haven't even Met with Happ or Morton and Wheeler is a FA after the year. PS why is everyone so sure Wheeler takes a team friendly deal if offered (they haven't had talks) but given Wheeler has proven himself to be one of the more cocky/self assured players on the team.. why is it a given he doesn't see Corbin have 1 great season, land 140 and believe in himself enough to land something "big" or hit FA? I think this idea he's taking some really team friendly deal is based on nada other than wishful thinking. This could be an absolute DISASTER. The Mets SP depth beyond their big 4 RIGHT NOW is very, very, very thin minus Dunn, Kilome and Crismatt.... Thor and then Wheeler a FA in a year... YEESH.
Max Wildstein
✔
@MaxWildstein
Source: Prospects being floated in a possible three-team trade involving #Mets, #Marlins by #Yankees are Clint Frazier, Jonathan Loaisiga, Mike King, Chance Adams, and Sonny Gray. It is still pretty early in process from vibe that I’m getting. There’s smoke, tho.
So, Ryan Church Part 2, a pitcher who can’t pitch in NY and a bunch of filler. Of course, the Yankees aren’t willing to part with actual good prospects for Thor. This is just another trade scenario where the Mets will probably lose.
If the plan is to sign Morton or Happ to replace Thor or Syndergaard... it's a bad one but far worse when you learn the Mets haven't met with either player whereas other teams have. The Phillies have been in "consistent dialogue" with Happ for example. What happens when Happ signs? Then what? You wouldn't have this second move already signed sealed and delivered?
I think one of them (Morton or Happ) can replace Thor, but they definitely can't replace Syndergaard.
...some team will have to drop a TON of gold to get Noah Syndergaard. Needs to be at minimum two high-end position players and a budding minor league star. Short of that, don't touch any deal.
But here's a better solution: Just keep Syndergaard and pay the man when the time comes.
Mets fans deserve to see this guy remain a Met.
Period.
ps The Mets would be out of their minds to let him pitch for the Yanks.
I would also assume that the Yankees risk adjust their time when it comes to dealing with Angelos, Wilpon, Pittsburgh and a few others who make decisions out of fear more than conviction or analysis no matter what their FO tells them
trade a player to the Yankees. I just don't think the names floated so far have been close to enough.
This would be similar to Chris Sale, not quite, but similar.
Noah has 3 full season of cost control, so did Sale.
Sale was maybe a little more established, but Syndergaard would be 2 years younger (just about) at the time of the trade.
I would not do this trade in a Realmuto threesome, that confuses things, but I'd trade him (anyone is available for the right price), but I haven't seen anything close to the right price.
Catcher is such a black hole position - the Red Sox won the WS with catchers who had a worse WAR than Plawecki and Mesoraco.
The year before the Astros won with a very pedestrian Brian McCann (and his 13% CS and 1.7 fWAR)
In 2016 Miguel Montero was brutal for the Cubs and so was ancient David Ross.
You don't need Gary Carter or Mike Piazza behind the plate to win in this era. I'd rather simply get the best defensive catcher and just consider any offense gravy.
and that’s how I see it with the Yankees. Give Sanchez 1 more shot at turning things around but if he can’t handle getting better at both catching and correcting his hitting, completely remove him as a C, get a full time defensive C and move Sanchez to DH or trade him.
I don't think this trade goes through but the positive is Â
that the Mets and Yankees are actually in a serious negotiation and not letting the cross town rivalry prevent them from conducting business. I am on the Mets side of things but am not naive that the Yankees are a flagship team and the Mets need to get an identity,
We may need an OF, how is this Judge guy that the Yankees have?
(I am obviously joking before I get LOL'd to death).
Trading Thor for a catcher is a total "spin wheels in place" move. Â
up Thor, the Mets need to get back Realmuto and Hicks. Yankees pay full cost of Realmuto (prospects/young talent as well).
For Mets, trade would be Thor for Realmuto and Hicks. For Yankees, Hicks plus prospects for Thor. Mets would then continue going all-in and deal for Kluber (likely emptying out most of what's left in the farm).
Not sure I'd even like this deal, but we need more than Realmuto coming back if Thor is going out.
that these winter meetings are out in Vegas; radio silence in the morning due to the 3 hour time difference, then pandemonium while sleeping on the east coast.
Tim Healey
✔
@timbhealey
Mets & Yankees have talked about versions of a three-way deal involving Marlins that would send Realmuto to the Mets & Syndergaard to the Yankees, sources confirm.
A deal is not close, and frankly seems pretty unlikely.
But Brodie Van Wagenen is clearly willing to be creative.
I also saw another blog, where it was stated that the 3-way deal involving the Yanks, wasn't the best offer that has been presented to the Mets.
the "mystery owner" that flew in to meet with Harper?
No. Jeff did fly in but the Mets have no plans to meet with Harper. Jeff is there in case they need to sign off on a move. Many believe Miller may happen. Sounds like Britton will not.
It's one thing for them to deal seeming disappointing contracts like Robin Ventura for David Justice (and Ventura turned into an All Star for the Yankees).
Or a late season Frank Tanana trade (for you old timers who remember).
If Thor returns to being an ace and helps the Yankees win a Championship, it will be another gut punch to the Mets. I can't see them doing this.
Yankees will sign Happ. Tool around with Machado, but if they can't work that out, Hal will be just fine and dandy putting the money back in his pocket. He should just sell the team already like it's been rumored. He's not his father, we know that.
the "mystery owner" that flew in to meet with Harper?
No. Jeff did fly in but the Mets have no plans to meet with Harper. Jeff is there in case they need to sign off on a move. Many believe Miller may happen. Sounds like Britton will not.
the "mystery owner" that flew in to meet with Harper?
No. Jeff did fly in but the Mets have no plans to meet with Harper. Jeff is there in case they need to sign off on a move. Many believe Miller may happen. Sounds like Britton will not.
What do you think Miller is looking for $$ wise?
Really hard to say. People are suggesting 12-13 per season but Kimbrel is supposedly asking for 6 years so who knows what the FA market brings.
It's one thing for them to deal seeming disappointing contracts like Robin Ventura for David Justice (and Ventura turned into an All Star for the Yankees).
Or a late season Frank Tanana trade (for you old timers who remember).
If Thor returns to being an ace and helps the Yankees win a Championship, it will be another gut punch to the Mets. I can't see them doing this.
Yankees will sign Happ. Tool around with Machado, but if they can't work that out, Hal will be just fine and dandy putting the money back in his pocket. He should just sell the team already like it's been rumored. He's not his father, we know that.
I get the impression Hal is trying to implement some form of Money-Ball
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWAR’s last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
discussing Wheeler, on their own, separate from anything with Miami.
Wheeler for Frazier and Loaisiga.
Yanks get to make sure Wheeler is for real on the cheap before making the decision to pay him next year. His upside is potentially a 1a/2 starter after Severino in Yanks rotation.
Frazier is a very good prospect with some health question marks but still very good upside. Loaisiga allows the Mets to keep some SP depth. Mets focus on paying and building around Jake and Thor.
Its speculation on a thread about speculation so taking Matt's comments further:
Businesses are sold and bought by multiplying the recent bottom line x the number of years you think it can be repeated x a risk adjustment up or down. Obviously, in sports there is a "prestige adjustment" some buyers are willing to pay
So if you are going to sell, first you prepare to sell by capturing the potential for future bottom line income and prestige at the most cost managed position you can take.
So are the Yankees being "positioned" for sale? We shall see.
Makes much more sense at Hals age to sell minority percentages and buy them back so you can sell the same franchise more than once or use the profits from the Yankees and then buy back 100% of the YES Network...so who knows? They are advised by Goldman Sachs so all sorts of creative ways to monetize the family's stake are possible
not shitting on Andujar here but it wouldn't be the worst idea for them to sell high. Defense/walk rate.. I'm not saying he's not good but if someone was open to him as a headliner for a big SP etc it's a no-brainer to me. Also Evan Roberts "proposed" 3 way is moronic. Thank You.
Sign JDG to a 5 year extension.
Instead of signing a back end FA starter, sign Wheeler to a 3 year extension w/ AAV just under what Eovoldi got.
If Thor is willing to take a Carrasco type deal now, great, otherwise sign him to an extension next offseason.
Cross fingers that 2/3 are healthy and pitching well heading into October.
but teams are aware of the asking price and there are a plethora of teams still interested. That should tell you something.
I think the Yanks are playing this smart. Make it known that Andujar isn't available and he's a part of the future. Teams want what they can't have. Then make him available in the last minute to save other prospects. Then sign MM(assuming they know his asking price and are in the ballpark).
For the Mets, it doesn't seem like enough for me and I don't understand their willingness to give up Noah when they clearly have a 2-3 year window.
For the Yankees, I know a lot won't agree, but I would be all in on Wheeler too. He will cost a lot less and adds a level of risk, but the reward is higher than Syndergaard, IMO.
I know he sucks offensively but if they have to sign Maldonado Â
to afford locking up Wheeler + JDG + Thor then so be it. I'd prefer Cervelli if they have to go less expensive, but out of every position C is the easiest to compromise offense for defense. Plawecki's development isn't hopeless either, he still has a chance - especially offensively.
He's involved with every FA and trade possibility and it's not just smoke and mirrors. Not saying that the decisions will be right(I think the Seattle trade was a potentially bad move), but he's making sure that he's aware of every asking price so he can evaluate and see if it makes the Mets better. I also think he's smart to work with the Yankees. An unwillingness to work with a team that can help you get better because you don't want to help them is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I guess its the durability concerns, but its not like Thor is throwing 250 innings/year either.
I really hope Mets hold onto ZW - he turned a corner last year big time. Matz also showed improvement, but I'm still not quite convinced there and I think he'd get shelled in the AL East anyway so if I am Cashman I pass there.
He's involved with every FA and trade possibility and it's not just smoke and mirrors. Not saying that the decisions will be right(I think the Seattle trade was a potentially bad move), but he's making sure that he's aware of every asking price so he can evaluate and see if it makes the Mets better. I also think he's smart to work with the Yankees. An unwillingness to work with a team that can help you get better because you don't want to help them is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I agree with this - I applaud his creativity and activity, just hope he also shows good judgement. Seattle move was highly volatile - hoping the next move he makes is less so.
I agree about Wheeler, but it's def the injury concerns. Forget the innings, look at what the injuries actually were. NS has had a finger and lat issue compared to Wheeler who has had multiple elbow(and i think shoulder?) injuries.
I agree about Wheeler, but it's def the injury concerns. Forget the innings, look at what the injuries actually were. NS has had a finger and lat issue compared to Wheeler who has had multiple elbow(and i think shoulder?) injuries.
Correct - Wheeler also had an irregular recovery from TJS where he had to get shutdown for a 2nd season. Eovaldi provides a very good comp because he's same age, similarly had injury issues, high end talent, and this year it clicked. I have to believe a good number of the teams who were interested in Eovaldi as a starter would be willing to spend similar $ on Wheeler.
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWAR’s last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Andujar has more power than Mcneil and obviously younger Â
but Mcneil's bat is real as well. You don't post a k rate under 10% by accident. His contact skills are legitimate. Less power obviously caps longer term upside, but he can hit.
I agree about Wheeler, but it's def the injury concerns. Forget the innings, look at what the injuries actually were. NS has had a finger and lat issue compared to Wheeler who has had multiple elbow(and i think shoulder?) injuries.
Correct - Wheeler also had an irregular recovery from TJS where he had to get shutdown for a 2nd season. Eovaldi provides a very good comp because he's same age, similarly had injury issues, high end talent, and this year it clicked. I have to believe a good number of the teams who were interested in Eovaldi as a starter would be willing to spend similar $ on Wheeler.
Yeah but Wheelers sample size was much bigger, no? Wheeler was dominant in the second half of the season, Eovaldi had a great postseason.
Off topic but...Maldonado is... 32. "Under CSAA, framing ability peaks around age 25, declines gradually until about 32, and then starts falling off a cliff, although certain catchers (the Jose Molinas of the world) hold on to the ability longer than most." https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/25514/moving-beyond-wowy-a-mixed-approach-to-measuring-catcher-framing/
I agree about Wheeler, but it's def the injury concerns. Forget the innings, look at what the injuries actually were. NS has had a finger and lat issue compared to Wheeler who has had multiple elbow(and i think shoulder?) injuries.
Correct - Wheeler also had an irregular recovery from TJS where he had to get shutdown for a 2nd season. Eovaldi provides a very good comp because he's same age, similarly had injury issues, high end talent, and this year it clicked. I have to believe a good number of the teams who were interested in Eovaldi as a starter would be willing to spend similar $ on Wheeler.
Yeah but Wheelers sample size was much bigger, no? Wheeler was dominant in the second half of the season, Eovaldi had a great postseason.
Correct - Eovaldi has never been as good as Wheeler was in the 2nd half, but he has been more consistent generally and more productive over his career. The year of control obviously hurts Wheeler's negotiating position at the moment compared to Eovaldi who peaked right before FA, if they were both free Wheeler might be able to get more. But he's not so I think it would be reasonable for both sides to do a similar or slightly lesser AAV deal now.
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWAR’s last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Silly? Is this just a thought you have or do you actually have experience with the two players?
There is a 3 year age gap - but because McNeil went to college they have the same number of pro seasons, and Andujar has more power, but from an OPS+ standpoint the bats are very similar.
McNeil has been injured throughout his minor league career, but he's got a career .818 OPS (6 seasons).
Off topic but...Maldonado is... 32. "Under CSAA, framing ability peaks around age 25, declines gradually until about 32, and then starts falling off a cliff, although certain catchers (the Jose Molinas of the world) hold on to the ability longer than most." https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/25514/moving-beyond-wowy-a-mixed-approach-to-measuring-catcher-framing/
I know - but even pricing in regression his numbers last year still have a claim to being the best defensive catcher available other than Grandal and probably the best thrower - which is generally not that important but with pitchers like Syndergaard who have a major weakness slowing down the running game has amplified value. Trust me, I get that he's not every day starter quality and going to hit 8th and do it poorly. But I think he adds things defensively that help and if he saves money to invest other places vs. making a silly deal for Realmuto so be it.
RE: RE: I really don’t even know why the Mets would Â
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWAR’s last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Actually, although a smaller sample, McNeil was a much better hitter than Andujar as well... also both rookies so the flash in the pan stuff works both ways.
we really trying to compare minor league OPS' of Andujar and McNeil? One started his minor league career as a 21 year old out of college and one started his as a 17 year old out of the Dominican Republic...
we really trying to compare minor league OPS' of Andujar and McNeil? One started his minor league career as a 21 year old out of college and one started his as a 17 year old out of the Dominican Republic...
I’ve never understood this logic. McNeil literally was playing another sport. He started baseball much later than most players. Does starting the game older give you some sort of an advantage I’m unaware of?
A big NO on Matz.
A legit MAYBE on Wheeler.
No
✔
@MaxWildstein
Source: Prospects being floated in a possible three-team trade involving #Mets, #Marlins by #Yankees are Clint Frazier, Jonathan Loaisiga, Mike King, Chance Adams, and Sonny Gray. It is still pretty early in process from vibe that I’m getting. There’s smoke, tho.
So, Ryan Church Part 2, a pitcher who can’t pitch in NY and a bunch of filler. Of course, the Yankees aren’t willing to part with actual good prospects for Thor. This is just another trade scenario where the Mets will probably lose.
and possibilities, Cashman has this slotted as worth the right amount of attention
I think one of them (Morton or Happ) can replace Thor, but they definitely can't replace Syndergaard.
...some team will have to drop a TON of gold to get Noah Syndergaard. Needs to be at minimum two high-end position players and a budding minor league star. Short of that, don't touch any deal.
But here's a better solution: Just keep Syndergaard and pay the man when the time comes.
Mets fans deserve to see this guy remain a Met.
Period.
ps The Mets would be out of their minds to let him pitch for the Yanks.
I would also assume that the Yankees risk adjust their time when it comes to dealing with Angelos, Wilpon, Pittsburgh and a few others who make decisions out of fear more than conviction or analysis no matter what their FO tells them
This would be similar to Chris Sale, not quite, but similar.
Noah has 3 full season of cost control, so did Sale.
Sale was maybe a little more established, but Syndergaard would be 2 years younger (just about) at the time of the trade.
I would not do this trade in a Realmuto threesome, that confuses things, but I'd trade him (anyone is available for the right price), but I haven't seen anything close to the right price.
Catcher is such a black hole position - the Red Sox won the WS with catchers who had a worse WAR than Plawecki and Mesoraco.
The year before the Astros won with a very pedestrian Brian McCann (and his 13% CS and 1.7 fWAR)
In 2016 Miguel Montero was brutal for the Cubs and so was ancient David Ross.
You don't need Gary Carter or Mike Piazza behind the plate to win in this era. I'd rather simply get the best defensive catcher and just consider any offense gravy.
We may need an OF, how is this Judge guy that the Yankees have?
(I am obviously joking before I get LOL'd to death).
For Mets, trade would be Thor for Realmuto and Hicks. For Yankees, Hicks plus prospects for Thor. Mets would then continue going all-in and deal for Kluber (likely emptying out most of what's left in the farm).
Not sure I'd even like this deal, but we need more than Realmuto coming back if Thor is going out.
Tim Healey
✔
@timbhealey
Mets & Yankees have talked about versions of a three-way deal involving Marlins that would send Realmuto to the Mets & Syndergaard to the Yankees, sources confirm.
A deal is not close, and frankly seems pretty unlikely.
But Brodie Van Wagenen is clearly willing to be creative.
No. Jeff did fly in but the Mets have no plans to meet with Harper. Jeff is there in case they need to sign off on a move. Many believe Miller may happen. Sounds like Britton will not.
It's one thing for them to deal seeming disappointing contracts like Robin Ventura for David Justice (and Ventura turned into an All Star for the Yankees).
Or a late season Frank Tanana trade (for you old timers who remember).
If Thor returns to being an ace and helps the Yankees win a Championship, it will be another gut punch to the Mets. I can't see them doing this.
Yankees will sign Happ. Tool around with Machado, but if they can't work that out, Hal will be just fine and dandy putting the money back in his pocket. He should just sell the team already like it's been rumored. He's not his father, we know that.
Quote:
the "mystery owner" that flew in to meet with Harper?
No. Jeff did fly in but the Mets have no plans to meet with Harper. Jeff is there in case they need to sign off on a move. Many believe Miller may happen. Sounds like Britton will not.
What do you think Miller is looking for $$ wise?
Quote:
In comment 14214232 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
the "mystery owner" that flew in to meet with Harper?
No. Jeff did fly in but the Mets have no plans to meet with Harper. Jeff is there in case they need to sign off on a move. Many believe Miller may happen. Sounds like Britton will not.
What do you think Miller is looking for $$ wise?
Really hard to say. People are suggesting 12-13 per season but Kimbrel is supposedly asking for 6 years so who knows what the FA market brings.
It's one thing for them to deal seeming disappointing contracts like Robin Ventura for David Justice (and Ventura turned into an All Star for the Yankees).
Or a late season Frank Tanana trade (for you old timers who remember).
If Thor returns to being an ace and helps the Yankees win a Championship, it will be another gut punch to the Mets. I can't see them doing this.
Yankees will sign Happ. Tool around with Machado, but if they can't work that out, Hal will be just fine and dandy putting the money back in his pocket. He should just sell the team already like it's been rumored. He's not his father, we know that.
Wheeler for Frazier and Loaisiga.
Yanks get to make sure Wheeler is for real on the cheap before making the decision to pay him next year. His upside is potentially a 1a/2 starter after Severino in Yanks rotation.
Frazier is a very good prospect with some health question marks but still very good upside. Loaisiga allows the Mets to keep some SP depth. Mets focus on paying and building around Jake and Thor.
Businesses are sold and bought by multiplying the recent bottom line x the number of years you think it can be repeated x a risk adjustment up or down. Obviously, in sports there is a "prestige adjustment" some buyers are willing to pay
So if you are going to sell, first you prepare to sell by capturing the potential for future bottom line income and prestige at the most cost managed position you can take.
So are the Yankees being "positioned" for sale? We shall see.
Makes much more sense at Hals age to sell minority percentages and buy them back so you can sell the same franchise more than once or use the profits from the Yankees and then buy back 100% of the YES Network...so who knows? They are advised by Goldman Sachs so all sorts of creative ways to monetize the family's stake are possible
Instead of signing a back end FA starter, sign Wheeler to a 3 year extension w/ AAV just under what Eovoldi got.
If Thor is willing to take a Carrasco type deal now, great, otherwise sign him to an extension next offseason.
Cross fingers that 2/3 are healthy and pitching well heading into October.
I think the Yanks are playing this smart. Make it known that Andujar isn't available and he's a part of the future. Teams want what they can't have. Then make him available in the last minute to save other prospects. Then sign MM(assuming they know his asking price and are in the ballpark).
For the Mets, it doesn't seem like enough for me and I don't understand their willingness to give up Noah when they clearly have a 2-3 year window.
For the Yankees, I know a lot won't agree, but I would be all in on Wheeler too. He will cost a lot less and adds a level of risk, but the reward is higher than Syndergaard, IMO.
I really hope Mets hold onto ZW - he turned a corner last year big time. Matz also showed improvement, but I'm still not quite convinced there and I think he'd get shelled in the AL East anyway so if I am Cashman I pass there.
I agree with this - I applaud his creativity and activity, just hope he also shows good judgement. Seattle move was highly volatile - hoping the next move he makes is less so.
Correct - Wheeler also had an irregular recovery from TJS where he had to get shutdown for a 2nd season. Eovaldi provides a very good comp because he's same age, similarly had injury issues, high end talent, and this year it clicked. I have to believe a good number of the teams who were interested in Eovaldi as a starter would be willing to spend similar $ on Wheeler.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Quote:
I agree about Wheeler, but it's def the injury concerns. Forget the innings, look at what the injuries actually were. NS has had a finger and lat issue compared to Wheeler who has had multiple elbow(and i think shoulder?) injuries.
Correct - Wheeler also had an irregular recovery from TJS where he had to get shutdown for a 2nd season. Eovaldi provides a very good comp because he's same age, similarly had injury issues, high end talent, and this year it clicked. I have to believe a good number of the teams who were interested in Eovaldi as a starter would be willing to spend similar $ on Wheeler.
Yeah but Wheelers sample size was much bigger, no? Wheeler was dominant in the second half of the season, Eovaldi had a great postseason.
Quote:
In comment 14214351 Keith said:
Quote:
I agree about Wheeler, but it's def the injury concerns. Forget the innings, look at what the injuries actually were. NS has had a finger and lat issue compared to Wheeler who has had multiple elbow(and i think shoulder?) injuries.
Correct - Wheeler also had an irregular recovery from TJS where he had to get shutdown for a 2nd season. Eovaldi provides a very good comp because he's same age, similarly had injury issues, high end talent, and this year it clicked. I have to believe a good number of the teams who were interested in Eovaldi as a starter would be willing to spend similar $ on Wheeler.
Yeah but Wheelers sample size was much bigger, no? Wheeler was dominant in the second half of the season, Eovaldi had a great postseason.
Correct - Eovaldi has never been as good as Wheeler was in the 2nd half, but he has been more consistent generally and more productive over his career. The year of control obviously hurts Wheeler's negotiating position at the moment compared to Eovaldi who peaked right before FA, if they were both free Wheeler might be able to get more. But he's not so I think it would be reasonable for both sides to do a similar or slightly lesser AAV deal now.
Quote:
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWAR’s last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Silly? Is this just a thought you have or do you actually have experience with the two players?
There is a 3 year age gap - but because McNeil went to college they have the same number of pro seasons, and Andujar has more power, but from an OPS+ standpoint the bats are very similar.
McNeil has been injured throughout his minor league career, but he's got a career .818 OPS (6 seasons).
Andujar has a career .754 OPS (7 seasons).
I know - but even pricing in regression his numbers last year still have a claim to being the best defensive catcher available other than Grandal and probably the best thrower - which is generally not that important but with pitchers like Syndergaard who have a major weakness slowing down the running game has amplified value. Trust me, I get that he's not every day starter quality and going to hit 8th and do it poorly. But I think he adds things defensively that help and if he saves money to invest other places vs. making a silly deal for Realmuto so be it.
Quote:
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWAR’s last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Actually, although a smaller sample, McNeil was a much better hitter than Andujar as well... also both rookies so the flash in the pan stuff works both ways.
I’ve never understood this logic. McNeil literally was playing another sport. He started baseball much later than most players. Does starting the game older give you some sort of an advantage I’m unaware of?