Mets could address catcher, reliever and outfielder - without a trade - all through free agency, if needed: "Free agents have a variety of price points," he said. "So if we were to add all through free agency, we have the ability to do that."
Quote:
Thor. Not saying they wont because its the Mets, but why on earth do you pull off the cano trade and then to turn around and weaken your rotation. He is a top five pitcher period, they dont grow on trees and you dont trade them for 3rdbasemen who cant field and have inflated power numbers from playing in Yankees stadium.
Can we please stop calling him Thor? These childish nicknames should be an embarrassment for Mets fans. Whats next? Dark Night? Oh wait...
Fool
OK, he had 15 errors and a .948 fielding percentage. But Andujar is very athletic and will improve.
But more to the point. You don't have that quite right about Andujar's bat. He is a line drive hitter with tremendous gap power. Last season, he had 47 doubles -- tied for third highest in the major leagues. And several of his 27 tatters were line drives as well.
My overwhelming preference is for the Mets to keep hold of Noah Syndergaard and for the Yanks to keep Andujar. But if the Mets somehow end up with Miguel Andujar, he will be their best hitter, Yankee Stadium or no Yankee Stadium.
Quote:
Thor. Not saying they wont because its the Mets, but why on earth do you pull off the cano trade and then to turn around and weaken your rotation. He is a top five pitcher period, they dont grow on trees and you dont trade them for 3rdbasemen who cant field and have inflated power numbers from playing in Yankees stadium.
OK, he had 15 errors and a .948 fielding percentage. But Andujar is very athletic and will improve.
But more to the point. You don't have that quite right about Andujar's bat. He is a line drive hitter with tremendous gap power. Last season, he had 47 doubles -- tied for third highest in the major leagues. And several of his 27 tatters were line drives as well.
My overwhelming preference is for the Mets to keep hold of Noah Syndergaard and for the Yanks to keep Andujar. But if the Mets somehow end up with Miguel Andujar, he will be their best hitter, Yankee Stadium or no Yankee Stadium.
Until he falls off a cliff (which can happen at any time). Robinson Cano is a better hitter than Miguel Andujar and it's not particularly close. Even in 2018 Cano out hit Andujar. 136 wRC+ for Cano, Andujar 128. Steamer projects Andujar for 114 in 2019 and Cano 118. Again, Cano can fall off tomorrow but until he does he'd be the best hitter on the Mets if they added Andujar
-King claims the Phillies are moving close to a deal with Happ
-Yankees met with Ottavino. I wanted the Mets to sign him. High risk, high reward.
But more to the point. You don't have that quite right about Andujar's bat. He is a line drive hitter with tremendous gap power. Last season, he had 47 doubles -- tied for third highest in the major leagues. And several of his 27 tatters were line drives as well.
My overwhelming preference is for the Mets to keep hold of Noah Syndergaard and for the Yanks to keep Andujar. But if the Mets somehow end up with Miguel Andujar, he will be their best hitter, Yankee Stadium or no Yankee Stadium.
This is a great point. He wasn't called Miggy Mantle for nothing. Andujar is the real deal in the batter's box. He makes lots of contact (16% k rate) and it is almost always solid contact. Many of those doubles were off the wall. Yes, he swings at too many balls (so did Yogi amd Vlad) so he can improve there and be more selective. If he cuts back at swinging at bad balls, he will be a .300 hitter with 30 hr capability. Last year he had 606 plate appearances, so the league had enough time to find his weak spots and adjust.
But just as real is his throwing, not so much fielding. He catches the ball, but has bad footwork and takes too much time to throw.
Quote:
In comment 14215243 bhill410 said:
Quote:
Thor. Not saying they wont because its the Mets, but why on earth do you pull off the cano trade and then to turn around and weaken your rotation. He is a top five pitcher period, they dont grow on trees and you dont trade them for 3rdbasemen who cant field and have inflated power numbers from playing in Yankees stadium.
OK, he had 15 errors and a .948 fielding percentage. But Andujar is very athletic and will improve.
But more to the point. You don't have that quite right about Andujar's bat. He is a line drive hitter with tremendous gap power. Last season, he had 47 doubles -- tied for third highest in the major leagues. And several of his 27 tatters were line drives as well.
My overwhelming preference is for the Mets to keep hold of Noah Syndergaard and for the Yanks to keep Andujar. But if the Mets somehow end up with Miguel Andujar, he will be their best hitter, Yankee Stadium or no Yankee Stadium.
Until he falls off a cliff (which can happen at any time). Robinson Cano is a better hitter than Miguel Andujar and it's not particularly close. Even in 2018 Cano out hit Andujar. 136 wRC+ for Cano, Andujar 128. Steamer projects Andujar for 114 in 2019 and Cano 118. Again, Cano can fall off tomorrow but until he does he'd be the best hitter on the Mets if they added Andujar
Definitely you can argue that Cano is still the better hitter, but that of course was hardly the main point of my response to bhill410. That is, Andujar is a significant gap hitter.
What it really means is that Cano has a steady, sterling track record over many seasons and the other is coming off his rookie season. I agree, as of right now, Cano is the better hitter. Until Andujar completes next season like the last one, Cano will be the better hitter(or Robbie crashes). Cano is an All Star quality player, still. But Andujar is 23, and never had a true slump of any sort last season. Teams may find his weak spot, but after 600 PAs last season, they didn't.
I think Andujar is the real deal at the plate.
I wonder if the Yankees are pretty much frozen in what they want to do until Machado's decision. If/when they agree to Machado, then a whole number of things happen around Andujar to be traded and frees everything up. Cashman and pretty much said he's not in on Harper, and he rarely "lies" directly like that in the press.
I think the reason so much is quiet is that Machado and Harper are the dominoes that everything else will fall once they move.
Quote:
"feeling" is that Machado will be a Yankee and Harper a Dodger.
I wonder if the Yankees are pretty much frozen in what they want to do until Machado's decision. If/when they agree to Machado, then a whole number of things happen around Andujar to be traded and frees everything up. Cashman and pretty much said he's not in on Harper, and he rarely "lies" directly like that in the press.
I think the reason so much is quiet is that Machado and Harper are the dominoes that everything else will fall once they move.
According to John Heyman, those 2 arent signing until January. The reason being neither wants to sign first only to have the other get more $$. Its a stare down to see who blinks first.
Quote:
In comment 14215581 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
"feeling" is that Machado will be a Yankee and Harper a Dodger.
I wonder if the Yankees are pretty much frozen in what they want to do until Machado's decision. If/when they agree to Machado, then a whole number of things happen around Andujar to be traded and frees everything up. Cashman and pretty much said he's not in on Harper, and he rarely "lies" directly like that in the press.
I think the reason so much is quiet is that Machado and Harper are the dominoes that everything else will fall once they move.
According to John Heyman, those 2 arent signing until January. The reason being neither wants to sign first only to have the other get more $$. Its a stare down to see who blinks first.
so 1 of them will sign today?
I think he's a stud and whoever signs him is going to get a lights out reliever. Mets are supposedly interested in him too. Hopefully Brodie has enough time to focus on some realistic upgrades rather than just blockbuster headline trades.
Quote:
suspect the Yankees sign him but Ottavino is a very intriguing addition. He and Robertson are my top 2 wants in the pen for the Mets.
I think he's a stud and whoever signs him is going to get a lights out reliever. Mets are supposedly interested in him too. Hopefully Brodie has enough time to focus on some realistic upgrades rather than just blockbuster headline trades.
There is a false narrative floating around that he has only had one season of success. Yes, 2018 was clearly his best season, however from 2013-2016 Ottavino over 170 games had a 2.84 era, had a poor 2017, reinvented himself with high speed cameras (really interesting stuff) and had a monster year. Even if he's a mix between 2018 and the pitcher he was 2013-2016 that's a big time RP in front of Diaz.
I'd prefer him to Miller. Miller also has the track record, but will be 34 next season and is coming off a year where he showed some real decline. Give me the younger guy who pitched at Coors if the costs are equal.
I'd prefer him to Miller. Miller also has the track record, but will be 34 next season and is coming off a year where he showed some real decline. Give me the younger guy who pitched at Coors if the costs are equal.
I too would take Ottavino over Miller. I actually have Miller 3rd. I still like Robertson a lot.
just awful.
We were terrified of Corbin's age 35 season, but all good with Happ's 36-38 years? garbage.
Meh on the 3 years but they needed another pitcher.
They probably aren't paying Haap nearly as much as they would have paid Corbin.
No agreement that should say
And just once I want a Mets beat writer to press Jeff Wilpon on his low budget.
@jaseidler
57m57 minutes ago
More Jarrett Seidler Retweeted Jon Heyman
heres the thing: the actual strong defender here is Grandal but based on who is calling shots I am pretty sure theyre going to think its Maldonado, who was that but probably isnt anymore, but still has the 8 arm that the old baseball man crew thinks is the key to catching
Why would the even Mets consider signing him? He seems like the type that would start in AAA and then get called up if you had multiple injuries. Would be pretty awful to start the season with him as our opening day Catcher.
Miami has nothing at 1B, want MLB ready, and I can't imagine there are too many guys on the top 100 lists more likely to have an impact next year than him. I'm sure they'd need another big piece and I'd probably be willing to include Mauricio too since he's so far away and such a crapshoot right now. I doubt they care much about Plawecki or Lugo but both are cheap and easy pieces to add - and from a war standpoint both are close to above replacement level.
The minor league system would obviously be gutted, but in doing so they've added 1 of the best catchers in baseball at a below market price the next 2 years. At 1B they can give Dom 1 more shot in tandem with Frazier. It's also opens up a move for Cano sooner if necessary.
With Realmuto they would no longer need to spend big money on a CF, they could just add a depth CF. Gives them enough money remaining for 2 big pieces in the BP. They also keep their 2nd round pick in this scenario which will hopefully allow them to also add another Vientos/Alonso/SWR type prospect in the draft. And down the line they can QO Realmuto and at least recoup a high pick if he bolts in 2 years.
Nimmo (RF)
McNeil (3B)
Realmuto (C)
Cano (2B)
Conforto (LF)
Frazier (1B)
Rosario (SS)
Lagares/whoever (CF)
Isn't that a curious line to draw while being willing to discuss McNeil, Nimmo, Conforto, Thor, and Rosario?
Agreed. If they make 3 additions like that in addition to what they've done it's a good offseason. That team would have a legitimate shot at 90 wins.
I wouldn't do the Mets offer much less the Marlins offer. Massive overpay for 2 years. Don't do it.
I wouldn't do the Mets offer much less the Marlins offer. Massive overpay for 2 years. Don't do it.
Wow talk about getting skull fucked if that's what they are willing to give up. You can see why all these teams want to trade with the Mets cause they know they can take advantage.
BVW looking like a horrible hire so far. Only thing that looks good is the front office signings.
None. You're looking at 92 ab's in the playoffs career. What's the logical argument? He forgot how to play? One swing where he hits a big HR and nobody remembers what he did previously. The Dodgers offered him the QO so pretty clearly they were okay with him accepting and coming back at nearly 18 million.
Ill be joining you and Im not even joking.
I wouldn't. Not with the available FA OF's. They met with Adam Jones. Do you realize how bad he's been? This team is going to roll with Freddy Galvis, Adam Jones and a P at 3/9 spots + an unproven Alonso, Juan Lagares and Todd Frazier? That's a nice 80 win squad.
Verified account
@BenBerkon
50s51 seconds ago
More Ben Berkon Retweeted Joel Sherman
If this happens, Mets will regret this trade for a long, long time.
And if you are a real fan of this team, you should question why Mets can't just sign Grandal, and KEEP Rosario/Nimmo/Peterson.
Note: there was only a 1.2 WAR difference between Realmuto and Grandal in '18!"
Brodie makes like he wants to be the big dog but just ends up looking like a little pup.
Quote:
but Nimmo/Peterson is something I'd accept.
I wouldn't. Not with the available FA OF's. They met with Adam Jones. Do you realize how bad he's been? This team is going to roll with Freddy Galvis, Adam Jones and a P at 3/9 spots + an unproven Alonso, Juan Lagares and Todd Frazier? That's a nice 80 win squad.
LOL Adam Jones. That would be awful.
#Marlins GM Mike Hill said slow process on Realmuto is because Mia has been trying to eliminate clubs, narrow field, but interest is so strong that it has been hard to do that.
Plus the factor that BVW seems to be willing to vastly overpay.
Carig says Sanchez was part of the Mets/Marlins/Yankee talks, Sanchez would have landed in Flushing.
Jarrett Seidler
@jaseidler
41m41 minutes ago
More
Realmuto, Adam Jones, and one of the shortstops being bandied about in place of Plawecki/TDA, Nimmo, and Rosario is a multiwin *2019* downgrade and completely fucked up for financials and future
Thinking/hoping you are right on this. Rosario/Nimmo+ for realmuto would definitely give me real pause as a Mets fan. Definitely would bail out on my plan seats. I'd be really, really pissed.
@adamgfisher
40s41 seconds ago
More
Replying to @WexlerRules
My head might explode.
Sounds like the Mets and Yankees had talks independent of the Marlins stuff. My guess is the Yankees probably considered an option where they signed Grandal (or traded for Realmuto) and moved Sanchez for someone like Zack Wheeler.
The Yankees were reportedly asking about both Wheeler and Syndergaard. The Mets certainly weren't trading Syndergaard for Sanchez but if the Yankees replaced Sanchez with Grandal (or even Ramos) or traded for Realmuto + Wheeler that certainly would have made the 2019 Yankees better on paper.
The Dodgers have Barnes at catcher who was the #1 catcher prospect in baseball a couple of years ago plus they also have two of the top 10 catcher prospects in all of baseball close to being ready. I think that's the reason they are willing to move on from Grandal not because of his poor playoff performance.
I get that Wheeler was tremendously impressive for the second half of last year, but the legend of Zack Wheeler with one year of control has gotten a bit inflated around these parts.
Even coming off of the most nightmarish 25-year old seasons imaginable last year, Sanchez is still one of the top assets in the game at his position when you look at the upside / cost control.
More likely that it was Sanchez as part of a package for Syndergaard.
I get that Wheeler was tremendously impressive for the second half of last year, but the legend of Zack Wheeler with one year of control has gotten a bit inflated around these parts.
Even coming off of the most nightmarish 25-year old seasons imaginable last year, Sanchez is still one of the top assets in the game at his position when you look at the upside / cost control.
More likely that it was Sanchez as part of a package for Syndergaard.
Again. Multiple sources say Syndergaard was never truly part of discussions beyond a cursory talk. You're looking at it as 1 for 1. But the Yankees with Grandal/Wheeler are certainly better than just Sanchez and Wheeler is cheap.
Severino, Paxton, Tanaka, Wheeler, Sabathia
C Realmuto/Grandal/Ramos
SS Manny Machado
3b Andujar
2b Torres
LF Stanton
CF Hicks
RF Judge
1b Voit
That's a loaded team
Snell, MadBum, Morton, Glasnow top 5, Font or Faria as the #5 and Honeywell and De Leon were top SP prospects coming back from TJ.
Yankees among the teams who have discussed Stroman
Still loaded. about equally as expensive. and you didn't sell extremely low on Sanchez. and you don't need to pay Wheeler full market value next year in the upside case. Downside cash is Wheeler turned back into a pumpkin and you got even more ass-pounded on that trade than you already thought you did.
Love these discussions, but Wheeler for Sanchez s/u is a non-starter for me, and I don't believe NYY would have come remotely close to doing that. If they did, I'm worried about what dumb shit they actually might do.
Red and Dodgers discussing a Kemp/Bailey deal.
Red and Dodgers discussing a Kemp/Bailey deal.
I don't know the intricacies of either contract, but that has to be a straight luxury tax play for LAD, right?
Red and Dodgers discussing a Kemp/Bailey deal.
The Reds are interested in Alex Wood. Perhaps the Dodgers are offering him to entice the Reds to take on Kemp's contract.
Ken Rosenthal
Verified account
@Ken_Rosenthal
30m30 minutes ago
More
#Reds, #Dodgers continue to talk. Kemp also part of conversations, sources say. Lots of names, lots of proposals. As noted yesterday, Bailey likely would go back to LAD.
Wheeler was one of the best pitchers in baseball since the all star break. Realmuto is one of the best catchers in baseball. And you want more talent for a guy who hit under the Mendoza line and had the most passed balls in either league despite missing significant time with injuries?
Quote:
For 1 year control of Wheeler and 2 years of Realmuto makes little sense unless Mets/Marlins were sending back more talent
Wheeler was one of the best pitchers in baseball since the all star break. Realmuto is one of the best catchers in baseball. And you want more talent for a guy who hit under the Mendoza line and had the most passed balls in either league despite missing significant time with injuries?
Youre undervaluing Sanchez here, which is only fair because of his season last year. But it just proves the point that trading Sanchez now, if the Yankees even want to at all, is a ridiculous notion being that his value is so low.
...with Dodgers.
Yanks fans favorite reliever.
Link - ( New Window )