about $2.5 to $3 mill per season. Not really sure he will be a target. He misses quite a few blocks and while he is much better than the previous occupants, they can probably do better.
Although I think a RT is more of a need than Brown.
but it is such an advantage to see this guy jump right in and not only learn the offense but make a huge difference. He also seems to get along with his teammates. The culture of this team is such a priority and he seems to fit the culture.
It would have to be more than they paid Omameh. I am just hoping DG gets it done before the end of the season.
As for a FA RT, I like Cam Fleming still. He filled in nicely for Tyron Smith in Dallas for a few weeks and did a nice job last year as a back up RT in NE. He signed a one year deal with Dallas this offseason for around $2,000,000. He should be an affordable RT candidate.
that would be great. He's young and healthy and while he needs to improve, he has helped tremendously. I would prefer that a contract be tied to incentives such as starting game day bonuses. Spotrac has him valued similar to Bulaga of GB whom is earning $6.7M/yr and Veldheer of Den whom is earning $7M/yr.
RE: My guess we'll want him back and so will a lot of other teams Â
I agree, and if we can upgrade the center and RT next to him he will be better.
It can't be understated how poor play from those 2 positions can drag down the one good lineman between the 2.
People also need to keep in mind that his first week from being picked up off waivers was his first game action since last year. He started the year suspended and never regained his starting position. He is an extremely large man and while he was in shape, there is a difference between being in game shape. On top of that, he had flew to NY and picked up the playbook, but couldn't stay at the facility due to our bye-week and the CBA preventing team contact with players (outside of those getting medical treatment). He then had to fly back to LA and then fly back to NY on the Sunday to report to the facility on Monday starting that same week.
His spot needs to be upgraded. Be glad to see him resigned. He’s serviceable and would be good depth but would like to see them spend their 2nd round pick again on a guard or guard/center.
I don't think it means we are desperate....we need dept...look around league...flowers and omameh are starting the left side for the jags. that's why they suck...cant have enough linemen
I don't think it means we are desperate....we need dept...look around league...flowers and omameh are starting the left side for the jags. that's why they suck...cant have enough linemen
I already pretty much stated what JonC said (without desperation). Brown is better than what was there, but he still misses too many blocks. However, I think C and RT are bigger needs, but I would not pass up on improving RG also. I would not mind re-signing him at a reasonable salary, because competent backups are needed.
His spot needs to be upgraded. Be glad to see him resigned. He’s serviceable and would be good depth but would like to see them spend their 2nd round pick again on a guard or guard/center.
Ideally they would upgrade him, but center and RT are both in much more urgent need of an upgrade. Not to mention pass rusher, safety, LB, QB etc.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back. A starting OL of: Solder-Hernandez-Paradis (other FA)-Brown-Rd 2 Pick could actually get the unit to average or better. And an OL where Brown is the "weak link" could be solid and significantly better than this years with Pulley or Wheeler the weak link.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
Look, we can't afford studs at every position on the o-line and still Â
be able to have good players on defense and top position players like Beckham and Barkley. Brown isn't the best guard in the league - not even close. But he'll be good enough at right guard if we can upgrade right tackle and center.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
I think you are foolish. Olineman are a hot commodity on the market right now. If you have one that will be serviceable, you try to keep him. The draft with Olineman can be a crap shoot. Hernandez is great, but I feel like we got lucky with that pick, seeing how boom or bust Olineman are these days.
I think with better talent on both sides of him, Brown can be better then he currently is. How bad Pulley and Wheeler are cannot be understated.
over his predecessors, and o-line performance has improved since he took over at RG. Yes they can improve over him, but with all the holes currently on this team (particularly on the o-line) I think they sign him to a cap friendly contract and concentrate on the other positions of need this off-season; of course this could change should a top flight RG be available when the Giants pick in a later round
The Giants are now a very attractive home for FA OL. Â
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
I think you are foolish. Olineman are a hot commodity on the market right now. If you have one that will be serviceable, you try to keep him. The draft with Olineman can be a crap shoot. Hernandez is great, but I feel like we got lucky with that pick, seeing how boom or bust Olineman are these days.
I think with better talent on both sides of him, Brown can be better then he currently is. How bad Pulley and Wheeler are cannot be understated.
Did even you read my post? I said to keep Brown and try and upgrade RT with a FA and RG with a draft pick. And, at worst, they have Halapio to upgrade from Pully (and he is an upgrade from Pulley). Geesh.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
But that leaves Pulley (or Halapio) at center. I think they're better off sticking with Brown at RG and upgrading both center and RT (one via draft, one via FA).
In other words, assuming they can only upgrade 2 spots this offseason, I'm looking at C and RT before RG.
His spot needs to be upgraded. Be glad to see him resigned. He’s serviceable and would be good depth but would like to see them spend their 2nd round pick again on a guard or guard/center.
He played well for the Rams last year, was suspended and lost his job to Austin Blythe who is playing like an all pro. Brown came in DURING the season and played well from day 1. No he’s not perfect, but he is young and a proven starter in this league. When some people say a lineman has “his ups and downs” they realize this happens to every lineman to ever play football? You get beat sometimes.
He came in and the line instantly improved. That wasn’t a coincidence. Don’t break the bank but lock up our RG spot!
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
But that leaves Pulley (or Halapio) at center. I think they're better off sticking with Brown at RG and upgrading both center and RT (one via draft, one via FA).
In other words, assuming they can only upgrade 2 spots this offseason, I'm looking at C and RT before RG.
Halapio coming back could push the need for a C down on the list.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
But that leaves Pulley (or Halapio) at center. I think they're better off sticking with Brown at RG and upgrading both center and RT (one via draft, one via FA).
In other words, assuming they can only upgrade 2 spots this offseason, I'm looking at C and RT before RG.
Sure. That would be another good way to do it. I get the feeling they like Halapio and think he might be ok as their center but that's more of a guess than anything solid. And it depends on who they think might be available in the draft (and as a FA).
He is a starting caliber player at guard. I'm asking this as if he could play tackle, you could lock him up and get a center in free agency. Depending on how the draft shakes out, he could play either tackle or guard.
I think he gets a contract similar to Omameh. I would have no problem with that.
RE: Does anybody think he can play right tackle? Â
He is a starting caliber player at guard. I'm asking this as if he could play tackle, you could lock him up and get a center in free agency. Depending on how the draft shakes out, he could play either tackle or guard.
I think he gets a contract similar to Omameh. I would have no problem with that.
I wouldn't do that. Our biggest problems were coming from the interior. The interior dlineman are getting more athletic because they are the shortest distance to the QB.
If anything we have proven that if we have a decent interior protection we can get by.
I'm sure he gets reps there though in case of injury.
Yes, he is the answer at RG. Probably not Pro Bowl ceiling, but definitely a solid starter at that position with 4 years under his belt.
Brian Winters, who is less impressive physically (much shorter arms and slower) is currently getting 6 mil per. This had been guaranteed, not guaranteed starting in 2019.
Spencer Long signed for approximately 6 million guaranteed for 2018, but 2019 is structured as half roster bonus and half non-guaranteed salary so the Jets can move on, if they desire, with no cap hit.
And yes you resign him. We need to replace so many people, he is a serviceable player. He gives us the a bility to upgrade other roster positions. You cannot have an all pro at every position.
If you don't resign JB (or an equal/better replacement), the position joins C and RT as one of those bigger problems. Doesn't mean you go crazy with paying him, but you can't be too cavalier about letting him go.
I'd sign him. As we know from experience, the known beats the unknown at that price point. Resigning him allows you to focus on upgrading C and RT. You need to go 7-8 deep on the OL, I'm much more comfortable with Halapio being penciled in as primary interior depth and Wheeler swing tackle than those two as starters.
The Giants will need to consider all FA RG options Â
If Brown is good value, then sign him if possible. I mean relative good value. Relative to other FA options. Sure, maybe they could seen a Norwell-type RG but that of course would be at Norwell-type dollars. Is it worth it? Nobody will know until the FA market kicks in.
A guess at a reasonable strategy - sign Brown and draft his potential replacement.
Center and RT are huge issues too.
They tried to sign Sullivan (Rams) at C but he stayed with the Rams. So it seems they didn't like going into 2018 with Halapio and Jones. Jones is gone and Halapio broke his leg after not impressing. The Giants are going to get a C this offseason. I cannot imagine they will go into next year with Pulley/Halapio as the only options at C.
RT, Wheeler works so hard, I love that, but he's a backup/swing kind of guy.
His spot needs to be upgraded. Be glad to see him resigned. He’s serviceable and would be good depth but would like to see them spend their 2nd round pick again on a guard or guard/center.
Ideally they would upgrade him, but center and RT are both in much more urgent need of an upgrade. Not to mention pass rusher, safety, LB, QB etc.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back. A starting OL of: Solder-Hernandez-Paradis (other FA)-Brown-Rd 2 Pick could actually get the unit to average or better. And an OL where Brown is the "weak link" could be solid and significantly better than this years with Pulley or Wheeler the weak link.
But I'd like to re-sign J.Brown. I don't want to have a repeat of the Fluker non-signing. You need guys who can create movement in the trenches. We have enough problems without creating more problems. Consistency is important too.
Fluker is remembered more fondly than accurately Â
was high on Halapio based on reports, he seemed to be doing okay and improving, but I think the team needs to sign or draft someone regardless. He broke his ankle and lower leg, it’s going to be awhile before he trusts his leg and who knows if he’ll get back to where he was.
RE: RE: More of the roster will change this Spring Â
Halapio May be a find. We dont kNow but they liked him enough to trade away Jones.
We don’t know if they think enough of Brown to outbid others.
Two or 3 spots will be asking a lot to fix.
Halapio was a marginal upgrade over Jones who was (at best) a replacement level player. They went with the slightly better player, saved a couple million, and got an extra draft pick at the same time.
That said, hopefully they at least bring in competition for Pulley/Halapio, even if it's a day 3 pick.
make more than $8M/year according to Overthecap. Zach Martin is the highest RG at $14M/year. I was surpised to see most RT and C are paid quite bit less, but 2019 FA class at both positions does not seem that promising. Brown will likely have options to get big contract elsewhere if Giants do not make decent offer.
Will and should overpay him, he is a great fallback option and great depth, this offensive line is clicking, they will only get better now, there is no need to break anything up now. They are playing great football, the Giants with Gettleman will add a center/guard and also add a tackle in this draft or free agency. But I do not see the Giants letting him go, that would be insane with the way this line is now playing.
I love it, people see garbage for so many years, then they see great play from the OLine and the first thing they want is to change things, fucking unreal.
Will and should overpay him, he is a great fallback option and great depth, this offensive line is clicking, they will only get better now, there is no need to break anything up now. They are playing great football, the Giants with Gettleman will add a center/guard and also add a tackle in this draft or free agency. But I do not see the Giants letting him go, that would be insane with the way this line is now playing.
I love it, people see garbage for so many years, then they see great play from the OLine and the first thing they want is to change things, fucking unreal.
serviceable. Some of you guys are like starving hobos ...
No one is.
You just feel the need to shit on the one player that actually helped straighten out this offensive line. God forbid we overpay a little bit to keep our jelling Oline in tact.
and is ascending into a solid starter, by all means try to keep him on a fair deal. Fluker was basically a known entity and they chose to pass. I think Brown is somewhere between decent starter and solid depth at the moment.
The key is not to rest on your laurels and lock yourself into a bad contract.
It's also harder to find a good RT, they need to factor in the available parts there as well under a finite salary cap.
by this notion, we would never want to upgrade any player if he was doing OK. Brown was the #72 overall pick in 2015 draft, has been injured and suspended with Rams, but played alright.
You're gonna tell me we can't upgrade this position?
and is ascending into a solid starter, by all means try to keep him on a fair deal. Fluker was basically a known entity and they chose to pass. I think Brown is somewhere between decent starter and solid depth at the moment.
The key is not to rest on your laurels and lock yourself into a bad contract.
It's also harder to find a good RT, they need to factor in the available parts there as well under a finite salary cap.
Fluker couldn't pass block to save his life.
John Jerry couldn't run block to save his life.
Both players I would consider backups.
Jamon is adequate in both areas, and at this point probably still learning the offense and knocking off the rust. Plus he is working with dog shit next to him at tackle and Center which brings down the rest of line.
He's good enough to give Eli a pocket to step into, Solder doesn't look as bad as everyone was making him out to be.
On the open market, O-linemen are making bank because it is very hard to develop them and find them in the draft. You don't let a young guy that more then likely could play even better if you gave him some help on either side walk away.
"god forbid we overpay to keep our OL in tact" you realize this is the exact thing we did with Omameh and it completely backfired right?
I'm not saying Brown won't be our RG in 2019. But to say we can't try to upgrade him, whether in the draft or FA with a significantly better player (and there will be available) is completely and utterly absurd.
Oh yippee our OL is showing signs of life...Should we not look to upgrade Wheeler either? He gets pushed back into the backfield nearly every down.
let's not pretend you are all of a sudden some scout that has been watching Brown his whole career. You, like the rest of us, had probably never heard of him before the Rams cut him. But because he is not absolutely horrendous, you want to keep him and claim that he's better than Fluker or this guy or this guy. Sure, he might be better than Fluker. But shouldn't our standards be a bit higher than "he's slightly better or the same as DJ Fluker"...jesus
by this notion, we would never want to upgrade any player if he was doing OK. Brown was the #72 overall pick in 2015 draft, has been injured and suspended with Rams, but played alright.
You're gonna tell me we can't upgrade this position?
He is good enough to keep around, and I'm sure he will look better with a blue chip center or RT next to him.
Wheeler and Pulley absolutely suck ass. You look to replace those two before you replace the only thing that works on the right side of the line.
Halapio is another flaming pile of dogshit that we were trying to make a starter, because there was no options in FA.
Can we upgrade from Brown, I wouldn't do it this season or even next year. Maybe in the near future. He is the only thing that works over there, and has been for maybe 5 years.
by this notion, we would never want to upgrade any player if he was doing OK. Brown was the #72 overall pick in 2015 draft, has been injured and suspended with Rams, but played alright.
You're gonna tell me we can't upgrade this position?
He is good enough to keep around, and I'm sure he will look better with a blue chip center or RT next to him.
OK, but a better player than Brown, would look even better than this with a blue chip center or RT next to him. Why must we just plant Brown in there at RG?
If there is a great RG prospect in round 2 or 3...and the Center or RT prospects are just "eh"...you're gonna tell me the Giants would pass on the RG because the need is better at RT or C? That's ridiculous.
and is ascending into a solid starter, by all means try to keep him on a fair deal. Fluker was basically a known entity and they chose to pass. I think Brown is somewhere between decent starter and solid depth at the moment.
The key is not to rest on your laurels and lock yourself into a bad contract.
It's also harder to find a good RT, they need to factor in the available parts there as well under a finite salary cap.
Omameh's contract wasn't a "bad contract". It sucks because they completely missed on the player, but it's not going to stop them from doing anything they want moving forward. So if they can ink him to a similar deal (3 yrs/$15M with $5M gtd), I think it's reasonable. $5M per would make him the 30th highest paid OG (18th highest paid RG), which is basically average. Maybe a little bit of an overpay, but he's also still only 25 with the potential for improvement (he was also a 3rd round pick which is fairly high for interior OL so there's talent).
Definitely harder to find a RT and there'd be more guesswork predicting how a 2nd tier RT might do in their scheme since there'd be some projection involved. Whereas with Brown they see him everyday at practice and should have a firm grasp of what he can/can't do.
Personally, I'd look to add a top C in FA, re-sign Brown, and draft a RT on day 2. Would probably look to add some OL depth on day 3 as well.
"god forbid we overpay to keep our OL in tact" you realize this is the exact thing we did with Omameh and it completely backfired right?
On the contrary, you are saying we should do exactly the same thing as we did last year. Let a current player walk, and try to refill that position with a supposed upgrade.
Omameh was supposed to be better then Jerry or Fluker. He was worse.
that if you try and upgrade Brown, then what are you doing at C and RT? Or are you hoping/trying to upgrade all 3 positions in one offseason?
Those advocating re-signing Brown don't see him as a pro-bowler (at least most of us), but see him as an adequate starter who would look even better if he was the weakest link on the line.
Wheeler and Pulley are also backup level players at this point. So even if you feel Brown is a bottom 1/3 of the NFL starting RG, its still much easier to find significant improvements at C/RT and the gap from Wheeler/Pulley to those players will be much larger than Brown to some theoretical player.
by this notion, we would never want to upgrade any player if he was doing OK. Brown was the #72 overall pick in 2015 draft, has been injured and suspended with Rams, but played alright.
You're gonna tell me we can't upgrade this position?
He is good enough to keep around, and I'm sure he will look better with a blue chip center or RT next to him.
OK, but a better player than Brown, would look even better than this with a blue chip center or RT next to him. Why must we just plant Brown in there at RG?
If there is a great RG prospect in round 2 or 3...and the Center or RT prospects are just "eh"...you're gonna tell me the Giants would pass on the RG because the need is better at RT or C? That's ridiculous.
Sure draft someone in a later round.
I just don't see the team drafting RT, C, Guard in a draft at this point. I know that is a ton of BBI's wet dreams.
We need a ton of defensive help to go along with some Oline talent.
3-5 for Brown some decent quaranteed money. The biggest positive is continuity. Important on the OL. They like Halapio. But if they can upgrade C,RG and RT in the draft or FA they will. There are holes in the secondary and LB that are just as important if not more so to fill first.
We have a few more games to see how he does he has the size
and he is only 25 . Were gonna have a top 5-7 pick
if Herbert doesn't declare then its LT or Edge rusher
If he does I think he is the pick .
Soldier is getting near the end and we need help with pass rusher . My guy would be Josh Allen .best LT available would
be fine as well plug him into the RT spot and add a Center.
was high on Halapio based on reports, he seemed to be doing okay and improving, but I think the team needs to sign or draft someone regardless. He broke his ankle and lower leg, it’s going to be awhile before he trusts his leg and who knows if he’ll get back to where he was.
I got high on Halapio once and let me tell you, that was some fucked up shit.
We have a few more games to see how he does he has the size
and he is only 25 . Were gonna have a top 5-7 pick
if Herbert doesn't declare then its LT or Edge rusher
If he does I think he is the pick .
Soldier is getting near the end and we need help with pass rusher . My guy would be Josh Allen .best LT available would
be fine as well plug him into the RT spot and add a Center.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we are already picking outside of the top 10. The only way we are picking between 5-7 is that we lose out those teams that are ahead of us win out. It's not happening.
Although I think a RT is more of a need than Brown.
He's part of the solution. Why mess up something that is working?
If they can pickup a center in the draft and a RT via draft or FA we are in great shape.
It would have to be more than they paid Omameh. I am just hoping DG gets it done before the end of the season.
As for a FA RT, I like Cam Fleming still. He filled in nicely for Tyron Smith in Dallas for a few weeks and did a nice job last year as a back up RT in NE. He signed a one year deal with Dallas this offseason for around $2,000,000. He should be an affordable RT candidate.
I agree, and if we can upgrade the center and RT next to him he will be better.
It can't be understated how poor play from those 2 positions can drag down the one good lineman between the 2.
It won't cost much, and RT is a bigger need.
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He's made a big difference.
I agree, and if we can upgrade the center and RT next to him he will be better.
It can't be understated how poor play from those 2 positions can drag down the one good lineman between the 2.
People also need to keep in mind that his first week from being picked up off waivers was his first game action since last year. He started the year suspended and never regained his starting position. He is an extremely large man and while he was in shape, there is a difference between being in game shape. On top of that, he had flew to NY and picked up the playbook, but couldn't stay at the facility due to our bye-week and the CBA preventing team contact with players (outside of those getting medical treatment). He then had to fly back to LA and then fly back to NY on the Sunday to report to the facility on Monday starting that same week.
I already pretty much stated what JonC said (without desperation). Brown is better than what was there, but he still misses too many blocks. However, I think C and RT are bigger needs, but I would not pass up on improving RG also. I would not mind re-signing him at a reasonable salary, because competent backups are needed.
Ideally they would upgrade him, but center and RT are both in much more urgent need of an upgrade. Not to mention pass rusher, safety, LB, QB etc.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back. A starting OL of: Solder-Hernandez-Paradis (other FA)-Brown-Rd 2 Pick could actually get the unit to average or better. And an OL where Brown is the "weak link" could be solid and significantly better than this years with Pulley or Wheeler the weak link.
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I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
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I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
I think you are foolish. Olineman are a hot commodity on the market right now. If you have one that will be serviceable, you try to keep him. The draft with Olineman can be a crap shoot. Hernandez is great, but I feel like we got lucky with that pick, seeing how boom or bust Olineman are these days.
I think with better talent on both sides of him, Brown can be better then he currently is. How bad Pulley and Wheeler are cannot be understated.
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In comment 14214273 giants#1 said:
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I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
I think you are foolish. Olineman are a hot commodity on the market right now. If you have one that will be serviceable, you try to keep him. The draft with Olineman can be a crap shoot. Hernandez is great, but I feel like we got lucky with that pick, seeing how boom or bust Olineman are these days.
I think with better talent on both sides of him, Brown can be better then he currently is. How bad Pulley and Wheeler are cannot be understated.
Did even you read my post? I said to keep Brown and try and upgrade RT with a FA and RG with a draft pick. And, at worst, they have Halapio to upgrade from Pully (and he is an upgrade from Pulley). Geesh.
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But let's not kid ourselves into thinking he's the long term answer at RG.
He's part of the solution. Why mess up something that is working?
If they can pickup a center in the draft and a RT via draft or FA we are in great shape.
+1 not to mention that you need "continuity" on the O-line, these guys need to know how to play as a unit.
+1 Good point, he makes everyone look better!
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I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
But that leaves Pulley (or Halapio) at center. I think they're better off sticking with Brown at RG and upgrading both center and RT (one via draft, one via FA).
In other words, assuming they can only upgrade 2 spots this offseason, I'm looking at C and RT before RG.
He played well for the Rams last year, was suspended and lost his job to Austin Blythe who is playing like an all pro. Brown came in DURING the season and played well from day 1. No he’s not perfect, but he is young and a proven starter in this league. When some people say a lineman has “his ups and downs” they realize this happens to every lineman to ever play football? You get beat sometimes.
He came in and the line instantly improved. That wasn’t a coincidence. Don’t break the bank but lock up our RG spot!
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In comment 14214273 giants#1 said:
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I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
But that leaves Pulley (or Halapio) at center. I think they're better off sticking with Brown at RG and upgrading both center and RT (one via draft, one via FA).
In other words, assuming they can only upgrade 2 spots this offseason, I'm looking at C and RT before RG.
Halapio coming back could push the need for a C down on the list.
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In comment 14214273 giants#1 said:
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I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
But that leaves Pulley (or Halapio) at center. I think they're better off sticking with Brown at RG and upgrading both center and RT (one via draft, one via FA).
In other words, assuming they can only upgrade 2 spots this offseason, I'm looking at C and RT before RG.
Sure. That would be another good way to do it. I get the feeling they like Halapio and think he might be ok as their center but that's more of a guess than anything solid. And it depends on who they think might be available in the draft (and as a FA).
He got a shot to start, and he wasn't very good. Solid depth player though that can play 2 positions.
We are more than likely going to move on from him after this season is my guess.
He got a shot to start, and he wasn't very good. Solid depth player though that can play 2 positions.
We are more than likely going to move on from him after this season is my guess.
This was his 1st season at center, so who knows how they feel. He was improving before the injury and he is big.
I think he gets a contract similar to Omameh. I would have no problem with that.
I think he gets a contract similar to Omameh. I would have no problem with that.
I wouldn't do that. Our biggest problems were coming from the interior. The interior dlineman are getting more athletic because they are the shortest distance to the QB.
If anything we have proven that if we have a decent interior protection we can get by.
I'm sure he gets reps there though in case of injury.
It won't cost much, and RT is a bigger need.
I think finding a quality C is more vital than RT.
Brian Winters, who is less impressive physically (much shorter arms and slower) is currently getting 6 mil per. This had been guaranteed, not guaranteed starting in 2019.
Spencer Long signed for approximately 6 million guaranteed for 2018, but 2019 is structured as half roster bonus and half non-guaranteed salary so the Jets can move on, if they desire, with no cap hit.
there is a huge demand for OL and not a big supply
whoever signs Brown is going to pay a lot of $$$
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shows how desperate we've become.
It won't cost much, and RT is a bigger need.
I think finding a quality C is more vital than RT.
Can't see that. Halapio might not have been great or maybe even good but I think he was better than Wheeler.
If you don't resign JB (or an equal/better replacement), the position joins C and RT as one of those bigger problems. Doesn't mean you go crazy with paying him, but you can't be too cavalier about letting him go.
A guess at a reasonable strategy - sign Brown and draft his potential replacement.
Center and RT are huge issues too.
They tried to sign Sullivan (Rams) at C but he stayed with the Rams. So it seems they didn't like going into 2018 with Halapio and Jones. Jones is gone and Halapio broke his leg after not impressing. The Giants are going to get a C this offseason. I cannot imagine they will go into next year with Pulley/Halapio as the only options at C.
RT, Wheeler works so hard, I love that, but he's a backup/swing kind of guy.
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His spot needs to be upgraded. Be glad to see him resigned. He’s serviceable and would be good depth but would like to see them spend their 2nd round pick again on a guard or guard/center.
Ideally they would upgrade him, but center and RT are both in much more urgent need of an upgrade. Not to mention pass rusher, safety, LB, QB etc.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back. A starting OL of: Solder-Hernandez-Paradis (other FA)-Brown-Rd 2 Pick could actually get the unit to average or better. And an OL where Brown is the "weak link" could be solid and significantly better than this years with Pulley or Wheeler the weak link.
+1
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shows how desperate we've become.
It won't cost much, and RT is a bigger need.
I think finding a quality C is more vital than RT.
It depends on how you're looking at it ... positionally, and in terms of supply and demand, RT is more vital and harder to find.
Not only is the 6 mil the market, but in some fashion the player is going to be guaranteed 6 that initial year.
You guys are crazy. We actually have a line right now that is functional, and you want to make a change just to change.
Looking at our line right now, we are getting by with terrible center and RT play.
Jamon plays adequately in both run and pass blocking. Upgrade whats around him, and I am positive he will play better.
We know what we have right now if you extend a big contract to someone else there is no guarantee it will be better.
We also can't upgrade center, RT, and guard all at the same time again next year.
That is what I said. $2.5 to $3 mill per year. I'm sure he'd like 3 years or better.
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is not the answer, nor was he ever going to be.
He got a shot to start, and he wasn't very good. Solid depth player though that can play 2 positions.
We are more than likely going to move on from him after this season is my guess.
This was his 1st season at center, so who knows how they feel. He was improving before the injury and he is big.
Multiple beats have said the team is still high on Halapio even after the injury.
I agree. Fluker's also missed 4 games this year after missing time last year. Can't help the team if you aren't on the field.
Omameh signed for 3 yrs/$15M. I think Brown's deal will be around there.
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quite possibly including RG, unless he agrees to a fair deal, which I highly doubt will approach $6M per.
Omameh signed for 3 yrs/$15M. I think Brown's deal will be around there.
Yuck.
Halapio May be a find. We dont kNow but they liked him enough to trade away Jones.
We don’t know if they think enough of Brown to outbid others.
Two or 3 spots will be asking a lot to fix.
Halapio May be a find. We dont kNow but they liked him enough to trade away Jones.
We don’t know if they think enough of Brown to outbid others.
Two or 3 spots will be asking a lot to fix.
Halapio was a marginal upgrade over Jones who was (at best) a replacement level player. They went with the slightly better player, saved a couple million, and got an extra draft pick at the same time.
That said, hopefully they at least bring in competition for Pulley/Halapio, even if it's a day 3 pick.
I love it, people see garbage for so many years, then they see great play from the OLine and the first thing they want is to change things, fucking unreal.
I love it, people see garbage for so many years, then they see great play from the OLine and the first thing they want is to change things, fucking unreal.
AMEN BROTHER!
No one is.
You just feel the need to shit on the one player that actually helped straighten out this offensive line. God forbid we overpay a little bit to keep our jelling Oline in tact.
The key is not to rest on your laurels and lock yourself into a bad contract.
It's also harder to find a good RT, they need to factor in the available parts there as well under a finite salary cap.
You're gonna tell me we can't upgrade this position?
The key is not to rest on your laurels and lock yourself into a bad contract.
It's also harder to find a good RT, they need to factor in the available parts there as well under a finite salary cap.
Fluker couldn't pass block to save his life.
John Jerry couldn't run block to save his life.
Both players I would consider backups.
Jamon is adequate in both areas, and at this point probably still learning the offense and knocking off the rust. Plus he is working with dog shit next to him at tackle and Center which brings down the rest of line.
He's good enough to give Eli a pocket to step into, Solder doesn't look as bad as everyone was making him out to be.
On the open market, O-linemen are making bank because it is very hard to develop them and find them in the draft. You don't let a young guy that more then likely could play even better if you gave him some help on either side walk away.
I'm not saying Brown won't be our RG in 2019. But to say we can't try to upgrade him, whether in the draft or FA with a significantly better player (and there will be available) is completely and utterly absurd.
Oh yippee our OL is showing signs of life...Should we not look to upgrade Wheeler either? He gets pushed back into the backfield nearly every down.
You're gonna tell me we can't upgrade this position?
He is good enough to keep around, and I'm sure he will look better with a blue chip center or RT next to him.
Wheeler and Pulley absolutely suck ass. You look to replace those two before you replace the only thing that works on the right side of the line.
Halapio is another flaming pile of dogshit that we were trying to make a starter, because there was no options in FA.
Can we upgrade from Brown, I wouldn't do it this season or even next year. Maybe in the near future. He is the only thing that works over there, and has been for maybe 5 years.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
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by this notion, we would never want to upgrade any player if he was doing OK. Brown was the #72 overall pick in 2015 draft, has been injured and suspended with Rams, but played alright.
You're gonna tell me we can't upgrade this position?
He is good enough to keep around, and I'm sure he will look better with a blue chip center or RT next to him.
OK, but a better player than Brown, would look even better than this with a blue chip center or RT next to him. Why must we just plant Brown in there at RG?
If there is a great RG prospect in round 2 or 3...and the Center or RT prospects are just "eh"...you're gonna tell me the Giants would pass on the RG because the need is better at RT or C? That's ridiculous.
The key is not to rest on your laurels and lock yourself into a bad contract.
It's also harder to find a good RT, they need to factor in the available parts there as well under a finite salary cap.
Omameh's contract wasn't a "bad contract". It sucks because they completely missed on the player, but it's not going to stop them from doing anything they want moving forward. So if they can ink him to a similar deal (3 yrs/$15M with $5M gtd), I think it's reasonable. $5M per would make him the 30th highest paid OG (18th highest paid RG), which is basically average. Maybe a little bit of an overpay, but he's also still only 25 with the potential for improvement (he was also a 3rd round pick which is fairly high for interior OL so there's talent).
Definitely harder to find a RT and there'd be more guesswork predicting how a 2nd tier RT might do in their scheme since there'd be some projection involved. Whereas with Brown they see him everyday at practice and should have a firm grasp of what he can/can't do.
Personally, I'd look to add a top C in FA, re-sign Brown, and draft a RT on day 2. Would probably look to add some OL depth on day 3 as well.
On the contrary, you are saying we should do exactly the same thing as we did last year. Let a current player walk, and try to refill that position with a supposed upgrade.
Omameh was supposed to be better then Jerry or Fluker. He was worse.
Why fix something that is working?
Those advocating re-signing Brown don't see him as a pro-bowler (at least most of us), but see him as an adequate starter who would look even better if he was the weakest link on the line.
Wheeler and Pulley are also backup level players at this point. So even if you feel Brown is a bottom 1/3 of the NFL starting RG, its still much easier to find significant improvements at C/RT and the gap from Wheeler/Pulley to those players will be much larger than Brown to some theoretical player.
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In comment 14214926 ryanmkeane said:
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by this notion, we would never want to upgrade any player if he was doing OK. Brown was the #72 overall pick in 2015 draft, has been injured and suspended with Rams, but played alright.
You're gonna tell me we can't upgrade this position?
He is good enough to keep around, and I'm sure he will look better with a blue chip center or RT next to him.
OK, but a better player than Brown, would look even better than this with a blue chip center or RT next to him. Why must we just plant Brown in there at RG?
If there is a great RG prospect in round 2 or 3...and the Center or RT prospects are just "eh"...you're gonna tell me the Giants would pass on the RG because the need is better at RT or C? That's ridiculous.
Sure draft someone in a later round.
I just don't see the team drafting RT, C, Guard in a draft at this point. I know that is a ton of BBI's wet dreams.
We need a ton of defensive help to go along with some Oline talent.
and he is only 25 . Were gonna have a top 5-7 pick
if Herbert doesn't declare then its LT or Edge rusher
If he does I think he is the pick .
Soldier is getting near the end and we need help with pass rusher . My guy would be Josh Allen .best LT available would
be fine as well plug him into the RT spot and add a Center.
I got high on Halapio once and let me tell you, that was some fucked up shit.
and he is only 25 . Were gonna have a top 5-7 pick
if Herbert doesn't declare then its LT or Edge rusher
If he does I think he is the pick .
Soldier is getting near the end and we need help with pass rusher . My guy would be Josh Allen .best LT available would
be fine as well plug him into the RT spot and add a Center.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we are already picking outside of the top 10. The only way we are picking between 5-7 is that we lose out those teams that are ahead of us win out. It's not happening.
"enough money to get a FART?"
dam .... I am getting old.
I can't ser us paying too much more. I expect wr will target a RT in free agency. Plus there are defensive needs.