Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWARs last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Actually, although a smaller sample, McNeil was a much better hitter than Andujar as well... also both rookies so the flash in the pan stuff works both ways.
I like McNeil a lot; he's on my dynasty fbb team and he helped me a ton. He wasn't a better hitter, and he definitely wasn't a "much better" hitter.
McNeil .852 OPS on the back of a .359 BABIP.
Andujar .855 OPS (.316 BABIP).
Not saying anything about the absurd trade ideas and etc. Obviously these intertwined conversations between NYY/NYM have a tendency to get a little bit chippy...we can all help do our part in avoiding that by not saying ridiculous shit.
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWARs last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Silly? Is this just a thought you have or do you actually have experience with the two players?
There is a 3 year age gap - but because McNeil went to college they have the same number of pro seasons, and Andujar has more power, but from an OPS+ standpoint the bats are very similar.
McNeil has been injured throughout his minor league career, but he's got a career .818 OPS (6 seasons).
Andujar has a career .754 OPS (7 seasons).
7 seasons? .754 OPS?
Not sure who's numbers you're looking at, but they aren't Miguels.
What is the extensive injury history for Syndagaard? That is simply not true. His arm hasnt had any serious injuries. And this guy has the potential to be a cy young winner. Where else are you getting that? Dont trade this guy.
Just sign Grandal. When did Realmuto become Piazza and Pudge combined. Why cant they Mets just sign a couple players they dont need to trade talent for!
And this inflated value of Andujar is nuts. I dont get it.
it's one thing to do it over 250 AB's and another thing to do it over 550 AB's. Andujar is a legit hitter. Dude had 47 doubles and 27 HR's as a rookie and consistently hit the ball hard. There's a reason the Yankees don't want to include him in any discussions.
apparently being shopped. Roark isn't even particularly good. Last 2 seasons 4.20 FIP. 1 year of control. The teams in on Sonny Gray likely are the same who would have interest in Roark.
@Ken_Rosenthal
7m7 minutes ago
More
Name to watch with #Yankees: Miguel Andjar. Rival execs tell me and @ByRobertMurray NYY open to moving him. Would make sense as #Marlins ask for Realmuto; MIA wants established young MLB player as headliner. Also would line up with NYY pursuit of Machado. Torres could play SS.
People can shit on Andujar's defense, but his bat is for real, and will get better. If the Yankees are making him available, that means the Machado stuff is probably heating up.
If the Yankees walk away with Thor and Machado as part of all of this, the Yankees are going to be the trendy pick to win it all next year.
Andujar and McNeil are completely different hitters
The bat was never a concern with Andujar it was always his defense that was the question. McNeil burst onto the scene last year but he needs to display his progress over a larger sample before I will fully buy in. He did have a high BABIP but he still has a great walk rate and low k rate. This year will be key for him assuming he isnt relegated to the bench.
@Ken_Rosenthal
7m7 minutes ago
More
Name to watch with #Yankees: Miguel Andjar. Rival execs tell me and @ByRobertMurray NYY open to moving him. Would make sense as #Marlins ask for Realmuto; MIA wants established young MLB player as headliner. Also would line up with NYY pursuit of Machado. Torres could play SS.
People can shit on Andujar's defense, but his bat is for real, and will get better. If the Yankees are making him available, that means the Machado stuff is probably heating up.
If the Yankees walk away with Thor and Machado as part of all of this, the Yankees are going to be the trendy pick to win it all next year.
Well put Matt on Andujar. But if the Yanks get Thor and Machado, it won't be trendy. They are already considered a leading team for the WS next year. So adding those two won't make it trendy, but probably favorites. (maybe I nitpicked here)
And this inflated value of Andujar is nuts. I dont get it.
Of course you don't get it, you think your Roy Hobbs at 3b is a budding superstar. Enjoy the BAbip regression.
McNeil will likely regress some, but he does have a consistent track record in the minors. Injuries had derailed his career until now and hopefully are behind him.
but he didn't exactly come out of nowhere.
And he's 27 before next season while Andujar is 24 (there are less than 3 years difference between them), it's not like people are calling him grandpa.
does BABIP matter or NAH? or I suppose McNeil's just such a machine that he's going to continue putting out .360+?
Baghdad Z doing Baghdad Z things.
Much better is a matter of perspective I guess. Almost a 10% swing in OPS+/wRC+ land is the difference between a Jay Bruce and a Yoenis Cespedes so yeah... that can be significant. I also prefaced what I was saying with I totally get McNeil had a smaller sample. I also agree McNeils BABIP was a high... a guy that puts a lot of balls in play sometimes will have a higher BABIP but it bears watching. Andujar has signs of regression as well. I actually expect McNeil to hit more power in the majors than he showed after he fully adjusts but his OPS will come down some. Either way... Andujar wasnt a better hitter in their rookie seasons and his defense is atrocious. I see no reason why the Mets would want him.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
Can't imagine this is accurate. Yankees win big here, Mets win too, and Marlins lose in a yuuuge way.
Agreed - if Andujar is getting dealt it's to the Marlins. He seems like the exact type of player they want and we all know they are more likely to rate assets from the NYY system well. Andujar + something to the Marlins, a SP to the Yankees, and Realmuto to the mets makes logical sense, which scares me as a met fan bc out of every potential asset in that deal (including Wheeler) I think Realmuto is the most overrated by a healthy margin.
That proposed return seems awfully light for the Marlins.
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
seems like a moron as an owner but that's an atrocious trade. Ryder Green was a 3rd round pick this year and did not have a good debut. That's not to say he sucks but his stock certainly is not "up". So a third round pick prospect who is what? 4 years away? 5? And Frazier coming off a lost season and whos stock is down for Realmuto? If that's all it would cost the Yankees would just deal with the Marlins directly. I know they have Sanchez but that's a heist. Not happening.
RE: It would be funny to see Andujar go to the Mets now
Pre-Trade "I don't understand why the minor league stats of a 17 year old is not directly comparable to a 21 year old college player"
After "You know the number of errors Andujar has committed each season has gone down from 26 to 15 from when he was 19 years old to now; by the time he's McNeils age hes on pace to be have like 5 a year"
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
Sonny Gray says hello ;) . Yankees would send Sonny to Flushing.
RE: RE: It would be funny to see Andujar go to the Mets now
Pre-Trade "I don't understand why the minor league stats of a 17 year old is not directly comparable to a 21 year old college player"
After "You know the number of errors Andujar has committed each season has gone down from 26 to 15 from when he was 19 years old to now; by the time he's McNeils age hes on pace to be have like 5 a year"
I don't think anyone shit on Andujar. Some Mets fans simply said Andujar's bat is not "in a different league" from Jeff McNeil's.
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
unless you flip the Mets 2nd piece in the trade (Andujar or whoever it is) and Gimenez to Cleveland for Kluber (or someone else)
Only reason I can see the Mets trading Thor is because they either dont want to pay him and Degrom next year or they anticipate injury.
this would all make sense in that they would hold Florial, who they want to keep. They would pass on Harper and look to cobble together one more season of Gardner to make sure he isn't blocked. Andujar as a trade chip selling very high to bring back a top end starter and then use the money to sign Machado seems to be the right move.
And the Yankees will trade Gray, perhaps in a Mets deal, or for prospects to recoup the farm a bit.
If this trade comes to fruition then watch Brodie go out and get Kluber
4 team trade!!!!!!
But seriously even getting Kluber won't change the math on JTR <<<< Thor. If they can get Kluber on a fair deal do it and keep Thor.
Wheeler (by proxy) for JTR makes some sense if they have some alternative SP pitching options lined up since Wheeler isn't under contract beyond next season and you will have to pay him close to FA prices anyway.
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
Sonny Gray says hello ;) . Yankees would send Sonny to Flushing.
Perfect. Has stunk for a few seasons now, a FA after the season and his own GM noted he couldn't handle the market. Perfect Met.
Gray and Realmuto make 10 million more than Syndergaard. Makes absolutely no sense. Not trying to rile up the Yankee fans but Sonny Gray is a mediocre MLB pitcher. Last 3 seasons era+ of 93, and that includes his time in Oakland so it's not just "well Yankee stadium!!"
Gray and Realmuto make 10 million more than Syndergaard. Makes absolutely no sense. Not trying to rile up the Yankee fans but Sonny Gray is a mediocre MLB pitcher. Last 3 seasons era+ of 93, and that includes his time in Oakland so it's not just "well Yankee stadium!!"
Nothing about a team trying to "win now" trading Syndergaard would make sense short of Kris Bryant or Trout.
Quote:
In comment 14214302 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWARs last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Actually, although a smaller sample, McNeil was a much better hitter than Andujar as well... also both rookies so the flash in the pan stuff works both ways.
I like McNeil a lot; he's on my dynasty fbb team and he helped me a ton. He wasn't a better hitter, and he definitely wasn't a "much better" hitter.
McNeil .852 OPS on the back of a .359 BABIP.
Andujar .855 OPS (.316 BABIP).
Not saying anything about the absurd trade ideas and etc. Obviously these intertwined conversations between NYY/NYM have a tendency to get a little bit chippy...we can all help do our part in avoiding that by not saying ridiculous shit.
Andujar wRC+ 128
League and park adjustments matter.
Quote:
In comment 14214302 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Want Andujar at all. Is he better than McNeil who is already going to be competing for 3B as it is? Identical fWARs last year only McNeil did in less than half the games. No thanks.
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's- its the defense that makes up the difference in numbers. Don't know if Andujar can improve defensively or not- but the bat is real.
Silly? Is this just a thought you have or do you actually have experience with the two players?
There is a 3 year age gap - but because McNeil went to college they have the same number of pro seasons, and Andujar has more power, but from an OPS+ standpoint the bats are very similar.
McNeil has been injured throughout his minor league career, but he's got a career .818 OPS (6 seasons).
Andujar has a career .754 OPS (7 seasons).
7 seasons? .754 OPS?
Not sure who's numbers you're looking at, but they aren't Miguels.
I wasn't upset, just questioning the poster.
The comment that was probably inflammatory (to some people) was this one (besides the "much" better comment which came later)
Just sign Grandal. When did Realmuto become Piazza and Pudge combined. Why cant they Mets just sign a couple players they dont need to trade talent for!
And this inflated value of Andujar is nuts. I dont get it.
Andujar wRC+ 128
League and park adjustments matter.
so, "much better", right?
does BABIP matter or NAH? or I suppose McNeil's just such a machine that he's going to continue putting out .360+?
Baghdad Z doing Baghdad Z things.
I wasn't upset, just questioning the poster.
The comment that was probably inflammatory (to some people) was this one (besides the "much" better comment which came later)
Quote:
This is silly. McNeil's bat isn't even in the same league as Andujar's
I don't really have an issue with anything you said. Z just gets so ridiculous during these conversations that it's too much to ignore.
And this inflated value of Andujar is nuts. I dont get it.
Of course you don't get it, you think your Roy Hobbs at 3b is a budding superstar. Enjoy the BAbip regression.
Do you always flat-out make up quotes? Bizarre.
It's basically done.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
It's basically done.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
Ha.
And the guy who is tight with someone tight with Cashman says Harper to the Yanks is gonna happen.
Well see I guess.
Verified account
@Ken_Rosenthal
7m7 minutes ago
More
Name to watch with #Yankees: Miguel Andjar. Rival execs tell me and @ByRobertMurray NYY open to moving him. Would make sense as #Marlins ask for Realmuto; MIA wants established young MLB player as headliner. Also would line up with NYY pursuit of Machado. Torres could play SS.
People can shit on Andujar's defense, but his bat is for real, and will get better. If the Yankees are making him available, that means the Machado stuff is probably heating up.
If the Yankees walk away with Thor and Machado as part of all of this, the Yankees are going to be the trendy pick to win it all next year.
It's basically done.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
I find this hard to believe - but if the Yanks do this, they need to turn around and ink Machado.
It's basically done.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
Can't imagine this is accurate. Yankees win big here, Mets win too, and Marlins lose in a yuuuge way.
Quote:
Grain of salt
It's basically done.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
I find this hard to believe - but if the Yanks do this, they need to turn around and ink Machado.
I doubt Cash does this unless hes supremely confident Machado is sitting under the tree on Christmas morning.
Quote:
Ken Rosenthal
Verified account
@Ken_Rosenthal
7m7 minutes ago
More
Name to watch with #Yankees: Miguel Andjar. Rival execs tell me and @ByRobertMurray NYY open to moving him. Would make sense as #Marlins ask for Realmuto; MIA wants established young MLB player as headliner. Also would line up with NYY pursuit of Machado. Torres could play SS.
People can shit on Andujar's defense, but his bat is for real, and will get better. If the Yankees are making him available, that means the Machado stuff is probably heating up.
If the Yankees walk away with Thor and Machado as part of all of this, the Yankees are going to be the trendy pick to win it all next year.
Well put Matt on Andujar. But if the Yanks get Thor and Machado, it won't be trendy. They are already considered a leading team for the WS next year. So adding those two won't make it trendy, but probably favorites. (maybe I nitpicked here)
Quote:
And this inflated value of Andujar is nuts. I dont get it.
Of course you don't get it, you think your Roy Hobbs at 3b is a budding superstar. Enjoy the BAbip regression.
McNeil will likely regress some, but he does have a consistent track record in the minors. Injuries had derailed his career until now and hopefully are behind him.
but he didn't exactly come out of nowhere.
And he's 27 before next season while Andujar is 24 (there are less than 3 years difference between them), it's not like people are calling him grandpa.
Quote:
McNeil wRC+ 137
Andujar wRC+ 128
League and park adjustments matter.
so, "much better", right?
does BABIP matter or NAH? or I suppose McNeil's just such a machine that he's going to continue putting out .360+?
Baghdad Z doing Baghdad Z things.
Much better is a matter of perspective I guess. Almost a 10% swing in OPS+/wRC+ land is the difference between a Jay Bruce and a Yoenis Cespedes so yeah... that can be significant. I also prefaced what I was saying with I totally get McNeil had a smaller sample. I also agree McNeils BABIP was a high... a guy that puts a lot of balls in play sometimes will have a higher BABIP but it bears watching. Andujar has signs of regression as well. I actually expect McNeil to hit more power in the majors than he showed after he fully adjusts but his OPS will come down some. Either way... Andujar wasnt a better hitter in their rookie seasons and his defense is atrocious. I see no reason why the Mets would want him.
It's basically done.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
So the Marlins get absolutely, positively shit on? lol No chance.
Quote:
Grain of salt
It's basically done.
Thor to Yankees.
Mets get JT, and Andujar
Marlins get Frazier and Ryder Green
Can't imagine this is accurate. Yankees win big here, Mets win too, and Marlins lose in a yuuuge way.
Agreed - if Andujar is getting dealt it's to the Marlins. He seems like the exact type of player they want and we all know they are more likely to rate assets from the NYY system well. Andujar + something to the Marlins, a SP to the Yankees, and Realmuto to the mets makes logical sense, which scares me as a met fan bc out of every potential asset in that deal (including Wheeler) I think Realmuto is the most overrated by a healthy margin.
Pre-Trade "I don't understand why the minor league stats of a 17 year old is not directly comparable to a 21 year old college player"
After "You know the number of errors Andujar has committed each season has gone down from 26 to 15 from when he was 19 years old to now; by the time he's McNeils age hes on pace to be have like 5 a year"
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
Quote:
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
Sonny Gray says hello ;) . Yankees would send Sonny to Flushing.
Quote:
After he was just shit on on this thread.
Pre-Trade "I don't understand why the minor league stats of a 17 year old is not directly comparable to a 21 year old college player"
After "You know the number of errors Andujar has committed each season has gone down from 26 to 15 from when he was 19 years old to now; by the time he's McNeils age hes on pace to be have like 5 a year"
I don't think anyone shit on Andujar. Some Mets fans simply said Andujar's bat is not "in a different league" from Jeff McNeil's.
Added, you trade him to the Yankees and he wins 20.
Quote:
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
unless you flip the Mets 2nd piece in the trade (Andujar or whoever it is) and Gimenez to Cleveland for Kluber (or someone else)
Only reason I can see the Mets trading Thor is because they either dont want to pay him and Degrom next year or they anticipate injury.
And the Yankees will trade Gray, perhaps in a Mets deal, or for prospects to recoup the farm a bit.
4 team trade!!!!!!
But seriously even getting Kluber won't change the math on JTR <<<< Thor. If they can get Kluber on a fair deal do it and keep Thor.
Wheeler (by proxy) for JTR makes some sense if they have some alternative SP pitching options lined up since Wheeler isn't under contract beyond next season and you will have to pay him close to FA prices anyway.
Quote:
In comment 14214475 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
But give up Thor then they are making a huge mistake. Their pitching depth is already incredibly thin and they would be sacrificing their team strength while praying that Wheeler and deGrom stay healthy. If they make this trade then they will lock themselves into 3rd-4th place in the division.
Yup. Don't think people realize how thin the Mets pitching is right now. The 5th starter without adding another SP would be... Oswalt. After him... Drew Gagnon. Yeah it's that thin.
Sonny Gray says hello ;) . Yankees would send Sonny to Flushing.
Perfect. Has stunk for a few seasons now, a FA after the season and his own GM noted he couldn't handle the market. Perfect Met.
Sonny Gray says hello ;) . Yankees would send Sonny to Flushing.
Perfect. Has stunk for a few seasons now, a FA after the season and his own GM noted he couldn't handle the market. Perfect Met.
Not quite perfect, he isn't repped by CAA.
Nothing about a team trying to "win now" trading Syndergaard would make sense short of Kris Bryant or Trout.
it is when discussing mediocre Sonny Gray who makes MORE than him.